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Clinton and Obama: Both better than GOP, neither the "end of the road"

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 02:34 AM
Original message
Clinton and Obama: Both better than GOP, neither the "end of the road"
The level of polarization at this stage of the primaries is probably predictable. And there's probably nothing we can do about it.

But, as simply an exercise for myself I have got to make posts pointing out what I think to be the truth (in my opinion.) I find myself "getting angry about the anger" or lashing out in response to someone else's slime of a post, and that doesn't help anything at all, now does it.

I don't understand how we lost sight of some simple observations:

Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama represent far better choices for America than John McCain or any GOP that ran for President in 2008. Now, I am a radical progressive. That's Progressive not in the Clinton's redefined moderate sense of the term; progressive in the radical, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Z magazine, democratic socialist, anti-corporate capitalism sense of the word.

Nevertheless - people who off-handedly say that there is no difference between the parties are simply wrong. There are not enough differences between the two parties. The entire political spectrum between "left" and "right" in America is far too narrow. This much is true. But the democratic party is not the party that seeks to attack women's rights, or minority equality. It is the party that seeks better health care and education solutions. It is not a party that is as excited about starting preemptive wars everywhere. Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are candidates who could lead this party and this country far, far better than any GOP candidate.

Can we please try to remember that? If Hillary Clinton gets the nomination, short of Superdelegates vetoing the will of ordinary people who participated in the process through their pledged delegates, I will vote for her without any reservation.

At the same time, neither Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama are the Messiah's of true radical progressivism. That doesn't mean they are bad choices for America this year. But let's just be truthful about it. Both of them are well connected to the business and political establishment. Both of them are. Both of them are very connected to corporations, which does not mean they will not better stand for the people against corporate abuses - but it does mean that the ultimate kind of extreme reformation we need in our institutional system is not going to suddenly happen in the next four year term.

Neither one of them are going to transform our international economic policy into one that is built around human rights and economic justice overnight. They are not that radical on trade, not that radical on globalization, and neither one of them represent dramatic shifts away from the basic neo-liberal economic model that has governed international relations for decades. I'm not bashing the candidates! I'm being honest about where our candidates are this year.

I believe either one of them would be in an excellent position to get the progressive ball rolling. This country wasn't turned into the privatized corporatocracy it is today overnight. It took several decades, really ramping up in the 1970s. It will take time to turn this country into a more community minded socially oriented society again. We need one of these two as President not because they are all the way at the ultimate ends I want to see, but because they are capable leaders both with a vision and both with different skills for how to get things done.

Now don't freak out - but I just have to say that its not secret that I have a preference of the two candidates, because I believe that Obama is exactly the leader we need to get this long, hard process started. We need the visionary, the internationalist -- frankly what we need to get this process started is the "community organizer" on a national scale. I don't believe he is all talk. I like his policy proposals a great deal. I read his detailed plans, and I'm sold. But most important to me is that I believe he has the charisma and the gravitas to draw people into his vision for America. Some people scoff at that, but at STAGE ONE of change America's course, you need a VISIONARY to inspire the people and help them get on board with the course of change.

Having said that, if Hillary Clinton is the nominee I'm not going to despair! She's a strong democrat and will have no problems getting her will done in Washington - Republicans beware! I would be proud to live in America with the first Woman President - long overdue. And her administration would absolutely get things done that would benefit real people in real need - I have no doubt about that!

Can we all just try to remember this a little bit?


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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. It is very reasonable position and it is unfortunate that more people here don't have your spirit
Edited on Tue Feb-19-08 03:02 AM by grantcart
an example www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4656624
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You ruined a perfectly sane op.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Bah. That's just insanity.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. your right is that better?
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Of Course Either Of Ours Would Be Better Than McCain
I think a lot of us have been very disappointed in many of our Congressional representatives that we were so elated to get in to office and just want to try our damnedest to be sure we are not disappointed by our choice for President. That said, I'll be happy to give either of ours (along with even more Dems in Congress) another chance.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. You've captured the truth of this political moment very well.
Great post.

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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. I am absolutely SICK of the demonization of Hillary on this board
Edited on Tue Feb-19-08 03:22 AM by Skittles
I've never been a huge fan but this over-idolization of Obama and extreme demonization of Hillary is absolutely DISGUSTING
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm sick of all of it.
There is extreme demonization of Hillary here.

There is over-idolization of Obama here.

There is also extreme demonization of Obama here.

All of it is really too much.
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Taylor Mason Powell Donating Member (681 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. WONDERFUL post
Couldn't agree more.
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