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Is it possible the Republicans took over the country in 2000?

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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:03 AM
Original message
Is it possible the Republicans took over the country in 2000?
Edited on Tue Feb-19-08 03:03 AM by LadyVT
Seriously! This obamatruth.org being registered to a right-wing Republican activist, the comments by the Republican strategists which fawn over Obama and then admit that because he's an unknown, McCain can beat him (ref Larry King Live tonight), the contributions he received from the Republican party last year... And now this thread on Karl Rove working to get Obama elected.

I mean.... think about it... Obama seems easy to flatter, IMHO. It seems far out, and I hope it is!!, but I more and more have the feeling that something funny is going on here.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. They've got the press, the voting machines and most likely lots
of so-called democrats in congress in their back pocket.

The first I ever heard of him was his senate win, his having lunch with Karl Rove and then the comment (while most of us were still in shock about Kerry conceding) that Bush won fair and square.

I have intensely disliked him since then. Hearing and seeing what an empty suit he is confirms my opinion of him. The Repukes might actually let him take office so they can blame the big mess they've made of things on the Democrats.



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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. yikes...
he actually said bush won fair and square? that's quite naive. I really didn't need to read that! ha.. . How he could sit through a meal watching Rove chew apart a piece of meat is something I cannot fathom either, ha, but that's just on grounds of nausea.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I don't think he was naive but I can't say what I think he was being
in order to remain somewhat civil.

He actually said it on the senate floor during the Boxer challenge.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Here is what Obama said in the US Senate on January 6, 2005
OBJECTION TO COUNTING OF OHIO ELECTORAL VOTES -- (Senate - January 06, 2005)

Mr. OBAMA. Mr. President, I did not anticipate speaking today, but the importance of this issue is enough for me to address this body.

During the election, I had the occasion of meeting a woman who had supported me in my campaign. She decided to come to shake my hand and take a photograph. She is a wonderful woman. She was not asking for anything. I was very grateful that she took time to come by. It was an unexceptional moment except for the fact that she was born in 1894. Her name is Marguerite Lewis, an African-American woman who had been born in Louisiana, born in the shadow of slavery, born at a time when lynchings were commonplace, born at a time when African Americans and women could not vote. Yet, over the course of decades she had participated in broadening our democracy and ensuring that, in fact, at some point, if not herself, then her children, her grandchildren, and her great-grandchildren would be in a position in which they could, too, call themselves citizens of the United States and make certain that this Government works not just on behalf of the mighty and the powerful but also on behalf of people like her.

So the fact that she voted and her vote was counted in this election was of supreme importance to her and it is the memory of talking to her and shaking her hand that causes me to rise on this occasion.

I am absolutely convinced that the President of the United States, George Bush, won this election. I also believe he got more votes in Ohio. As has already been said by some of the speakers in this body, this is not an issue in which we are challenging the outcome of the election. It is important for us to separate the issue of the election outcome with the election process.

I was not in this body 4 years ago, but what I observed as a voter and as a citizen of Illinois 4 years ago was troubling evidence of the fact that not every vote was being counted. It is unfortunate that 4 years later we continue to see circumstances in which people who believe they have the right to vote, who show up at the polls, still continue to confront the sort of problems that have been documented as taking place not just in Ohio but places all across the country.

I strongly urge that this Chamber, as well as the House of Representatives, take it upon itself once and for all to reform this system.

There is no reason, at a time when we have enormous battles taking place ideologically all across the globe, at a time when we try to make certain we encourage democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places throughout the world, that we have the legitimacy of our elections challenged--rightly or wrongly--by people who are not certain as to whether our processes are fair and just.

This is something we can fix. We have experts on both sides of the aisle who know how to fix it. What we have lacked is the political will.

I strongly urge that, in a circumstance in which too many voters have stood in long lines for hours, in which too many voters have cast votes on machines that jam or malfunction or suck the votes without a trace, in which too many voters try to register to vote only to discover that their names don't appear on the roles or that partisan political interests and those that serve them have worked hard to throw up every barrier to recognize them as lawful, in which too many voters will know that there are different elections for different parts of the country and that these differences turn shamefully on differences of wealth or of race, in which too many voters have to contend with State officials, servants of the public, who put partisan or personal political interests ahead of the public in administering our elections--in such circumstances, we have an obligation to fix the problem.

I have to add this is not a problem unique to this election, and it is not a partisan problem. Keep in mind, I come from Cook County, from Chicago, in which there is a long record of these kinds of problems taking place and disadvantaging Republicans as well as Democrats. So I ask that all of us rise up and use this occasion to amend this problem.


You can read the official transcript of this debate here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?r109:./temp/~r109HxiT2h

To read Senator Obama's speech just scroll down to page S53
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. we had voting machine problems here that were discovered at the last minute
and our election took longer to call as a result
scanners can still be programmed, of course
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RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Rove was on O'Reilly tonight calling him a plagarist
How exactly is that "helping to get him elected"?
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Now that McCain has emerged as the nominee, Repuke crossovers
will be higher volume and finish the job. It almost doesn't matter what anyone says now. Rove may just be getting an early start on the general.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sure...Let them have Hillary.....who thought she was inevitable anyways....
after all, Bill gave away the store back when he was in.

Why not do that some more?

I don't want to go back to the 90s. Sorry.

And Of course the Republicans don't want to run against an attractive Black Candidate (they wanted Colin Powell, but he said no), when they can have the Clintons to energize their base and pull all of what has been going on with Bill since 2000!
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. The reality is this...
If every Republican voted against Democratic candidates, we would never win elections. Candidates who can win handily, have to rely on at least some support from people who may not be completely on their side politically. Though I will say in this particular case it is a little weird to see the far right making recommendations. Usually the swingable votes on either side come from those closest to the middle on the spectrum.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. we sure haven't won many presidental elections in the past few decades...
Only Bill, right?
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Since 1960...
Republicans have had a president seated for 28 years, Democrats for 20. So...20 each before The Shrub.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. flip side of the coin...
a republican has been president since I was born, except for 12 years, and there was a major recession in the final year of the first Dem president (a great man nonetheless) and the 2nd Democrats second term was mostly ruined by the cigar play of Pres. Clinton. So for me being around 40, it sure seems like a Dem hasn't been in much. And the last one gave away too much to the GOP in the welfare, medical care, gays in the military, and NAFTA fights, among others.

But, wow, does he sure seem like the greatest president ever compared to the current one who's name could substitute for idiot, loser, moron, and warmonger. This guy is a joke, and dumb as a rock! I cannot even listen to him speak anymore, I used to be able to ignore his ignorance, but it's too much anymore, I have to turn the channel - he's painful.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. I had a professor once,
he's a sociologist, wrote a couple of famous books on who is really running the country, who told me in the late 80s it doesn't really matter who wins the general election... the same few dozen people control the country. It matters a little bit if its Dems or Reps (they have slightly different backers they earn money for and slightly different agendas), but not as much as we'd all like to believe. What they like best is someone they feel they can control or manipulate or persuade. I haven't thought about that in awhile, but it's resurfacing in my mind again, lately.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. Where's the link to
the thread on Karl Rove working to get Obama elected? Hadn't seen that one.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. I've been watching him, also, with his little white board, singing Obama's praises
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. I don't imagine that those who stole 2 elections in a row
are going to stop rigging elections now. Unless of course they've given up on rigging the vote and decided to rig the *entire* election, grooming candidates on both sides to do their bidding. That's my bet.

Can't wait to vote for those local Dems, though! The only thing I have any interest in is local politics anymore.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. Did you ever read Naomi Wolf's "The End Of America?"
Yes it's very possible the right wingers took over the country in 2000. And not necessarily just republican's. Why is it the Democrats in Congress have rolled over and ignored a multitude of crimes by those who may have taken over? We always hear "It can't happen here" but it can happen here. We here at DU are in the process of beating each other senseless, but too many fail to realize or accept the fact we may be beating each other for nothing.
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poppysgal Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Hope Floats
Edited on Tue Feb-19-08 04:20 AM by poppysgal
:bounce: In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
Carl Sandburg. We may be or may not be "beating each other up" for nothing but I will continue to bark as long as I have breathe. Also-amen to your remark concerning congress, I have wondered about that myself. Money-power- which is it?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Have you read the book?
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. 2006 suggests otherwise.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. How? What has really been done since then?
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