The Obama Mystery.. A MUST READ

[JKaiser]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/02/obamas_policy_mysteries_need_a.html




You would think that obama people would recognize the negatives to Obama to see how he will measure up in the general election.. OBama people just want to ignore his negatives and just concentrate on his positives.. He will go up against John McCain. Yeah sure, he is old as dirt but he has experience, he's a veteran, he will use scare tactics and people WILL buy them, They will call him a flip flopper on financing and other things they will just make up.. Independents like John McCain.. All McCain really needs is a VP that is youthful and conservative and he will win.. Aren't you all worried about this?? For right now.. Obama isn't really ahead in the polls against John McCain maybe Obama's 4 points ahead.. Just wait until they until the media stops covering Obama's speeches and switch the conversation to experience... I am sorry that I come across as an Obama Hater.. This is something to think about.. Please give it some thought..

[MethuenProgressive]

1. In a nutshell: Obama stands for everything, and stands for nothing.

What Obama would actually do as president remains a mystery in too many areas. Before he completes what increasingly looks like a march to the Democratic nomination, Obama needs to clarify more clearly what lies behind the beguiling banner marked "change."

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

37. please watch one of the twenty debates. they're very helpful.

just because the H campaign meme is to say he's all style and no substance doesn't have any relationship to actual truth.

[Nedsdag]

43. Funny.

What does Hillary stand for?

I'll tell you: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

53. we need a cynical pro war candidate who had 8 years to get universal health care but couldn't

:sarcasm:

[NashVegas]

2. The MSM Press Already Chose Its Candidate

And now that he has more delegates than anyone, they think it's time for a closer look?

Awesome!

[ProgressIn2008]

16. I know -- *now* they're concerned?

The corporate media pushed him out there, and people bought the brand. I'm not even worried about McCain in the general - I think it's a done deal. My questions involve the next 8 years. *Now* they're asking questions?

[opihimoimoi]

23. All part of the Pub Plot....knock off Hillary ...then....when the time is right...go McCain

[Occam Bandage]

25. I somehow doubt the Grand Republican Plot involved John McCain. If they couldn't

even get the right Republican nominated, I somehow doubt their ability to pick the right Democrat.

[Mz Pip]

28. It was all a super secret

reverse psychology plot. Only those with the secret decoder ring can decipher the real plot. The Republicans are that clever. They really are. They have us fooled coming and going. A vote for Obama is really a vote for Hillary which is really a vote for McCain who will drop out and then by divine intervention the Huckster will ride in and save the day! Yay! :crazy:

[Orsino]

40. The MSM chose Clinton as the main threat...

...and is now setting up Obama for a fall instead.

[Occam Bandage]

3. So you're directing us to a hit piece by a man who also thinks

1. The Surge has worked great and we're on the brink of victory:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/the_paradox_of_american_succes.html

2. al-Qaeda is on the brink of getting a nuclear bomb and killing everyone:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/10/al_qaedas_quest_for_the_bomb.html

3. The Democrats are political cowards who ought to get in line behind Bush:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/09/can_the_democrats_say_yes.html

4. Bush is a steadfast hero in the face of politically-minded Democratic weasels.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/02/bush_looks_as_successors_on_ir.html

[Hepburn]

4. Awesome research on who the OP is praising!

:applause:

Guess the Obama haters will get in bed with anyone...:puke:

[JKaiser]

5. He has some truth to this article though

[Occam Bandage]

6. The other hit piece you posted was from RCP, too, wasn't it? You sure do like RW pundits.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coexist]

7. funny - when I read negative posts now,

I always check to see which OP this is for them today - only one more to go!

[greguganus]

11. You think we could get him to post this in GD too? n/t

[billbuckhead]

12. George Will said the same thing when he came out "supporting" Obama to run

"What people see in him reveals more about them than about him. Some of his public utterances have the sponginess of Polonius's bromides for Laertes ("neither a borrower nor a lender be . . . to thine own self be true"). In 2005 the liberal Americans for Democratic Action and the AFL-CIO rated his voting record a perfect 100. The nonpartisan National Journal gave him an 82.5 liberalism rating, making him more liberal than Clinton (79.8). He dutifully decries "ideological" politics but just as dutifully conforms to most of liberalism's catechism, from "universal" health care, whatever that might mean, to combating global warming, whatever that might involve, and including the sacred injunction Thou Shalt Execrate Wal-Mart -- an obligatory genuflection to organized labor."
----------snip---------------
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/13/AR2006121301901.html>

The Obama movement loves to trumpet Republican praise, but rightwing criticism not so much. That's called hypocrisy.

[Yael]

9. Facts suck

:P

[helderheid]

10. You rock.

:yourock:

[SayitAintSo]

13. Good Article ....Never been to that Web site ... looks good n/t

[JKaiser]

14. I am just trying to point out that THERE are negatives to Obama too.. He is not perfect!

You would think that obama people would recognize the negatives to Obama to see how he will measure up in the general election.. OBama people just want to ignore his negatives and just concentrate on his positives.. He will go up against John McCain. Yeah sure, he is old as dirt but he has experience, he's a veteran, he will use scare tactics and people WILL buy them, They will call him a flip flopper on financing and other things they will just make up.. Independents like John McCain.. All McCain really needs is a VP that is youthful and conservative and he will win.. Aren't you all worried about this?? For right now.. Obama isn't really ahead in the polls against John McCain maybe Obama's 4 points ahead.. Just wait until they until the media stops covering Obama's speeches and switch the conversation to experience... I am sorry that I come across as an Obama Hater.. This is something to think about.. Please give it some thought..

[paulk]

17. Obama supporters seem to have an uncanny ability to ignore

anything that doesn't fit into their perception of who Obama is. And Obama "is" whoever they want him to be. And Obama has been smart enough to understand that.

This is a worrisome phenom for me. Obama is essentially selling himself as a "leader". It's probably good that he's unencumbered by a record - because if he is the nominee he's going to need to reinvent himself for the GE.

[tridim]

18. "Obama is essentially selling himself as a "leader""

Well yea, that's what you do when running for President.

Is this your first campaign?

[paulk]

20. Obama supporters also seem to specialize in insulting people

instead of actually engaging what was posted....

[tridim]

22. You found that post insulting? Wow.

The point is, all of the candidates are running to be a leader, that's what the President is supposed to do. Sorry if that's insulting (why, I haven't the foggiest), but it's the truth.

[paulk]

30. "is this your first campaign" ?

that's insulting, yes.

Look, the point is not that Obama is selling himself as a "leader". Of course that's part of what candidates do. What I'm saying is that's ALL he's selling himself as. He has no real record to campaign on. He understands this, and that's why he's running the campaign he is. He's been able to define himself to the satisfaction of the interest groups (voters who vote in primaries and caucuses) that are necessary to win the Democratic nomination. I don't think he'll have as easy a time with this approach in the general election, should he win that nomination. The general election is a different group of people and I hope he has a strategy for redefining himself, otherwise I'm afraid he will lose.

[JKaiser]

36. I agree with you completely!

[tridim]

39. BS, he has a very impressive progressive record and solid positions

Read about it on his website.. http://www.barackobama.com

Sorry to insult, but your original post screamed first time voter slash "expert". I'm glad to see that you finally admit that "leadership" is a good quality. IMO, it's the primary criteria.

That said, I don't see McCain as a leader at all. He defined himself as a maverick to deflect that exact criticism. It won't work.

[paulk]

46. I'm sorry, I don't find his record that impressive

I'm thinking that come the GE, I won't be alone in that. Obama will need the full backing of the media to pull this off. He could do it - the MSM seems hungry for another "Camelot". But, don't kid yourself - the media could turn on him in an instant.

Not everyone puts "leadership", especially of the sort sold by Obama, in the first tier of requirements for backing a candidate. For many experience and a solid record of achievement at the national level count for more than position papers, flowery speeches, and promises to "lead".

[tridim]

50. Then you didn't read the information on his website.

Most of his accomplishments happened in Illinois. He doesn't need to sell it, it sells itself.

You would know that if you didn't refuse to read about his history.

[paulk]

51. I read it.

Look - I don't put achievements at the state level in the same catagory as that at the federal.

He's done some good things, I don't dispute that. But, I haven't seen much from him as a Senator. I haven't seen this "leadership" I keep hearing about. I certainly haven't seen anything from him that puts him ahead of several of the others who were running, in that catagory.

Obama is a media creation. A savvy one, I'll grant him that, and perhaps in this day and age that's what it takes to get elected.

I'll support him if he's the nominee, but he leaves me cold. That is something a lot of the Obama faithful don't seem to understand. Not everyone is reacting to your candidate the same way you are, and, come the GE, I really feel he's going to face an uphill battle.

[tridim]

54. So Governers can't run for President?

Experience at the Federal level is overrated IMO, because it often goes hand-in-hand with corruption.

[paulk]

55. state legislators

I don't think being a state legislator prepares you for the White House

Governors have executive experience. That's more of a qualification, obviously. Not that it helped Bush much.

[stillcool]

15. It is kind of hard...

to presume to know what kind of President any of these candidates will make. I think his experience is more impressive than any of the others. He's been a teacher, an organizer, a civil rights attorney, an author, a legislator. He's overcome adversity to such a degree that he obviously knows how to win friends and influence others. It's all a gamble. I've been pretty fearful of any future in this country for a long time, and his candidacy does not ease that fear, but it does allow me to think of things that I've never thought possible. When I step back and look at what is going on, it's pretty amazing.

[LiberalFighter]

19. And McCain could easily get a young candidate that voters would for the first time

consider as the reason they vote for McCain. Cause they would be thinking if McCain dies we want his VP as Prez.

[JKaiser]

21. That could happen.. would be really scary

[tridim]

24. I'm guessing McCain will not be allowed to choose his running mate

He will be chosen by the Neocons.

[Egnever]

29. Vote for McCain he will die soon anyway!

Yup great slogan should go over well!

[CyberPieHole]

26. K&R and welcome to DU *waves hello* n/t

[JKaiser]

27. Hey!:)

[Straight Shooter]

31. Has anyone noticed how nice McCain is looking in images on magazine covers and such?

I've seen a dramatic change on web sites, particularly. Steely-eyed warrior, fierce determination, patriarchal but benevolent. They are reshaping McCain's image to the American people. Wait for Obama's image to become increasingly less attractive. It's all about what you see and what you perceive. The very thing that has rocketed Obama to the top will become his downfall, the starry-eyed innocent visage. "Yes we can" is going to increasingly sound like a very childish slogan (Bob the Builder) compared to what the GOP dreams up.

The extreme war rhetoric will be toned down, the environmental concerns will be increasingly addressed, McCain will work on strengthening his appeal to independents. The lines between McCain and obama will begin to blur. McCain also has the undeniable advantage of a biased media and a corrupt bush administration shaping events and perceptions. It will be one sucker punch after another.

[JKaiser]

33. agreed!! Thanks for your post!

[Straight Shooter]

44. I mention it because I saw his face on a magazine cover while waiting in the grocery line yesterday.

Even knowing what I know about PhotoShopping and the power of advertising, I was shocked at how good the picture looked.

Today I saw a photo of Cindy standing behind him. That is one good-looking lady and makes him look like a "manly man" when his photo is taken with her. The fact that she is somewhat deferential to him and doesn't make antagonizing statements will give her the image of being a blend of Nancy Reagan and Laura bush. She also knows the political games very well, and she knows what to say and when to say it.

We've been conned.

[surfermaw]

34. remember Ronald Reagan, how young they could make him look

[surfermaw]

32. Those are my thought exactly

I fear they will tear him to pieces, he needs a few years as V.P. and then he probably would becoem a great president. I like his wife thoughts, I watched her on Larry King, a few days ago. But experience he doesn't have.

[JKaiser]

35. Obama would make an excellent VP!

[candice]

38. JF Kennedy had 14 years in Congress to Obama's 1 (1 spent campaigning)

...why is Obama always off to the next job? While at his law firm (first job out of law school) he was campaigning for state leg. When he was there, he ran unsuccessfully for Congress and then won as a Senator (with no real opposition). Then he gets to Washington and after one year is bored (?) and starts running for President?

Where's the stick-to-it-ness that characterizes great Americans?

[NYCGirl]

42. Candice, Obama won his US Senate seat in 2004, not 2006. Your math is

lacking.

[OneBlueSky]

41. when push comes to shove, Americans are not going to vote for someone named . . .

Barack Hussein Obama -- at least not in enough numbers to elect him . . .

AND the Republicans have a) months to trash him and create fear in the electorate, and 2) near complete control of the vote tabulating process . . .

if I were a betting man, my money would be on President McCain taking office in 2009 . . . he's a horrific candidate, to be sure, but . . .

it's not who votes that counts -- it's who counts the votes . . .

[applegrove]

45. This is the time to vet our candidates. I hope there is a good fight

in these next weeks so we can see what we can see about the two Democratic Candidates.

[yellowcanine]

47. Fair enough. But given the choice is Obama/McCain or Clinton/McCain we should consider the

weaknesses/strengths vs McCain of both candidates, no? And from where I sit, Obama comes across as having the most upside potential and the least downside potential against McCain. Do you have evidence that suggests otherwise? That said, I think either Obama or Clinton can beat McCain IF they run an effective national campaign. So we also throw into the mix the question of who has demonstrated the ability to run the most effective national campaign? Can you really say it is Clinton over Obama by all these measures?

[quakerboy]

48. There are negatives

Yup. There are. Clinton and Obama both have trouble ahead, were they to win the primary.

You say "All McCain really needs is a VP that is youthful and conservative and he will win.. Aren't you all worried about this??"

Worried.. yes. I had rather hoped that the pubs would be dumb enough to throw McCain out with the bath water, and choose one of their other choices. They didn't. But you have not adressed what other options we have.

We can stay home, and just concede, i suppose. since McCain is inevetable?

Or, I assume that your post is more of a pro-Clinton bent. So, we should run Hillary vs McCain. We have exactly the same problem. In a War of Experience, McCain wins. Its that simple. McCains got everything Clinton does. Plus a a POW badge. So.. McCain grabs his proposed youthfull VP, and we have the same problem. Its like playing Pinochle. Trump wins, and unfortunantly in the game of pubic perception R is trump.

[Orangepeel]

49. I don't think that Obama will have an easy time with McCain. But I think he'd do better than Clinton

I have thought about it. Why would Clinton beat McCain on experience? If the election is about experience, we've lost. Fortunately, it doesn't have to be "been in Washingon a long time" vs. "been in Washington a longer time." It can be about "been in Washington a long time" and "a new direction". That's our best chance to win.

[Armstead]

52. There's a difference between scrutiny and demonization

Sure it makes sense to require specific answers from Obama on substantive issues.

But that's a long way from the shallow demionization that has been given to him.

And -- correct me if I'm wrong -- but wasn't David Ignatius one of the major cheerleaders for the War in Iraq?