It isn't the plagiarism. It's the exposing of "hope and change" as a fraud

[jackson_dem]

The real story is not plagiarism or whether Patrick copied Obama or vice versa. It is that we now know "hope and change", "the politics of hope" (sometimes labeled "a new kind of politics"), the "movement for change", "unity", a "different kind of politician" (sometimes found in the "uncommon leader" aisle)--the very hallmarks of Obama's campaign--are nothing more than David Axlerod marketing gimmicks used during campaigns. They mean nothing. Nothing. What has "hope and change" brought Massachussets? What has post-partisanship (something practiced by rethug governors Arnold, whose wife endorsed Obama, and Charlie Crist so that at least isn't exclusive to Axlerod clients) brought Massachusetts despite Patrick having a veto proof Democratic majority? What change has "the movement for change" brought in Massachussetts other than $11,000 worth of a new drapes in the governor's mansion paid by the taxpayers? Obama and Patrick aren't different kind of politicians. They are politicians. Period. There is nothing inherently wrong with that either. However, strip away all of these marketing gimmicks from Obama's Rove and what do you have left? Without these things Obama would have been lucky to make it out of Iowa, let alone win it. Wolfson is partly right. Obama's candidacy is premised on his rhetoric, as he noted, but also on the "hope" these slogans inspire in millions of people. If they are nothing more than gimmicks to win elections then there is nothing more to say than the F word. Fraud.

In case you missed it:

Patrick 06': "Politics of hope", "movement for change", "together we can", "uncommon leader" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x95061

Patrick 06': "hope and change", ending "politics as usual"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x94969

One of the common replies was to say "look at his 2004 (hyped) DNC speech." I did. Number of times the word "change" was used in it: once ("slight change in priorities") and even that wasn't used in the now infamous "hope and change" way. "Movement"? 0 times. What about "Washington"? Surely the man who works in Washington and loves to talk about changing Washington would have mentioned it. He said "Washington" twice. Again neither reference was in the now familiar way. ("John Kerry believes in an America where all Americans can afford the same health coverage our politicians in Washington have for themselves." "have no doubt that all across the country, from Florida to Oregon, from Washington to Maine, the people will rise up in November, and John Kerry will be sworn in as President, and John Edwards will be sworn in as Vice President"). "Hope" was featured prominently for obvious reasons (the title of the speech) but that needed to be mentioned out of fairness.

It is worth revisiting that speech, which the msm built up to launch a new political hulk who was on his way to losing his second Congressional primary in a row just a few months earlier. He delivered it extremely well but the actual content of the speech was nothing more than Democratic boilerplate. Great ideas but ideas every Democrat believes in. These are the ideas that caused us to become Democrats in the first place. He did not blaze any new ground in that speech. http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/barackobama2004dnc.htm

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Well thanks at least for admitting it's not plagiarism.

I'm sorry you're just finding out that Obama has, in fact, a campaign and speech writers.

[jackson_dem]

11. You didn't read the post

Obama's candidacy is premised on these slogans. If they are a fraud then...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. I did, I found it lacking on substance.

"Obama's candidacy is premised on these slogans. If they are a fraud then..."

Candidates have been running on hope and change since the beginning of democracy. That doesn't mean it's fraud. As someone who appears to be as interested in history as you, I'd think you'd know that.

[jackson_dem]

20. It isn't just "hope and change"

It is also the other slogans his candidacy is premised on.

You make a good point, though. Obama is running on some things politicians have been promising since 1800 (anyone who thinks "unity" will be created by Obama is deluding themselves). He is promising things he knows he can't deliver. That goes to the two issue raised by this, authenticity. An Obama strength before this week was being perceived as authentic, as "not a politician."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. You don't think Obama can deliver unity?

Then why is it independents and even some republicans are voting for Obama? Do you think Clinton can deliver unity better?

[jackson_dem]

56. When is the last time we had unity?

Never...even FDR had two-fifths of people voting against him. Obama knows this but says it anyway because it is part of the Axlerod script. How is "unity" working for Deval Patrick?

[tabatha]

2. Here is the record:

Obama started it in 2004 with his speech that he wrote himself for the 2004 convention.
Patrick borrowed some of Obama's ideas for 2006.
Obama has expanded his (and Patrick's) ideas for 2008.

They are a hope team, and discuss philosopy and ideas TOGETHER.

[Bluebear]

5. 'They are a hope team' - - um, what?

[Iris]

54. i guess that's opposed to the dismal team or the pessimist team. n/t

[jackson_dem]

9. "Hope" is a staple of Axlerod (remember Edwards long before that DNC speech?)

You are making my point for me. It is just gimmickry to win an election. There is nothing "transformative" in Obama and what he is offering.

Patrick is important because he doesn't just make speeches. He governs. "Hope and change" has failed miserably if you compare performance to the pie in the sky promises and lofty rhetoric. It is not surprising Obama lost Massachusetts badly despite having Kennedy, Kerry, and Patrick behind him. The people of Massachusetts had heard it all before and know it doesn't translate into a new way of successful governance.

[KittyWampus]

18. No, Hope is not a fucking gimmick. Maybe to YOU it is. And Obama CHOOSE Axelrod

because he was willing and able to approach a campaign from that angle.

[jackson_dem]

29. Why do all of Axlerod's high profile clients happen to use it?

Guess where Edwards' 2004 "hope is on the way" came from?

[Chisox08]

65. Bill Clinton used Hope

When Bill was running for President in 1992 he was the guy from Hope running on a platform of hope. So I guess as long as Clinton could use hope its good but if someone else use hope its a gimmick.

[jackson_dem]

66. Did Clinton run on slogans or performance and a record?

Everyone uses slogans. Not everyone runs on slogans.

[scheming daemons]

3. That's right, Clintons.... keep running on the "hope is futile" platform....

....that will win you the election.



Bill Clinton... in 1992... was the "man from Hope".


Today... the Clintons are running a campaign on "hope is foolish".


And they wonder why this thing has slipped away from them?

[jackson_dem]

12. It isn't just one slogan. Again, Obamites skip the actual post

Obama's candidacy is premised on several slogans, not just "hope and change". We now know they are all nothing more than campaign gimmicks. What is left with Obama then?

[griffi94]

23. give it up

they've drank the kool aid.....obama can do absolutely no wrong at least for now....think bushbots 2002....same tactics......obama = good.......anybody else = bad.....hope change...uniter not divider....yes we can....restore integrity to the whitehouse...yada yada yada.....

[ginnyinWI]

15. and whatever happened to "Don't Stop Thinking about Tomorrow?

Bill Clinton was all about change and hope and the promise of the future. Now that Obama is doing it, it's a "fairy tale".

[jackson_dem]

30. Clinton ran on a record and issues

Obamites are confusing slogans, which every politician uses, to a campaign premised completely on slogans. Regular politicians use slogans as a supplement to their candidacy. For Obama, Patrick, and Axlerod the slogans are the candidacy.

Here are three quick accomplishments Clinton ran on: his state being #1 in job growth, #4 in economic growth, and 12 balanced budgets in a row. He then contrasted that with the failure of Reagan-Bush trickle-down economics and the massive Reagan-Bush deficits. Clinton ran on substance, Obama is running on slogans.

[jackson_dem]

16. No one is anti-hope. Some people recognize slogans don't put food on the table

It is an absurdity that Obama and his followers think he has a monopoly on giving "hope" to people. This is another example of how unusually reliant his campaign is on slogans.

[Armstead]

4. Clinton 92 -- I come from a place called Hope.

I'm not sure why the concept of hope has become a bad thing now in some people's eyes.

[oasis]

24. Bill Clinton fulfilled the nation's hopes for prosperity. Obama's crossing his fingers

and doing a lot of wishful thinking.

[GarbagemanLB]

6. I love how the Clinton platform is based on trying to rip down such a great message. LOL. Speaks vol

umes about their campaign and supporters.

[rhett o rick]

68. Do you post anything other than Clinton bashing? nm

[Bill McBlueState]

7. "hope and change"

Actually, it's not surprising that more than one person is interested in hope and change. Given that, I'd expect to hear about these themes from a variety of politicians.

[yourguide]

8. Last throwes of the Hillbots

and again, thanks for admitting it's really not plagiarism

Oh so what about that ghostwriter that Hil refused to credit on it takes a village? she says she wrote the WHOLE thing herself...

[casus belli]

10. Hope and Change aren't new concepts to campaigning

The rub is whether you believe the candidate can deliver said hope and change.

[George_Bonanza]

14. Hillary's message: vote for the devil instead of the devil in angel wings

"He's just as bad as we are! See!" - Hillary's campaign

[bicentennial_baby]

17. Oooh, the drapes....Do you work for the Herald?

And why no mention of the Caddy, while you're at it?

And you apparently know little about our legislature. Them being Dems has little to do with whether or not Gov. Patrick can be successful. Politics in MA is a bloodsport, even when everyone's supposedly on the same side. Kinda like DU, actually.

[islandmkl]

19. it is sometimes up to one person to offer Hope:

'Human Dignity has gleamed only now and then and here and there, in lonely splendor, throughout the ages, a hope of the better men, never an achievement of the majority.' - James Thurber (1894 - 1961)

[THUNDER HANDS]

21. no, the point is hillary is out of gas and the only way she can win

is to punch a hole in Obama's tires and hopes he pulls close enough to her so she can carjack him.

[bluestateguy]

22. This from the woman who plants questioners at her town meetings

She has no credibility to make such an accusation.

[jackson_dem]

31. What does Hillary have to do with Obama/Patrick/Axlerod slogans being a fraud?

[jillan]

25. What I'm waiting to see is if Obama changes his speeches now

that we know those words are coming from his speech writer, not his heart.

[jackson_dem]

32. No way. Without these slogans what is there left with Obama?

This is why it is a big deal, especially if the msm does its job and stops looking just at the "Just Words" speeches and at the overall similarities, not of speeches, but of both campaigns. Take away the slogans and Obama would have been lucky to get out of Iowa, let alone win it. He has no choice but to continue with the same sloganeering campaign in the mold of William Henry Harrison.

[islandmkl]

26. just one more time:

"Appetite, with an opinion of attaining, is called hope; the same, without such opinion, despair." - Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679)

[madrchsod]

27. oh no.........not this again.....

[Raffi Ella]

33. Your post says it all jackson dem

If the shoe were on the other foot and it were Hillary who had done this you people would be screaming bloody murder.

The fact is Obama had to answer the SAME criticism Deval did and he USED THE SAME RETORT that Deval did.

And he was ABLE TO DO THAT because it is the SAME fucking CAMPAIGN!

There is no way around this people.Obama should be so fucking embarrassed but like most narcissistic egomaniacs he just laughs it off and tells his followers "the enemy is trying to take us down!!don't believe your lying eyes!!"



Bush does that too...

[keep_it_real]

34. A few lines does not make his whole campaign false

Only if you want it to be.

[cali]

35. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

I had no idea that Barack Obama is a politician who uses rhetoric to make his case.

You're doing a great job, jdem, in solidifying support for Obama here. Please, please keep it up. It's fun to watch.

[Raffi Ella]

38. ha,

I'd say he's doing a damn fine job of not letting Obama followers forget what a fake he is and not letting it drop just because you people swarm him and try to shout him down...


C'mon cali,just admit it,your Man is a fake.He's unqualified too.HILLARY 08! lol :)

[cali]

39. With very few exceptions

I view most politicians as opportunists with a wide streak of fake and that includes Hillary. I'm not trying to shout him down, and I surely don't think Obama is some pure savior. He's a pol- and he's not from Vermont. We actually elect real people here. Obama is no more a fake than Hillary. They're all in the image business. They all have to sell themselves. She's just done a rather poor job of it.

[Raffi Ella]

48. So

you'd like her better if she were as slick as you admit Obama is?If she had The Oprah behind her and SHE had the "Hope" Campaign - and had lifted it from one of HER friends -you'd be voting for her?

It's not about issues for you?you elect "real people" there...?so real that marketing has that kind of effect on you?Makes you vote one way or another?Obama has nothing in his background that says 'real' to me.

Hillary has been to hell and back and she's still here.It doesn't get any more real than that.


I was a Biden girl for his experience,knowledge and foreign policy expertise but if I can't have him Hillary is the next best thing.And she's a woman too.I feel incredibly lucky to be able to vote for her.She doesn't have to sell her self to me,her record speaks for itself.Unlike Obama's.


And yeah,you Obama supporters ARE trying to shout 'us' down.All of us.This has officially become Obama Underground. :(

[jackson_dem]

41. Notice Obamites are ignoring these threads on Obama's record?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4656600

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4585898

Do they even know he has a record? ;)

[KAZ]

43. No, there ignoring YOUR threads. n/t

[jackson_dem]

44. They ignore Obama's record. Not ONE Obamite can defend Obama's record

Which helps prove the OP's point. Obama is running on issues but slogans. His followers don't care about records and policies because that isn't what Axlerod/Obama is about.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. That's weird.

Considering you're the guy that keeps forgetting he's a U.S. senator.

[jackson_dem]

55. No, I am well aware of the agent of change passing a bill to rename a post office

[Recursion]

42. Seriously, can you explain what you mean?

I have no idea why his having a campaign team makes him "fake". Can you explain why you think it does? Before this, did you imagine I thought he wrote all his speeches himself?

[easy_b94]

36. I hope OBAMA Wins tonight

so we can get back to HOPE and CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[carlotta]

37. If elected, will Obama....

open an Office of Hope-based Initiatives?

[Raffi Ella]

50. lol

oh god,Obama reminds me so much of Bush.



Welcome to D.U. by the way. :)

[Recursion]

40. Right, because we all thought Obama didn't have a message team

Seriously, are you even reading what you're saying? It's ludicrous.

Of course Obama has a "message" team and communications team.

[shawmut]

45. Patrick worked very hard to defeat the anti-gay marriage bigots in MA

without him gay marriage would have likely been put to a vote this year. Thanks to Patrick it is now a dead issue.


but I guess you'd rather talk about drapes.

[Tom Rinaldo]

46. "He who lives by the Pen, dies by the Pen"

I do not take seriously the literal charges of plagerism against Obama in this case. They are over the top. However the issue you are raising threatens to undercut some of the rational behind Obama's candidacy. So much of the positive media buzz about Obama has centered on his dazzling oratory skills, about his uplifting and powerful speeches and his amazing way with words, that there is almost an inevitable reverse focus now on whether Obama can take full credit for those speeches, and for those words, as his own.

It's the other side of the coin. Obama has run his campaign less on his record of accomplishments (with the notable but ironic exception of his powerful 2002 speech against pending war with Iraq) than on his ability to inspire, and his ability to lead and unify America through his ability to inspire with words. Therefor the mechanics of how Obama inspires with words almost inevitably become newsworthy to a media that was mesmerized by them in the first place.

If Obama is following a pre-tested tried and true formular to win this election, that perhaps shows his good political judgment to go with a winning strategy, but it gives less reason to believe in his ability to deliver on the promises he is making if his ability to inspire leans heavily on someone else's script.

[jackson_dem]

58. Ding! Ding! This is what terrifies Obamites. It goes to the very heart of Obama's candidacy

They can try to shout dissenters down in the blogosphere but what will they do if the msm runs with this?

[nomorewhopper]

47. man you just don't quit do you?

honestly do you think you're changing anybody's mind here?

by the way i SAW him deliver his 2004 convention speech and i have to tell you, he BLEW THE FUCKING DOORS OFF THE FLEET CENTER. it was an incredible speech, and the entire crowd at the fleet center wsa on its feet

counting the number of times he used the word "change" in his dnc speech from 2004? wtf are you trying to prove? you've just been introduced to my ignore.

[jackson_dem]

59. Is there a "decaf" version of Kool Aid at the Hope Center?

[Straight Shooter]

62. His speech that "blew the fucking doors off" was boilerplate bubblegum rhetoric.

It's like going to a fancy restaurant and being oh so impressed because they put your serving of tofu with raspberry sauce on a $500 14K gold-lined fine china plate. It's the presentation that blew you away.

His speech has been analyzed and there was nothing earth-shattering in it. Do this: Find a transcript of his speech and tape-record yourself reading it out loud, with an even tone. See? No big deal. In fact, it will probably sound somewhat contrived.

[nomorewhopper]

64. i was AT the convention speech, and it was amazing

are you that biased that you can't even admit that he gave an amazing speech at the convention

those conventions are boring as hell, standing around ALL day and listening to speeches. nobody had even heard of him before. he had what, 19000 people giving him a standing ovation? best speech of the convention, by far.

don't try to tell me different. i'm sure that your "analyzers" who have reviewed the speech find nothing special about it, but its just sad that you can't call a spade a spade and tell the truth.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

49. bottomline!

[JackORoses]

51. bottom line: Hillary is a sore loser. This will become evident shortly.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. yes we will when all the numbers have been crunched

[JackORoses]

57. the numbers have been crunched. Hillary trails by over 130 pledged delegates.

She cannot make this margin up unless she wins TX, OH, and PA with 60% of the vote.

By 'number crunching' were you referring to MI and FL delegations and attempts to poach Obama's pledged delegates?
Because these are really the only chances Hillary has left, and they both involve cheating.

Have fun crunching that.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

61. the super delegates know how to deal with all the repulican crossover votes for Obama that won't ...

be there for the GE in November

[JackORoses]

67. the Superdelegates know a winner when they see one

Why would they bind themselves to the HMS Clinton as it capsizes?

[jackson_dem]

60. What does she have to do with Axlerod fooling the American people?

[HeraldSquare212]

63. C'mon, Mark Penn's been crafting a new message for Hillary every day.

Does that mean we should reject her message?

[Hippo_Tron]

69. Gimmicks or not, they get people out to vote that have not participated in the process before...

And I think that you discount how powerful that is. The only reason that we haven't been able to get a lot of progressive legislation passed is that a lot of people who would otherwise support it, don't vote. Congress isn't going to pay attention to people who don't vote.

When those people do vote, Congress will be forced to move to the left. It's really that simple.

Both Clinton and Obama are ultimately govern whichever way the wind blows. It's not about them, it's that politicians do what it takes to get re-elected. They wouldn't be politicians if they didn't. Obama is the one that might be able to make the wind blow in the direction that we want to see it go.