I'm not even sure I'll hit "POST" at the end of this.

[VolcanoJen]

I just have to talk to you guys, because, well, you're Democrats and Progressives, right?

Is anyone currently working for Obama in the primaries concerned about the influx of (former?) Republicans and Independents to the Obama Camp? Maybe it's just because I'm in the GOP Enclave of Cincinnati, but I'm running into some weird shit down here. For example, volunteers at the Obama HQ getting into arguments about John Kerry with me. And on our local listserv, the same thing is happening.

I'm still 100% for Obama, but I have to say I'm a little uncomfortable with it. It's a Democratic Primary, isn't it? Do some of these new Obama supporters even understand for a moment that Obama is a freaking LIBERAL? Or do they just think he's handsome and they like the way he talks?

I'm sure I'm going to get it from you Hillary supporters, and that's ok, really. But dammit... I'm frustrated. And honest.

Screw it.. I'm hitting "POST." What do you guys make of this?

[rug]

1. That's an honest observation. Those scumbags are trying to wreck the party.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. what he/she said^

[ElsewheresDaughter]

opps..I'm posting this down stream

[endarkenment]

2. I'm sure you did. nt.

[fenriswolf]

3. republicans are trying to become democrats, give them time to learn.

[VolcanoJen]

6. How much time?

I'm trying to be friendly, but they're pissing me off. I'm actually proud to be a Liberal and Progressive. These fuckers (sorry) are annoying.

[ClassWarrior]

8. Well said. This is an opportunity for us.

NGU.

[BlackVelvet04]

13. They're trying to skew the Democratic primaries. n/t

:eyes:

[ClassWarrior]

16. Some are. Does that mean we let those who aren't get away?

:eyes:

NGU.

[LostinVA]

46. I don't understand how people can be so blind

[Recursion]

63. Me neither, but I'm thinking of you when I say that

Go figure

[LostinVA]

93. I think you need a hug

:hug:

I will pray for you.

[HeraldSquare212]

58. Anecdotally we've heard of Reps voting for Obama and Reps voting for HRC, to skew the primaries

So, it's hard to see that it has an effect, or that it's organized. Some individuals seem to be game-playing on their own and maybe canceling each other out.

[Coexist]

15. that is what I encounter

my friends who are coming over have been told what their ideas are for so long, but they are now open to discussing taxes and the concept of helping the poor, not resenting them for "taking".

Since most of my friends/neighbors are Republicans, I am used to taking the long, slow road with them.

One of the things that impressed me about Senator Obama is that he takes liberal ideas and finds a way to make people who should be polar opposite agree with him (e.g. getting Republicans and Police officers to agree to videotape confessions).

Let them like and repect him first, then they will be more open to listening to his ideas.

anyway, my .02.

[blm]

76. Plus, MANY Dems even here buy any spin against Kerry - corpmedia made sure

to protect Bush then because, as Dan Rather has admitted, they NEEDED Bush to stay in office for the favorable rulings on media they were promised. Kerry had to stay a HUGE target. They also needed to divert attention from election fraud, so every other issue became magnified to explain Bush's 'win' like "VALUE VOTERS" and 'swifts' when they had no other proof from exit polls to back up the 'win' for Bush.

[ZombieHorde]

4. The Republican candidates are poor candidates.

Obama extended an olive branch, some Republicans are taking it.

[rug]

14. And they'll use that branch to smack Democrats in the head come November.

To plagiarize Edwards, you can't nice them.

[VolcanoJen]

29. Plagiarizer!!!!

:-)

Edwards was right. But for now, I guess I have to, I don't know, be nice to them??

[rug]

40. Honestly? I would confront them and ask exactly what they don't like about liberals.

The sincere ones will likely repeat false talking points they've heard for years. In truth liberal values speak more to the hearts of people than conservative values. They may realize the bullshit they've been believing for years and become strong allies.

Those that know liberalism and attack it will at least be revealed. They're not worth anything as allies so fuck 'em and bash 'em. Nicely, of course.

[Divernan]

81. We want to get their votes against McCain.

keep in mind that they don't like Bush, but they voted for him. Twice. So how do they rationalize this stupidity? By saying that there wasn't a good choice. I've heard this from former classmates who voted for Bush but couldn't defend his actions. "We didn't have ANY good choices in that election." They tell themselves that the Dem candidate would have been as bad or worse.

I suggest you allow them their self delusion because the important thing now is to get them to vote Dem. The psychology is that if they vote for a Dem in the primary, they will then have be inclined to vote similarly in the GE. One reason is that people do not like to see themselves as having prostituted their right to vote. I saw a comment on a Milwaukee paper's blog from a guy who voted for Obama because he wanted to stop Hillary. But he continued to say that if Obama was the candidate, he would take a look at what Obama had to say.

At this point, the only GOPers you're talking to are voting Obama, if I read your post right. Anyone here who tells you to fight with them or confront them about how great liberals are - that person is either a Clinton plant or a GOP plant.

So make nice and win them over. I just talked to a dental technician today. She doesn't like any of the candidates. Her problem with Obama. Her boyfriend told her that Obama refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I did NOT tell her she must be an idiot to believe that. I said, "That would be terrible, but I have a hard time believing it, because all the Senators say the Pledge of Allegiance at the beginning of each session. Tell you what - I'm going to research that and find out. I'll tell you when I'm back next week." And at that point, by being nice, I plan to get two more Pennsylvania votes for Obama.

[rug]

85. I've got 5 here against.

[HeraldSquare212]

5. I think it's good - ya gotta start somewhere.

[babylonsister]

7. They're new to the party and probably just uneducated. You're

in a great position to change that. What specifically are they arguing about, RE: Kerry? You can get boatloads of info here if you need to elevate some thinking.

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. what are the arguments about specifically?

[VolcanoJen]

18. That we'll never win if we admit we're liberals, mainly.

I try to remind them that, well, we're in a Democratic Primary fighting for the votes of hardcore Dems and Progressives that never, ever miss a primary. And that some of us (me especially) endured a lot of crap for upholding our Progressive Mantle during the heinous Bush years. You know, being anti-Bush long, long before it was "cool."

And I try to remind them that here in Ohio, we elected Sherrod Brown and Ted Strickland by huge margins in 2006, precisely because they were outspoken progressives who didn't shy away from "labels" and stuck to our principles.

I'm, like, really frustrated today. :-(

[Coexist]

23. that may refer to the 'taint' that the word liberal has to conservatives now

I am proud to call myself a liberal, but those recently converted may shy away from the label. If you ended up being a republican, you might distance yourself from a proud 'neocon' at first.

[TwilightGardener]

10. I wasn't a big Kerry fan, although I voted for him and think he's a smart guy.

I am a pretty conservative Dem, myself. My husband is a former Repub/now Indie, and we both support Obama, despite being further away on the spectrum from him. We think he's honest and has good judgment and common sense. Maybe that's also the draw for some of these more conservative folks.

on edit--what I'm trying to say is, there are a lot of Indies/Repubs that really didn't respect Kerry, but do seem to like Obama--why worry about it, or argue? Let them believe whatever they want, as long as they support our guy.

[lisa58]

11. Have you asked them why they are there?

The republican party is in shambles and some are certainly going to defect. If you were a repub and want something new, it won't be Clinton.

[maddezmom]

12. it could be worse

You could live in my GOP enclave where some people think Huckabee has a chance to win but will vote for McCain if they have to. I rarely have a conversation about Dems as I'm seen as the neighborhood uber lib with my mixed family and all.

Hugs to you and just keep doing what you can to get a Dem in the WH. :hi:

[Orangepeel]

19. A lot of people support the person they like and rationalize the reasons n/t

[sampsonblk]

20. I never heard Obama say he's a liberal

Obama is presenting a blank slate for the voters. Great rhetoric, but not a lot of detaqils about his beliefs and intentions. A lot of folks are going to be disappointed no matter how he governs.

I amn preparing myself for the letdown ahead of time.

[meow mix]

21. this is why red states are going to flip.. and give us a mandate

so its a good thing.

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. If the contest for the Democratic nomination for President

was being decided by the votes of Democrats, Hillary Clinton would be solidly ahead right now. I am not totally comfortable with what you are desribing. If Connecticut had open primaries Joe Lieberman would have defeated Ned Lamont in the Democratic primary in 2006. Lieberman lost that primary but ran as an "Independent Democrat" in the General Election, and Republicans swung him the victory by abandoning their own candidate to do so.

[Tatiana]

24. I have encountered several Republicans wanting to volunteer for Obama.

Truth be told, the people who are really swooning over Obama and his speeches are the Republicans. I think they genuinely *are* mesmerized by such a charismatic leader, much like they love Ray-gun.

You are not going to change their thinking about Democrats like Gore or Kerry. And that's fine. Just redirect the conversation towards working on getting out the vote for Obama. Some of these people have very ingrained beliefs and they aren't going to let go of them overnight. They know Obama is a liberal, but they ignore it because they like him.

Again, that's fine. Once these Republicans see what it's like to function under a government with a sound economy, a strong dollar, good international relations, health care for all Americans, and a strong safety net, they won't mind having a liberal in the WH.

[griffi94]

36. they swooned over reagan

and then bush....and now obama...sorry that's a redflag....

[Cosmocat]

80. Nail and hammer ...

One thing that is a soft differentiation of Ds and Rs is that Ds tend to vote with their heads, Rs tend to vote with their heart/gut ... They really are kind of "romantic" about their leaders ...

Gore and Kerry's biggest problem, honestly, was simply that they were geeks ...

WE knew they were smart and decent men, and that the current resident at 1600 Pa was a clueless dipskit ...

But, that just isn't how they operate ... It was like High school, where Kerry and Gore were geeks and dipskit was the guy who picked on them ...

Obama has a messaging and style that at worst placates them ... MOST Rs KNOW their candidates and platform are undefensibly horrid ... But, they, again are too petulent to admit it, and even worse only dig their heels in more when they are confronted on it ... It doesn't matter one bit how much reality you dish, they just dig their heels in ...

Obama knows this ... He is VERY careful to not say those things that make Rs dig their heels in ...

[Tatiana]

109. Exactly. And one of his strengths that he mentions also is changing the way people THINK.

People completely miss this important aspect of his candidacy.

We don't change minds by yelling at folks. It only makes them become more entrenched. We can even see this principle at play right here in GD-P.

And, sad as it is, even logic doesn't really work with most Republicans once they've formed their opinions (which they have about good men like Carter and Gore and Kerry). So it's a waste of time to try to argue with them. These Republicans have already become entrenched about someone like Hillary Clinton and nothing is going to change their minds.

Obama understands this. He understands that a good 35% of the electorate are "romantic" fundies and in order for them to even give a Democrat a shot, they've got to "fall in love." So I understand why he plays that aspect up a bit. After they "fall in love" they'll find themselves "falling in line" with policies that maybe they didn't think they would agree with because they like him so damn much.

And I'm cool with that. I'm more concerned with getting our agenda implemented rather than the purity of the votes that get us there. When these Republicans start to see the positive real-life impact of progressive ideals in their own lives, then they will start to THINK. But we need someone to open that door to dialogue first, which is what Obama does.

[NastyRiffraff]

25. This is what comes from open primaries

I've never understood why a Democratic primary allowed Republicans and Independents vote in them. It's a DEMOCRATIC primary; let them register as Democrats if they want to vote in one of our primaries.

[VolcanoJen]

43. "Democrat for a Day"

It does make me a little nervous. In Ohio, you actually have to fill out a pretty straightforward form explaining to you in no uncertain terms that you are joining the Democratic Party if you show up and want to switch registrations that day.

Maybe they'll be annoyed by all the mailers they're going to get? :-) I don't know.... but which states that have already voted hold closed primaries, and what is the deadline for switching parties?

[Bread and Circus]

26. Guess what...

Republicans are people too.

There are just as many liberal assholes as there are conservative assholes.

The best thing you can do is talk to people in a non-judgemental way and see what they really think and really believe in.

Some people are so far left they have rightward libertarian tendencies and vice versa.

People who have a strong respect for "We the People" might like Obama no matter their personal positions on the "laundry list" of policy statements.

[VolcanoJen]

42. Boo!

No, you're right. I'm just playin'.

It's just, you know, having joined DU on Day One, Bush Inauguration Day 2001, maybe I'm just conditioned to fight 'em rather than engage 'em?

[LiberalAndProud]

27. Reagan Democrats

What was it that Reagan did to the Democrats?
In simplest terms, he beat them, in 1966, defeating California Gov. Pat Brown — and then he beat them again (the legendary boss of California's state Assembly, Jess Unruh, in 1970), and again (a sitting president, Jimmy Carter, in 1980) and again (former Vice President Walter Mondale in 1984). He proved that genial conservatism can win by huge margins.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5151912/

[QC]

32. "He proved that genial conservatism can win by huge margins."

His enthusiastic racebaiting had a lot to do with it, too.

[crispini]

28. I do wonder about all of the Republicans I know who have said they're voting in the D party

because there's no action on their side of the ticket.

[Mz Pip]

30. I suspect there is

some 'strategic' voting going on. Since McCain has all but sown up the nomination there are probably a few Republicans out there who want to help us pick our candidate. But I think it's happening for both Obama and Hillary. There are Republicans who think Hillary will the our weakest candidate. THere are Republicans who think that Obama will be the weakest.

There may actually be some Republicans who are just fed up with their own party and are checking out the Democrats. ANd a lot of Republicans can not stand McCain.

I suppose it's sort of like some of the Democrats who say if _________ is the candidate, I'm voting for McCain. I have the same :wtf: response. McCain is a conservative and will not do a damn thing to advance the progressive agenda. GO figure.

THere seems to be a lot of pouting and stomping of feet on both sides. How that will all dust out in the end is anybody's guess.

Mz Pip

[CK_John]

31. Don't worry they well be gone after the primary, back to McCain. n/t

[griffi94]

33. this is the thing that bothers me

about the overwhelming new democratic support that obama is enjoying....imo these are the same people that elected bush twice...now that they've fucked their own party up beyond all recognition...they simply switch sides and fuck the democrats up for a while......sorry i don't buy into 11th hour conversions....i've posted before that some of the obama supporters use the same tactics and language as many of bushes supporters did.....that alone makes me take a second look.....i still think after obama knocks off hillary in the primaries.....a fair number of his new found supporters will wind up voting for mccain in nov. jmho

[Labors of Hercules]

34. Are these people recognizing that they were wrong?

It may not be that they consider themselves liberal, but if they are simply admitting that they were wrong about Bush and the Republicans, and like SOMETHING about Obama, it's a better place to start the conversation than any other.

Becoming progressive is not a hard sell. Pretty soon, if someone is even remotely logical, it just makes sense.

[Maribelle]

I am a firm believer in the fact that Democrats should select the Democratic Nominee.

I feel bad for the sincere Obama supporters, such as yourself, that have to wade through these new faux Obama supporters. And even more, I truly feel bad for the Democratic Party.

It was widely talked about in New Hampshire before the primary, that there was a huge push for republicans to re-register as independents and vote for Obama to stop Hillary. That is why the polls were highly in favor of Obama up to election eve - - and all the MSMers were screaming that Hillary was done, finished.

But then a funny thing happened on the way to the polling stations - - Romney was closing in on McCain. And more than wanting to stop Hillary, the frauds wanted to stop Romney - - thus these faux independents abandoned Obama for McCain, and through cans of hot oil in the mouths and eyes of MSM.

The McCain issue is over, and open primary states will now feel the full thrust of the faux independents.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

35. that's why we have superdelegates their job is to deal with rethuglican crossover primary voters

these rethuglican voters that have no intention to vote "Dem" in November in the GE

they know they are just trying to muddy the water

[VolcanoJen]

50. Now, *that's* interesting.

And I'd have to say that after my experiences today, I think I might be open to that argument. At least a little more than I was before.

[NanBo]

37. As a Cubs fan

I think it's partially a matter of wanting to be on the winner's bandwagon. The few times the Cubs play like winners, suddenly everyone is a Cubs fan. Otherwise, not so much :)

I think a lot of people don't like to be on a losing side--in anything. So they see the Obama momentum, they know the Repubs have nothin' and they want to join. But they're not very good at it--they don't know the players, the history, the stats, so to speak. They just want to be WINNERS and wave the winning flag.

Obviously that's not all of them, but I think it accounts for some of them. Is that good for our side? Hard to say, depends if the momentum carries into the GE.

[book_worm]

38. No. We have open primaries and independents can vote. They have every other year

too. I'm glad that Obama shows strength among indies. I'm glad that he beats McCain in several states where Hillary loses to him.

[Jackpine Radical]

39. Well, I have several more-or-less scattered thoughts, and

this seems like as good a place as any to start trying to pull them together.

I know at east one right-winger who's voting for Obama in the primary & maybe in the General. He's doing it because, first, he's really pissed at the Republicans and second, he hates Hillary. He put in so mch time at Limbaugh's Kool-Aid stand that there are some things he'll never get over.

Then there's the "Rodney King" faction. You know--the "Can't we all just get along?" crowd. They think O is promising them some kind of Era of Good Feeling. They got no clue as to whether BO is liberal, centrist, or Caspar Milquetoast.

And then there's the "Change" faction. They want change. They want something to happen. Not that they have a clue as to what that change should be. They just know they want change, and Barack is the only guy advertising it. Hill promises to return us to the Clinton era. McCain is Bush Lite. The Change freaks just don't want anything to do with the two competing dynasties. They want...well, you know.

Then there's the ones who just plain got no clue. Barack talks nice. He looks nice. They want to have a beer with him. Maybe he'll invite them over to watch the Superbowl. I mean, shit, it was people like this who put Bush into office. Twice. (Yeah, it was stolen, but the mass media played these dimbulbs like a fiddle & got Shrubby within stealing distance.)

Personally, I want a Democratic President. If it's Obama, or if it's Hill, on one level I really don't care why the Illiterati vote for our candidate, as long as they do.

And of course on the other hand, I wish to hell we had an informed, intelligent and passionate electorate, becuase ultimately that is the only way a democracy can function in the long run.

[VolcanoJen]

53. Great post, Jackpine.

That's pretty much what I'm seeing on the ground. You actually nailed it. Perfectly.

I'm concerned that many of the new Obama folk don't really appreciate that, well, he's pretty liberal. That he actually stands for the kinds of things that (dare I say it!) John Kerry did. And I'm concerned they're going to have serious buyer's remorse when the Republicans and the 527's remind them of that come the General Election.

All in all, I think it's a good development. But being a longtime activist, it's weird to run into people who are not so like-minded supporting the candidate I've chosen to back. And I can't help but think that you wouldn't get so much of this over on the Clinton side.

That's why I came here to vent... had to be among my own peeps and let them reassure me. :-)

[Bluerthanblue]

41. Many DU'er's talk shit about John Kerry and Ted Kennedy- and all

sorts of other fine Democrats-

Why would you expect any different? Look around DU VolcanoJen

What ever you are seeing is no different than here. I don't condone it- but it isn't new, nor something only "new converts" do.


peace~

[mrreowwr_kittty]

44. Here's my perspective

I'm an Obama supporter too and we had some volunteers who have some pretty conservative worldviews. It's a little disconcerting to me as well, accustomed as I am to being around progressive political junkies when I'm engaged in activism. It's really made me realize just how entrenched right wing memes are. I rode to NV to volunteer with a young woman who had been apolitical prior to Obama. She was smart, well-educated, and from what I could tell a compassionate person in general. However, as the conversation turned to various issues, particularly the economy, I found myself having to correct some erroneous ideas she had. She had bought into the welfare queen myth, the lies about "socialized" medicine in other countries, and called the estate tax the "Death Tax".

So while I completely understand, and share, your concern, I'm starting to view the influx of uninformed people (that's what they really are - most Republicans are just Democrats who don't know they are yet) into the Obama campaign in a positive way. They may not know much about politics or the issues, but they know that Bush has been a disaster.

This is an opportunity for progressives to have a mass audience of potential converts the likes of which we've never seen. We have a choice here. Some will choose to deride and disparage these new faces, calling them kids and "cultists". I choose to welcome them and do whatever I can to help enlighten them.

Just my $.02

[stillcool]

73. I think it's hard for all of us...

where do you start when trying to inform somebody of what the hell has been going on under their noses for their entire life? It's not easy to come up with two sentence answers that do much of anything to kick the can down the road. Patience and tolerance, while trying to impart information in not the easiest thing. And it's not easy learning this stuff either. I understand your frustration, and can only say that you are doing a wonderful thing...regardless of what the outcome is.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

84. It is frustrating but it's been one of the most rewarding experiences of the campaign

When you're volunteering with someone you really get to have in-depth conversations with them. There are some really nice people out there who have been fed some really wrong ideas their whole lives.

[stillcool]

97. and I'm one of them!!

it took me years of reading earnestly to come to some kind of understanding about the 'real' world out there. I think what I like most about Obama is the sense that he understands the different realities of different people's lives. We are all the same, but our little portions of the world are very different,

[WilliamPitt]

45. Getting the 'Reagan Democrats' back into the fold

will help us win the next 5-10 elections we need to win in order to undo a lot of damage. That's a good thing.

Demands for purity within the ranks are what you hear within fundy GOP circles right now. Not helping them at all.

Win first.

[Bluerthanblue]

49. nice perspective and

good advice.

:hi:

peace~

[VolcanoJen]

59. OK, Will.

I guess I can stomach it for two more weeks, here in Battleground Ohio.

:hug:

[WilliamPitt]

61. Yoiks

How's the chow there in the Alamo?

;)

[VolcanoJen]

67. Cincy Chili kicks Tex-Mex Ass!

[Renew Deal]

47. I've worked for Obama in two states

And haven't experienced this. I've seen it before with closet republicans and disruptors. You should probably report it to the campaign. They could be right wing troublemakers.

[Neecy]

55. same here

And I haven't had anything close to this, either. As far as I know, I've worked with all Democrats.

My take - we've just lived through 8 years of the most partisan president in our history. Anyone who isn't a political junkie is probably sick and tired of it - and the Clinton years were highly partisan as well, although the GOP is primarily responsible for that.

People just want a president who won't represent a fraction of the country. 16 years of this have exhausted people. Obama doesn't demonize Republicans and promises to be a *true* uniter. It's just the right message at the right time. People are sick of the crap while the country falls further and further in the hole. Ideology is less important than fixing our problems.

[VolcanoJen]

65. Bleachers and Neecy...

... is it just a Cincinnati thing, then? I did forward a rather local listserve thread bashing Dukakis, Tsongas and Kerry to our local organizers... what's really shameful is that Katina Tsongas is here in Cincinnati working with us!

What two states, and what was the demographic makeup? I'm in a very, very Red area down here, sadly.

[Neecy]

71. Mine is split

I worked in Kansas (vy. red) and Kansas City, MO (vy. blue - and we helped give MO to Obama). Most of the Kansas voluteers I worked with came from KU, which is a fairly liberal campus. The only non-Democrat I worked with in Kansas was an Independent and her support for Obama was 100% based on the war.

Everyone in KCMO was a Democrat. Working there was a blast.

[VolcanoJen]

79. GREAT job for Obama in Missouri!

I predict a photo-finish in Ohio, honestly. Just like yours.

[Neecy]

86. I honestly cried when he finally won it

I'd pounded the pavement for months in MO for Kerry and on election night I went to a big Democratic Party victory celebration in Midtown. When they called MO for Bush I wanted to vomit. Everyone there was just sick, disgusted, in shock that we'd get four more years of Bush. And as hard as we'd worked we couldn't stop it.

It's nice to finally have our efforts pay off...when MO was called for Hillary I started having flashbacks :) Nice photo finish, but still too close for my liking. You may not like some of your fellow workers, but if they can help get your urban vote out you'll win this thing, too. I'll be rootin' for ya...

[VolcanoJen]

87. I thought it was so cool, that when they called MO for Clinton....

... that Claire McCaskill kept urging people to wait it out, that the same thing happened to her on Election Night 2006!

I'm right there with you, Neecy... I was heartbroken when they held back the Ohio results just so we could be the ones to put Bush over the top in 2004. I cried for at least three days. :cry:

[no name no slogan]

78. Bashing DUKAKIS?

Sweet Jeebus, that's almost like bashing Adlai Stevenson. That's twenty years ago, you'd think they would've moved on by now? :shrug:

[VolcanoJen]

104. Isn't it goofy?

If I hear "Dukakis in the tank" one more time I'm going to be pissed. ;-)

[Kukesa]

106. I remember when you were on national news

with "DUKE" painted on your face. Your grandmother was livid and I was proud.

Still am, Jen.

[VolcanoJen]

108. Ha Ha!!!!

:hug: VolcanoMom :hug:

Wait a sec... I thought Grandma was a Democrat....??

[Kukesa]

Your grandparents USED to be Dems --

before your grandpa was promoted to management and they moved to the suburbs.

He and I had some bitter arguments about Nixon. I predicted Nixon was a bum from the git go.

Your grandmother was livid because she didn't think you looked good with all that paint on your face and that you were making a fool of yourself instead of staying home and cooking dinner, or whatever.

I, however, have been a Yellow Dog for more years than I care to remember.

[no name no slogan]

110. OMG you were a Dukakis supporter?

I am proud to say that was the first presidential campaign I actually accomplished anything on! I helped organize a college campus that covered two precincts. We had a 1000% increase in turnout in 1988 vs. 1984.

I managed to get all the way to the state convention that year as a delegate. Another one of the delegates from my precinct went to the national convention, and later ended up in Wellstone's senate office. Yet another one of the delegates to the national convention from my precinct (yes, we had TWO!) is now the speaker of the Minnesota state house of representatives.

And then there's me. I don't know how I ended up being such a bum. :D

[Kukesa]

114. Yes, she was! Her first foray into politics. (I'm her MOM.) n/t

[no name no slogan]

116. You done good, mom!

You should be very proud of yourself! :thumbsup:

[Kukesa]

117. Thank you kindly. I'm glad she and I are on the same side. n/t

[VolcanoJen]

119. Hey, I'm just proud that we're the original Anti-Bush Family!

Circa 1988!!!!!

:hug: VolcanoMom :hug:

[VolcanoJen]

115. I was just a baby.

:-) Generation X Kicks Ass!!!!!! :-)

But yes, that was my first foray into the realm of Democratic Presidential Politics. And I caught the bug, something bad. Haven't been able to shake it since!

I still love Kitty and Mike!!! :-)

[no name no slogan]

118. That's very fortunate you've got such a supportive and Democratic family, too

It seems to have skipped generations in my family. My mom's a moderate Republican, her dad is a moderate Republican, yet HIS dad was a solid Democrat, and very active, too. In fact, my great-grandfather used to run for Minneapolis's city council back in the 30s & 40s (used to know Humphrey). So I figure that's where I get it from.

And I STILL think a President Dukakis would have done wonders for this country!
:toast:

[Renew Deal]

122. NY (where I live) and SC (4 days)

I don't know what it is for sure. It very well might be disruptors. I've had this problem before. We banned the troublemakers out of our online groups.

[Sapphocrat]

48. You won't "get it" from this HRC supporter...

...because you have NOT been an asshole to me. :)

As for your concern, yeah, honestly, that's been a HUGH issue for me regarding the whole "unity" theme. I say this as a Democrat, not as a HRC supporter: This indiscriminate "reaching out" to Republicans, religious homophobes, and other currently-unstable and untested factions goes against every instinct I have, as a Democrat.

It's also the reason the "post-partisan unity" concept smacks of extremely misguided idealism -- and sends me fleeing to the HRC camp for cover. The Right is as crazy and dangerous and conniving as it ever was; after eight years of their insanity, why should we suddenly trust them to understand even the first thing about Democratic (capital D) principles?

We NEED defined, distinctive, unbending partisanship right now. We NEED to smack down the Republics as hard and fast as we can. THEY are supposed to be the "enemy" -- yet this "unity" thing is backfiring completely: The Obama camp is bringing in legions of UN-reliable converts, while driving away people like me: tried-and-true, lifelong, yellow-dog Democrats.

The whole thing feels like the parable of The Prodigal Son -- except I'm the good son who stayed home. And, in this version, the prodigal son doesn't get just an equal share in the father's fortune -- the prodigal son gets it all, and I'm kicked out of the house.

If disillusioned Repugs want to vote Dem in the GE, good! fine! let 'em! convince 'em! But to rely on them as newly-converted "Democrats" is setting yourself up for a gigantic letdown.

Yes, maybe they're just wooed by Obama's image -- but I think what you're really seeing is a backlash against their own party, which promised them marriage, but just screwed them without a kiss, and left before morning. I think a great many are not Obama supporters (or genuine new Democrats) so much as they are just plain bitter, and see Obama as the ultimate avenue for getting even with BushCo.

(They'd get even more revenge by backing Hillary, but their hatred for her runs so deep, there's not much chance of that.)

[ProgressIn2008]

52. Excellent post. Sums up my feelings about the entire process. nt

[griffi94]

54. i have to agree

with you....the new converts are untested...if the want to vote for the democrat in the general election fine....they shouldn't be choosing our nominee.....i think they're supporting obama by default....the repub nominating process is all but done....they dislike mccain....but they absoltuely loathe the clintons.....why not help hillary get knocked out early....i could absolutely be wrong...but i'll bet a lot of the crossovers for obama cross back over in nov....

[VolcanoJen]

69. Right on, Sapph.

:hug:

Good points... and fair. And thanks, also, for never being an asshole to me, either. :-)

[DURHAM D]

100. Good post - "driving away people like me"

My feelings exactly - good Dems being pushed aside by so-called progressives who are not even Dems and not liberals.

[goodgd_yall]

120. I share your sentiments

If Obama gets the nod and he becomes president, it will very interesting to me to see how his administration fares.

I'm hoping the Democratic Party doesn't become even more diluted so that it loses its identity.

[grantcart]

51. Are they American citizens? Are they against the War?

Two yesses and I give them a hug and a handshake.

By the way loved you on the radio the other night you should do it as often as you can very strong.

[NanBo]

56. Against the war

Excellent point. Lots of repubs I know have kids enter their late teens. Suddenly a 100 yr war doesn't appeal so much. They may not like voting Democratic, but they know we're running out of troops to support repub wars. Plus their 401k's are taking a hit and that's probably even more scary for them.

[grantcart]

72. Remember the 100 year war -

do you think that when they started that one that they were thinking shit we will be in this for 100 years? No its always 6 months and it will be over. Now we actually have a candidate who says ya it can go 100 - unbeleivable.

Also I get back to the American Citizen part. I have a brother who is a republican office holder - sort of - he is a judge. He is a republican because of only one issue - abortion - he is catholic. On every other issue from immigration to warrantless wiretaps he hates Bush republicanism all people like him want is half a reason to show that they have broader interests - like the poor - than abortion. But they do have to be asked and engaged. By the way my nephew's best friend was one of the first to die in Afghanistan. Lots of rural folks have been living with this war longer than a lot of people in the city. Casualties have been disproportionately carried by these rural areas. They have had enough.

[NanBo]

75. Absolutely

I agree with what you're saying completely. Some people won't even admit it, but they're tired of it.

[VolcanoJen]

74. Thanks, grant! Loved my radio stint!

And I'm now their "go-to Ohio gal" through the primary. I'll let you know when I'm on again!!

:hug:

Good point... if you're not anti-war and you're supporting Obama, I can barely even look at you. :-)

[grantcart]

91. also see upstream when I talk about my brother a republican office holder

Craig Grant

[Occam Bandage]

57. You realize that it is impossible to win '08 without some '04 Bush voters, right?

[VolcanoJen]

77. I do, indeed.

It's just weird working side-by-side with Republicans in a Democratic Primary. It's kind of a brand new experience to me, which is why I reached out for advice to my DU peeps, because at least I know you guys are Dems and Progressives. :hug:

[ctaylors6]

60. I think many like how Obama talks about unity but don't know details yet. Average voter not informed

like average DUer. I remember in 2000 one of my sister really liked McCain -- straight talk express and all that. I asked her if she realized he was anti-choice, and she had no idea.

[LaurenG]

62. I can only say ~Gobama

Lets just celebrate because there is no other option here most of the time. Yippy for Obama! :hi:

[Barack_America]

64. My advice. Focus on the future and not the past.

Focus on what unites you and not what divides you. Do on your listserv what we'll all hopefully do here on DU in the coming future, unite, focus on the task at hand and move forward.

I've gone through this with Republican family members. Just because one calls oneself a "Democrat" does not mean that person is like us.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

66. It's the strangest primary I can recall

Most of the R's I know are going to vote Huckabee. Why? They hate McCain. They really aren't getting that Huckabee doesn't have a chance of winning. None. Zero. Nada. Zip. It doesn't sink into their little heads. I've never seen such a resistance to the chosen GOP pick from the locals. Like I said, it's been strange.

I only know a couple of R's who have said they won't vote for either Republican. One of which is planning to vote for Obama, the other hasn't said yet, but I suspect from reading between the lines with her she'll vote for Hillary and just doesn't want to admit to it because she's spewed RW BS about her in the past. Of the one who has said they plan to vote for Obama the reasons they gave were all pretty valid if a bit self-serving. They're worried about their SS, Medicare and the current economy. Gas prices and inflation being a huge issue for this person.

I've run into more than a few Independents since 2004 who don't like Kerry. Mostly because they were blinded by the media spin. For them the meaning of "liberal" isn't the same as what you and I find it to be. After talking to them I realize they can't tell a liberal from a Communist.

[stahbrett]

68. Republicans should keep in mind "Be careful what you ask for"

Remember, the Democrats back in the 1980 were ecstatic that the Republicans chose the light-weight ex-movie star named Ronald Reagan, rather than one of the (assumed) tougher Democrats. Then Reagan went on to win (44 states, no less). So can Obama be the Democrats' version of a Reagan? I think so... (and please, don't get into the policies/issues that Reagan advocated - that is not the point here. Rather, Obama has the oratory skills and proven ability to reach out to disaffected members of the opposing party, plus independents, to have a real chance to win a huge mandate.)

[Emit]

70. Trust me, having lived with a Republican for the last 20 years

(who switched parties on caucus day to vote for the Dems) whose parents are Repub, siblings are, etc. (most of whom also switched because their party has abandoned them), it's a good thing these folks are switching and voting for a Dem. Three people in my family changed voter registration, and they're not changing back any time soon. They're in it for the duration, at least for the time being. It was all good -- no nefarious shenanigans with my Repubs.

edit typo

[VolcanoJen]

82. THANK YOU, everyone!

Gawd, I feel so much better. Just needed to reconnect with my progressive peeps. :-)

Felt like a fish out of water today... in my own damned Primary!

I heart all of you. :-)

:loveya:

[NanBo]

94. I may have a low post count

but I've been around for 4+ years, observing more than speaking, and I just want to say that I think most people here can sniff out an honest question from a troll bait. That goes for all sides in this fight. Some times there's a surprise, but usually not. Just my observation. Dems are pretty damn smart :) Glad you feel better about expressing your thoughts.

[depakid]

83. Those Republicans and most of the "independents" just want Hillary buried

once that's done, they'll march happily into the McCain camp.

What's really impressive is how, no matter how many times the Democrats lose, their leading candidates keep trying to pander to the right, somehow believing that the next time it'll be different.

[shaniqua6392]

88. They may vote for him in the open primaries but

they will most likely not vote for him in the GE. I wonder what the numbers will look like in November. Right now they have nothing to lose by voting Dem to throw the whole thing off. I don't think he is getting a bunch of Indies and Repugs voting for him now that are going to do it in November. I think they will vote for McCain for the most part. McCain is already the firm nominee for them and when their primary comes along they may be temporarily jumping ship just to thwart Clinton.

[PaDem]

89. Two things are at play here............

and neither should worry you.

First, Obama has genuine crossover appeal. It's not entirely dissimilar to the crossover appeal that Ronald Reagan had. Part of the genius (I think it's probably genius, though we won't know for sure until November) of the Obama campaign is that he's not said all that much of substance. He's not given the other side much to define him with, and you see now that they're focused on the lack of substance in his campaign. What's genius about this one might ask? The genius is that Obama this summer can begin to define himself as opposed to having the GOP do it for him (See Kerry in 2004, Gore in 2000). The GOP talking heads will keep at this "Hope doesn't trump substance" meme, and Obama will begin to define more concretely what he stands for in the lead up to the GE. But let's get back to Reagan for a second. He made people feel good and made them feel proud to be Americans. People who didn't agree with many of his policy positions voted for him anyway. Obama has the capability to do this, and I think some of the crossover is indicative of that.

Secondly, the "movement conservative" wing of the Republican Party hate the Hillary and her family so much that they can't help themselves from switching over in the primaries in order to support Obama. This in my view is good news for any progressive who is actually interested in taking the White House in 2008. These rabid crossover conservatives are hurting their party's chances in the general election with their impatience. I think they fear a Clinton presidency so much that stopping her now is worth the risk of losing the general election. They don't want to chance it.

Committed Clinton supporters on DU and elsewhere will tell you that GOPers are crossing over because Obama is the one they want in the general election. This is beyond absurd in my view. There is no logical reason for anyone to think that Hillary has a better chance to beat McCain than Obama. None whatsoever.

So many members of our party voted for Reagan and were complicit in whatever his administration accomplished (virtually all of it destructive). I for one welcome any Republicans who want to return the favor 28 years later.

[backscatter712]

90. I think overall, this is a very good thing.

A lot of conservative-leaning independents and Republicans have been fleeing the GOP, now that the antics of George W. Bush have made it obvious that GOP ideology is intellectually and morally bankrupt. They're sick of the Iraq War, they'd like real fiscal responsibility instead of lip service, they or their families are being screwed by our fucked-up health care system, they're having a harder time making a living in our stagnating economy, and they're tired of being lied to.

This is our chance. This is our opportunity. Maybe there will be a few jerks among the newcomers, but there will be a lot of people who are finally throwing aside their preconceptions and giving the Democratic Party a real, serious look.

If we can bring some of them into the fold, we can get that much closer to decades of majority rule!

[David Zephyr]

92. I agree and have posted so.

I do not like the fact that any of our primaries permit registered Republicans to vote in our contests. It is not right and it opens the process up to manipulation.

As a proud Obama supporter, I am glad to see you posting this, VolcanoJen.

It's the right thing.

[VolcanoJen]

98. Thanks, David.

My finger hovered over that "Post" button for several minutes. :-)

Just decided in the end to be honest, and reach out. Damn, you guys are the bestest.

[Rowdyboy]

95. The "Reagan-Democrats" who elected him in 1980 stayed with the party....Maybe the "Obamacans"

will be as loyal. I don't know but I think it could be a good thing.

[earth mom]

96. It proves to me that Obama is really a rethuglican trying to pretend he's a liberal.

Can't we just have Oprah instead?

[harun]

99. Its a good thing (n/t)

[NashVegas]

101. Have You Considered Telling Any of Them?

The people that you're getting into arguments with, have you tried explaining it from your end (non-hostile, of course)? Maybe comparing the situation to having someone come over to your house cause they want to watch a show on your new big TV screen, and they keep insulting the furniture ... may give them a little food for thought. The thing is, you'd have to agree to not harp on their poor choices :)

[VolcanoJen]

103. I want to, I want to badly.

Was feeling hostile, though, and needed to come here to DU and talk it over with my peeps, since DUers have bona fide liberal street cred!!!

:-)

I feel bolstered now, though. I knew it would work. Glad I hit "post" after all!

:hug:

[AZBlue]

102. Wait a minute - for years we moaned and bitched about them and couldn't

understand why they thought what they thought and said what they said. And, now they have seen the light, seen the stupidity of their party and have converted to "our side" - and we're still bitching and moaning??

[VolcanoJen]

121. Well, I'm the one doing the bitching and moaning

I'm concern-trolling their sudden interest in Barack Obama, and how unusual and strange it is to me, a grassroots activist who honestly isn't so used to them hanging around Dem HQ.

I came here for advice. Not for everyone to agree with me... and I feel like it's been a positive thing.

[AZBlue]

123. Actually, I didn't think you were bitching and moaning at all.

You were asking a genuine question - it's other posts I was referring to, I apologize for not making that clearer.

[VolcanoJen]

124. It's all good.

:hug: AZBlue :hug:

[geiger]

105. we'll take the cross-overs....

I have a close relative that is an R-locally designated office holder. She's crossing and votin OBAMA.


It's not all bad; it's because the R's have no viable candidate.

You're doin good. Hang in there.

[Exilednight]

107. Republicans took control by converting Democrats, now is our..

opportunity to do the same. I remember when many Democrats were wooed over by Reagan and his mass appeal to independents and moderate liberals.

My advice, don't look at them as opponents or insurgents.

Look at them as future Democrats.

Nothing happens overnight. It took Republicans four years to galvanize.

This is nothing more than growing pains.

[goodgd_yall]

111. Well, on the positive side

If Obama becomes our nominee and the other side keeps saying the voters have to fear him because he's the most liberal senator in Congress, he can point to the many Republicans and say, if he was that liberal, why would Republicans vote for him?

[mdmc]

112. As a green leaner I never minded the pukes giving him cash

Better then giving it to Bush.

Ditto with stormfront and R.Paul.

No harm

[LisaL]

113. Isn't it obvious?

They dislike Hillary so much, they are voting for Obama in the primary, but in GE, they are gonna switch right back.