If Hillary loses bigtime tonight

[ruggerson]

by 10 points or more, I don't see the necessity of her dragging this to Ohio and Texas. She has every right to do so, but I don't think it's helpful to the party at that point or our chances in November.

If she's viable politically after tonight, if she has substantial support or wins, then by all means she should move forward.

I still think she would make a much better President than Barack, but them's the breaks in politics. She didn't have a ground game after Super Tuesday and that's the fault of the people who ran her campaign. They let her down. And we have to remember, she's the one who put her faith in them and hired them.

In any case, I think she's a remarkable woman and I hope someday we're lucky enough to have a President with her skills, her tenacity and intelligence.

I'm not throwing in the towel, I'm content to wait and see the results tonight, and if she decides to continue nonetheless, that's her prerogative.

But at some point we have to look at the larger picture, which is defeating McCain.

I try to divorce my feelings about Obama from my feelings about some of his more vocal supporters. If in the end, he's our standard bearer, then he gets my full support.

Hillary supporters: I'm not giving up the ghost, just being realistic. Don't yell at me. :)

[BeatleBoot]

1. June 7th - Puerto Rico

[KittyWampus]

8. the GOP would love that.

[Thepricebreaker]

I fully agree - Drag it out - help the GOP!

[BeatleBoot]

18. Obama will help them plenty enough.

But that does give his supporters the "out".

If he should make it until November and lose, they can blame his loss on Hillary "dragging it out" until June 7th.

And what about all the GOP posters on here for Obama - they'll have to keep it up through May!!!

No. I say she sticks this one out.

[Hawkeye-X]

28. Are you this stupid?

Are you saying PR is winner gets all? I don't think so pal. It's proportioned like everything else. June 7th is just dragging it out for no reason whatsoever except to waste time. Obama should be preparing to take McCain head-on right now.

Hawkeye-X

[Kittycat]

23. What about PR? It's a proportional split.

[NC_Nurse]

2. A great post. I think she should stay in if it's close too.

I don't understand people who want her to drop out until it's clearly over.
She has every right to continue.

[rinsd]

3. I'm not gonna yell. If she loses by 10+, I just don't see a path to the nomination.

[Reterr]

4. I agree-it would be unhelpful

If she loses WI, it is best at this point to throw in the towel I think. I am really hoping she can still pull off WI, because I would much rather vote for her than Barack, but if she can't, I hope she drops out. At the end of the day, whether we care much for Barack or not (and God knows I don't), we all have to pull together and keep McCain out of the WH.

[monmouth]

5. Good and honest post. I still miss Joe Biden and STILL think he would

have been the best to lead in these particular times...But, as you say, if she doesn't make a substantial showing tonight, save her money and concentrate on electing Barack. Then, who knows, she would be a viable candidate for numerous positions (Speaker of the House?)and would also show she does care for the sanctity of the Democratic Party. I loved your post...

[desi]

6. Well we are opening our local office tomorrow evening

at 5:00 PM and Terry McCauliffe will be at the grand opening so it appears that she will not be hanging it up just yet...

[rodeodance]

10. Good for you. Best and have fun

[desi]

20. Thanks rodeodance...

and THANK YOU for being such a strong advocate for OUR GIRL!..we will be hitting the ground running first thing Thursday morning...:pals:

[Hawkeye-X]

30. Open tomorrow, closed at 5pm permanently.

Sorry, if Wisconsin is any indication tonight, Hillary will be dropping out soon.

[Straight Shooter]

39. If Gallup's latest poll is any indication, she needs to stay in the race.

"Today's Gallup tracking poll shows the national Democratic race to be a virtual tie between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, a shift from yesterday's numbers that showed Obama's lead to be outside the margin of error."

Feb 16 - 18:


Clinton was seven percentage points behind Obama in the Feb. 15-17 average. For all we know, Obama may have reached a tipping point, as the media has been scrutizing him a bit more lately.

[rodeodance]

7. media said she would lose this 10 state sweep in February. WI. is not must for her.

[anamandujano]

21. Game, set, match.

[readmoreoften]

9. SHE FUCKING BETTER BECAUSE I WANT TO REGISTER MY VOTE FOR EDWARDS!

I hate primaries.

[Renew Deal]

15. lol

Everybody's got something. :D

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. There are two nationally televised one on one debates scheduled before TX and OH

We have seen momentum shift in Presidential Elections due to the performance of the candidates in head to head debates. We have even seen momentum shifts after multi candidate Democratic debates - toward Hillary after the NH debate, away from Hillary after the SC debate.

Now that the Republican race is settled, the public's attention will be very much focused on the upcoming Presidential debates between Clinton and Obama. There is no reason on Earth why Clinton should leave this race before those debates. There are four crucial events in the next two or so weeks; two Presidential debates followed by two critical primaries. There is absolutely no way to know for sure how those events will cumulatively play out based on the returns from Wisconsin tonight.

Talk to me again after those debates and those primaries, but some of the more intense vetting of our candidates is only starting to happen now. There is too much still in front of us to make any sure conclusions tonight about Hillary's ultimate chances.

[BeyondGeography]

35. I agree, no need to bail

It's good for Texas and Ohio, too.

[ruggerson]

36. If she gets swamped tonight

the media will be out for her blood. Not that they aren't already. But it will be an even more difficult environment for her. But, you're right, debates have altered things in the past, I just think it's a longshot and at some point you want to see the party come together.

[cali]

12. I don't think she'll lose by much tonight if she loses

and I think it's quite possible she wins. I certainly don't see her losing by 10 pts.

[KAZ]

13. Ruggerson, that was amazing! This is what DU should be.

And if it goes the other way, I'm behind her all the way. And you're right, she's much better than this campaign. A most heartfelt K&R.

[slick8790]

14. Thanks for your honest opinion.

I think most people know how hard it is when you can see a candidate you believe so much in is on the ropes. I went through it with John Edwards. No matter what, you have the right idea. Full support for our nominee is crucial.

[Neshanic]

16. Yes it will be over. Hillary will not be viable. Very sad.

[Johnny__Motown]

17. I think we should all assume she will take her lawyers to the convention

[madrchsod]

19. no it`s going on till the last state votes

no one is going to quit

[Renew Deal]

22. Heard that before

[Yael]

24. The suddenness in which John dropped his bid still stuns me

I wish I had been better prepared for it. I really thought he was going the distance.

It was a Very hard debate to watch in LA on 1/31 and ST was really depressing.

I wish I had gotten more in a "long run" perspective back in January.

I applaud you for looking past this state. I think she is in until March 4th, but as someone who has been there -- if she drops, I know how you feel and I have your back.

:hug:

[ruggerson]

27. thanks Yael

she may be, but unless the dynamics change, I'm not so sure March 4th will bring us anything different.

[babylonsister]

25. Have faith; Gallup: Obama's lead vaporizes

This one's for you, ruggerson. I also want you to know I appreciate your post; shows the classy person you are.
:pals:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/gallup_dem_race_a_dead_heat.php

Gallup: Dem Race A Dead Heat
By Eric Kleefeld - February 19, 2008, 1:51PM

Today's Gallup tracking poll shows the national Democratic race to be a virtual tie between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, a shift from yesterday's numbers that showed Obama's lead to be outside the margin of error:

Obama 46% (-3)
Clinton 45% (+3)

Late Update: Some analysis from Gallup shows that the plagiarism accusations might have had something to do with it, though it's too early to know for sure. Key quote:

Clinton was seven percentage points behind Obama in the Feb. 15-17 average. In Monday night's interviewing, Clinton's percentage of the vote of national voters was higher than Obama's, but there has been fluidity in the nightly tracking numbers over the past several days as Democrats nationally process the intense, often heated, nature of the campaign. Monday's news coverage of the Democratic campaign was replete with a focus on the Clinton campaign's charges that Obama had plagiarized material from Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick and other negative attacks on Obama by the Clinton campaign. It is unclear which, if any, of these factors could be responsible for changes in the candidates' standing.

[ruggerson]

31. thanks babsis

back atcha! :hug:

[cloudythescribbler]

26. Very thoughtful post from a VERY strong supporter of Hillary

Hopefully, this is how Democrats in general at DU will be about the nominee. I would certainly vote for Hillary Clinton if she got the nomination, although I strongly favor Obama.

The thought, after 5 years of this debacle in Iraq (one that I was in protests against before the invasion, as were other anti-imperialists), of getting another president devoted to keeping up our useless fight there until the cows come home is UTTERLY demoralizing. Clearly it's not what the American people want at this point. But the powers that pee might have an agenda of their own, one that seems to ALWAYS get fulfilled.

Again, I think DAILY reminders to the voters about the Iraq War, repeatedly underscoring how the trillions it would cost would burden our already troubled economy -- that really should be enough to get us BOTH a Democratic president AND a more Democratic Congress.

[Barack_America]

29. Wow. That's very big of you.

Full props. :patriot:

[LeftCoast]

32. I gotta say, I agree with just about everything you've said here.

What will be interesting to see is whether any of the anti-Clinton vomitistas will still be posting then.

[Tatiana]

33. Classy post. The goal is to beat McCain. We should NEVER forget that.

I think Hillary is in this, at the very least, through March 4th. I don't think she will (or should) give up until we find out what the voters in Texas and Ohio have to say. If she wins big in those two states, this race is still up in the air.

[ORDem]

34. I agree, but OH and TX will happen. BUT, if she loses one or both

of those and then continues, she should be urged, emphatically, that it's over, and not to drag this out. We should at that point have our nominee and be concentrating on kicking McCain's ass up one side of the street and down the other. Repeat as necessary!

:patriot:

[TeamJordan23]

37. Very class post. nm

[JPZenger]

38. Another Superdelegate for Obama (Former Phila. City Councilwoman)

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/412285.html

Another superdelegate has promised to vote for Obama. It is former Phila. City Councilwoman Carol Ann Campbell.

Excerpts:

"...she made up her mind Saturday after receiving a telephone call from the Illinois senator's wife, Michelle.

The women talked for nearly 90 minutes about the problems of the handicapped, children being raised by their grandparents and the importance of religion in their lives. Campbell said she decided on the spot to support Obama over New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton "because of the level of comfort" she felt.

In superdelegate canvassing by The Associated Press, Campbell previously had said she was undecided. With Campbell's endorsement, Obama is backed by three of the 26 superdelegates selected so far. Clinton has been endorsed by 13 and the rest are neutral. Campbell, who heads Philadelphia's black ward leaders, said she is particularly concerned about international hostility toward the United States and suggested that electing the nation's first black president might ease that."

[NMMNG]

40. I could never yell at you

:hi:

[TheDoorbellRang]

41. I'd like to see the contest continue thru Ohio and Texas

but only if the negativity stops. When I watch or read about election news, all the focus and excitement is on the democratic race, with McCain vs. Huckabee a very dull "and also in the news..." If Obama comes out on top in Ohio and Texas, the story will be how the "naive" campaigner beat the inevitable frontrunner. If Hillary comes out on top, she, too, will be seen to have fought a tough battle and really "earned" her candidacy, as opposed to having it handed to her.

I think mentally we have all drawn an intangible finish line on March 4, and for either to drop out after Wisconsin would be as deflating as when Edwards dropped out.

If the negativity can be excised from the campaign, I think the continued contest helps whoever the democratic nominee is this fall. (Have to admit I'm hoping Obama comes out on top, but the Dem nominee will have my vote come November.)

[LWolf]

42. What rights do the voters in Texas, Ohio, and, of course,

other late primary states have? Do they have the right to have an equal say in the nomination?

[blocker]

43. ITS OVER!!

Gotta vote for Obama in the general! he was my second choice anyway!

[Barack_America]

44. Be nice to the Clinton supporters.

Last night was tough.