Two Questions:

[H2O Man]

These are a couple of the things that I've been thinking about today. The first question is based on history; the second is a "current event" question based upon watching Barack Obama speak tonight. Feel free to answer one or both.

(1) What do older DUers remember about the days surrounding the 1968 Wisconsin primary?

(2) In terms of potential voters, say ages 18 to 24, which would sound more attractive right now: John McCain, who suggests the war in Iraq will last another 100 years, or Barack Obama, who says he will end it in 2009?

Thank you for you thoughts.

[mac2]

1. Are there McCain supporters/voters on this blog?

[H2O Man]

9. If there were,

I don't think they would raise their hand tonight.

America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster
-- Steppenwolf; "Monster"

[Spider Jerusalem]

26. This isn't a blog, this is a discussion forum

a blog is something entirely different.

[mac2]

36. OK

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

32. Heck yes!! McCain!! HooRah!!!

Good health care for rich people!!

Another "Hundred Years War" (haven't had one of those in a while)!!!

What's not to like?

:hi:

[mac2]

38. Where is King George when you need him at the battle?

[tekisui]

2. 2. You know the answer.

Obama did well framing it "Past vs. Future" very early on. He chose that phrase for McPain more than for Clinton.

[libertee]

4. In the end the American Male will vote McCain..mark my words

[Hill_YesWeWill]

6. Are you the same person I replied to earlier? Last time I checked, my husband is an American Male!

[libertee]

11. I can't begin to tell you about the conversations being had by the

over 55 crowd...repub. and dem...and they show up to VOTE...y'all better keep the fervor going!

[Hill_YesWeWill]

21. Oh, I guess I've been reading the news wrong, I thought that the youth HAVE been voting no?

but you can discount us as much sa you want, I don't really see the point, I WILL vote democratic, no matter who the candidate is

[fascisthunter]

8. not this male

[tekisui]

12. Not this one, or any that I know. My bro. My Dad. My Co-workers.

Many many American male friends.

[mac2]

They wanted the first Jewish VP which cost Gore the

election. He would have won it by a large margin but the MW and South would not support Lieberman. If it were Wellstone it might have been different since he was liked. But Lieberman no way? Even Democrats didn't like or trust Lieberman.

I talked with locals who voted for Bush because they thought he would not let Isreal control us. Look what happpened?

I don't see a following for Obama or history of any support. The South, SW, and MW won't vote for him. He's there to lose us the election. If he choses a DLC VP then it's all over.

Both party members want an end to the war, Faith Based Charity cronyism, and accountability for corruption. They also want the trade agreements gone. Our borders protected and no amnesty. Where is that candidate of either party?

Hillary and Obama supported most of the illegal trade agreement...Peru, etc. They are "globalists". Trade and the purse...declare and monitor the war is Congress' duty. Trade is not the President or his appointed theives behind closed doors. Where is the support of the Constitution and their Congressional duties to support and fight for it (our freedoms and rights)?

[slick8790]

18. I'm an american male...

:shrug:

[Emit]

28. Not mine n/t

[VolcanoJen]

3. I was two years old in '68

And I honestly don't know what happened. I'd like to. I'm very interested.

[Coexist]

me too, old lady!

[H2O Man]

14. In 1968,

the dynamics in the democratic primary were intense. After McCarthy had done well in N.H., a few things happened quickly: RFK got in, and LBJ got out. Then HHH got in. There was a shift.

In the republican primary, a snake named Ronald Reagan was looking to see if he could exploit an opening for a right-wing conservative.

Strange days.

(I may do a longer essay tomorrow.)

[VolcanoJen]

15. I'd appreciate that, H2O.

I'd love to hear more DU stories.

[H2O Man]

16. I would, too.

I'm curious what some other folks remember from those days.

[keep_it_real]

5. Obama, who says he will end it in 2009

Go America! Go Bama!

[MichiganVote]

7. Comparing apples and oranges...in '68 MLK was a bad guy to many whites

Today it just seems to be female candidates....

[H2O Man]

13. I am asking

about the presidential primary in 1968. Just apples, please.

[MichiganVote]

19. Alright. Here's the way it was. It was ugly, as ugly as any of the words that are

spoken for or against Obama or Clinton. There were riots, children were warned, people kept loaded firearms in their homes, businesses went up in flames...there was Walter Cronkite on TV and VietNam and real bodies in real coffins showing up on the evening news between the Coke ads and the ads for new cars...It was real everyday. And it didn't matter if you were a ten year old with a brother in the heat or a wife or a mother or a father. Everybody saw the war, everybody knew the war, everybody fought the war and fought not to fight the war. There was no talk of hope or courage, it was already in the homes of the wounded or dead soldiers.

The dead included Robert Kennedy and MLK.

And guess what? The country still elected a republican. Republicans KNOW how to win elections. We may not like it, but they do. George Wallace was a formidable candidate as was Nixon. Humphrey was the best that the Democrats put up and all he talked about was Law and Order. Yeah, law and order when the candidates we depend on, for good or ill, to participate in our "democracy" are murdered.

We were uncivilized, unclothed before the entire world as being without control. It was a race that balanced the scales in the minds of some, unleashed total destruction of the Dem ideals in others and fundamentally just sickened anyone who recognized the truth about VietNam.

It was all an exercise in bullshit.

So if you're looking for anything romantic to link the likes of Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama to--forget it. Its a myth in your mind. Nice on paper, great little editorial for some fool, but completely missing in relevance.

It wasn't a Dem. advantage that we lost in '68, it was our humanity.

[H2O Man]

20. Silly

[grantcart]

10. I like your "Thank you for your thoughts" it so unnerved me by its

common decency that I totally forgot the extremely provocative brilliant response that would have triggered massive interest in this thread driving it to permanent status on the greatest threads. Damn shows you how dangerous politeness can be.

[bagimin]

17. My wife and I were 18 in '68

and in a folk group and we played a Eugene McCarthy rally in Boston. My irrelevant brush with '68 politics.

[blogslut]

22. I was 8 in 68

1) I remember that everyone was angry all the time. That and seeing the war on television every day.

2) I think 18-24's want something they can believe in.

[2rth2pwr]

25. What does your number 2 mean?

Really.


Tomorrow is the future, the future is change, we are the change we have been waiting for, don't wait to change the future, the future waits for change, tomorrow we change the future, future change is possible if we believe, we believe in tomorrow, we believe that tomorrow possibly is the future that we have been waiting for, the possibilities that change has for our future selves is unbelievable, believe it or not the future is tomorrow, tomorrows future can change if we just believe, wait for tomorrow because I believe it is the future...blah,blah ..proudly we face the future tomorrow if we hope we can believe.

[blogslut]

27. Instead of being an ass

Why don't just find a thread where your insidious bitterness is welcome?

[2rth2pwr]

29. LOL! my, my touchy touchy. Sensitive spot?

Vapor speak is getting tiresome.

[blogslut]

30. So is your jealousy

Look in the mirror. Do you like what you see?

[Me.]

23. Not Being 18-24

I can only guess that they've grown up in a divided country which has been at 'war' most of their lives and are sick to death of the same old, same old.

[mac2]

35. The Baby Boomer generation and younger

think that peace on our soil, freedom, prosperity, and American superpower rank will go on forever. They've never known anything else.

We now live in Orwellian type times and they don't seem to care. If they were drafted like during Vietnam they might. They don't connect their lack of good jobs and a future with danger for some reason.

"I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking
about peace." Bush, June 18, 2002

[puebloknot]

24. It's elementary, my dear Waterman: Whether Obama can carry it off or not...

...he's at least talking about it. We who are older deserve respect, but not necessarily the White House, and I think young people are really drawn to Obama, even if they don't have a clue about his platform. Their gut instinct tells them that Obama is stuck in the future, much more than the past, and they want someone they can relate to. How can they possibly support McCain when he is telling them, straight out, that he's planning for the deaths of many of them in an illegal occupation of Iraq????

McCain served, and suffered, honorably, it seems. But it's time for a changing of the guard!

Obama is young, has a young and beautiful wife, and young children. I'd certainly feel more comfortable if voters of all ages were more concerned with his platform than his soaring rhetoric, but America is exhausted from the last ten years of political agony (I include the impeachment of Bill Clinton here), and change, real or imagined, is holding sway.

I am depressed and aggrieved that we as a country seem to be willing to sweep the crimes of Bushco under the rug in the name of change. On that one point, I have grave concerns about both Obama and Hillary.

One thing at a time. Whichever candidate takes the White House will have much more damage to worry about than restoring all the W keys on all the computer keyboards.

[bulldogge]

31. With all due respect

I think it is a dangerous stereotype to assume that young people have no idea what Obama's platform is. I think that it is quite the opposite I believe the reason they want him in office is that they are very aware of his platform. I say this as someone who works with voting age youth. Something that I do want to point out though is that he is not interested in being in Iraq but believes that there are issues in Afghanistan that need to be addressed so the "War" is far from over with either candidate in office.

I agree with you on the point of Bushco crimes being swept under the rug but I think that also relies on a changing of the guard, the gang in power is not going to bite the hand that feeds.

I came across an interesting quote today that reminds me of your comment on Bushco

"Without justice, what then are kingdoms but great robberies? For what are robberies themselves but little kingdoms?" Augustine of Hippo

though I disagree with a lot of his ideas that one seemed appropriate.

[Me.]

33. My Main Reservation About Obama

Is that according to what he's said, he doesn't consider the crimes of the * administration to be at an impeachment level. He has said that impeachment shouldn't be used as a political tool and should be reserved for grave crimes. If */Cheney haven't committed those I don't know who has.

[mac2]

34. Yes..I agree

[puebloknot]

37. I didn't intend to paint with a broad brush and suggest that young people...

...in general are uninformed. I just don't believe we can assume that the electorate, whatever their ages, are all as informed as we might hope.

Obama has publicly stated he does not think Bushco has committed crimes that deserve impeachment. So how does he propose to hold them accountable? There is a very large hand feeding him that he is being careful not to bite, as we speak. But he's not alone in that. (I'm not a Hillary supporter, BTW. I'm watching and waiting.)

Good quote!

[mac2]

39. Obama hasn't done much since he went to DC

He made promises and gave good speeches. We are disappointed here in IL.