What happens to the Democrats if Hillary completely refuses to drop out?

[60TrenchesGone]

With some discussion lately that Hillary's team may attempt to go after pledged delegates (not supers), her refusal to even publicly congratulate Obama or mention his victories, and the reliance on petty negative attacks to win... it seems to me that even if she loses Texas and/or Ohio she will not give up gracefully. What if she takes this fight all the way to the convention and attempts to come out on top by any means necessary? What could this show about the Democratic Party as a whole?

My concern is that in the media Democrats will end up looking like a confused, divided, embattled, and mean-spirited disorganization when they should be attracting a lot of hopeful young new voters to a fresh new message. In effect, could Hillary's desperation for the Presidency weaken the party and setup for a win against McCain? Thoughts?

[libertee]

1. Would it be the same if O becomes the runner up..?

[60TrenchesGone]

4. no...

1)If Obama was the runner up he seems a lot more likely to handle both wins and losses with grace and class. He's not exactly a "by any means necessary" type winner.

2) Statistically there's almost no way that Obama could become the runner up at this point. His lead has become virtually insurmountable... by ethical means. Thus leaving the unsavory potential for an unethical individual who wants to win and doesn't care about how.

[Hieronymus]

10. Hillary has twice refused to give a concession speech. What ego.

[MonkeyFunk]

20. It's not expected

to give a concession speech for every primary.

That's a requirement that Obama supporters have invented this year.

[99th_Monkey]

33. And he turns his lemons into lemonaide quit well. See NH "concession" speech. nt

[Tesha]

48. It is routine to comment on the outcome, thank your supporters, and to congratulate the winner.

Clinton has given up doing any of this. She has folks who
work hard for her and she leaves their states before the
results are even in, abandoning them to their "after
election" parties while she jets off to give another
stump speech in the next "turnaround" state.

What dismal events those parties must be!

Tesha

[jasmine621]

40. Already trying to spin a possible GE loss as Hillary's fault.

Amazing. I wondered what Obama supporters would do if and when Hillary concedes and bows out. Now I know. When Obama loses the GE, and he will, it will be Hillary's fault.

[HeraldSquare212]

2. She'll be forced out by the rest of the party.

[Zhade]

12. Like lieberman, who was given a standing ovation by the Dem leadership after his betrayal?

The same leadership that won't do their fucking job to impeach criminals?

I doubt it.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. If? When!

You'll only pry the scepter out of her cold, dead hands.

I hope that enough important Dems have the fortitude to terminate her candidacy with extreme prejudice. I think that the Clinton SC race-bait-o-rama and their subsequent jaw-dropping displays of slander and prevarication have angered enough people to stop them - but we'll see.

[ShortnFiery]

28. Yes, we need a democratic "Captain Willard" to figuratively terminate her candidacy

... with extreme prejudice. :evilgrin:

[Kahuna]

45. What you said. nt

:applause:

[skids]

5. Answer: The Democratic Party wins.

A fifty state primary process gets the rust out of the GOTV machine in all 50 states.

Very good for the party.

[Renew Deal]

29. Waste of millions

Waste of time.
Division and negativity.
McCain runs free.
President McCain

That's what happens.

[skids]

38. Money well spent.

McCain will essentially just be running his campaign to pay off his debt. In fact he's probably begging Huckabee to stay in to keep up the appearance of a race so the contributions don't stop. It'll be the Republicans throwing their money into a bottomless pit in the GE. McCain is toast. Many Rs will not "fall back in line" for him. Like Giuliani, about all he can hope to accomplish is pulling in as much cash as he can and using it to curry favors.

[eridani]

44. I agree. And the Rethug slime machine doesn't know where to aim n/t

[meow mix]

6. riots... and mayhem

itll be bad

[jgraz]

15. Dogs and cats, living together!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

7. Like a Huckabee?

[MindMatter]

25. Exactly. Absolutely nothing.

Chill people. It it 9 freaking months -- 9 painfully long months before the election. Whether she drops out now or hangs on way beyond the point of relevance as Huckabee is doing, makes no difference at all.

The only thing that would make a difference is if the Clintons and their DLC chums somehow manage to turn this into a superdelgate fight at the convention. But with these Obama landslides that just isn't very likely at all. You can bet that there are a whole bunch of superdelegates who are sorry they pledged for her too early. Like most modern Democrats, these are the spineless ones who thought that was the safe move -- you know, not taking any chances at upsetting the presumptive candidate. These spineless wonders aren't about to make a ruckus at the convention. They will be too busy sucking up to Obama because that's all they know how to do in life.

Note to Obama. Keep track of those spineless wonders and make sure they are never given any position of responsibility. Not out of vindictiveness, but out of the simple recognition that those are the core group that have put this party into its 30 year funk.

[MindMatter]

27. PS. Howard Dean must be loving this.

[BuyingThyme]

8. Welcome to DU, 60TrenchesGone! And thanks for your concern.

:hi:

[60TrenchesGone]

16. thanks...

Not actually new here, just mostly lurk rarely post. But obviously Obama has got a lot of folks coming out of the woodwork with passion (myself included). :)

[davidinalameda]

9. I wouldn't doubt in the least that Hillary would throw the party under the bus

to fulfill her and Bill's ambitions

she's have to be paid off with something like a Supreme Court nomination

[earthside]

11. Will she risk utter humiliation?

I'm not so sure that Clinton(s) will adopt a scorched earth strategy, thereby dividing the Democratic Party.

Because Bill and Hill certainly do not want to risk utter, total humiliation -- they will not take defeat after defeat after defeat.

Either before impending loses in Texas and Ohio, or just after, Bill and Hill will find a way to tactfully 'suspend' their campaign.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

13. I really believe that if it looks obvious to her that she can't win fair that she will concede

she's going to take it about as far as she can, but at some point she's oging to accept it, I don't think she wants to cost the country a democratic president, I really do believe she cares about this country, and she won't let it come to that.

But, I think she might let it Almost come to that!

[TexasObserver]

14. She will be like a sparring partner for the champ as he warms up for the real opponent.

Since she's already morphing into McCain Talk and RW Speak, that makes her of some value.

He keeps having big victory laps, and without her, Obama couldn't do that. She's actually serving some purpose.

Also, her continued efforts to strong arm or buy superdelegates will drive the party leaders to reject her further.

She may hang around until the last shred of respect for her is gone, except among her tiny core of activists.

[truedelphi]

17. Here's an important thought - what happens if

THE CIA sets up the riots and mayhem some DU
ers are concerned about.

A long time ago, my husband heard that Hillary and Bill were CIA. Or they were operating for the benefit of the CIA.

I did not want to believe this, but over the nineties, with the Clintons not getting behind various needed reforms, and certainly not playing like they wanted to win (The Gays in the military, the Health Plan, the campaign finance reform) and also with their finally just conceding one verything, the Welfare Reform legislation, the selling out of hte American people via items like NAFTA, and the Telecom Bill of 1996, it became apparent that
A) they weren't anywhere as near to being in control as they should have been - many aspects of Bill's Presidency look like he was a puppet - SO MAYBE THEY WERE ONLY FIGURE EHADS
B) theuy were in control of the Presidency - but in various areas incompetent.

So why shouldn't we be nervous that maybe the CIA will come in and will get some major disruption going.

It is yet another reason Hillary should bow out - and if she doesn't I ahve to re-consider what I was told summer of 1992.

[scheming daemons]

18. We're going to find out... she'll never drop out....

...Everything she ever does is ALL ABOUT HER.

[casus belli]

19. That would be political suicide, I can't see her doing it. n/t

[apocalypsehow]

23. I can. I don't think the Clinton's think there should be a Democratic president in 2009

if that Democratic president is not HRC. I have come, sadly, to the conclusion that they honestly believe that if Democratic primary voters are too "stupid" to give her her "deserved" coronation, then to hell with the Democratic party and let McCain have it. The narcissism is palpable.

[totodeinhere]

24. It would be just like 2004.

The Clintons will give Obama only lukewarm support just like they did with Kerry in 2004 hoping that Obama will lose so that Hillary can run again in 2012. After all, she would be 65 years old and still plenty young enough to run again. Or put it this way, the Clintons will never give up.

[casus belli]

35. Lukewarm support is better than a political Kamikaze.

If she doesn't want to stand firmly behind the candidate, that's her prerogative. But, if she wants any shot at a future politically she should at least concede gracefully.

[casus belli]

34. But you have to consider....

that if she were to try and fracture the party, and fail to do so...her political career and her husband's legacy would be relegated to the junk pile of political history. I assume she wants to continue on in politics, as at least a Senator, if she doesn't win the primary. If she tries to disrupt in a fit of sore-loserdom, she runs the risk of ending any chances she may have in her political future.

[riverwalker]

21. an intervention

Gore, Edwards, Biden and Richardsen do an intervention, and confront her with the damage she is doing to the family...er...party with her addiction.
We are here for you Hillary, get the monkey off your back.

[JVS]

22. Superdelegates kick her out the door.

[Kahuna]

46. Riiiight. They deliver the message. It's over. Time to pack it in. nt

[ShortnFiery]

26. Our party will be ripped to shreds. But, IMO, I'm afraid that The Clintons are that damn selfish.

[apocalypsehow]

30. Precisely.

Sad, but true.

[grantcart]

31. There is going to be an intervention

[Rageneau]

32. Why should she drop out? HRC is a fighter. She'll fight to the end.

If Obama does not win enough delegates to win the nomination outright, then he should not expect that Hillary will roll over and cede it to him. One reason to support Hillary over other candidates is because we know she will fight. Unlike Gore or Kerry, she will not concede squat until she is actually, legally, officially vanquished. She will not leave the field with five minutes on the clock, not even if she's trailing by 50 points. And I hope she doesn't.

I'm immune to maudlin moans that I should want Hillary to drop out and get behind Obama because he has the most delegates, and because it's bad for the party to continue the rift a second longer than necessary.

I might have cared about party unity at one time -- in fact, I did, -- but after watching the two best Democrats of my lifetime -- two of the most outstanding, self-sacrificing people who ever worked for the common good -- be called racists when everybody KNOWS they are not ... well, that and other below-the-belt politics have made me feel toward one half of my party the same way I do toward the Freepers, who hate Hillary just as much, and who use pretty much the same slogans and arguments against her.

As to a deadlocked convention, in the words of that great warrior president, George Weasel Bush,
I say, "Bring it on!"

[sendero]

47. I don't think..

... they are racists but I think Bill deliberately set out to use the racism of others to their advantage, and that is just as bad, sorry.

I'm sure you are right, HRC will struggle to the bitter end and frankly I don't care. She's going to lose anyway, she's merely inflicting more pain upon herself.

The next time she decides to take the wrong side of the overwhelmingly important issue of the time against the wishes of 2/3s of the public, she should pause to reflect whether she really has that much power.

[BringBigDogBack]

36. She becomes irrelevant...

as she is forced out by the party.

[Johnny__Motown]

37. Clintons don't care if they damage the party, once that becomes apparent their support will fade

[BenDavid]

39. Why should she drop out? hell as of 11 51 ct obama has

Pledged:1140 Superdelegates: 161 Total: 1,301 and HRC has Pledged: 1005 Superdelegates: 234Total: 1,239

So tell me again why she should drop out?

[caligirl]

41. If super delegates go against the will of a majority of delegtates pledged to

BO she will never be seen as the true nominee, not a great way to unite the country when you just obliterated the democratic party to live in the WH. She divides and destroys our party and the rest of the country watches there best chance at freedom in Iraq and Iran go up in flames.

[60TrenchesGone]

43. She should drop out because

WITHOUT supers, Obama has an almost 140 point lead (let's see what happens in Hawaii tonight). That means the only way she could realistically plan on winning is by subverting the popular vote.

[Metric System]

42. Hmm, political ambition and self-interest above party interest. Now who does that remind me of? Ah

yes, Ted Kennedy circa 1980, but he's an Obama supporter so he gets a pass.

[greguganus]

49. She will run as an Independent with Linden LaRouche as her VP. n/t

[Firespirit]

50. History will repeat

In the two months of GE campaigning, Bill will turn up with McCain... "Golly gee shucks, I like McCain. Oh, and Obama." Hillary will kindly "volunteer" her staff. When the big media smear against Obama occurs, those staffers will muzzle him from fighting back. On Election Night, when the deciding state is in doubt, Carville will phone his Republican bunkmate and tip off McCain's campaign that the Obama operation intends to challenge the results.

And DU will blame Obama for everything for the next four years.

[AlertLurker]

51. Why SHOULD she?

The media will make Democrats look bad ANYWAY - that's what they DO, remember?

Hillary does not seem desperate to me. She's not too far down yet, and has as good a chance (according to the polls and the error margins) of taking Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania as Obama. I have yet to see any convincing argument revealing why she should give up.

I must admit, the delegate wooing confuses me. If you are a pledged delegate, how do you un-pledge your support? If it happens, how is this against the rules?

To answer the question, NOTHING. Why would ANYTHING happen to Democrats if Hillary Clinton continues to run. It's only if she wins that the garbage will be brought to light. The same shit happens if Obama wins, too.

Give your head a shake, will you?

[60TrenchesGone]

52. To answer your question...

Why would ANYTHING happen? Because the party is as much an organization and an operation with a public front to present. If Hillary's desperate last gasps bring the party to a civil war over her attempt to clutch at the throne, Democrats as a whole will suffer and Obama will be seen as part of a divided group that is not cohesive or organized enough to handle the largest office in the land. Or worse her attempt to win at all costs could succeed.