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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:39 AM
Original message
The Obama Republicans
In 1960, when members of the Screen Actors Guild struck over the issue residuals from motion pictures being broadcast on television, SAG President Ronald Reagan was the chief negotiator for the union. The target of the strike was MCA, the company that owned Reagan’s program “General Electric Theater” and of which Reagan was a producer. So Reagan was simultaneously representing union members against MCA while he was, in fact, clandestinely on MCA’s payroll.

The deal that Reagan brokered literally gave away the residuals for every motion picture ever made prior to 1960 – and it cost actors millions in forfeited income. The big payday for Reagan came a few years later, when studio heads purchased 236 acres of real estate from Reagan at a price of $1.93 million dollars – even though the land appraised at only $900,000. It pays to have wealthy friends and no conscience.

Why bring up the activities of a crooked union president nearly fifty years after the fact? Because Ronald Reagan is, and will always be, the embodiment of the modern conservative movement. The Republican Party has spent the past thirty years pretending to represent the interests of average Americans, while simultaneously on the payroll of corporate interests.

A truck driver in Storm Lake, Iowa votes Republican because the Republicans are the party of “family values,” but his wife ends up waitressing part-time because his salary can no longer pay the bills. And so their kids are left home alone after school three days a week. An factory worker in Lima, Ohio votes Republican because the Republicans are strong on defense, but he was laid off from his job at the Lima Tank Plant three years ago, and there aren’t any other factory jobs available.

Meanwhile the Republican Party, while feigning outrage over “government regulation and high taxes,” quietly slashes taxes for CEO’s and provides tax breaks to corporations that ship manufacturing jobs overseas. With the “culture wars” serving as a convenient diversion, working-class Americans have hardly noticed that their standard of living has declined from the moment that conservative policies because their ascent.

This might have gone on forever had the conservatives not overplayed their hand. The invasion of Iraq, which was nothing more than a gas station hold-up gone bad, got working class Americans (whose sons and daughters make up the bulk of our armed forces) thinking that maybe something wasn’t quite right. Saddam was toppled. Saddam was executed. And still their kids kept coming home in government coffins.

And then Katrina very nearly wiped out the City of New Orleans, and the government seemed utterly incapable responding to an emergency. And then there’s the deficit. He might not be a Wall Street economist, but the tool-and-die worker in Sheboygan knows a bad idea when he sees one – and $5 trillion in debt over the past six years looks like a pretty bad idea. The country is on the wrong track, but what do the Republicans offer: Stay The Course.

It shouldn’t come as any surprise that Barak Obama is getting support from people who previously regarded themselves as Republicans. They’ve been lied to for a generation now, and they’ve just now come to the realization that the people they trusted have sold them out. They’re learning just now that the Republican Party never cared for working people, small towns, hard work, and family values. And they’re looking for new allegiances.

I keep reading posts that these new voters will destroy the Democratic Party, and I couldn’t agree less. These are people who should have been voting Democratic all along, and were it not for thirty years of careful and effective propaganda, they would have. These people might not be as liberal as some (most) of the people here on Democratic Underground, but they’re still new to this business of voting Democratic. They’ll come around.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent Post. Many here still don't get it and say Obama will "compromise" when the reality is
he will "convince" working Republicans that they should be voting Democratic.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes. It's a HUGE distinction...
Convincing former-Republicans that WE are the party that represents their best interests is entirely different than changing our core values to get their votes. Obama (and Hillary) are giving people a meat-and-potatoes Democratic agenda and people are responding to it.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Just like that? Sounds so simple. It's a miracle!
:eyes:
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. But it IS that bloody simple!
That's why I like John Edwards so much... He proved that you don't have to blow smoke up people's asses to prove that they should be voting Democratic. Obama gets it, too. And Hillary is finally realizing it also (better late than never).
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. The fact is ...
MANY Rs KNOW a lot of what the origional post noted ... But, they don't like ONE bit when it gets thrown in their faces and they just dig their heels in ...

Pride, whatever ...

I know it is VERY hard for me to not lay out the facts and expect people to deal in reason ... MOST Ds and progressive just expect people to THINK about it and deal with things from a rational standpoint ... But, this approach fails time and time again ...

Obama's greatest gift is his ability to know what negative reverberations will be generated, and knowing how to say things in a manner that won't get the pride of those on the right engaged ...

The lifeline he throws out to them is not telling them how foolish they have been in supporting Rs all along ... It doesn't have to be a direct statement, just what, again, even to me would be a rational comparison, can get Rs to tune you out ...

The opening is there right now ... Just hold the door open and let them walk in ...

Hill ... Look, you can place blame either way, but the reality is that the right hates her with a complete and irrational passion ... There is nothing she can do or say that will allow for any of the 30 percent or so to do anything other than resist her to their dying days ...
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Excellent analysis.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Could not agree more...
There are people on this board who are openly hostile to Republicans who want to change parties, or expect some kind of public mea culpa before they'll be allowed into the club.

To put it in words the Christian Evangelicals would understand, "There will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

We ought to be especially proud when a lifelong Republican comes over to our side. It means that our ideas won.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
53. and we need to keep emphasizing that
These Republicans are coming to Obama, he's not selling out to them! They are simply realizing who's got their best interests at heart.

And like my father-in-law said, "I didn't leave the Republican party, they left me!"
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
43. Yup.
:thumbsup:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
63. Thank you, Cosmocat!
You've zeroed in on what I think Obama, himself, understands!
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
72. that's a fact
"MANY Rs KNOW a lot of what the origional post noted ... But, they don't like ONE bit when it gets thrown in their faces and they just dig their heels in ..."


I have a friend like that. Complains about health care etc etc. Brags up Republicans but knows they screwed up, and whenever I give him facts about Dems being better than Rs on everything, he accuses me of hating Rs and pledges to vote and send money to them. It's wild.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. what he's doing is making it safe for them to vote in their favorite republican sen. or rep.
What incentive do they have to vote for a Democrat when Obama is promising to stroke the republican ones they've already sent there?
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
50. some DUers can't distinguish between republican voters and the corrupt party leaders
it's sick to lump them all in together. Those voters are victims of Republican policies too. And many voters are not quite as partisan or as political as members of an online political forum.

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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #50
88. The difference between the Con Man and his Mark...
Republican voters are (mostly) decent human beings who have been horribly duped. They deserve better than what they've been getting - and we're going to give it to them.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
90. Republicans wont vote for Obama anymore that they would for Clinton
Even Bill Clinton got 15% of the republican vote in 96. This whole issue is based on, 'cuz Obama saya so."

This is just so deluded on so many levels, empty headed slogans as reality...
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #90
93. Yup, but don't let facts get in the away of the power of hype and marketing
Even Kerry got 6% of the rethug vote (Bush got 11% of the Dem vote) and won the independent vote.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #90
98. Republicans won't vote for Obama...
Then you state that 15% voted for Clinton.

Which is it? In 2004, there was a Republicans for Kerry yard sign in my neighborhood. The guy who worked with me on Election Day driving elderly Democratic voters to the polls was a former Republican.

Has the stench of conservative policy gotten that much better during the past five years? Bush has a 19% approval rating and John McCain is runnong on a platform of "Four More Years."

I think the Democratic nominee -- Hillary or Obama -- is going to see some significant Independent and Republican support. More than what Bill received.
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Yurovsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. Hell yes ...
things are 100% more f'd up than during any election since 1968.

War ... check (hell, we got TWO!)

Recession ... check

Energy crisis ... check

Health care crisis ... check

add to that skyrocketing education costs and the exporting of millions of high-paying jobs overseas, and you can bet your ass that a LOT of folks who considerd themselves Republicans or independents will vote for Obama. Nothing makes a Republican a Democrat faster than losing his/her job, especially when the GOP played a major role in shipping said job to India, China, etc.

I cannot fathom a scenario in which McCain can beat Obama in November. Just look at the voter turnout in the GOP primaries compared to the Democratic primaries. I think we'll see a landslide in November, akin to the 1980 49-state win by RR (only this time, the good guys win).
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. Republicans don't hate Obama...
That's the thing. The hardcore conservatives, those who don't like McCain, are likely to sit out the 2008 election if Hillary isn't the nominee. If she's on the ballot, they'll turn out in droves to make sure she never gets back in the White House. But Obama they're more ambivalent about. I'm really not so sure they don't see any difference between Obama and McCain, which is really a reflection of how much they hate McCain more than anything.

Among the Moderate Republicans and Independents, I see an attitude of, "Let's give the guy a sniff and see if he's for real." Those who vote Republican but aren't active partisans seem willing to give him a fair hearing.
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Malidictus Maximus Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
97. I know quite a few people who would love to vote Democratic
except for the gun issue. Democrats keep losing in areas where we SHOULD be winning because one faction of our party considers it the business of the state what a law abiding person keeps in their closet or on their person. I like Obama, I'd like him a lot more if he (or Hillary) repudiated the anti RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) stances of some Democrats.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Spot on!
Bookmarked.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. What a great post, and you are so right. Our tent just got bigger, and
that's okay by me!
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. yes yes yes yes yes ... he will do for Progressives what Reagan did for conservatives. n/t
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. Very Good Post
I am glad people are waking up to the fact a value party means more than being anti choice. I agree with all you say. The democratic party is the family values party and always has been.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. And props to Mike Huckabee...
He may be a right-wing nut, but he's also an economic populist. He's a Christian who actually paid attention to the Sermon on the Mount and all that "blessed are the meek" stuff. If Huckabee can convince Christian voters that there's more to be a Christian than homophobia and opposing abortion, he's creating an opening where even some evangelical Christians might be able to find a home in the Democratic Party.
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crawfish Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Uh oh.
Shame on you for acting reasonable about Huckabee. The personal attacks are sure to follow...

;)
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. It's problematic, to be sure...
Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 10:16 AM by Jeff In Milwaukee
Being opposed to abortion and gay marriage runs counter to basic Progressive values. But here's how I think we can "flip" at least some of these voters.

Abortion -- Make these folks understand that their efforts to date have not prevented any abortions. And even if they manage to outlaw abortion, they would have seriously eroded our constitutional rights and still not ended the practice. If you really want to do something that has been proven to reduce abortions, you should pursue economic fairness. When people have decent jobs and decent healthcare and childcare benefits, they have fewer unintended pregnancies and fewer abortions. We proved that during the Clinton years. Stop waiving a picture of a bloody fetus on the street corner and start doing something constructive to improve the lives of people in your community. God will love you for it.

Gays -- Get to know somebody who is gay or lesbian. Seriously. Most of the people who don't like gays (and gay marriage) don't have any gay friends. Once these folk are part of your social circle, you realize that they're just like everybody else. They've got car payments to make and their boss is a pain in the ass and where in the hell did all those dandelions come from?

It won't be any easy process, and not all former right-wing evangelicals will want to make the journey (some are genuinely batshit crazy). But some of these folks have the ability to see the light, and we should help them along the way.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
54. I've said these things to my conservative parents
but haven't made any headway. But they are seniors and not about to change.

But the young Evangelicals are a different story. I saw something on Nightline I think it was. They are not so concerned about abortion or gay marriage. They care about poverty and human rights much more. Watch them peel away from the GOP and go for Obama too.

What a lot of these people were waiting for is simply a Democrat who gave them a welcome invitation to the party. And Obama did.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. My mom doesn't hate Obama...
and that really surprises me (scares me, really, could be a sign of the apocalypse). She doesn't like Hillary and doesn't really care for McCain. She prefers Huckabee (which doesn't surprise me), but it's just curious to me that she hasn't been more negative about Obama.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. Funny you should say that--
I just got off the phone with my parents, as it's my mom's birthday. They sounded really excited about the prospect of an Obama presidency! Amazing. (yeah--looking for the apocalypse here too!)

Not that they voted for him--but if it "happens", they will be interested to see what he will do. I was telling them things like Obama's popularity goes beyond party--that it's becoming a movement, and they agreed. They are not excited about McCain and don't like Hillary, just like your mom. Obama is something new and they are interested. Said that Bush has been a "big disappointment" and that he is too stubborn to change.

My dad is scared that Obama's too liberal, but I pointed out that on healthcare, for example, Hillary is the one who is more "big government" on it with her mandates. And they both really like Michelle.
We also talked about Hillary's negative ads, and they agreed with me that Wisconsinites weren't stupid enough to fall for it and had reacted against what they saw as dirty politics.

I told them to watch for much more negativity about Obama coming up.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #66
86. Bill Press Show This Morning...
They were talking about how Obama doesn't "Fire Up" the Republican base, and with McCain as the nominee, they might be inclined to just sit this one out -- as opposed to if Hillary were on the ballot, where they would come out just to vote against her, even if they weren't thrilled about McCain. It's interesting. It's like a lot of Republicans have a "let's wait and see" attitude about Obama.

That being said, one has to wonder about the head-to-head polling that shows Obama beating McCain by 7-8 points. Given that respondants typically aren't give a "neither" option, it could be that Obama is much farther ahead among those who will actually vote.
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. I Don't Want To Shock Anyone
Not all evangelicals and fundamentalists are right wing nuts. I am disabled and do not get to work with the council of churches as much as I have in the past. When I first started volunteering at the food bank I was paired with the most fundamentalist Christian I had ever met. I am as progressive in my religious views as I am politically so I was wondering how it all would work out. She is one of the kindest older women I have ever met. We didn't talk politics because I was sure she was a Bush supporter and I couldn't have been more wrong. Right after the invasion of Iraq she very shyly asked me if I would like to come to an anti war demonstration. She dislikes Bush as much as any liberal although she uses a lot nicer words than most of us. She can tell you to go to Hades so nicely you have to think about what she said. My friend is not pro choice but she said there's a lot more to life and you must never support a candidate on one issue.

If the democratic party can attract more voters like my friend, it can do our party nothing but good.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. Not a shock at all....
2004 exit polls showed 25% of Christian Evangelicals voted for John Kerry. This is a group where we could be doing a lot better. If we can convince the pro-life voters that there's more to domestic policy than abortion, we're going to get a lot of votes.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
81. You are fortunate to have met her.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
60. Actually, some already have
Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 06:46 PM by KamaAina
he's creating an opening where even some evangelical Christians might be able to find a home in the Democratic Party.

Some already have. Case in point: Jim Wallis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Wallis

Raised in a traditional evangelical (Plymouth Brethren) family, as a young man Wallis became active in the civil rights movement. He graduated from Michigan State University, where he was President of Students for a Democratic Society and then went on to attend Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Illinois where he joined with other young seminarians in establishing the community that eventually became Sojourners....

In discussing the 2004 American presidential elections, Wallis said "Jesus didn’t speak at all about homosexuality. There are about 12 verses in the Bible that touch on that question ... there are thousands of verses on poverty. I don’t hear a lot of that conversation."

Wallis was invited by Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) to give the Democrats' weekly radio address on Saturday, December 2, 2006. He spoke about the importance of moral leadership in Washington, and touched on a variety of social concerns. In February 2007 he wrote in Time about the post-Religious Right era and the resurgence of mainstream Christianity, with evangelicals "deserting the Religious Right in droves".


edit: emphasis
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
87. economic populist only
This is a guy that believes that women should graciously submit to their husband's sacrificial leadership.

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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. Actually...
If you look at the Populist Movement as it existed in the United States, it wasn't exactly culturally liberal. When Pat Buchannan called himself a Populist back in the early 1990's, a lot of people laughed -- but he was closer than you might think. Racism and Xenophobia were part of the deal. Sexism was less pronounced, however. The Grange Movement offered full voting rights to women.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. what a great post!
i, too, have failed to see what the problem is. if we are to ever get the things we want, we're going to have to cross the aisle, and obama represents an opportunity to do just that. Unless we have a filibuster proof majority in Congress, whoever the President is will have to work with the opposition to get anything done for the American people.

Recommended.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. what I like is that he won't be stereotyped.
Listening to him I hear original ideas, not just the same old liberal mantras. Progressive, certainly--but the lack of cliche probably helps draw in the Indies and Repubs. He offers a refreshing new start for this country.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. To be fair to Hillary...
She would probably be getting some of this support if the right wing had not spent the past fifteen years demonizing every aspect of her personal and political life. It's one thing for a former Republican to vote Democratic, but it's another thing to vote Democratic and for Hillary.

Can a Packers fan EVER root for the Bears? No. It's something like that.
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BOWHUNTR Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Reagan Dems
"I keep reading posts that these new voters will destroy the Democratic Party, and I couldn’t agree less."
Jeff I agree. They will only strengthen the Dem party. Maybe bring them more to the center.

"These are people who should have been voting Democratic all along, and were it not for thirty years of careful and effective propaganda, they would have."
I agree with the first part of this but I would disagree with the reason. I think the vast majority of "Reagan Democrats" could see the Dem party slipping ever further into the left abyss. Fact is the Dem party is ruled by the extreme left. It is a shame the Dem party has been hijacked by the far left folks.

"These people might not be as liberal as some (most) of the people here on Democratic Underground, but they’re still new to this business of voting Democratic. They’ll come around."
I think they will if the members of Congress distance themselves from and loosen the grip from the daily Kos crowd, Moveon.org crowd.

There is a lot to like about Obama and a lot to dislike about Hillary. I will be voting Obama in the march 4 primaries. I am sick of the Clinton's and the Bushes. I want them to go away for good. 10 straight now for Obama. :)
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I'm glad you're supporting Obama, however...
As a dues paying member, I disagree with your assessment about MoveOn & Kos. But welcome to DU
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. I've never understodd the phrase "Far Left"
Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 10:32 AM by Jeff In Milwaukee
Is demanding equal justice for every single American a "far left" idea?
Is demanding a fair economy and fair taxation for every single American a "far left" idea?
Is protecting the environment a "far left" idea?
Is using diplomcy, and not just the military, to protect our country a "far left" idea?

And if it is Far Left, what's the problem with that?

On Edit: Welcome to DU!
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Thank you J.I.M., you are on fire today.....
:toast:
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Back At You!
:yourock:
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BOWHUNTR Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Well
Jeff I wpould not say that those are far left ideas.

However. Perception is reality. When the average Joe looks deeper into those ideas that both the right and the left desire he sees something he does not like. Now I am not saying its right or wrong. I'm just saying a lot of things the far left would like to do does not sit well with Reagan Dems.
To more specifically answer your questions:
1. Where is not every single American getting eaqual justice?

2. Fair taxation for me would be to do away with the IRS and go to a consumption tax. Those that spend the most pay the most. That is as fair as it gets.

3. Protecting the enviroment is a right and left idea. The problem with the far left is they would like us all to go back to living like Indians. There has to be some common ground. Take nuke plants for example. We need more yet enviromentalist have made it to costly and build. France has got them coming out of their ears. The USA is way behind. They are a green alternative to conventional power.

4. Diplomacy, here again the left took that too far. Patting Kim Jong Ill on the popo and giving him Michael Jordan signed basketballs is not the answer. Having Osama Bin Laden in your crosshairs and letting him walk is not the answer. Diplomacy only goes so far. Europe tried it with Hitler and did not work. Now you have Achmedinajad speaking exactly as Hitler did. How much longer before he goes ape shit.

As a progressive you may not see these issues this way. But for the average guy, he does.

None of the candidates running for office right now are the answer to all these issues. It may take a revolution :)
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Answers...
Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 01:32 PM by Jeff In Milwaukee
Where is not every single American getting equal justice? How about in the court system? The sentencing guidelines for crack vs. cocaine are a prime example. The fact that the vast majority of prisoners on death row were represented by public aide attorneys -- as opposed to a legal "Dream Team." If you're rich enough in this country, you can avoid being held accountable for your actions. How many Enron executives have done jail time?

Fair taxes and Consumption Taxes? This is a shibboleth of the economic elitists who want to exempt themselves from the tax code. Nearly every analysis of the flat tax as proposed by Republicans would result in massive tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans and create a crushing burden on the middle class. We're talking about DOUBLING taxes on working people. You know why they call it "progressive taxation?" Because it's progressive!

Nuclear Is A Green Alternative? Spent nuclear fuel is toxic for about a quarter million years. Personally, I'd rather take my chances with Global Climate Change. I'm not sure who you think wants to "live like Indians" but I don't think it's Nancy Pelosi.

Europe tried that? Is the world every going to get over Neville Chamberlain? We had a choice before we invaded Iraq -- give the weapons inspectors time to do their job or go in with a half-baked "Coalition of the Willing." Clinton used diplomacy with North Korea, and they mothballed their nuclear program. He used diplomacy with Iran, and they moved toward normal relations with us. Bush came in with his "Axis of Evil" talk and undid all that progress.

The "Average Joe" isn't looking deeper. The Average Joe is doing nothing more than repeating what he hears on Rush Limbaugh every day and assuming that it must be true. What's you've got here is called a "strawman" argument, and it goes like this: Create an position that nobody would agree with (Let's All Live Like Indians) and then accuse another person of holding that position. Then courageously argue that they're wrong. The Far Left wants Osama Bin Laden as dead or as in prison as the rest of America and to suggest otherwise is nothing short of slander.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. geez..sounds like you'd be more closely aligned with say....
Ron Paul? I don't like to call out newbies on their low post count, but you can understand how we're pretty suspicious of new posters who post right wing talking points.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent read!
Spot on.

Describes a lot of folks I know.
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insanity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. I had friends work in the Republican Primary
Had their first choice lose and are now working for Obama.

The message is transcendent, and honestly the reason why so many people support him is because he says things that simply make sense.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. Most will go back to being McCain Republicans in November. n/t
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Some will...
There are those Republicans who voted for Obama because they wanted what they believe to be the weaker candidate to win, and they have no intention of voting for him in the General Election. But I think these folks are a minority of the cross-over voters. Another thread by VolcanoJen in Cincinnati noted that the Obama Headquarters is seeing lots of visits from former Republicans who are volunteering for his campaign.

Now I lived in Cincinnati back in 2000, and many of us picked up a Republican ballot and voted for McCain in the Ohio Primary in an attempt to derail Bush (Gore had already locked up the Democratic nominiation by then). Sure, we voted for McCain. But did we go down to McCain Headquarters and volunteer? No Way! These are real supporters. Real converts.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. The republican party will drive most of them back with their campaign
besides, many are just meddling in our primaries as sport or strategy to advantage their republican nominee.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. I don't think so...
Roughly half of the voters voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004 (yeah, yeah LESS THAN HALF, but not by much). His current approval rating is about 30%. That means that 20% of the voters, all of whom voter for Bush (TWICE) would not rather somebody else were in the White House.

What McCain is offering voters is essentially a third term for George W. Bush.

Will some of those voters blindly vote Republican? Absolutely.

Will some of them say, "Enough is enough!" and vote Democratic? Absolutely.

The extent to which the next election is a generational re-alignment of the electorate remains to be see. But we can all do our part to nudge it the right direction.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
51. Do you have evidence of this? An organized effort by the RNC?
I think you give these people too much credit. "Republican voters" are just people. I don't think they are that conniving. Many of them are not quite as political or partisan as you and I.

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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. The anecdotal evidence in Wisconsin...
would suggest that Republicans crossed party lines. Some because they really didn't like the Republican choices and some just to be malicious.

The thing is, there's no evidence of a coordinated effort to "Vote Hillary" to keep Obama from getting the nomination, or vice versa. I'm sure the more tactical ones voted for Hillary, as she appears to be the loser in head-to-head polling with McCain. But I think some people are so eaten up with hatred of the Clintons that they may have voted for Obama just to deny Hillary the chance to ever be nominated.

I don't think we'll know that true picture until after the General Election.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #52
71. Evidence is there
Right wing talking heads have been pushing this for several weeks. I've heard Limbaugh, Dick Morris, Laura Ingram and Ann KKKoulter all encourage Republicans to cross over in order to disrupt the Dem elections.

My personal take is that they are setting up an explanation for the statistics on defection that they KNOW their remaining zombies are going to hear.


I can also offer some anecdotal evidence of my own. From a previous post:

...after a 4 hour chat with my neighbor. She is a 6o+ year old widow who must work, is active in her fundamentalist church, and who voted for Bush in the last 2 elections. She has come to the conclusion that her support of the GOP has not been positive for either her, her faith, or the nation. She strongly questions whether the social issues that motivated her decision making are really things that can be addressed through government action. She asserts that the economic failures of the Republicans (jobs, health care, stagnant earnings, etc) and their cynical use of the religion have turned her unequivocally away from the Republican party. She spoke of Edwards' message regarding the emphasis Jesus placed on the poor and meek.

Initially I thought she was pulling my leg and following Limbaugh's advice to push for Obama, but after speaking as long as we did, I simply don't believe that is the case. She argued pretty passionately against the actions of the GOP; she seemed genuinely and extremely offended as she echoed many of the criticisms of David Kuo.

There was only one qualification to her position - No way would she support Hillary. She says she will vote for Obama if he is the nominee, but if Hillary wins my neighbor says she will stay home and not vote....
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/kristopher
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. Appears that there is still some wheat here. K&R
Obama provides the cover to do what these voters really want to do. With Clinton, most will probably just stay home.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
26. Well put, you can't beat down people and smile at them forever...nt
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. very well written editorial.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
28. Let me tell you about the Obama Republicans in my village.
Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 10:51 AM by Skidmore
I live in Iowa, a state which I am proud to say set Barack Obama on his journey. I live in a fairly conservative county, and in my village (population of 204), the Democratic party was represented by me and my husband, another couple our age (we're all Boomers), and an elderly couple (the wife died last year and the husband has Alzheimers now and is in a nursing home). So there were four of us. The rest of the adults in the village were longstanding registered Republicans. When Barack came to the local meeting hall in the next village over, we went to see him thinking that it would be us and the handful of Dems from each of the few towns in our very rural county. Boy, were we wrong. There was a crowd of 500 crammed into a little hall with people standing outside in the cold, and it was cold and rainy that day. These people came on a cold evening on a workday and sat in an unheated hall and listened to Barack. I saw many of the people who showed up who had frequently spoken of Dems with disdain sitting in that audience, listen with attentivelness and nod their heads in agreement. I watched them rise to their feet in unison to applaud. Barack, contrary to popular rumor, took questions--for 45 minutes he answered questions about everything from education to the war to rural issues.

A few weeks after his visit, it was time for the caucus and we and the other couple went together. This time both the Republican and Democratic Party caucuses were held in the same room and in different corners. There was a huge turnout of historical numbers. I chuckled with my friend as we noted that the 35 or so people on the Republican side tended to be evangelical ministers or the county lawyers or the corporate farm owners. I watched the old family farmers with weatherworn faces and rough hands and some of the factory workers who had voted Republican for decades come and stand on the Democrats' side of the room. When we started separating into groups for the head count, those farmers separated out between the candidate groups. As candidate viability was determined, those whose candidates were not viable redistributed themselves. Barack had the most support in the end, with Edwards second, and Hillary third. Afterward, we stood around in groups talking, and when the Republicans were done several came over to greet us. We were teasing them about the low turnout on their side of the room. One of them chuckled and told us that they still might be joining us. When we asked what he meant, he told us that if Huckabee were to win the R nomination, they would vote for Obama if he were our candidate because he was the one Democrat that was being honest about the problems. Well I've talked to several of them recently, and guess what, they are planning to vote for Barack in the general election anyway at this point.

For one, I am happy to see these people come to our side. The community really is talking about issues in broader terms, and not focusing on narrow ideological views. This creates an atmosphere in which work can be accomplished. I'm game for it, too.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Awesome Story!
nt
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
34. Most of your post reminded me of "What's the matter with Kansas" wonderful book
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
35. He might be wooing Repubs on the ground, but he'll be acquiescing to the power structure on the Hill
His messages, carefully phrased (What Obama Really Meant) are designed to, on the one hand, appeal to those who still think politicians might care more about citizens than about maintaining power; and, on the other hand, send a clear message to the GOP Powers That Be that he is willing to compromise to their agenda, not the agenda of the Democratic party.

The Democratic party has been shifting more and more to the right as a result of the uncompromising, unflinching, uncaring agenda of the Republicans. I don't think there's a Democrat alive who can make them give an inch. Those aren't starry-eyed or "hopeful" people in power on the Hill. They're robber barons. All they think of when they see a Democrat is, "Yum, another feast."
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. The voters can make them give an inch...
Rick Santorum is out of the Senate, as are a host of lesser conservative harlots. We're going to get a larger majority in both the House and the Senate next time, and it's going to be clear to those Republicans who remain that they can either work with us or get tossed in 2010.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
37. very well said
thanks for posting.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
38. The main thing we got to do to get more progressive is every car must have a Novamradio sticker
and a headon radio.com sticker too.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
42. Excellent post
factual and even-handed to explain this phenomena. I hope you don't mind if this gets spread around.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
44. Potential problem
Will the Republicans crossing over to vote Democratic for the office of POTUS be voting for Democrats for Congress if there are seats up for vote in their states? If they continue to vote Republican for Congressional seats, Obama is going to have a hard time getting legislation passed and his SCOTUS nominations (if any) approved.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Good Point
Every seat in the House is up for grabs. Over the past three years, the DNC has been working hard to create a more solid infrastructure for congressional candidates. So if we have good candidates, I think we can count on getting at least some of those votes. And given the trend that started in 2006 (and the flurry of retiring Republicans), I'm very confident that President Obama will have a solid, possibly even filibuster-proof, majority.

I have to tell you. That last sentence was the first time I've ever actually typed the words "President Obama."

Felt pretty good...
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
74. That's where the 50-state strategy pays off
Instead of writing off these voters, we should be engaging them. I think that Obama will have huge coattails, especially if the campaign, with the cooperation of Dean and the DNC, works towards convincing the voters to vote for Democrats in Congress as well as for Obama. But when you ignore them from the start, you guarantee that these voters will never vote Democratic.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #74
91. Neighborhood Leader Program
If you haven't signed up for this critical program, please do so. It works like this.

As a Neighborhood Leader, you agree to make contact with 25 of your neighbors (Democrats, Independents and Recovering Republicans) three times between now and Election Day. That contact could be a phone call, it could be a knock on their door, or some other kind of contact (I'm having a cookout in June). The point is to engage your neighbors, make sure that the DNC knows what their issues are, and to make sure that they vote in November.

It's not a huge time commitment, and the DNC will have materials and training to support your efforts. This is grassroots party-building. Please sign up.

www.democrats.org
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
49. Excellent post - Thank you
We have an opportunity for real change, that the majority can get behind.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
55. I agree entirely.
I want all their votes.

Obama's promise is that of grateful and gracious acceptance of these wayward sheep. The OP is spot on when remarking that these mainstream Americans should have been voting Democratic all along. We must remember, as Obama does, that they're Democrats at heart. We must treat them as such--with respect (or, at least, with as much respect and tolerance as we can muster).

This must be a big tent.

:dem:

-Laelth
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
56. one more reply from me to this interesting thread:
In 2004 when Barack Obama spoke about "not blue states, not red states, but the United States" it kind of put me off--or confused me to say the least. I was so used to thinking in terms of "us" v.s. "them" that it seemed like he was capitulating to the "enemy". I was so used to hating the Bush Regime that I couldn't see any point in calling off the siege mentality.

But I see now where he is coming from. He sees the people as not divided at all, but as all one people who want the same things. It's the leadership we've had in this country which as run to the right and scared so many of us into going along. And the rest of us hated them for it.

Truth be told, probably 70% or more of this country would get behind a President Obama. The rest won't, but they won't be able to stop good things from happening. I'm sure FDR had his share of haters, too, as he began to clean up after the Hoover Administration.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. spin spin spin the fact is those republicans will NOT be there to vote for St Obama in Novemebr....
and his dirty politricks will come and bite him in the ass ...IF he gets the nom


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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. That's really not for you (or anybody else) to say...
The polling right now shows that Obama is beating McCain among independent voters, and he's winning a clear majority and indisputable majority overall -- something no candidate since Jimmy Carter can claim. The source of the majority is a lot of voters who previously voted for Bush. So some of these voters will, in fact, be there in November. You can only fool people for so long. And what we're seeing here is the end of the conservative era.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #57
84. How low can one politician go?
Apparently pretty danged low.

This makes me sick.

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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
61. People dumb enough to belive Bush/GOP lies
are going to have a lot to learn about Democrats. We don't suffer fools as gladly and we don't choose candidates because of their "celebrity" appeal.
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Werd. That's why Hillary is dropping fast. Name recognition is nothing compared to message.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #61
75. Doesn't Hillary claim that she believed Bush's lies in voting for IWR in 2002?
ahem...
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
62. "a gas station hold-up gone bad"
Excellent framing of the picture!
Best description of the war on Iraq I have ever heard.

Recommended reading!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. Very good essay. Thank you.
K&R. Just one thing: his name is spelled "Barack".
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bagimin Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
67. Now we're talkin
good job my friend.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
68. I could kiss you!
I've been battling this argument for months now, though not nearly so articulate as you have stated it. Thank you for your post!
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #68
89. If I had known I'd get that reaction...
I would have shaved first! :)
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
69. Great post - K&R n/t
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
70. The difference between "born again" and "evangelical" is important.
It is discussed here with reference to polling data that shows differences in beliefs and voting action.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=339530&mesg_id=339530
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trthnd4jstc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
73. A friend says that Obama's Numbers are Republican Voters...
destroying Clinton's chances, and because Obama has not been vetted, and he is inexperienced, he will be destroyed by the Republican Media. It is interesting how the Republicans call it the Librul Media, when there is a ratio of 17 to 1 Right Wing to Left Wing talking heads on the Media.
Even if Obama wins because of the Republicans voting for Obama in the Primaries in order to destroy Clinton's candidacy, is there a chance that Obama, as well as our Senate, and House candidates will do well in the General Election? I will do everything in my power to support the Democrats in November. I hope Obama choses well for his Vice President. I also hope that Obama starts campaining for the Democratic Senate, and House candidates.
Moreover, in the 19th District of Illinois, it seems the Republicans destroyed the Primary run of an electable Democratic candidate, Joe McMenamin. Instead Daniel Davis won, who is not even actively campaigning. I have e-mailed him, and I think that he may be a Republican Shill. The Greens have a candidate, Vic Roberts running. Is there a way to get the Democratic Party to back Vic Roberts so that we can defeat John Shimkus, or if Daniel Davis is not a Republican Shill, and simply does not know how to run a campaign, can someone kick him in the ass to get him to start fighting to win against Shimkus. Shimkus must be defeated.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
76. Reagan the Snitch
During his presidential debates, Reagan made hay of the fact that he was president of his own trade's union, the Screen Actors Guild. What he didn't announce, was that he was a snitch against the rank-and-file for J. Edgar Hoover during the Red Scare witch hunts.
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
77. Nice Post Jeff!
I could not agree more! :)
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jason_13 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. That was pretty great
It's been awhile since I read a positive post here. I think that you hit the nail on the head. Often I hear and read the rumors that Republicans are just voting for Barack because a) they don't want Hillary to become our next president and b) because Barack can't win. I work with many upper class seniors. I hear them often talking about not knowing who to support Barack or McCain and it gives me the same "nice" feeling this column has. Thanks.
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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
79. WOW! Excellent analysis and spot on from what I hear from my republican relatives and friends!
They will be there for Obama this November, at least most of the ones I know. They some how missed the secret conference for all republicans about how to vote and decided to vote for Obama because they liked him. Go figure, eh??

Still got a hold-out though for the general, but they will probably change after seeing what McDud has been up to lately.

Texas coming home to Obama!!
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
80. Schwarzenegger Republicans.
Pro-choice.
Pro-stem cell research.
Pro-job fairness.
Pro-budget watching.
Pro-freedom of religion.
Pro-environment.
Anti-whining.
Anti-blaming.

This is the FDR-Democrat branch that we've lost, and are now regaining.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
82. That triggerred an almost forgotten memory about Reagan, SAG, and MCA.
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 04:29 AM by pnorman
Going by the above, here's what I was able to Google so far: http://www.moldea.com/Four-12.html

That ties in nicely with something I was planning on posting on my union BBS.Thanks!

pnorman
On edit: I had only read the first part of the original post, before heading off on that Google quest about Reagan. But reading the entire thread, I can thank you for the entire post. Once again, THANKS!
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
83. MY FAVORITE JOKE--------->
A parade passes by a small boy with a carton stands at the curb.
President Dubya sees the boy and looks into the box...
"Hey Little-Boy, whatcha got there?"
"Puppies"
"What kind of puppies?"
"Republican puppies Mr President"

Dubya is so excited he returns the next day with The Twins...

"Hey girls check out the box... Hi Little-Boy... let my daughters see whats in the box"
"Sure...I got puppies"
"What KIND of puppies, Little-Boy, tell them what kind"
"Democrats Mr President"
"Democrats? Yesterday you told me they were Republicans!!!!"
"Yes Mr President--- but today their eyes are opened"


---------------------w00h00!!!! 19 per cent..... Nixon resigned at 24%
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
85. Helluva post.
The last paragraph sums up my thoughts on these voters as well.

K&R
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
94. "Obamacons." Are they converts to the progressive cause or converts to the greatness of St. Obama?
Who do you think they are going to vote for down-ticket, assuming Obama can match Bill Clinton and win 15% of the rethug vote?
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. Depends on who is down-ticket...
These folks are coming over to our side because they're tired of having their jobs shipped overseas and having their kids' tuition go through the ceiling. They're tired of corporations running this country and getting left with nothing in return for their vote.

Note to the Candidates down-ticket: If you want to woo a significant number of Independents and Republicans, this is the message you want to use.

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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
95. Some history I did not know. One more reason I can't stand Reagan
Well written Jeff. Thank you.
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
99. Outstanding post, Jeff. Can't R (too late), but here's a K.
I just hope it's not too late. When Joe Lunch-bucket finally catches on, the Other Side might be laughing all the way to the bank. (The one in the Cayman Islands, or Bermuda, or God only knows where.)
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
101. Obviously, you've missed this article.....
http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Winter08/2008Election.html

Karl Rove
Bamboozling the American electorate again

In which we learn many things about all those GOP votes....and how O's speechwriter is the brother of the FOX News VP (who was there manipulating the 2000 election results)...and how big Bush fundraisers filled Obama's coffers early on...
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. Utter Crapola...
It's the internet at its worst. Thinly-sourced drivel from somebody who desperately wants to stop Obama. One of the speechwriters is the brother of a Fox New VP? So what? Everybody is somebody's relative. Radio Host Stephanie Miller (a vocal Obama supporter) is the daughter of Barry Goldwater's running mate in 1964. Care to spin some cock-eyed conspiracy theory about that?

The charge about fundraisers has no references other than a link to a Time article, which explains that one former Bush fundraiser is "tired of the neanderthal politics of the GOP" on subject like stem cell research, and another who told his clients that he would not work against Obama in the general election if he were the Democratic nominee.

All of which supports the point of the OP. Many Republicans are seeing the light.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. Really....I just read that it's happening again in TX.....
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