Is it possible that people are just TIRED of The Clintons?

[Armstead]

There may be nothing more mysterious in the primaries than a simple possibility.

Perhaps a significant number of people are just tired of the Clintons? Perhaps on a gut level, people are just burned out on them.

Yes Bill Clinton was a popular president among Democrats. But the picture was more complicated than that. Liberals felt demoralized by their centrism and conservatives just plain didn't like them. And by the end of his term, even moderates were ready for a change. Remember Clinton Fatigue?

Ever since their entry onto the national stage was accompanied by Jennifer Flowers we had eight years of marital melodrama, polarizing personal battles between Republicans and Democrats over nothing much, Bill's looseness with the truth, Hillary as a lightening rod...etc.

And despite the fortunate bubble of high-tech in the late 1900's, people are seeing the chickens come home to roost over the philosophies of neoliberal (conservative) "free trade," and corporate loving centrism.

And in the aftermath of 2000, under the approach of the Clintons and the DLC we saw a party that basically rolled over and played dead while GW and the GOP plundered the country, sent us into idiotic military adventures and stole our civil liberties.

Maybe Hillary is just in the wrong place at the wrong time in this election.

[Eurobabe]

1. Uh, fuck yeah.

[Cha]

53. Couldn't imagine why?

clinton fatigue after 16 fucking years..who'd a thunk it?

[CTD]

2. Ya think?

[ORDem]

3. Ya think? n/t

[adabfree]

4. HELL TO THE YEAH!!!!!!!

[NightWatcher]

5. ding ding, no more posts we have a winner (Clinton-Fatigue)

I'm not sexist or any other 'ist' I am just suffering from Clinton-Fatigue

[DangerDave921]

13. Fuckin-A Brother!

God if I have to hear any more about Monica, travelgate, Vince Foster, Hillary's health care fiasco, the Republican surge in '94, the Lincoln bedroom, selling secrets to the Chinese, ad infi-fucking-nitum, I will go crazy.

Look, the 1990's were a fine time for this country. But enough is enough. I can't imagine having Bill back in the white house for the next eight years. It will feel like a time warp.

[XemaSab]

31. You forgot Marc Rich

:P

[DangerDave921]

39. Thanks!

Forgot that one. :)

[FarCenter]

54. And Hugh and Tony Rodham

The fun-loving brothers of Hillary Rodham Clinton.

They were also feeding at the pardon trough -- got $400K for obtaining a Presidential pardon for a client at the end of Bill's second term.

[Hart2008]

6. What was your first clue? n/t

[Avalux]

7. That's part of it. There is a movement underway the Clintons have had their day.

I know Hillary has not been President and her election would be historic, but it's extremely difficult for her campaign to promote her as a change candidate when she has been around so long and has essentially been running for Prez for 7 1/2 years.

This country is hungry for a new beginning (it's palpable) and Obama fits the bill. Hillary doesn't.

If she had divorced Bill and called herself Hillary Rodham, I would have been more apt to support her.

[MADem]

28. Wow, how shallow of you

If she had divorced Bill and called herself Hillary Rodham, I would have been more apt to support her.


I imagine her husband and kid are glad she's not taking advice from the likes of you.

Is your middle name "Unforgiven?"

[Avalux]

32. lol - yeah, I am one of the meanest people on the planet.

:hi:

[skooooo]

8. oh hell yeah

[JackORoses]

9. Bon Voyage, Clintons...Parting is such Sweet Sweetness

[Perry Logan]

10. Almost certainly not. But it's a meme Clintophobes love to repeat.

They are as repetitious as parrots, those Clintophobes.

[GarbagemanLB]

21. Bush Clinton Bush Clinton! We need a Clinton to clean up after Bush! LOL

So pathetic. :rofl:

[Perry Logan]

26. And by the way, Big Bill was tied with FDR as most popular President of the 20th Century.

That's pretty good, with such a massive smear campaign going.

[GarbagemanLB]

41. and we all know Hillary = Bill, because she's been running on his record forever, right?!?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Reeks of Clintophobism to me.

:grr:

[Common Sense Party]

65. Irony, thy name is Perry Logan.

:rofl:

Your whole schtick is being a repetitious parrot, in your 10-minute-long onanistic video acid trips.

You take 10 minutes to say what could be said more intelligibly (and memorably) in 20 seconds.

LOL!

[Az_lefty]

11. Clinton fatigue is very real. Need to break bush/clinton cycle

[CatWoman]

12. One thing is for damn sure

I'll never get tired of you :)

:hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. I think people are tired of a lot of things.

Including, but not limited to, the Clintons.

[Beausoir]

15. More Freeper talking points. Gennifer Flowers...god.

Pathetic.

[GarbagemanLB]

23. Freepers support Hillary because she is the weaker candidate. nt.

[Beausoir]

29. Um, yeah. Sure.

[Hugabear]

34. Dude, have you listened to any RW talk radio?

They're practically salivating at the chance to take on Hillary in the general election. Even Rush has gone from defending Obama to now attacking him, tearing him apart. They want Hillary, they think that she'll be easier to defeat. They might be right, there aren't many candidates that people would go to the polls to vote AGAINST. Especially with McCain positioning himself as the war hero maverick.

[Armstead]

42. Critical of The Clintons = Freeper...

Okay, whatever floats your boat.

[FarCenter]

60. And Paula Jones?

And running guns to Honduras and cocaine to the US through Mena, Arkansas. Of course that was managed by Bush, the Elder. But Clinton had to know about it.

[endarkenment]

16. I've had enough.

That said, had Clinton actually been inevitable I would be supporting her right now. She would have been my fourth choice. Kucinich->Edwards->Obama->Clinton. I guess I've gotten used to settling for the next down my list, something some other folks here haven't had all that much experience with.

How about one nationwide instant runoff primary for all enrolled Democratic voters and unenrolled voters? Is there any reason we have to retain the current system?

[rsmith6621]

17. People Just Want To Know Who Their POTUS IS!!!!

....with Hillary you know that people will alway be in the back of their minds wonder...Is Hillary really running the show???...or is this a defacto 3rd term for Bill.

[DJ13]

18. "..in the aftermath of 2000, under the approach of the Clintons and the DLC.."

"......we saw a party that basically rolled over and played dead while GW and the GOP plundered the country, sent us into idiotic military adventures and stole our civil liberties."


Never forget that the seeds for the Patriot Act were sewn under Bill Clinton.

He tried getting a slightly less draconian version of the same legislation passed in his second term.

[DemzRock]

19. Yep...

But sadly they are also tired of them being attacked. Maybe the anti-Clinton lies have worked a decade late.

Also... being tired of Clinton also means being tired of what good they could do for the country. So sad.

[Armstead]

45. They can still do a lot for the country

She could be a good and powerful Senator. Bill could do his humanitarian work.

[ShortnFiery]

20. Yes, I'm SICK and TIRED of The Clintons' gamesmanship and dirty tricks.

The politics of "divide and conquer" have morphed into something so sick that The American People are saying, ENOUGH!!!

[VotesForWomen]

87. O.M.G. cuz O and other politicians don't do that kind of stuff? no wonder people call you guys naive

[randr]

22. Bill's reentry into the political field

was poorly timed, unnecessary, and unwanted by people sitting on the fence.
He only succeeded in reminding us of all the things we did not like about him.
It is unfortunate that the first woman qualified and with the potential to become the POTUS has to have such an albatross around her neck.

[DangerDave921]

Creepy

Does anyone else get the feeling that it looks like Hillary can't fight her own battles? I know she's one strong woman, but it almost subverts her strength as a woman to have her husband out there trying to score political points.

And the clumsy Jesse Jackson comment after South Carolina was a disaster. Bill should know better than to have such a tin ear.

[ronnykmarshall]

24. I'm already tired of Obama.

Sorry being a smart ass.

But you do have a point.

I think a big part of Hillary's fall is due to people wanting something different.

Sorry, I but I think Mr "Hope and Change" is nothing but hot air. But going from 8 years of listening to a stupid ass talk down to me, I guess listening to someone that has a nice speaking voice talking down to me is a nice change.

[Armstead]

47. If he's elected, I expect that there will eventually be Obama Fatigue too

But frankly, I think when the time comes he and his wife will take the hint and step aside for whatever comes next.

[Big Blue Marble]

25. That is part of it for sure.

I, also think that the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton thing gets a lot of people. We
really do want someone new to break us out of that pattern.

in addition, the idea that someone is to be elected based at least partly on her husband's
experience as president does not feel right to many either.

[GoldieAZ49]

30. Absofuckinglutely

turn the page forward not backwards

[oregonjen]

33. Yes!

Do NOT want a Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton dynasty!

[DemzRock]

35. Well...l

Well, right now you've got

Bush/Clinton/Bush...

I wouldn't mind

Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton...

But only if it stops there.

Don't want Jeb or someone popping up.

[carlotta]

36. Gore the Bore

That's what this discussion reminds me of. Back in 2000--"Al Gore is boring, who wants a boring president when we could have a guy you'd want to sit and have a beer with"?

Perhaps people do have Clinton fatigue, but that's not the basis on which we should be choosing our next President. We have MAJOR problems to be solved, problems that need immediate solutions. "Hope" won't fix them, not even "Change" will fix them. We need someone with a raging work ethic, experience in problem solving, and one who is a real fighter. There is no time to lose.

If you think that person is Obama, fine, then vote for him for those reasons. Not because you have Clinton fatigue.

[oregonjen]

44. Thanks for the advice that I won't follow

Clinton fatigue is a valid reason. With Bill chumming it up with Bush pere, I'm not sure I like the coziness. I have my reasons for whom I wish to vote for. My first choice didn't enter the race, my second choice dropped out, so my third is Obama. I'm entitled to be sick of the Clintons.

[roguevalley]

69. I think that is what bothers me the most, their closeness to Bush and

his family. They would be there in the mix, the bushes, and they will never be punished because the Clintons are almost family to them. If these people are ever to face judgement, it won't be done with the
clintons around.

Honest to god, I am so tired of it all.

[VotesForWomen]

89. yeah, bush was so much cooler than gore, and that's what counts. nt

[Perry Logan]

37. I think people just generally tired of ALL the familiar faces. This bodes well for Obama vs. McCain.

[Armstead]

50. You mean John "Get Off My Lawn!" McCain isn't a fresh face?

[Tatiana]

38. I know quite a few Texans who are just tired of the Clintons.

They are voting for Obama. Not that they think he's that different, but they don't want to see Bill in the White House.

[Muttocracy]

40. also didn't keep the Congress in Dem. hands

Has either Obama or Clinton talked about what they'd do to have a Congress to actually function? One thing about the Clinton years we don't want back is that problem. So much of the domestic agenda they push depends on Congress.

[melody]

43. I didn't vote for Bill in the primaries for the same reason I'm not backing Hillary

Too centrist to conservative -- too thick with the corporate whores.

But now, yes, I'm even more tired of all that.

[donheld]

46. It's not just possible, it's likely

They only make it worse by the very dirty campaign they are waging. It's been quite divisive and bitter.

[CarlWoodward]

48. I think

I think fatigue is probably one part of what's a very complex equation. I also think that some people, like me, are pushing back against the idea of another dynastic presidency. The thought of having the president come from just two families over a 28-year period (12 yrs of Bush, potentially 16 yrs of Clinton) just seems wrong.

[RememberWellstone]

49. Not I

I have'nt begun to get tired of "them"..they have been the only bright spot in this nation the last 20 years. Seriously.

[JimGinPA]

51. As Much As I Dislike Hillary...

(And I really do dislike her)I would still be supporting Obama regardless of who was still running. He was my first choice among the primary candidates.

[ozone_man]

52. Clinton fatigue.

That's exactly the problem with them. It's time to move on. They're so 1990's. :)

[adabfree]

56. Yeah...they need to hang it up..never knowing when to leave the party is not a good thing

They are yesterday...give it up, already..

No more Clintons. No more Bushes.

[OzarkDem]

55. GOP talking points and misogyny

The real reason many Obama supporters don't like Clinton is because she is a woman.

[NightWatcher]

57. is that the only reason, because she's a she?

I love broads, my mom's a chick

[godai]

58. Spoken like a true Clinton Crusader

That's got nothing to do with it. The real reasons are many and deeply held throughout the US.

[adabfree]

59. I don't like her husband either and he's a man...

It's just time to go...

Oh, is it possible many Clinton supporters don't like Obama because he's a man, or because he's black...

Oh no that can't be,....

[Armstead]

66. Um, I intentionally said The Clintons....Last I heard he is a male.

[rug]

61. It won't take 16 years to tire of the Obamas.

[tabasco]

62. You knew, when Bill said he didn't inhale, he was a liar.

He was a lovable liar and ten times better than a republican, but not the right guy to lead us out of this "conservative" nightmare in which we live.

[elixir]

63. I don't think your OP is true. After 8 years of bush, the country needs a leader like Hillary.

She's got the experience, smarts and people skills. I'm looking forward to watching her political career grow.

[babylonsister]

64. I am, and have been for awhile. nt

[IndianaGreen]

67. I think Bill Clinton's behaviour during the campaign reminded voters of the fatigue

they experienced after 8 years of tabloid government.

[CreekDog]

68. Yes it is totally possible.

I don't listen to Pearl Jam or Eric Clapton Unplugged anymore either. Nothing wrong with them, but it's not the 1990's anymore.

As for the Clintons, they don't seem to have changed their game from the 1990's. Mark Penn helped run the 1996 campaign and back then they kinda ditched the Democrats in Congress trying to secure a majority vote for Bill.

So, yeah I don't want them running things again, I feel like they didn't adapt to changes in the game and in the country. I don't want 51% incrementalist change and I don't want 60% agreement that we don't really do anything substantive so as to not be unpopular.

[gateley]

70. I'm just becoming tired of being embarrassed by a Democratic candidate's

smarmy tactics.

[Arugula Latte]

71. I've been hearing for years that Hillary would be our '08 nominee...

The prospect would always just ... deflate me. It made me feel dread, like ... "After all we've been through, now we've got to go back to the Clintons? Are you kidding me?"

[gateley]

78. When I heard that I was excited by it. She's smart and I loved the idea of

a woman as President.

I no longer am excited by that prospect. And she herself is responsible for my changing opinion of her.

[grace0418]

72. Clinton Fatigue exacerbated by Bush Poisoning.

I think most people have had enough Clintons and Bushes for awhile. Well, enough Bushes period.

[Afje]

73. Bill Clinton was a corporate president, and his

politics, especially NAFTA have come back to bite a lot of people in the ass. That is the baggage that Hillary has in her campaign.

[Quixote1818]

74. Most people I talk to feel the country would continue to be divided with her in office

simply because the Republicans despise the Clinton's with a passion. Nothing would get done because it would the the right against the left. They would try to stop everything she puts forward.

[OzarkDem]

77. GOP days of deciding are over

Pardon me if I don't defer to their judgments about any Dem leader, thanks. What they think about Clinton is irrelevant.

[here_is_to_hope]

75. Agreed n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

76. Not fatigue, it's hate.

People who claim to have Clinton fatigue are idiots.

[Armstead]

84. I don't hate 'em, but I'm tired of them

If that makes me an idiot, so be it.

[nancyr]

79. God, yes.

[WI_DEM]

80. Yes, tired of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton.

[DemVet]

81. Maybe we'll be tired of Obama in another ten years.

It's amazing how we eat our own around here.

[BeyondGeography]

82. Once you get out of the friendly confines of the Democratic Party, it's a nightmare for them

Thank goodness there was an alternative as strong as Obama, or we would have found that unhappy truth out the hard way.

[longship]

83. Call it what it is...

Bush --> Clinton Fatigue.

Please, let us have no more presidential dynasties. Is this not one of the major principles on which this nation was founded?

Go Obama.

BTW, there's no way I will vote for a Repug--I am a Yellow Dawg. However, I have some serious issues with presidential choices since the 1960's. The last candidate I really liked was RFK. We all remember what happened to him.

Right now I am an Obama supporter for the very reason that I cannot support dynastic rule. I just wish that John Edwards would have hung in there.

I just don't think that Hillary can beat McCain, regardless of the number of times he's had sex outside his marraige.

[PetraPooh]

85. It started that way, but they have personally proceeded to make it much worse.

[VotesForWomen]

86. sure, but that's hardly a good reason to make a political decision, one way or the other. nt

[nomorewhopper]

88. does anybody really want to deal with 8 more years of political warfare?

it's a HUGE issue

[VotesForWomen]

90. what does that have to do with hill vs. o? you think if o gets elected this stuff is going to stop?

jeezus, there's on born every minute.

[nomorewhopper]

91. im not saying this will stop BUT

if you don't realize that sentiment is a HUGE issue in this campaign, you're way out of touch

obama's "change" theme is almost entirely built around this concept. he's trying to build a broad coalition who want to change the tone and civility in washington. these people may have been former repugs, but they are sickened by the tactics nad lying of george bush.

you can argue that this won't ever happen, but it is surely a huge factor in this campaign.