Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Obama on Kosovo

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:27 PM
Original message
Obama on Kosovo
America awaits a "solution" to this situation by this presidential candidate.

Please Barack, no humming and hawing when asked for your response in tonight's debate.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Has Clinton released a statement?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. General Clark and Jamie Rubin,,,
are explaining the situation,,,
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Just heard Clark on MSNBC.
Obviously, he has a mastery of the facts considering his experience in the region.

But, I heard no solutions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. If I know Clark, I know he has solutions. Probably a Plan A, a Plan B. and a C for good measure.
And I'm sure he's communicated his thoughts to Clinton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. and unlike Iraq, I wonder if she'll listen?
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 02:04 PM by faithfulcitizen
:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Has Clark ever issued a statement on whether he would or would not have voted for the IWR?
I would like to take that into account. I respect him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Yes, Clark went before a govt hearing before the war
strongly against the war.
That is why I supported him in 2004.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. Not just the war. Did he issue a statement on the IWR, itself?
(Even Kerry and Hillary issued strong statements against going to war, although they both voted for the IWR.)

Thank you, again. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. No, I mis-read.
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 04:39 PM by tabatha
I don't know about the IWR - but I would think he was against it.

On edit, this is from Wiki

Finally, he put out a budget plan that claimed to save $2.35 trillion over ten years through a repeal of the Bush tax cuts, sharing the cost of the Iraq War with other nations, and cutting government waste.<106> Clark had testified before the House Committee on Armed Services on September 26, 2002<107> that while he supported the Iraq Resolution he believed the country should try other options before the more immediate war President Bush had been calling for at the time, and this testimony was later used during his presidential campaign to portray Clark as pro-war although FactCheck called this a "classic case of ripping quotes out of their full context in order to create a false picture."<108> Clark testified before this committee again in 2005,<109> a hearing Dana Milbank of The Washington Post characterized as having a "different tune" as some of Clark's 2002 testimony that had been portrayed by some committee members as "fuzzy stuff" and "dumb clichés" had proven itself true in the ensuing two and a half years.<110>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. Thanks, tabatha. That's helpful info. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. He wrote an op/ed that was published a day or two before the vote
Telling Congress to wait for the inspectors to do their job. I think it appeared in Time magazine, but I might be misrembering that.

Later, in 2003, he was quoted as saying he "probably" would have voted for "the resolution," but later said he meant a different version that required Bush to come back to Congress before he could start anything. Clark caught a lot of flak for that statement from his opponents' campaigns, but I think it was just a rookie mistake. The interview took place the day after he announced his candidacy, and was conducted with Adam Nagourney who always has a sharp knife out for a Democrat.

The simple fact is, back in 2002 when the IWR was being considered, Clark wrote and spoke out against it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Thank you.
I wonder if he and Hillary had conversations about it. I would like for him to be her veep, if she is the nominee, or Sec. of Defense, if enough time has passed that he can take that position. Seems like there was a timeliness obstacle back in 2004.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. It still is
Clark retired from the military in the summer of 2000, so his ten years aren't up until mid-2010.

I'd like to see him be her VP too, but if she can pull this thing out, she may NEED to choose Obama as a running mate to keep peace in the party. But I think Clark would be a better choice for the nation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Clark would be a better choice.
But I think you're right about the VP slot and keeping peace. It would also slam-dunk guarantee probably 16 years of control of the White House.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Clark did a great job on MSNBC discussing it.
As expected from the Supreme Commander. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. Clark should be Obama or Hillary's running mate
I'm not kidding. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. He is an FP wiz.
I agree. He should be on the ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. I agree...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Yeah.. I'm trying to follow. So far.. Kosovo used to be the heart of Serbia, after the
war, most migrated out and left Kosovo with a 94% Albanian population. The Serbs are now protesting because they don't want Kosovo not to be a part of Serbia/Yugoslavia any longer (but these groups hate each other so I don't get it)

Its complicated and I'll have to start studying up again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
52. The Magistrate has an excellent post about this
from 4 years ago. It is well worth reading again and again:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1522940&mesg_id=1540550

The Unhappy History of Kossovo


One: Origin of the Quarrel

The clash in Kossovo of Arnaut and Vascian, as the peoples known to we moderns as Albanian and Serb were oft known in Ottoman days, differs from the usual run of Balkan bloodletting; it describes a real ethnic difference. Serb, Croat, Slovene, Montenegrin; all are Slavs, divided due to institutions only. Albanians remain in some proportion survivals of the old Dalmatian and Illyric peoples of Roman days, taken to craggy peaks for refuge from a tide of Slavic invasion commencing with the sixth century.

Medieval Albanian Catholicism offered further differentiation from Orthodox Serbs. The northeastern extension of the Albanian remnant, and the southern marches of the Serb, coincided roughly in modern Kossovo. Here the Serb Czar and Orthodox Patriarchite were able to exert authority the more atomized Albanian polity could not. After the death of the Albanian chieftain Skanderberg, and the Ottoman routing of Venice from the latter’s Adriatic lodgments, late in the fifteenth century, Albanians generally converted to Islam.

In Kossovo, this established local Albanians’ dominance over the Orthodox Serb peasantry, as the Ottoman gave landlord’s tenure only to Moslems. More enterprising or desperate Serbs migrated north; Albanians of similar motivation replaced them from the west. The locale remained poorly ordered, and a frequent theater for rebellion and consequent Ottoman suppression.

The catastrophe suffered by the Ottoman besieging Vienna in 1683 led to the swift seizure of Bosnia, Albania, and Serbia by Austrian and Bavarian Catholic armies. An Austrian force ventured into Kossovo in 1689, setting Albanian and Serb alike both to rebellion against the Ottoman and to battle against one another. The Austrians soon were routed at Nish. In Kossovo, the Ottoman killed every inhabitant they could lay hands on for days. Serbs fled north in great number, Albanians fled west.

With Ottoman authority reasserted, it was mostly Albanians who returned. These soon outnumbered the Serb survivors and progeny. Erection of an autonomous Serbia early in the nineteenth century enticed Kossovo Serbs to migrate north and acquire a freehold farm there. The Russo-Turkish War of 1877, which saw near collapse for the tottering Ottoman, was preceded and followed by Serb attacks.

These fell on Ottoman garrisons and Moslem inhabitants in the south of modern Serbia, culminating in the 1878 sack and firing of the Albanian quarter in Nish. Islamic refugees fled into Kossovo; Christians fled into Serbia for shelter from ensuing pogrom, and advancing Ottoman soldiery. The peace imposed by the Treaty of Berlin left Kossovo under unrestricted Ottoman rule.


Two: To the Yugoslav Monarchy

Albanian agitation for autonomy on modern terms within the declining Ottoman imperium began at Prizren in Kossovo, and at Istanbul. The Serb remnant in Kossovo were subjected to a wretched existence, without recourse from predation by landlord or hostile brigand. Early in 1912, declaration of an Albanian state ignited a successful rebellion in Kossovo against the Ottoman. In the Balkan War, pitting Slav and Greek against the Ottoman that autumn, Serbian armies struck south through Kossovo with great massacre against the Albanian populace. The Treaty of Bucharest in 1913 confirmed Serbia in possession of Kossovo.

During World War One, Austria-Hungary put Serbia’s army to flight in 1915. Albanians in Kossovo rose against the retreating Serbs with utmost savagery. The Serb soldiers replied in kind to fight their way through to the Adriatic, there embarking on French ships to tremendous Allied acclaim. Serb armies re-entered Kossovo from the south by the 1918 Armistice, and were bitterly resisted by Albanian rebels. The new Yugoslav monarchy with its Serb king did not succeed in breaking organized resistance till 1924 in Kossovo. Brigandage, and brutal reprisal, remained endemic to the locale.

The Serb monarchy of Yugoslavia superintended a determined effort to secure its rule in Kossovo. Land was stolen from Albanians as “undocumented,” and made available for Serbs who would venture south to settle on it. Schools teaching in Albanian, originally encouraged in the hope they would keep Albanians backward, proved hotbeds of secessionist agitation, and were suppressed. In 1937, the monarchy entertained proposals by a leading Serb intellectual, the assassin turned historian Vaso Cubrilovic of Belgrade University, that all Albanians be forcibly expelled from Kossovo.

Near the start of World War Two, Fascist Italy seized Albania. Nazi Germany seized Yugoslavia in 1941. The mines in northern Kossovo, and most Kossovo Serbs therefore, were retained under Nazi occupation; the remainder of Kossovo was awarded to Italian Albania. Serbs in Italian Kossovo, mostly recent settlers, were pitilessly persecuted by Albanians, even against occasional Italian opposition. The S. S. security division “Skanderberg” was largely recruited among Kossovo Albanians.


Three: The Tito Era

After Italy capitulated in 1943, Tito, the Communist partisan leader, declared Kossovo would be allowed self-determination if Communists won. In 1944, his partisans succeeded in fighting their way into the place, with some local Albanian support at last. Royalist Chetnik partisans violently opposed any idea of Kossovo secession, winning Tito even more support in that locale.

Tito, however, reneged on that promised self-determination, annexing Kossovo anew to Serbia as an “Autonomous district” within his new Yugoslavia. The Albanian Communist leader, Enver Hoxha, was in no position to contest the matter, amid talk under Stalin of a Balkan Federation to include Albania itself. Tito’s break in 1948 with Stalin ended any real hope for Hoxha he could fold Kossovo into his hoped for Greater Albania.

Kossovo’s populace was then about three-fifths Albanian and one-quarter Serb, with the remainder including Moslem Slavs, Catholic Montenegrins, Turks, and Gypsies. Tito saw that Communist party and police supervisors in Kossovo were Serbs. These energetically hunted up the least hint of Albanian secessionists, harvesting batches of them for show trials in 1956 (coincident with the Hungarian revolt), and again in 1964.

Tito purged his Serb Interior Minister in 1966, for opposition to economic decentralization. Albanian Communists replaced Serbs in Party and police supervisory posts in Kossovo. In the “Prague Spring” of ’68, Kossovo Albanian students demonstrated for national status in Yugoslavia, and an Albanian language university. After many arrests, Tito granted the university in 1970. Albanian language textbooks could only be got in Enver Hoxha’s Albania, which opened a connection to the new Kossovo school in Pristina for his enterprising “special service” agents.

A new Yugoslav constitution in 1974 gave autonomous Serbian Kossovo effective national status, with a representative on the Yugoslav collective presidency. Albanian Kossovo police and party personnel suppressed radical cliques, inspired to “Enverism” (as secession became called) by Hoxha’s agents. Some of these cliques, formed about 1978, included young men who would later become leading lights of the present-day Kossovo Liberation Army.

Tito died in 1980. In spring of 1981, Kossovo Albanian students at Pristina University began demonstrations demanding independence, even fusion with Hoxha’s Albania, to applause from spectators. Yugoslav Interior Ministry troops arrived, and broke the demonstrations, shooting and beating scores to death. Kossovo Albanian party and police officials sustained the crack-down, loyally denouncing “Enverist” radicals, and arresting and beating hundreds suspected of such leanings.

Radical secessionist leaders fled to sanctuaries in Western Europe. Several, meeting near Stuttgart in 1982 to form a popular front, were ambushed and shot dead by unknown assailants. Surviving radicals concluded the bullets came from Serbs in the Yugoslav Interior Ministry, and swore blood vengeance. Under the name of Popular Movement for the Kossovo Republic, a handful of such trained in Albania, and attempted a campaign of gun-battles and bombs against Kossovo and Yugoslav police.


Four: Rise of Milosevic

These largely would-be assassins had no material effect, but a profound moral one. Any crime against serbs in Kossovo was in serbia reported as secessionist terror, and crimes against Serbs in Kossovo, particularly against property of isolated farms and Orthodox sites, occurred with increasing frequency. The Serb Orthodox Patriarchite was ranged alongside the Serb Academy of Sciebces in protest of this, with the latter, in 1985, calling the current situation genocide against against Serbs in Kossovo.

At the start of 1986, the banker Slobodan Milosevic ascended to leadership of the Serb Communist Party. Belligerence in favor of Serbs dwelling outside Serbia’s boundaries, or in the autonomous districts of Vojvodina and Kossovo, offered a ready lever for political power. Kossovo Serbs were organizing militias with assistance from Serb Interior Ministry police; Hoxha’s death had not altered Albania’s support of “Enverism” in Kossovo.

Early in 1987, Milosevic arrived in Pristina’s suburbs for a meeting with Kossovo Serb leaders. A large crowd of Kossovo Serbs rioted before him against the largely Albanian Kossovo police. It was not chance; four days before, Milosevic had met with the riot’s instigators, and a schedule had been fixed for the outbreak.

Widely broadcast film of the incident established Milosevic as champion of distressed Serbs. Later that year, Milosevic used this popularity to force Serbia’s president from office. In the summer of 1988, Milosevic’s Serb Communist Party organized a campaign of Kossovo Remembrance rallies throughout Serbia proper, claiming an average attendance of half a million at each. In November, Milosevic as Party chief dismissed the Albanians in Communist Party leadership in Kossovo, and promulgated constitutional changes effectively stripping Kossovo of its autonomous status.

Albanian Communist leadership in Kossovo mobilized sizable demonstrations and hunger strikes in protest early in 1989. These were broken with loss of life by Yugoslav Interior Ministry troops, who seized the arms of both Kossovo’s national guard and police. Closely surrounded by tanks, the Kossovo Assembly voted itself out of effective existence on March 23.

Milosevic now accepted the Presidency of Serbia. Continuing Albanian demonstrations in Kossovo were broken by Serb and Yugoslav soldiers and police; hundreds of arrests were accompanied by torture. At the end of the year, Albanian intellectuals and some Communist leaders collected to form the Democratic League for Kossovo. The police terror stilled the demonstrations early in 1990.

Milosevic ratified Serb Parliament decrees forbidding Albanians to buy land from Serbs in Kossovo, and removing Albanians from civil service, including hospitals, schools, and the police. The latter quickly became overwhelmingly Serb. The Albanian membership of the Communist Party in Kossovo took up membership in the League for Democratic Kossovo.


Five: The Kossovo Resistance

This L. D. K. was led by the writer Ibrahim Rugova. He inspired Kossovo Albanians to a program of passive resistance to Serb authority. A “shadow state” emerged, quartered in private dwellings, and with a government in exile operating in Germany. Rugova’s “shadow state” held elections, administered Albanian language schooling, even collected taxes. These applied equally to Kossovo Albanians dwelling abroad; most were guest-worker laborers in Europe, but some were prosperous businessmen, or smugglers of stolen cars and narcotics and prostitutes.

The handful of violent radicals constituting the Popular Movement for the Kossovo Republic (P. M. K. R.) were denounced by Rugova as stooges of the Serb police, and he was widely believed by Kossovo Albanians when he did. The radicals’ sporadic gunshots and arsons each served to signal a fresh campaign of interrogations and beatings by Serb police, directed against the nonviolent “shadow state” organizers.

With Yugoslav and Serb armed forces devoted to war in Croatia and Bosnia, Milosevic was content to leave Kossovo at this status quo. On Serb victory in Croatia, one of the leading Serb killers, an Interior Ministry employee known as Arkan, moved to Pristina with scores of armed followers. “Enverist” radicals of the P. M. K. R. secretly convened in Drenica (where resistance to the old Yugoslav monarchy had persisted into 1924), and there voted themselves the armed force of the Kossovo Republic. Albania’s newly elected government maintained cordial relations both with these radicals, and Rugova’s pacific Kossovo government in exile, now established near Bonn.

Kossovo Albanian boycott of official Serb elections in December 1993 gave Milosevic a resounding victory over his rival for the presidency, the Serb-American businessman Panic, and allowed the killer Arkan to win election to a parliament seat. The “Enverist” radicals were split into a Marxist faction, the National Movement for the Liberation of Kossovo, and a Nationalist faction, the Kossovo Liberation Army. The latter had a better footing abroad, where the pacific Rugova’s government in exile at Bonn was beginning to explore establishing its own armed force. Albania continued to assist by giving military training to dozens of radicals, and allowing transit through its borders.

The bloody summer of 1995 saw Serb massacre of Bosnian Moslems, Croat expulsion of Serbs, and NATO bombing of Serb forces in Bosnia. The Dayton Accords confirmed Serb gains in Bosnia, and recognized the rump Yugoslav Federation Milosevic dominated, from his seat for Serbia in its collective presidency. The pacific Rugova used his control of Albanian language media in Kossovo to maintain popular commitment to passive resistance, while the fledgling KLA demanded Serb departure from Kossovo, and launched a new campaign of sporadic shootings and bombings.

Serbia was greatly unsettled by the influx of refugees from Krajina and Slavonia. In Yugoslav elections on May 31, 1996, the Montenegrin presidency went to an opponent of Milosevic, and in Serbia, opposition parties won local posts in many cities. Milosevic refused to allow victorious opponents to take office in Serbia. He allowed three months of demonstrations, then bought off his principal Serb opponent by offering him a cabinet post. The demonstrations were mopped up by brutal police attack, and opposition figures allowed to take local office found their function superseded by various national agencies. The Vatican brokered an agreement Milosevic signed to allow Albanian language schools official existence in Kossovo, but he took no steps to implement it.


Six: Taking Up the Gun

In Bonn, the leading functionary of Rugova’s government in exile, Bujar Bukoshi, rejected passive resistance, and turned the radio transmitter he controlled to broadcasts supporting the KLA. Early in 1997, Albania’s banks were revealed as Ponzi swindles. Mobs looted government facilities, including military arsenals, and swiftly reduced the land to anarchic chaos, in which a Kalshnikov rifle could be had for a five dollar bill.

Bukoshi’s embryonic forces, consisting of a few hundred exiled policemen and soldiers, established themselves in Albania as the Armed Forces of the Kossovo Republic (F. A. R. K.), in competition with the KLA. Albanian students organized demonstrations against Milosevic’s refusal to implement the Vatican agreement on schooling, ignoring orders to desist from Rugova. Serb police crushed the demonstrations with extraordinary brutality.

KLA attacks, which by the Serb government’s claims had been occurring roughly once a week, and claimed ten Serb lives since 1995, began to take place almost daily at the start of 1998. In the old rebel district of Drenica, near the village of Likosane just before noon on February 28, a gunfight broke out between KLA men and a Serb police patrol. Once it was over, Serb police massacred the men of a wealthy Albanian clan considered leaders of the hamlet. Five days later, Serb police surrounded the family compound of a KLA leader and shelled it for hours, then went into the ruins and murdered women, children, and wounded, to a total of 58, including the KLA man, Adem Jashari.

These murders turned Albanian village elders throughout Kossovo against Rugova’s passive resistance. They put hundreds of their young men at the disposal of the KLA. In Drenica, and near the Albanian border, armed partisan bands appeared in such strength the Serb police retired to establish encircling roadblocks. Western diplomats threatened Milosevic with dire consequences if the murders by his police were repeated. Milosevic agreed to begin implementing the Vatican schools agreement, and to meet with Ibrahim Rugova. Simultaneously, Milosevic admitted the ultra-nationalist Chetnik party into a coalition government with his Serbian Socialist Party, and loosed his Serb police once again into Drenica.

This campaign was conducted with the same degree of atrocity that characterized previous operations by Serb police. In one typical incident near Gorjne Obrinje, after fourteen Serb police were shot in a fire-fight, a group of fourteen Albanian women, children, and old men found hiding nearby were shot point-blank by Serb police. Some 200,000 Albanians fled their homes to avoid the fighting, some to southern Kossovo and some to Albania. President Clinton ordered a show of force by U. S. warplanes over Yugoslavia, and in October, his pressure secured an agreement by which Serb Interior Ministry troops were to vacate Kossovo, negotiations with Kossovo Albanian leaders were to begin in earnest, and a body of diplomatic observers would enter Kossovo to monitor events. During the course of negotiating this agreement, Milosevic told a U. S. general that the way to bring peace to Drenica was to “kill them all.”

The monitored cease-fire brought many Kossovo Albanian refugees back to their homes. In Albania, the Kossovo government in exile’s small armed force was violently absorbed by the KLA; in Kossovo, KLA men began arresting and executing functionaries of Rugova’s “shadow state” as collaborators with Serbia. They also murdered about a dozen Serb civilians, and a Serb village mayor. By the start of 1999, fire-fights of company and even battalion scale between KLA guerrillas and Serb police were once more occurring.

Near dawn on January 15, battle broke out between KLA guerrillas and Serb police near the town of Racak. After nine KLA men were killed the rest fled. During the afternoon Serb police entered the town, raped and murdered two women, and murdered forty-three unarmed men and boys. Serb Information Ministry spokesmen in Pristina next morning invited Western journalists to visit the scene of a “successful” fight against the KLA; when they reported what they saw, Milosevic declared the KLA had fabricated the incident, and demanded the diplomatic observers quit Kossovo. The chief judge of the United Nations War Crimes Tribunal for Yugoslavia was denied entry to the country.

Seven: The NATO Intervention

NATO demanded the talks agreed to the previous October begin in February, and threatened military action to force compliance. The meeting at Rambouillet Chateau featured a severely fractured Albanian delegation; its principal factions (all of which hated one another) were Rugova’s adherents in the old LDK, old line Communist functionaries from that same umbrella group, and the KLA led by Hashim Thaci. After days of negotiation, Milosevic struck out about half the already settled agreement, substituting his initial demands, which the Albanians and NATO had already rejected, and forced collapse of the talks on March 18. Two days later, 40,000 Serb police and soldiers with 300 armored vehicles launched a fresh offensive into Drenica.

NATO air strikes commenced against Serbia on March 24. While these aimed at destroying Serb anti-aircraft defenses, Serb police and soldiers in Kossovo commenced a wholesale assault on the Albanians of Kossovo, aimed at driving them from the country by exemplary massacre. During the course of this campaign, roughly 10,000 persons, mostly young men, were murdered by Serb police and soldiers. Almost a million Albanians took to flight, either west to Albania, south into Macedonia, or into the mountains of Kossovo itself. Lightly armed KLA guerrillas could accomplish nothing against the Serb forces.

When Serb air defenses were disabled, NATO warplanes began attacks demolishing bridges, power stations, and the like in Serbia proper. With Serb police and soldiers forced to retire their heavy equipment to shelter in bunkers by NATO air bombardment in Kossovo, their murder squads became vulnerable to attack by Albanian partisans, many of whom were not, properly speaking, KLA, but village militia deployed by their clan elders. When Serb police and soldiers attempted to group together to overpower these guerrilla bands, the Serbs were savaged by NATO warplanes.

On June 3, Milosevic capitulated. Serb police and soldiers retired northward; NATO troops moved in. Kossovo Albanian refugees streamed back to their homes. Many set upon Serbs still remaining in Kossovo. NATO troops intervened to protect lives, but not property; even so, several dozen Serbs, many elderly, were killed. The overwhelming majority of Serbs resident in Kossovo fled north into Serbia, or into that small portion of northern Kossovo around the mines where they had long constituted the principal element of the populace.

A government for Kossovo, formed under NATO auspices, blended elements of the LDK and KLA, with the KLA’s Hashim Thaci emerging as Prime Minister, while Ibrahim Rugova, the nonviolent leader, found himself without power, or much prestige. The KLA has kept its word to disarm only poorly, and remains a police problem for NATO occupation troops. It has attempted to provoke guerrilla war in the adjoining areas of Macedonia which are largely populated by Albanians, but has had scant success there, either in baiting the Macedonian government into atrocious reaction to their activities, or in gaining wide support among Albanian people in those districts.
The Unhappy History of Kossovo


One: Origin of the Quarrel

The clash in Kossovo of Arnaut and Vascian, as the peoples known to we moderns as Albanian and Serb were oft known in Ottoman days, differs from the usual run of Balkan bloodletting; it describes a real ethnic difference. Serb, Croat, Slovene, Montenegrin; all are Slavs, divided due to institutions only. Albanians remain in some proportion survivals of the old Dalmatian and Illyric peoples of Roman days, taken to craggy peaks for refuge from a tide of Slavic invasion commencing with the sixth century.

Medieval Albanian Catholicism offered further differentiation from Orthodox Serbs. The northeastern extension of the Albanian remnant, and the southern marches of the Serb, coincided roughly in modern Kossovo. Here the Serb Czar and Orthodox Patriarchite were able to exert authority the more atomized Albanian polity could not. After the death of the Albanian chieftain Skanderberg, and the Ottoman routing of Venice from the latter’s Adriatic lodgments, late in the fifteenth century, Albanians generally converted to Islam.

In Kossovo, this established local Albanians’ dominance over the Orthodox Serb peasantry, as the Ottoman gave landlord’s tenure only to Moslems. More enterprising or desperate Serbs migrated north; Albanians of similar motivation replaced them from the west. The locale remained poorly ordered, and a frequent theater for rebellion and consequent Ottoman suppression.

The catastrophe suffered by the Ottoman besieging Vienna in 1683 led to the swift seizure of Bosnia, Albania, and Serbia by Austrian and Bavarian Catholic armies. An Austrian force ventured into Kossovo in 1689, setting Albanian and Serb alike both to rebellion against the Ottoman and to battle against one another. The Austrians soon were routed at Nish. In Kossovo, the Ottoman killed every inhabitant they could lay hands on for days. Serbs fled north in great number, Albanians fled west.

With Ottoman authority reasserted, it was mostly Albanians who returned. These soon outnumbered the Serb survivors and progeny. Erection of an autonomous Serbia early in the nineteenth century enticed Kossovo Serbs to migrate north and acquire a freehold farm there. The Russo-Turkish War of 1877, which saw near collapse for the tottering Ottoman, was preceded and followed by Serb attacks.

These fell on Ottoman garrisons and Moslem inhabitants in the south of modern Serbia, culminating in the 1878 sack and firing of the Albanian quarter in Nish. Islamic refugees fled into Kossovo; Christians fled into Serbia for shelter from ensuing pogrom, and advancing Ottoman soldiery. The peace imposed by the Treaty of Berlin left Kossovo under unrestricted Ottoman rule.


Two: To the Yugoslav Monarchy

Albanian agitation for autonomy on modern terms within the declining Ottoman imperium began at Prizren in Kossovo, and at Istanbul. The Serb remnant in Kossovo were subjected to a wretched existence, without recourse from predation by landlord or hostile brigand. Early in 1912, declaration of an Albanian state ignited a successful rebellion in Kossovo against the Ottoman. In the Balkan War, pitting Slav and Greek against the Ottoman that autumn, Serbian armies struck south through Kossovo with great massacre against the Albanian populace. The Treaty of Bucharest in 1913 confirmed Serbia in possession of Kossovo.

During World War One, Austria-Hungary put Serbia’s army to flight in 1915. Albanians in Kossovo rose against the retreating Serbs with utmost savagery. The Serb soldiers replied in kind to fight their way through to the Adriatic, there embarking on French ships to tremendous Allied acclaim. Serb armies re-entered Kossovo from the south by the 1918 Armistice, and were bitterly resisted by Albanian rebels. The new Yugoslav monarchy with its Serb king did not succeed in breaking organized resistance till 1924 in Kossovo. Brigandage, and brutal reprisal, remained endemic to the locale.

The Serb monarchy of Yugoslavia superintended a determined effort to secure its rule in Kossovo. Land was stolen from Albanians as “undocumented,” and made available for Serbs who would venture south to settle on it. Schools teaching in Albanian, originally encouraged in the hope they would keep Albanians backward, proved hotbeds of secessionist agitation, and were suppressed. In 1937, the monarchy entertained proposals by a leading Serb intellectual, the assassin turned historian Vaso Cubrilovic of Belgrade University, that all Albanians be forcibly expelled from Kossovo.

Near the start of World War Two, Fascist Italy seized Albania. Nazi Germany seized Yugoslavia in 1941. The mines in northern Kossovo, and most Kossovo Serbs therefore, were retained under Nazi occupation; the remainder of Kossovo was awarded to Italian Albania. Serbs in Italian Kossovo, mostly recent settlers, were pitilessly persecuted by Albanians, even against occasional Italian opposition. The S. S. security division “Skanderberg” was largely recruited among Kossovo Albanians.


Three: The Tito Era

After Italy capitulated in 1943, Tito, the Communist partisan leader, declared Kossovo would be allowed self-determination if Communists won. In 1944, his partisans succeeded in fighting their way into the place, with some local Albanian support at last. Royalist Chetnik partisans violently opposed any idea of Kossovo secession, winning Tito even more support in that locale.

Tito, however, reneged on that promised self-determination, annexing Kossovo anew to Serbia as an “Autonomous district” within his new Yugoslavia. The Albanian Communist leader, Enver Hoxha, was in no position to contest the matter, amid talk under Stalin of a Balkan Federation to include Albania itself. Tito’s break in 1948 with Stalin ended any real hope for Hoxha he could fold Kossovo into his hoped for Greater Albania.

Kossovo’s populace was then about three-fifths Albanian and one-quarter Serb, with the remainder including Moslem Slavs, Catholic Montenegrins, Turks, and Gypsies. Tito saw that Communist party and police supervisors in Kossovo were Serbs. These energetically hunted up the least hint of Albanian secessionists, harvesting batches of them for show trials in 1956 (coincident with the Hungarian revolt), and again in 1964.

Tito purged his Serb Interior Minister in 1966, for opposition to economic decentralization. Albanian Communists replaced Serbs in Party and police supervisory posts in Kossovo. In the “Prague Spring” of ’68, Kossovo Albanian students demonstrated for national status in Yugoslavia, and an Albanian language university. After many arrests, Tito granted the university in 1970. Albanian language textbooks could only be got in Enver Hoxha’s Albania, which opened a connection to the new Kossovo school in Pristina for his enterprising “special service” agents.

A new Yugoslav constitution in 1974 gave autonomous Serbian Kossovo effective national status, with a representative on the Yugoslav collective presidency. Albanian Kossovo police and party personnel suppressed radical cliques, inspired to “Enverism” (as secession became called) by Hoxha’s agents. Some of these cliques, formed about 1978, included young men who would later become leading lights of the present-day Kossovo Liberation Army.

Tito died in 1980. In spring of 1981, Kossovo Albanian students at Pristina University began demonstrations demanding independence, even fusion with Hoxha’s Albania, to applause from spectators. Yugoslav Interior Ministry troops arrived, and broke the demonstrations, shooting and beating scores to death. Kossovo Albanian party and police officials sustained the crack-down, loyally denouncing “Enverist” radicals, and arresting and beating hundreds suspected of such leanings.

Radical secessionist leaders fled to sanctuaries in Western Europe. Several, meeting near Stuttgart in 1982 to form a popular front, were ambushed and shot dead by unknown assailants. Surviving radicals concluded the bullets came from Serbs in the Yugoslav Interior Ministry, and swore blood vengeance. Under the name of Popular Movement for the Kossovo Republic, a handful of such trained in Albania, and attempted a campaign of gun-battles and bombs against Kossovo and Yugoslav police.


Four: Rise of Milosevic

These largely would-be assassins had no material effect, but a profound moral one. Any crime against serbs in Kossovo was in serbia reported as secessionist terror, and crimes against Serbs in Kossovo, particularly against property of isolated farms and Orthodox sites, occurred with increasing frequency. The Serb Orthodox Patriarchite was ranged alongside the Serb Academy of Sciebces in protest of this, with the latter, in 1985, calling the current situation genocide against against Serbs in Kossovo.

At the start of 1986, the banker Slobodan Milosevic ascended to leadership of the Serb Communist Party. Belligerence in favor of Serbs dwelling outside Serbia’s boundaries, or in the autonomous districts of Vojvodina and Kossovo, offered a ready lever for political power. Kossovo Serbs were organizing militias with assistance from Serb Interior Ministry police; Hoxha’s death had not altered Albania’s support of “Enverism” in Kossovo.

Early in 1987, Milosevic arrived in Pristina’s suburbs for a meeting with Kossovo Serb leaders. A large crowd of Kossovo Serbs rioted before him against the largely Albanian Kossovo police. It was not chance; four days before, Milosevic had met with the riot’s instigators, and a schedule had been fixed for the outbreak.

Widely broadcast film of the incident established Milosevic as champion of distressed Serbs. Later that year, Milosevic used this popularity to force Serbia’s president from office. In the summer of 1988, Milosevic’s Serb Communist Party organized a campaign of Kossovo Remembrance rallies throughout Serbia proper, claiming an average attendance of half a million at each. In November, Milosevic as Party chief dismissed the Albanians in Communist Party leadership in Kossovo, and promulgated constitutional changes effectively stripping Kossovo of its autonomous status.

Albanian Communist leadership in Kossovo mobilized sizable demonstrations and hunger strikes in protest early in 1989. These were broken with loss of life by Yugoslav Interior Ministry troops, who seized the arms of both Kossovo’s national guard and police. Closely surrounded by tanks, the Kossovo Assembly voted itself out of effective existence on March 23.

Milosevic now accepted the Presidency of Serbia. Continuing Albanian demonstrations in Kossovo were broken by Serb and Yugoslav soldiers and police; hundreds of arrests were accompanied by torture. At the end of the year, Albanian intellectuals and some Communist leaders collected to form the Democratic League for Kossovo. The police terror stilled the demonstrations early in 1990.

Milosevic ratified Serb Parliament decrees forbidding Albanians to buy land from Serbs in Kossovo, and removing Albanians from civil service, including hospitals, schools, and the police. The latter quickly became overwhelmingly Serb. The Albanian membership of the Communist Party in Kossovo took up membership in the League for Democratic Kossovo.


Five: The Kossovo Resistance

This L. D. K. was led by the writer Ibrahim Rugova. He inspired Kossovo Albanians to a program of passive resistance to Serb authority. A “shadow state” emerged, quartered in private dwellings, and with a government in exile operating in Germany. Rugova’s “shadow state” held elections, administered Albanian language schooling, even collected taxes. These applied equally to Kossovo Albanians dwelling abroad; most were guest-worker laborers in Europe, but some were prosperous businessmen, or smugglers of stolen cars and narcotics and prostitutes.

The handful of violent radicals constituting the Popular Movement for the Kossovo Republic (P. M. K. R.) were denounced by Rugova as stooges of the Serb police, and he was widely believed by Kossovo Albanians when he did. The radicals’ sporadic gunshots and arsons each served to signal a fresh campaign of interrogations and beatings by Serb police, directed against the nonviolent “shadow state” organizers.

With Yugoslav and Serb armed forces devoted to war in Croatia and Bosnia, Milosevic was content to leave Kossovo at this status quo. On Serb victory in Croatia, one of the leading Serb killers, an Interior Ministry employee known as Arkan, moved to Pristina with scores of armed followers. “Enverist” radicals of the P. M. K. R. secretly convened in Drenica (where resistance to the old Yugoslav monarchy had persisted into 1924), and there voted themselves the armed force of the Kossovo Republic. Albania’s newly elected government maintained cordial relations both with these radicals, and Rugova’s pacific Kossovo government in exile, now established near Bonn.

Kossovo Albanian boycott of official Serb elections in December 1993 gave Milosevic a resounding victory over his rival for the presidency, the Serb-American businessman Panic, and allowed the killer Arkan to win election to a parliament seat. The “Enverist” radicals were split into a Marxist faction, the National Movement for the Liberation of Kossovo, and a Nationalist faction, the Kossovo Liberation Army. The latter had a better footing abroad, where the pacific Rugova’s government in exile at Bonn was beginning to explore establishing its own armed force. Albania continued to assist by giving military training to dozens of radicals, and allowing transit through its borders.

The bloody summer of 1995 saw Serb massacre of Bosnian Moslems, Croat expulsion of Serbs, and NATO bombing of Serb forces in Bosnia. The Dayton Accords confirmed Serb gains in Bosnia, and recognized the rump Yugoslav Federation Milosevic dominated, from his seat for Serbia in its collective presidency. The pacific Rugova used his control of Albanian language media in Kossovo to maintain popular commitment to passive resistance, while the fledgling KLA demanded Serb departure from Kossovo, and launched a new campaign of sporadic shootings and bombings.

Serbia was greatly unsettled by the influx of refugees from Krajina and Slavonia. In Yugoslav elections on May 31, 1996, the Montenegrin presidency went to an opponent of Milosevic, and in Serbia, opposition parties won local posts in many cities. Milosevic refused to allow victorious opponents to take office in Serbia. He allowed three months of demonstrations, then bought off his principal Serb opponent by offering him a cabinet post. The demonstrations were mopped up by brutal police attack, and opposition figures allowed to take local office found their function superseded by various national agencies. The Vatican brokered an agreement Milosevic signed to allow Albanian language schools official existence in Kossovo, but he took no steps to implement it.


Six: Taking Up the Gun

In Bonn, the leading functionary of Rugova’s government in exile, Bujar Bukoshi, rejected passive resistance, and turned the radio transmitter he controlled to broadcasts supporting the KLA. Early in 1997, Albania’s banks were revealed as Ponzi swindles. Mobs looted government facilities, including military arsenals, and swiftly reduced the land to anarchic chaos, in which a Kalshnikov rifle could be had for a five dollar bill.

Bukoshi’s embryonic forces, consisting of a few hundred exiled policemen and soldiers, established themselves in Albania as the Armed Forces of the Kossovo Republic (F. A. R. K.), in competition with the KLA. Albanian students organized demonstrations against Milosevic’s refusal to implement the Vatican agreement on schooling, ignoring orders to desist from Rugova. Serb police crushed the demonstrations with extraordinary brutality.

KLA attacks, which by the Serb government’s claims had been occurring roughly once a week, and claimed ten Serb lives since 1995, began to take place almost daily at the start of 1998. In the old rebel district of Drenica, near the village of Likosane just before noon on February 28, a gunfight broke out between KLA men and a Serb police patrol. Once it was over, Serb police massacred the men of a wealthy Albanian clan considered leaders of the hamlet. Five days later, Serb police surrounded the family compound of a KLA leader and shelled it for hours, then went into the ruins and murdered women, children, and wounded, to a total of 58, including the KLA man, Adem Jashari.

These murders turned Albanian village elders throughout Kossovo against Rugova’s passive resistance. They put hundreds of their young men at the disposal of the KLA. In Drenica, and near the Albanian border, armed partisan bands appeared in such strength the Serb police retired to establish encircling roadblocks. Western diplomats threatened Milosevic with dire consequences if the murders by his police were repeated. Milosevic agreed to begin implementing the Vatican schools agreement, and to meet with Ibrahim Rugova. Simultaneously, Milosevic admitted the ultra-nationalist Chetnik party into a coalition government with his Serbian Socialist Party, and loosed his Serb police once again into Drenica.

This campaign was conducted with the same degree of atrocity that characterized previous operations by Serb police. In one typical incident near Gorjne Obrinje, after fourteen Serb police were shot in a fire-fight, a group of fourteen Albanian women, children, and old men found hiding nearby were shot point-blank by Serb police. Some 200,000 Albanians fled their homes to avoid the fighting, some to southern Kossovo and some to Albania. President Clinton ordered a show of force by U. S. warplanes over Yugoslavia, and in October, his pressure secured an agreement by which Serb Interior Ministry troops were to vacate Kossovo, negotiations with Kossovo Albanian leaders were to begin in earnest, and a body of diplomatic observers would enter Kossovo to monitor events. During the course of negotiating this agreement, Milosevic told a U. S. general that the way to bring peace to Drenica was to “kill them all.”

The monitored cease-fire brought many Kossovo Albanian refugees back to their homes. In Albania, the Kossovo government in exile’s small armed force was violently absorbed by the KLA; in Kossovo, KLA men began arresting and executing functionaries of Rugova’s “shadow state” as collaborators with Serbia. They also murdered about a dozen Serb civilians, and a Serb village mayor. By the start of 1999, fire-fights of company and even battalion scale between KLA guerrillas and Serb police were once more occurring.

Near dawn on January 15, battle broke out between KLA guerrillas and Serb police near the town of Racak. After nine KLA men were killed the rest fled. During the afternoon Serb police entered the town, raped and murdered two women, and murdered forty-three unarmed men and boys. Serb Information Ministry spokesmen in Pristina next morning invited Western journalists to visit the scene of a “successful” fight against the KLA; when they reported what they saw, Milosevic declared the KLA had fabricated the incident, and demanded the diplomatic observers quit Kossovo. The chief judge of the United Nations War Crimes Tribunal for Yugoslavia was denied entry to the country.

Seven: The NATO Intervention

NATO demanded the talks agreed to the previous October begin in February, and threatened military action to force compliance. The meeting at Rambouillet Chateau featured a severely fractured Albanian delegation; its principal factions (all of which hated one another) were Rugova’s adherents in the old LDK, old line Communist functionaries from that same umbrella group, and the KLA led by Hashim Thaci. After days of negotiation, Milosevic struck out about half the already settled agreement, substituting his initial demands, which the Albanians and NATO had already rejected, and forced collapse of the talks on March 18. Two days later, 40,000 Serb police and soldiers with 300 armored vehicles launched a fresh offensive into Drenica.

NATO air strikes commenced against Serbia on March 24. While these aimed at destroying Serb anti-aircraft defenses, Serb police and soldiers in Kossovo commenced a wholesale assault on the Albanians of Kossovo, aimed at driving them from the country by exemplary massacre. During the course of this campaign, roughly 10,000 persons, mostly young men, were murdered by Serb police and soldiers. Almost a million Albanians took to flight, either west to Albania, south into Macedonia, or into the mountains of Kossovo itself. Lightly armed KLA guerrillas could accomplish nothing against the Serb forces.

When Serb air defenses were disabled, NATO warplanes began attacks demolishing bridges, power stations, and the like in Serbia proper. With Serb police and soldiers forced to retire their heavy equipment to shelter in bunkers by NATO air bombardment in Kossovo, their murder squads became vulnerable to attack by Albanian partisans, many of whom were not, properly speaking, KLA, but village militia deployed by their clan elders. When Serb police and soldiers attempted to group together to overpower these guerrilla bands, the Serbs were savaged by NATO warplanes.

On June 3, Milosevic capitulated. Serb police and soldiers retired northward; NATO troops moved in. Kossovo Albanian refugees streamed back to their homes. Many set upon Serbs still remaining in Kossovo. NATO troops intervened to protect lives, but not property; even so, several dozen Serbs, many elderly, were killed. The overwhelming majority of Serbs resident in Kossovo fled north into Serbia, or into that small portion of northern Kossovo around the mines where they had long constituted the principal element of the populace.

A government for Kossovo, formed under NATO auspices, blended elements of the LDK and KLA, with the KLA’s Hashim Thaci emerging as Prime Minister, while Ibrahim Rugova, the nonviolent leader, found himself without power, or much prestige. The KLA has kept its word to disarm only poorly, and remains a police problem for NATO occupation troops. It has attempted to provoke guerrilla war in the adjoining areas of Macedonia which are largely populated by Albanians, but has had scant success there, either in baiting the Macedonian government into atrocious reaction to their activities, or in gaining wide support among Albanian people in those districts.

Postcript

This piece was written several years ago, which does not, of course, alter the body of facts it presents. In the interim, there does not seem to have been too much change. The remnant Serbian population of the district has been squeezed north and out, and the doing, while unwholesome, is about all that could be expected under the circumstances. There has been some friction between the K.L.A. and the NATO forces, but nothing approaching the scale of even the first stages of revolt against Milosevic. The situation is, by and large, about as good as could be epected, given the history and recent trauma of the place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #52
62. The Magistrate's (and Most of the Western World's ) Version Ignores Early Western Meddling
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 02:53 PM by Crisco
The popular history republished above is a very safe narrative for Obama or any candidate to stick to.

However, it ignores Western agitation in the conflict. When the Cold War was in full swing, Yugoslavia was in a unique position; it was neither Warsaw, nor NATO, and it was a nice little buffer for the West.

When the USSR dissolved, Yugoslavia was the sole Eastern nation that did not join the rush to join NATO. Ponder that for a bit, and then consider the second source below.

Nonetheless, it appeared at first that the danger of a bloody conflict in Bosnia could be avoided by letting the three sides negotiate their own settlement under the auspices of a special commission of the European Community. On February 23rd, 1992, in Lisbon, the three Bosnian leaders -- Izetbegovic for the Bosnian Muslims, Radovan Karadzic for the Bosnian Serbs, and Mate Boban for the Bosnian Croats -- agreed to a confederation divided into three ethnic regions: the Swiss cantonization of Bosnia. However, returning to Sarajevo, Izetbegovic told U.S. Ambassador Warren Zimmermann that he did not like the agreement. Mr. Zimmermann is quoted as saying, "I told him, if he didn’t like it, why sign it?" Mr. Izetbegovic then publicly renounced the Lisbon agreement. (In a September 30, 1993, letter to The New York Times, Mr. Zimmermann disputes this account.) According to a high-ranking State Department official, quoted in The New York Times, "The policy was to encourage Izetbegovic to break with the partition plan." In March, Karadzic predicted "a civil war between ethnic groups and religions with hundreds of thousands dead and hundreds of towns destroyed. After such a war, we should have completely the same situation: three Bosnia-Herzegovinas, which we have right now." By early April, twelve European Community members and the United States granted recognition of Bosnian independence. As predicted, full-scale civil war erupted.

What can account for the role of Western diplomacy on this issue? Ambassador Zimmermann said, "Our view was that we might be able to head off a Serbian power grab by internationalizing the problem. Our hope was the Serbs would hold off if it was clear Bosnia had the recognition of Western countries. It turned out we were wrong." Instead, the Western powers fired the starting gun for what was an unnecessary war. One of the most basic principles of foreign policy is to keep local problems local, not to internationalize them. If any part of the world speaks to the danger of internationalizing local problems, it is the Balkans.


http://www.againstbombing.org/Riley.htm

Across this last weekend, the Western propaganda machine was working overtime, celebrating the latest NATO miracle: the transformation of Serbian Kosovo into Albanian Kosova. A shameless land grab by the United States, which used the Kosovo problem to install an enormous military base (Camp Bondsteel) on other people's strategically located land, is transformed by the power of the media into an edifying legend of "national liberation".


http://counterpunch.com/johnstone02182008.html


======

The "right" answers to the Kosovo question are the answers that adhere to the Western version of events. For other truths, a simple Google search on 'western folly bosnia independence' or 'western folly croatia independence' (no quotes) will turn up results you never saw on your evening news or anywhere in major Western media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. No
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
66. She has, it was posted here when she issued it.
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 05:14 PM by heraldsqure

Edit: this was a number of weeks ago, prior to the declaration of independence, but obviously she supports US recognition.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4650993


I welcome the historic declaration of Kosova independence issued today in Pristina. I urge our friends and allies and around the world to join the United States and European Union countries in promptly recognizing an independent Kosova.

This is a historic step that will allow the people of Kosova to finally live in their own democratic state. It will allow Kosova and Serbia to finally put a difficult chapter in their history behind them and to move forward. Resolving this issue has taken too long and has held both of these proud peoples back from pursuing a better European and Euro-Atlantic future. It is time now for all of us to look ahead and to focus on the challenge of building an independent Kosova and supporting a democratic Serbia in an integrated Europe.

I want to underscore the need to avoid any violence or provocations in the days and weeks ahead. Kosovars and Serbs have seen too much violence and too many provocations in the past. It is time to focus on improving the lives of people living in both countries and the integration of these countries into the West.

In recognizing the independence of Kosova, I want to stress the high importance that I attach to full protection of the rights of all minorities in Kosova, especially the Serbs, and to safeguard Serbian cultural and religious heritage sites in Kosova. The international community must stand firm on these points.

I remain concerned about the deterioration of the situation in neighboring Bosnia and urge the Bush Administration to pay more attention to this issue, so that it does not once again become a major threat to European stability.

I regret that is has taken so long for us to reach this historic juncture and that the Bush Administration has not always given the issues of Kosova, Serbia's democratic future, and the Balkans the attention they deserve. This has helped contribute to the complicated and risky situation on the ground in the Balkans that we still face today. I look forward to working with the democratic leaders in this region and will once again make the full integration of the Western Balkans into Europe and the Euro-Atlantic community the priority it should be.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/blog /
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. He'll simply invite all concerned parties over for tea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Yes, diplomacy is the wrong idea.
Carpet bomb them and hunt down those WMDs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. Really, as Obama has often quoted JFK, "... Never fear to negotiate".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. LOL FUNNY
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why not ask the same thing of Hillary?
Or, has she already released a statement?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. Hillary is about solutions. Listen to tonight's debate and learn. (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Keep on underestimating Obama
Please do
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
64. I think Hillary is about pithy one-liners, myself
I'm not impressed with her solutions, but I notice she's pretty heavy on the old slogans; just as many of ther supporters are heavy on the one-line 'arguments' on DU which are usually no more than assertions.

For example, what's Hillary's solution to dealing with the problems of the Middle East and terrorism? We know Barack's solution: get out of Iraq, engage in agressive face-to-face diplomacy in year one, purusue Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants wherever they are, with or without help from the locals.

From what Hillary says, her foriegn policy appears to be get the troops out of Iraq, and then do not do anything Barack Obama is suggesting until she's had more time to think about it. Some solution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. The candidates probably should not meddle today
Given that our embassy may be under siege.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The embassy is burning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Exactly and it may be that neither Obama or Clinton have been fully briefed yet
Obama may actually have more information than Clinton. He is on the SFRC and chairs the subcommittee on Europe - so he has staffers who are experts on this area. (Yeah, I know Clark was the NATO general with a history in that area and Holbroke was involved in the diplomacy.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
57. Yes, it is funny that
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 02:13 PM by tabatha
Clark was against the Iraq war; Holbrooke was for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Looks like no employees are in the embassy
All sent home yesterday. But I do think the candidates will deflect policy questions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. America wants to know which candidate is "ready on day one".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. If American lives in Belgrade are in danger the candidates will refrain...
...from specifics. And Hillary Clinton is in a difficult position since her husband's administration took sides. I imagine they're planning for questions and will need to tread carefully.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #48
65. Expect more Obama double talk. When pressed for specifics he's like
a fish out of water.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kosovo is no easy mater to resolve... It might seem simple enough...
but IMO one should do some serious tap dancing prior to just taking a side of having Kosovo sucede...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The US has already taken a side. Now, and 14 years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I don't think that they took a side on sucession, I think they took a side on...
ethnic cleansing... At least thats the way I read it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. No, the US, as well as the UK have already recognized the new nation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Exactly.. Bush did this yesterday. He was even a little premature on the announcement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I do believe that an independent Kosovo has been US policy for some time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Well the US and UK are just flat wrong again without sitting down with all ...
parties involved and having a serious discussion of the Pros and Cons...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Are you acquainted enough with this most recent development to explain
it to me? Didn't Bush come out yesterday and congratulate/recognize Kosovo? And why are the people in Belgrade protesting?

Sorry.. haven't really kept up with the Serbia stuff. I don't understand why Kosovo becoming independent is cause for protest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. He did as did the UK and others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. I can't believe I am reading these things on DU
22 countries have come out in support of Kosovo's Independence.

From www.kosovothanksyou.com:

Gracias!!!
Costa Rica Recognition Text (February 17, 2008 Local Time)
Thank You!!!
United States Recognition Text (February 18, 2008)
Merci!!!
France Recognition Text (February 18, 2008)
Thank You!!!
United Kingdom Recognition Text (February 18, 2008)
Tashakkur! Merci!!!
Afghanistan Recognition Text (February 18, 2008)
Faleminderit!!!
Albania Recognition Text (February 18, 2008)
Tesekkürler!!!
Turkey Recognition Text (February 18, 2008)
Thank You!!!
Australia Recognition Text (February 19, 2008)
Merci! Jërëjëf!!!
Senegal Recognition Text (February 19, 2008)
Tusen takk!!!
Norway Recognition Text (February 20, 2008)
Terima kasih!!!
Malaysia Recognition Text (February 20, 2008)
Danke!!!
Germany Recognition Text (February 20, 2008)
Paldies!!!
Latvia Recognition Text (February 20, 2008)
Tak!!!
Denmark Recognition Text (February 21, 2008)
Merci! Danke!!!
Luxembourg Recognition Text (February 21, 2008)
Tänan!!!
Estonia Recognition Text (February 21, 2008)
Grazie Mille!!!
Italy Recognition Text (February 21, 2008)
Dank u! Merci! !!!
Belgium
Kiitos!!!
Finland
Labai achiu!!!
Lithuania Recognition Text
Danke schön!!!
Austria Recognition Text
Hvala lepa!!!
Slovenia

28 more set to recognize Kosovo:
Bulgaria
Canada
Cote d'Ivoire
Croatia
Czech Republic
Fiji
Hungary Recognition Announcement
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Japan
Kuwait
Macedonia
Malta
Mauritania
Monaco
Montenegro
Morocco
Netherlands
Pakistan
Poland Recognition Announcement
Portugal
Saudi Arabia
Sweden
Switzerland
Tonga
Tunisia
Tuvalu

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I wasn't taking a position, 48.. just trying to catch up on my World History ! :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. I'm not at all saying that they shouldn't sucede... but it should be discussed...
the immediate countries; ie: Serbia and Russia to find out why they object....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. It's Not Up To Russia To Determine Which Nation Is And Which Nation Isn't Worthy Of Independence
~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. I didn't say it was up to Russia to make a decission, but neither is it up to the US....
So dialog should take place with the countries that are most effected is all I am saying... ie: Serbia, Russia, Kosovo to find out why Serbia and Russia are against the split.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Because The Serbs Are Their Historic Allies And The Serbs Want To Control A People Who Don't Want
To Be Controlled...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
51. Serbia is losing more territory
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 02:06 PM by 48percenter
they lost Croatia (and its tourism dollars) and the Russians are afraid of their territories that would like to secede e.g. (Chechnya) Spain is afraid of the Basque region and Catalonia. The Greeks are afraid of Cyprus. The Turks get credit, because even though the Kurds would like to secede, they recognized Kosovo's independence.

Just what we talked about in class today.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. Good summary, thanks 48.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
59. secede not sucede
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Thanks for your correction.. lol n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
69. Good Lord, they've been discussing it for 10 years
Meanwhile, Kosovo has been caught in some middle ground as a UN protectorate. The Russians have blocked every single effort to resolve the issues.

And since Kosovo is not a nation, they are unable to negotiate trade agreements and have had a very hard time attracting foreign investment. Unemployment is high, and as a result crime and violence are high too. They really couldn't afford to wait any longer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. They got rid of Milosevic (The brutal dictator) and there now should be...
some dialog with Serbia, Russia, etc before Kosovo Secedes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Talks have evidently already taken place. This is a done deal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. Serbs brutally repressed the ethnically european muslims in
their area. The US under Clinton bombed Serbia to stop their ethnic cleansing. An agreement was signed and the UN with a large US presence maintains a peace keeping force their.

Most of the people are ethnic Albanians who are Muslims deeply devoted to the US now because of our intervention there and assisting in Albania. The Islamic world in the middle east and elsewhere basically has done nothing to help these people.

Serbians deeply resent the bombing and the later prosecution of their leaders on War Crimes
quote
On January 16 1999, the bodies of 45 Albanian civilians were found in the town of Racak. The United Nations' Hague Court accused the Serbian forces, headed by Slobodan Milosevic, of these murders; the Hague trial ended without a conviction, due to Milosevic's death.<26><27>

However, according to the German newspaper "Berliner Zeitung," Finnish pathologist Helena Ranta, who was assigned by the EU as the head of the team sent to investigate the Racak incident, "...expressed lack of comprehension regarding the work of the UN's Hague tribunal in the case of the so-called massacre of Racak." Ranta also criticized that "...Indications of serious fighting between Serbian soldiers and Albanian fighters on the night of 15th to 16th of January, 1999, in the Racak area had been inadequately pursued."<28>

The Racak Massacre was instrumental in increasing the pressure on Serbia in the following conference at Rambouillet. After more than a month of negotiations, Yugoslavia refused to sign the prepared agreement, primarily, it has been argued, because of a clause giving NATO forces access rights to not only Kosovo but to all of Yugoslavia (which the Yugoslav side saw as tantamount to military occupation). unquoted

Kosovo has declared independence and is supported by the United States. Europe is split. Russia is deeply hostile to it. It is a direct challenge to its ally and also to a nascent democratic movement on its border. They are encouraging Serbia to take action

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kosovo02.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. So, its a Russian/Serbia protest, anti-democracy thing.. I remember very
well the horror of Serbia in the 90s,the genocide, Milosevic, the trial, the mass graves, the bombings.. but as with just about everything (including Katrina, etc) when there is nothing left for the media "to see", they lose interest and quit covering.

I actually had no idea that Kosovo had plans to sucede. Thanks for the info !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. Here's some background
Admittedly it's very biased. But, it gives the reader a sense of where the Serbs are coming from on this topic.

http://www.beotel.yu/~pejin/history.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Thanks :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
68. "serious tap dancing". Yup, you'll witness quite a bit in tonight's debate. (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Seems to me the problem was about as "solved" as
it's going to get by Bill Clinton back in the 90's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
35. There will always be an issue for many years
The Serbians and the Albanians are always at edge with each other. The US supports Kosovo and Serbians hate us. When you get these groups together at a sporting event like tennis or soccer these groups are fighting each other at these events. I've seen them protest each other on tv at these events. What do y'all think Bush is going to do???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Oh geez.. can we just kick him out of office and move up the GE ??? I shudder to
think of what he'll do. He congratulated/recognized Kosovo yesterday, so this is a direct conflict with US v Russia/Putin

Nice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
40. Obama on Kosovo
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Text below.. thanks for the link !
Chicago, IL | February 17, 2008
Chicago, IL - Senator Barack Obama today released the following statement on the independence of Kosovo and its implications for Serbia.

"Today's announcement of independence by the leadership of Kosovo ends a chain of events that began with the bloody break-up of the former Yugoslavia. Kosovo's independence is a unique situation resulting from the irreparable rupture Slobodan Milosevic's actions caused; it is in no way a precedent for anyone else in the region or around the world.

"Kosovo's independence carries with it important responsibilities. The international community has devoted enormous resources to Kosovo's political, economic and social development for nearly a decade, with results not always meeting expectations. I hope that Kosovo's government and people act with urgency to ensure that Kosovo becomes a positive example of democratic governance and the rule of law. All the people of Kosovo, be they of Albanian, Serb or other origin, must be able to live in a free, tolerant and prosperous society where minority rights and religious sites are fully protected, and the people of Kosovo have a stake in one another's success.

"Serbia and its people have also suffered terribly over the past two decades. Serbs deserve a more peaceful, prosperous, and hopeful future. This month's re-election of President Boris Tadic was a critical step in moving Serbia closer to the goal of full integration into the democratic West, including membership in Euro-Atlantic institutions that can help bring more stability and prosperity to the people of Serbia. Serbia ultimately belongs in the European Union. The EU and Serbia should rapidly deepen their ties, a move that would help demonstrate to the Serb people that they are indeed genuinely part of the West.

"I honor the service of all Americans, military and civilian, who have worked so hard to bring peace to the Balkans. The United States must continue to work with our European allies on behalf of the security and prosperity of the entire region. I am convinced that, with our support, Serbia and Kosovo can emerge as models of democratic and economic growth, and their people can know a bright future."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. KGardner Obama is in step with the Bush administration on this
That said, I don't know enough about the issues to take sides with Kosovo and the Serbians. However, I haven't seen what Hillary's opinion is on Kosovo's independents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. I imagine the position nearly has to be pro-democracy and support with the rest of
Europe. According to Wes Clark, this is what is has to be and NATO forces will enforce the will of an Independent Kosovo.

"You can't make concessions at a time like this, stand your ground.." - Wes Clark

So Obama's position is most likely what Hillary's will be. We'll see :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC