TPM: Obama Campaign: Pro-Hillary 527 Is Blatantly Illegal

[madfloridian]

Glad they are speaking out. The one that formed to "take Dean down" was blatantly illegal as well, but it did no good when he spoke out.
In case you forgot...

Remember David Jones and his little 527 Osama ad against Dean? View it now.

So I say good for the Obama campaign for speaking out. And the Hillary campaign does have a way to stop it from happening if they want to do it.

Obama Campaign: Pro-Hillary 527 Is Blatantly Illegal

The Obama campaign has some very strong words for the American Leadership Project, the 527 that was set up to run ads on Hillary Clinton's behalf. In a conference call with reporters today, campaign general counsel Bob Bauer asserted quite confidently that the ALP is an illegal group, set up as a "rescue operation" to circumvent campaign finance statutes and FEC regulations by raising unlimited amounts of money to run ads for Hillary.

In a move that suggests he might be trying to frighten donors away from even contributing to the effort, Bauer went so far as to say that the donors to the ALP, by helping to organize this group with contributions of as much as $100,000 each, were also going to be legally liable and subject to civil and criminal investigation by the government.

"This is not a case where there's room for argument. This is not a case where they'll be spared by some version of Philadelphia lawyering," Bauer said. "This is absolutely a cold, calculated move to violate the law for the benefit of the candidate, and to assume that any penalty will be so deferred into the future that the immediate benefits can be gained now without consequence."

Yes, it is cold and calculating....just like the Democratic group that said their sole purpose was "taking down Howard Dean."

[Captain Hilts]

1. What about what moveon.org is doing for Obama? nt

[madfloridian]

2. I don't believe you asked that.

I really don't.

[Captain Hilts]

18. A friend of mine is a regional coordinator for moveon.org and she's very concerned they...

endorsed anyone.

I'm confused by how/if this changes their tax status.

[madfloridian]

43. There are two groups within MoveOn. One is a PAC, one is not.

:shrug:

[MADem]

7. Owch, owch, OUUUUUUUCH!!! That shoe hurts like a baaastid on that other foot, dunnit?

They didn't waste time crying about it, though, did they?

[KittyWampus]

16. actually, MoveOn hasn't aired any tv ads. So it's irrelevant.

[MADem]

It doesn't matter. They're an "interest group" that has endorsed a candidate.

Perception is all that matters.

[grantcart]

39. has anyone accused them of having any contacts with the Obama campaign?

It is 2 entirely different circumstances.

1) One is an organization that has a permanent structure a wide membership base and engages in various campaigns and policy disputes based on their members interest.

2) One is formed solely for a particular campaign and has no transparency on who they are. If it is set up so that maxed up Clinton supporters can give beyond the legal amount it would be unethical. If they co-ordinate it would be illegal. If for, example this group ends up withe Hillary's contributors list, it would be a violation of law.

[MADem]

53. Uh, they've had "contacts" with The Messiah himself.

http://moveon.org/press/pr/obamaendorsementrelease.html

They're WORKING for him. ACTIVELY.

Issue group, my ass.

Ooops.

[grantcart]

55. tell me you have something more substantive than boring unimaginative sarcasm

[MADem]

64. See that thing with the underline beneath it? That's called a LINK. It's SUBSTANTIVE.

It speaks quite plainly to the issue at hand.

Tell me you're going to work on that reading comprehension....but that's way too much to expect. You like to shoot first, which is why your aim always sucks.

[grantcart]

65. There is no issue for reasons that have been explained

I understand how frustrated it can be when you are so invested in a candidate and they are on their way out but calling him Messiah

and calling an endorsement of an organization that had a vote is so predictable it was outlined a month ago (see below). Do you think on these

thin reeds lies a compelling argument to lead this country. Now your just waisting peoples time. And for people who are so intellectually striken that they refuse to engage there is only the option of ignore. Good luck.


Stage I When you do not have the best position on the war - prevaricate

Stage II When you do not have the clear voice of leadership - triangulate

Stage III When you do not have the momentum - trivialize the election just lost

Stage IV When you do not have anywhere to go - instigate a smear on the supporters as unthinking cultists

Stage V When the supporters embrace the slur and turn it around - start backing up the dump truck and release a load
against the leader who has sparked a fire across the country.

Stage VI When this desperate tactic is reviled - step aside as the great locomotive of history barrels by you and you turn to watch history pass you by.

[MADem]

66. I understand how nervous you can be when confronted with facts, requiring obfuscation

to maintain "belief" in your Chosen One.

We aren't talking about the war, that Obama funded enthusiastically along with EVERYONE else.

We aren't even talking about triangulating on the gay issue, the immigration issue, or the pandering to Reagan fans.

We aren't even talking about momentum.
Or slurs. Or dump trucks. Or even unmentionables, like the RACE card.

But we are talking about a very simple MOVEON matter, that is fact. And you can't handle the Truth, so you talk about Stages and bullshit.


I will say one thing, you Scientologists Obama fans--heh, easy to confuse them--are certainly predictable.

Don't be overconfident about your "locomotive of history." When the choo choo goes off the tracks, you might be surprised at how many of those Independents, dilettantes and other assorted assholes decide to take the Straight Talk Express instead.

And if that does happen, I (who unlike most of YOUR snarky brethren, will vote for the Dem nominee no matter who it is) will lay the blame squarely where it belongs--on the rude, snarky, shitty, immature and overbearing Obama-ites who really go out of their way to be the most overbearing children on the net, nowadays.

[KittyWampus]

13. Have they aired any tv ads? Hmmm? Was MoveOn JUST formed before an Ohio election?

[bunnies]

MoveOn is a PAC.

Not a 527. Big difference in how they function.

[tishaLA]

3. Now THAT shit is hardball

And everybody was worried Obama was too soft.

[xultar]

4. Wasn't there a Pro OBama 527 blasting Edwards in IA?

[madfloridian]

6. Well, could you name it?

?

[xultar]

11. Nope, can't name it. Not paying that close of attention. You can tell cuz I was wrong as fuck.

[tishaLA]

8. I think it was the other way around

from Iowa SEIU, IIRC.

[xultar]

9. You are absolutely right. I was so wrong on that one. Thanks for correcting me. X

[jasmine621]

12. Stop it, girl. You are too good. nt

[cali]

28. No. It was the other way around

There was a PAC that ran ads for Edwards run by an ex-campaign manager of his that ran ads against Obama.

[karynnj]

62. No there was a pro Edwards 527, run by a former Edwards campaign manager

here is a DU post on it, with a couple good links:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3882902&mesg_id=3882902

[DJ13]

5. Sounds like a perfect debate gotcha for Obama to hit Hillary with tonight

Will she publicly disavow them?

I cant wait to see her sputtering on that one!

[MADem]

10. She can easily counter with the MOVEON business. "You FIRST."

And then he's on his heels.

[jasmine621]

14. And maybe more. I hope her campaign has their shit together. nt

[DJ13]

15. MoveOn is a legitimate organization

Suck on THAT.

[MADem]

40. "Suck on THAT." Wow, how mature of you!! Good thing you aren't

an Obama spokesperson...or ARE you?

:rofl:

Just lie still and try not to be too agitated, help will be here soon....

[KittyWampus]

19. you don't know what you're talking about. MoveOn has not aired any tv ads and they existed prior

to this primary and they focus on issues.

You embarrass yourself.

[Jai4WKC08]

26. Focus on issues? Not any more

I got an e-mail from MoveOn organizing members to make calls for Obama. That's campaigning any way you cut it.

[sniffa]

33. If I were you, I'd unsubscribe

and then start an indignant thread here about the experience. :thumbsup:

[madfloridian]

36. LOL

:rofl:

[MADem]

35. No, you embarrass yourself. You always say that when you can't argue meaningfully.

It's like a little catchphrase you whip out when you got nuthin...! And you whip it out all the time!



They endorsed him, and --as you yourself noted--they have always been an ISSUE group, not a CANDIDATE group, up to now.

[Marie26]

56. It's not MOVEON, Obama's got his own: VOTE HOPE

Move On is legit, because it's actually a separate independent org. - not just one created for a Presidential candidate. Obama has his own 527s & PACs that are solely devoted to promoting Obama & attacking his rivals - that's borderline illegal.

Obama's supporters get around money limit

Lance Williams, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, August 8, 2007

California supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama are using a controversial political committee to rake in donations in excess of what is allowed under tough federal campaign finance laws.

Exploiting a legal loophole, the Obama supporters have set up a so-called 527 group - an unregulated committee of the type deployed by Republican Swift Boat Veterans in the 2004 presidential campaign - as a centerpiece of political fundraising for the California Democratic primary in February.

So far, wealthy donors have written checks in the amounts of $90,000 and $50,000 to "Vote Hope 2008," the Obama supporters' 527 group, federal records show. The group is led by San Francisco lawyer Steve Phillips, son-in-law of wealthy financier and Democratic political donor Herbert Sandler.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/08/08/MN9JREV751.DTL&type=printable

[Barack_America]

21. Not a gotcha. He should use it to highlight his success in getting the ethics bill passed...

...and then mention that this group in support of Hillary is in violation of that.

[madfloridian]

17. Here's the nasty 427 ad against Dean. The terror and fear worked.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1807

And it was played by our own party against a candidate. When Dean asked for help he was called a whiner by the party insiders.

We can not keep doing this to each other.

[madfloridian]

20. Stop the comparison to Move On.

There is no comparison. Move On took a vote, it is funded by its members and they took a vote.

It is a legitimate group with many successes to its credit.

The 527 is a hit group by Hillary supporters which her campaign is choosing to ignore.

Don't show your ignorance by comparing the two.

[UALRBSofL]

22. It isn't illegal and if I were the group organizer I'd tell Bob Bauer

I'll see you in court. This is what is known as threat tactics. You know the ole saying, If I get an attorney to write a letter it will cause the party to cease and desist. So, In response to his threats I would say, see you in court.

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. "Obama's supporters get around money limit"

Obama's supporters get around money limit
Lance Williams, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, August 8, 2007

California supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama are using a controversial political committee to rake in donations in excess of what is allowed under tough federal campaign finance laws.

Exploiting a legal loophole, the Obama supporters have set up a so-called 527 group - an unregulated committee of the type deployed by Republican Swift Boat Veterans in the 2004 presidential campaign - as a centerpiece of political fundraising for the California Democratic primary in February.

So far, wealthy donors have written checks in the amounts of $90,000 and $50,000 to "Vote Hope 2008," the Obama supporters' 527 group, federal records show. The group is led by San Francisco lawyer Steve Phillips, son-in-law of wealthy financier and Democratic political donor Herbert Sandler.

Named for the section of the U.S. tax code that regulates these groups - and independent of the input or control of political candidates - 527 groups aren't subject to the Federal Election Commission's legal limit on contributions of $2,300 per donor per election.

The same Obama supporters have also set up a political action committee - the type of fund-raising device used by special-interest groups to funnel donations to multiple candidates - and used it to raise money for Obama's California campaign, records show. The political action committee also is called "Vote Hope 2008."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/08/08/MN9JREV751.DTL&type=printable

[madfloridian]

30. The ALF was formed as an anti-Obama group apparently.

That would make a difference. Legal, I don't know, but they are skirting the edges because they were formed to go against another Democrat.

http://blog.dispatch.com/dailybriefing/2008/02/proclinton_dems_to_start_antio_1.shtml

[Tom Rinaldo]

34. If they operate as visciously as the Anti-Dean group did

I'll be pissed at them. If they support Clinton in ways similar to how most Unions support the candidates they support, I'll consider it standard politics. I doubt it is illegal and it seems to use the same legal structure as "Vote Hope". I would be fine with banning these types of 527's but it seems some have sprung up to help all three of the leading Democratic candidates this year. It is par for the course for all legal avenues to be used in races like this.

[AX10]

24. MoveOn.org has endorsed Obama.

Hypocracy from Saint Obama is expected to be a normal practice, always!

Moveon.org :puke:

[bunnies]

32. MoveOn is a PAC. Not a 527. Big difference. nt

[jillan]

25. There was a 527 running for Obama in California over last summer,

They raised $$ for Obama (even tho Obama doesn't take $ from 527s)
It was called Vote Hope.

Now this pops up for Hillary.


527's are going to pop up - and you know they will.


You shouldn't make this an attack on Hillary because a 527 is supporting her.
If it gets dirty, than I expect her to demand them to stop.

Personally, I would like to see ALL 527's be shut down.

[madfloridian]

Her campaign response....

we don't know anything about it so we can't comment.

[jillan]

44. And your point is?

That they're lying???

hmmmm. Hate to be the one to break it to you ~ Politicians do lie.

Just like Obama didn't know anything about Vote Hope when it was raising money for him.
:eyes:

[madfloridian]

48. Excuse me? Don't make up stuff I said. That infuriates me so much.

I did not say anything like that at all.

[ProSense]

27. More:

ALP responds: 'Legal bullying'

American Leadership Project spokesman Roger Salazar e-mails:

There isn’t anything in our efforts that would warrant such a barefaced attempt to quell free speech with this kind of unsupported legal bullying.

The American Leadership Project was organized in strict adherence to all new federal rules and regulations as a result of a recent Supreme Court decision. It was established to highlight issues of importance to middle-class families. The type of 527 we have organized does not intend to engage in express advocacy or the functional equivalent of express advocacy and so will not qualify as a political committee under the Federal Election Commission rules, but it will, however, fund “electioneering communications” — ads that feature a candidate and run within the 30 days before the election — and so will have reporting requirements with the FEC as well as the IRS. We intend to be open, transparent and to make all full and appropriate disclosures as required by the law.

Former FEC commissioner (and anti-regulation advocate) Brad Smith's group has their back.

Yeah, Brad Smith's group has their back:

About Center for Competitive Politics

The Center for Competitive Politics is a non-profit organization founded in November, 2005 by former FEC Chairman Bradley A. Smith, professor of law at Capital University Law School and of counsel to Vorys, Sater, Seymour, and Pease, and Stephen M. Hoersting, campaign finance attorney and former general counsel to the National Republican Senatorial Committee. CCP's mission, through legal briefs, studies, historical and constitutional analyses, and media communication is to educate the public on the actual effects of money in politics, and the results of a more free and competitive electoral process.

CCP is recognized as a 501(c)(3) corporation under the Internal Revenue Code, and contributions are tax deductible in accordance with the Code.

link

Independent Group to Air TV Ads Echoing Clinton Attacks on Obama

By Matthew Mosk
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 21, 2008; Page A07

<...>

Campaign finance reform experts said there are troubling aspects in the American Leadership Project's mission. The group is not part of an established effort to exert political influence in Washington, and it first officially surfaced in filings with the Internal Revenue Service on Feb. 15. It is advertising only in states where Clinton faces competitive primary contests. And the content of its first ad strongly hints that its purpose is to support her candidacy and oppose Obama's.

"This pop-up 527 group clearly has been created to spend unlimited soft money to influence the presidential election," said Fred Wertheimer, of the group Democracy 21, after reviewing the ad. "As far as the duck test goes: It looks like a campaign ad; it sounds like a campaign ad; it's a campaign ad."

Jason Kinney, a California political strategist who helped form the group, said its organizers recognized that they are wading into "a new and developing area of the law, but we've taken every step and are as confident as we can be that we are adhering to all of the regulations."

The Obama campaign released a memo yesterday saying that the group has already crossed those lines. "Here we have a committee that springs up on the eve of an election, promotes a specific candidate, and has no history or apparent purpose of lobbying specific issues outside the benefit to the candidate of these communications," the memo states. "Its 'major purpose' is no mystery."

The undertaking could also prove embarrassing. One of the group's founders, New York political strategist Paul Rivera, is a veteran of the Clinton White House and Kerry's presidential campaign. But a year ago, he reached out to Obama's campaign for consulting work. In a Feb. 23, 2007, memo that he sent to the campaign, Rivera described Clinton's candidacy as "doing the same, old traditional politics," and he added that "Senator Obama has a potent change message and is clearly a superior political talent."

Rivera confirmed yesterday that the memo was his, but he declined to comment on it. Kinney said all he knew about Rivera was that "he cares about the same issues we care about." He would not identify any of the group's financial patrons.

more

[Capn Sunshine]

29. It's always Hillary's people who think the rules are for suckers

That has been my objection to her candidacy from day one; too many of the people surrounding her are just in it for the poer, and have a demonstrated record of not playing by the rules.

There's a reason her donors are always going to jail.

Look I'm not pretending politics is all clean, and that our operatives are simon-pure; but these guys alway view "the line" as the place that the suckers won't cross, and the place that defines their advantage.

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. Honest question. How was "Vote Hope" different in structure? n/t

[UALRBSofL]

37. It wasn't any different and so what I would do

is not give it a second thought. One campaign files a suit and the other files a counter suit. That said, I wouldn't bow down on this to St. Obama's feet because he's using the judicial system in a illegal and corrupt way.

[Capn Sunshine]

54. It was WAY different- The Obama Campaign asked them to stop. Not so Clinton campaign on the OP 527

that is a HUGE difference.

[Tom Rinaldo]

63. You showed me him asking supporters to contribute directly to him instead

when he was asked by the media if his stance on Vote Hope" was hypocritical.

Do you have a link for Obama actually asking "Vote Hope" to shut down their operations?

[Capn Sunshine]

42. Vote Hope was asked to cease and desist by the campaign several times

I don't think the same can be said of Clinton's campaign.

Obama blasts shadow fundraising group
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama publicly urged his supporters today not to contribute to independent and unregulated groups -

particularly so-called 527 organizations -- that are currently raising money to aid his cause, saying that if backers give directly to his campaign instead, "we'll all be better off.''

The Illinois senator's comments came in response to a Chronicle story published today that detailed an effort by wealthy Bay Area backers to create a 527 group, independent of the campaign, to raise large donations and expand voter registration and turnout for Obama in the February 2008 California presidential primary.
link

[jillan]

45. Yeah - after the raised $$ for him, and after the msm began reporting on it.

"Get Real".

[Tom Rinaldo]

47. That was NOT Vote Hope. You link to a completely different group that seems to have been a scam

And a scam posing as an official Obama for President site to boot. They raised money from the general public supposedly for Obama's camapaign and seemingly Obama never got a cent from it:

"Cash's "Californians for Obama" boasted an official-looking Web site (www.californiansforobama.com) that was graced by a smiling photo of the candidate. The site pitched a star-studded Obama "Women of Power" cruise for 2,000 to Mexico that attracted donors like a 65-year-old woman from Compton (Los Angeles County), who said she has paid the $2,423 cruise fee believing the funds would help support her candidate.

But a Chronicle examination of the latest Federal Election Commission records on file for the organization for the reporting period ending June 30 shows that while Cash has raised nearly $10,000 this year, not one dollar has gone to the Obama campaign -- or any other political candidate.

Indeed, nearly two thirds of the group's 2007 funding has already been paid out either to Cash himself -- for listed expenses such as salary and travel and snacks -- or to his organization's accounting firm, Burbank-based Durkee & Associates. Other expenses include U.S. postage and signs, the records show."

It is NOT the same as "Vote Hope".

[Capn Sunshine]

51. I posted the wrong article

read the new one. It's specific to Vote Hope.

[Tom Rinaldo]

61. OK, but Obama did not ask "Vote Hope" to "Cease and Desist"

He asked people who supported him to give their money directly to him instead:

"We do not think people should be donating to 527s. We would rather have them involved in our campaign."

It's a good statement from him but it was not directly asking Vote Hope to disband, and Obama made that comment after he was asked if his campaign was being hypocritical since they had blasted other 527's supporting other candidates before:

"Obama was asked if the independent organization raising money on his part suggested a hypocrisy and an effort to skirt campaign finance laws.

"It would be hypocrisy if I had anything to do with them, since I just heard of them,'' he said. "This is not something that I authorized or had any part of..."


It would have been hard for Obama to say, "This one is different - it's OK because it supports me". I consider his reply, at least as reported here, to be an honest and elequent dodge.

[Bread and Circus]

38. Is fairness a fundament liberal/progressive value?

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. I think so, which is why I keep asking what the difference is with "Vote Hope"? n/t

[UALRBSofL]

46. When you have independent groups you can't demand them

To cease and desist. Which goes back to one of the worse 527's I can remember, the Swiftboaters For Truth that ran smear campaigns against Kerry.

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. There is no indication that Obama wanted "Vote Hope" to cease and desist

Nor a legal reason why he should have wanted them to from what I can tell.

[madfloridian]

50. I get it. It's ok now. Defend the indefensible.

It is all just fine now.

[UALRBSofL]

57. madfloridian why do you just look for things

to flame Hillary over. That is very counterproductive but I don't think you care.

[madfloridian]

59. I don't flame. I tell the truth. Truth hurts sometimes. I was open minded...

until she started pushing for Florida delegates.

Now I am done keeping my mouth shut.

You are accusing me of flaming. That is a lie.

[Marie26]

52. Oh, please

And Obama's 527's aren't? How hypocritical.

[OzarkDem]

58. Obama's bluffing and whining

It's legal. And how is a 527 that promotes Clinton as a candidate interpreted as an attack on Obama?

[madfloridian]

60. If Hillary does it, it's okay. I am learning that quickly here.

In Florida it is the same way.