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Plagiarism Charges from Obamites are GARBAGE

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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:04 AM
Original message
Plagiarism Charges from Obamites are GARBAGE
Barak Obama, the candidate of HOPE, of CHANGE; the man his supportes say is so HONEST, and RESPECTFUL and GENUINE stole his entire campaign message, theme and motto.

Just NOT, as so many Obamites insist, from Deval Patrick, or with permission. Here's the Obama message, theme and motto all in one:

NOTE: Every time you see the word "(Response)" during this speech, what you hear from the WHOLE audience is "YES WE CAN!"


"We are the party of Lyndon Johnson and the Great Society. We are the party of John F. Kennedy and the New Frontier. We are the party of FDR and the New Deal. We are the party of the people. We are the party whose president faced a broken nation--a nation of people without jobs, without homes, without health care, without retirement security--and he exhorted our people to have courage. Seventy years ago, FDR stood before a fearful nation and said, We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And he ignited a nation to reaching its promise and that brought almost a hundred new Democrats into the House. It enabled a sweeping mandate to bring deep, transformational change to our social, our political, and our economic structures.

It remade a government of the people and for the people. That kind of change is needed today. We can empower a new beginning.

Democrats, I remind you that we have nothing to fear but fear itself. We need a new faith in America and in ourselves. Faith that we can change the present condition; faith that we can change the outcome; faith that we can regain the confidence, the optimism, the whole world has identified with America; faith that it is the Democratic party that can once again lead the way to a better day, to a better America, to a better world.

Democrats, Democrats can move this country forward from a condition where of 8 million people out of work to a full employment economy with a living wage for all. If you believe our party can do that, let us tell this nation yes we can. (scattered response "Yes we can.").

...

Democrats can move this country forward from 40 million people without health insurance to a single payer system which provides quality health care for all. Do you believe we can do that? (Response).

Yes we can. Si se puede.

Democrats can move this country forward from underfunded schools, underpaid teachers, and undereducated youths to making education our top funding priority and providing free college education for all. Do you believe we can do that? (Response).

Democrats can move this country forward from a condition where our air, our water and our land is now being ruined
by multinational corporate interests; where we can demonstrate that environmental protection is our path to sustaining the life of the planet. Do you believe we can do this as a party? (Response).

Yes we can. Si se puede.



---------------------------------------------
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dnc0203/kucin022203spt.html
Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich
Democratic National Committee Winter Meeting
Washington, DC
February 22, 2003
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sorry, I missing the point here.
"Nothing to fear but fear itself" is now a part of the common language. If I said "All's well that ends well" have I plagiarized Shakespeare?
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The message, the theme, the motto. All Kucinich.
If Obamites are so up in arms about the fact that Hillary used some of Edwards' words (most of which came from Kooch, as well), they are more than slightly hypocritical.

There isn't one thing about Obama's campaign that is genuine. It's ALL fake.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You don't get it and you're
so filled with rage that it's a waste of time to try and discuss anything with you. You've gone beyond sour grapes in raving and ranging. Pitiful.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I get it, and "it's" bullshit.
You haven't tried to discuss anything. I don't have sour grapes, I do not support Hillary, I just know that Obama is FAKE.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. um, I don't discuss things with people who
have tightly closed minds and are raving and ranting. It's fruitless.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. You have not discussed anything, yet, so far as I can tell.
Quit shooting the messenger. The number of threads bashing Hillary for plagiarizing Edwards seemed excessive and hypocritical to me, so I decided to start my own thread regarding the hypocrisy.

Go back to sulking in the corner then. If you are going to refuse to discuss ANYTHING, why bother responding at all?

Why bother responding that you are not responding?

Why the insults and childish bullshit?

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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Please stop taking so many drugs before posting.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. I have never done drugs in my life. I don't even take aspirin.
Responses like this, from people like you, are why GD-P is getting a bad rap, these days.

You have nothing to contribute and your post adds nothing to the discussion. If you don't want to respond to the post, just shut the fuck up and go back to sucking your thumb.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. i bet youve seen flying saucers though.
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mohc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Ugh
I never understand this kind of thinking. Person X attacks Person Y for doing something. Person Y says its not big deal. Person X starts doing the very thing they accused Person Y of doing. Person Y points this out. Person X decries Person Y for hypocrisy since they said it was no big deal.

The hypocrisy here is with Person X and only with Person X. Pointing out Clinton's hypocrisy on the plagiarism issue is not the same as attacking her for plagiarism. If Clinton, or anyone, attacks someone for doing something, then they better make sure they do not behave the same way. Obama supporters that are bringing up the plagiarism issue based on comments Clinton made in the debate are not attacking her for plagiarizing, but for the hypocrisy. And in convoluted counter attack, some Clinton supporters are accusing Obama supporters of hypocrisy because they previously said plagiarism is a non issue. I do not care if Clinton wants to adopt some of the message of other candidates, but if she does she better not be attacking Obama for doing the same.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. my ex did that all the time!
and always with a smug little smile. He knew exactly what he was doing, and so does Hillary.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. And before Kucinich
Farmworkers. Slaves and abolitionists. The Pointer Sisters.

Jesus H. Christ, stop it, all of you, just stop it.

THERE IS NOTHING ORIGINAL IN POLITICAL SPEECH. NOTHING.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Viva, Chavez. Si se puede!
I'm sure you could find something identical if you went back to the times that Cleon and Pericles duked it out for public office.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Exactly
This whole brouhaha, no matter which politician, is delusional. People so want to believe their candidates invented the ark.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. Don't all politicians sound alike at some point
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. FAAAAAKE!
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calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. I love Kucinich, but he doesn't own the copyright on optimism. And you misspelled 'Barack'.
The 'plagiarism' charge is a dumb one all around, but it's Hillary who brought it up.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I've seen at least six threads about Hillary plagiarizing Edwards today.
Edited on Fri Feb-22-08 09:34 AM by AlertLurker
It's absolutely hypocritical. Hillary is pretty stiff, at times, but there is nothing real about Obama, either.

Sorry about misspelling "Barack." I always seem to want to forget about the "c," for some reason.
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calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. It's all dumb. I wish Hillary hadn't brought it up in the first place. It's just a distraction.
Edited on Fri Feb-22-08 09:54 AM by calmblueocean
Now everyone is pointing at everyone and shouting "Plagiarism!!!" Plagiarism as a concept doesn't even apply in the same way to political speeches as it does to academic work. Political speeches are collaborative efforts by their very nature, ones in which the writers are understood to remain uncredited. That's what happened with Patrick and Obama. Patrick was an uncredited writer who suggested language. Hillary gives speeches all the time that are written by others. Her outrage over this is not genuine.

Then you have that second class of 'plagiarist' attacks, where a candidate echoes a line from another candidate not part of their campaign, like Hil did with Edwards close last night. This is not plagiarism, either. What Biden got in trouble for in 1988 was lifting a very specific piece of personal rhetoric from Neil Kinnock about his own life and family. That's plagiarism. Not just repeating an optimistic political theme or a snappy line.

Honestly, last night, Hillary had the chance to distance herself from the whole mess, and I wish she'd taken it. It would've showed stateswomanship and class. Instead she repeated and amplified it. That was the wrong move, and you could hear it from the crowd response. I still think Hil would make a good president, but I think her biggest problem this time around is that she didn't realize that the kind of attacks that work against Republicans don't work in a Democratic primary against an opponent that is generally well-liked.

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. my favorite was when Hillary referred to Bush using what I think is a Molly Ivins line
he's all hat and not cattle
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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. I think it's even funnier that Molly Ivins wrote that column stating she'd NEVER vote for HRC. (nt)
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. I miss Molly Ivins
she'd have a field day with this year's election
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. I said the word "and" before you. You plagiarizer!
DUers are so funny.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. Plagiarism Charges from anyone are GARBAGE
try not to be an idiot
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Nice post, Hitler.
Edited on Fri Feb-22-08 10:16 AM by AlertLurker
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mohc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Hitler?
Really?
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. sigh.
Some days, well...just sigh.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
25. Of course they are
Thats the point. Not real bright are you? Hillary's plagiarism charge was completely ridiculous as well and its entirely appropriate she is getting hammered for her similar circumstances after throwing out such lame stuff.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Not the point I was making, however.
I agree in principle. If Obama wasn't running on "Change, Hope and Integrity," however I would agree completely.

My point was simply that it is highly ironic and more than slightly hypocritical to charge Hillary with false cries of "plagiarism" regarding her sign off in the debate (as I have seen six or seven threads doing this morning), when your own candidate is running his campaign entirely on ideas pilfered from others.

As to your "not too bright" comment regarding myself:

I am certainly bright enough to see when someone is full of shit - whether it is Obama, or just little attack chihuahuas like yourself.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Again you miss the point
Its pointing out her hypocrisy it has nothing to do with her actually plagiarizing. Though she surely lifted it. Just as she was spoon fed her Xerox line.

There is no doubt at all that he is a better speaker than her. All this plagiarism thing does is point out how ridiculous her charges were to begin with and make her Xerox comment a laughing stock.

But rail against the machine if you must. Just don't be surprised when people laugh at you.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. As I said previously. It has nothing to do with the point I was making.
I wrote the original post, remember?

You responded that I was missing the point.

I responded that I understood what you were saying (and I don't agree with it, either) but that it wasn't the point I was tring to make - which, once again is:

"My point was simply that it is highly ironic and more than slightly hypocritical to charge Hillary with false cries of "plagiarism" regarding her sign off in the debate (as I have seen six or seven threads doing this morning), when your own candidate is running his campaign entirely on ideas pilfered from others."

Once again:

"...it is highly ironic and more than slightly hypocritical...when your own candidate is running his campaign entirely on ideas pilfered from others."




Get that? Good.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. It makes your point irelevant.
As it is intended to do.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. You are completely full of shit.
Responding to an argument with a couple logical fallacies does not make your point. It only makes you look like an asshole trying to hijack a thread you don't understand or agree with.

Grow up. There are six or seven "Hillary is a Hypocrite" threads doing the rounds today. Go piss on one of them, please.


Here we go again, folks!

"...it is highly ironic and more than slightly hypocritical...when your own candidate is running his campaign entirely on ideas pilfered from others."

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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. But plagiarism charges from Shillbots are okay? Pass that shit around.
I want what you're smoking.

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