Clinton: We will fight for Michigan, Florida delegates.

[jezebel]

From an interview given this morning:
In some of her strongest language on the topic, Clinton says she will press the issue and denies agreeing with the decision to not seat the states’ delegations at the Denver convention.

Tells Texas Monthly’s Evan Smith that she agreed only to not campaign there, and doesn’t want “to be disenfranchising Michigan and Florida.”


http://thepage.time.com/excerpt-of-clinton-interview-with-texas-monthly/
Excerpt of Clinton Interview with Texas MonthlyEvan Smith: There’s been a lot of talk about what your campaign would do should it get to the convention. Would you commit today to honoring the agreement made earlier not to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations?

Clinton: Let’s talk about the agreement. The only agreement I entered into was not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. It had nothing to do with not seating the delegates. I think that’s an important distinction. I did not campaign–

Smith: The press seems to have missed the distinction if that’s the case. The talk is that you agreed not to seat the delegation.

Clinton: That’s not the case at all. I signed an agreement not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. Now, the DNC made the determination that they would not seat the delegates, but I was not party to that. I think it’s important for the DNC to ask itself, Is this really in the best interest of our eventual nominee? We do not want to be disenfranchising Michigan and Florida. We have to try to carry both of those states. I’d love to carry Texas, but it’s usually not in the electoral calculation for the Democratic nominee. Florida and Michigan are. Therefore, the people of those two states disregarded adamantly the DNC’s decision that they would not seat the delegates. They came out and voted. If they had been influenced by the DNC, despite the fact that there was very little campaigning, if any, they would have stayed home. But they wanted their voices heard. More than 2 million people came out. I mean, it was record turnout for a primary. Florida, in particular, is sensitive to being disenfranchised because of what happened to them in the last elections. I have said that I would ask my delegates to vote to seat.

Smith: So your intention is to press this issue?

Clinton: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. It’s in large measure because both the voters and elected officials in Michigan and Florida feel so strongly about this. Senator Bill Nelson, of Florida, early on in the process actually sued because he thinks it’s absurd on its face that 1.7 million Democrats who eventually voted would basically be disregarded, and I agree with him about that.

[liberalnurse]

1. She earned them....they voted for her...

They will be counted....Hillary will win. John Edwards is a Queen-maker.

[LakeSamish706]

4. Yep, and if she does this she will tear the party apart but we all know that...

the Clintons don't give a rats ass about that.

[Window]

30. And I'll have to take back all the nice things I've saying about her.

LOL!



Peace:thumbsup:

[liberalnurse]

32. Like Obamarites haven't already given it the first ripping.

She earned them fair and square....They must count all the votes! Obama knows this......why do you think he sucked up to John Edwards?

[stevietheman]

49. That is a lie and you know it! Florida Dems *knew* the delegates...

based on their votes were not going to be seated in advance!!! Most Democratic candidates didn't campaign there for this reason. It would absolutely be unfair to seat the delegates based on the primary vote.

[Obamanaut]

58. True that! nt

[MonkeyFunk]

64. and yet 1.7 million voters

came out - more than double the number in 2004. I don't know how you can say it's not valid - they had a much higher turnout than most other contests this year.

[jasmine621]

66. "Knowing" and "agreeing" are two different things in my mind.

Hillary says she agreed to not camapign in MI and FL. She never said she "didn't know" they wouldn't be seated. She said she disagreed with that decision and that the DNC made that rule, she did not.

[Little Star]

97. Do you not think there is the possibility, that this party may be

just as torn apart if Obama wins? Think on that for a while. There are many of us who think he sucks and we are not very happy about how he has not been fully vetted and how some just want to anoint him. I personally can not stand the revival meeting feel, of his campaign. I also think he is one of the most arrogant men I have ever seen. I think FL & MI should have their delegates seated, Hillary earned those votes with no campaigning and she 'ONLY' agreed to not campaign, the DNC added that those delegates would not be seated. I want to know all there is to know, about the Rezko problem, the William Ayers Problem, the Rashid Khalidi problem. I would also like to know how anyone can explain Obama's church, The Trinity United Church of Christ and his non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
The Trinity United Church of Christ's 10-point Vision:
A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

How can he be POTUS and have a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA?????????????????

If you think this party will not possibly be torn apart by him getting the nod. Think again.

[golddigger]

9. Yep, and this is why Obama supporters are in total panic mode.

[cali]

48. is that you

baghdad bob? Obama supporters know that this is essentially over. She doesn't have much of a chance anymore and MI and FL are irrelevant unless she pulls out unlikely big wins on March 4. Not gonna happen.

[golddigger]

93. I quess will just have to wait and see cali. It's not over till the fat lady sings.

So when you start singing, I'll know it's over.

[anigbrowl]

86. Not. Even if they are seated they will probably not alter the outcome.

Clinton's net gain from FL and MI is only 57 delegates. That probably won't be enough to catch up to his lead.

[tekisui]

Those controversial delegates, plus Edward's 26, only net her

about 126 over Obama. Not counting the 55 Uncommitted delegates from MI. I expect Obama to be well out of reach. Besides, she has to win to make those delegates count, and it doesn't look like that will happen.

This was just fantasy talk, trying to give her shrinking supporters hope.

[liberalnurse]

34. Committed super delegates are going to

swing to Hillary faster than we can slam the door on *bush/cheney's asses.

Edwards is the Queen-maker. Mark my prediction. He will announce in Ohio.

[cali]

52. yikes. fantasy city for you, nurse.

Her SD endorsements have dried up in the last few days. Obama's have been coming in. There's been a marked swing AWAY from Queen Hilly. And Edwards would have endorsed her by now if he was going to- not that his endorsement is very potent at this time. It's too later. Mark my predictions, nurse, he won't endorse either of them.

[yellowcanine]

62. I agree I don't think Edwards will endorse either one because he won't control his delegates anyway.

So there is no reason for him to endorse. He will take the safe way out and release his delegates to vote their conscience. In that case I believe most will vote Obama - even if he would endorse Clinton I believe many of his delegates would vote Obama - he does not actually have any strict hold on them under the DNC rules.

[Kahuna]

81. If you're gonna dream you might as well dream BIG!! nt

:rofl:

[RoadRage]

15. The only thing Hillary will win is the title of "DESTROYER"..

She won't win the general election if she gets there this way. She may not know that though - her campaign staff has kept her quite delusional through most of this.. "Don't worry Hillary, this nomination is yours.. it's in the bag..."

Cut to today.. "Umm.. ooops".

Look, i'm not trying to be a jerk - and I know you want Hillary to win. But going about it this way is wrong - or at least it appears to be to the over 1/2 of people who have voted for Obama. You need those people to win a General Election.

I agree - the people of FL & MI got screwed because their people pushed for a date that wasn't agreed upon. The solution? Re-do it. Re do the elections in both states.. give both Hillary & Obama a chance to talk to voters and get their messages across.

Anyone who doesn't agree with THAT, IMO just wants to steal an election - because they see that when Obama has time to campaign, he wins - and they don't want to give him that shot. That is more unfair then anything else in this case, and that's the problem - it's what Hillary seems to be pushing for.

[mckeown1128]

18. But, she said they don't count.

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"


http://www.nhpr.org/node/13858

[cali]

42. It's irrelevant at this point. It's not going to happen until

things have sugared off. It's likely she'll lose TX on March 4 and either lose or narrowly win OH and RI. She'll lose VT by 25+ pts Then it's over and she's out. She's deeply in debt and her campaign is the textbook case of a trainwreck. Why do you hate reality?

[Moochy]

43. By ANY MEANS NECESSARY

Watch as the Clinton machine gets even more desperate.

[yourguide]

70. I am not sure how she "earned" them

when she won on name recognition alone considering no one was allowed to campaign there.

[OzarkDem]

87. Absolutely, she won both places

its not her fault the state Dem leaders screwed up. If they hadn't this issue would be resolved and Clinton would be well ahead of Obama.

[tekisui]

2. That road is a dead end.

Hillary just doesn't have good advisers. This isn't going to help her now or in the the coming Primaries.

And, it's all hypothetical, she won't make it to the Convention with mounting debt.

[Windy]

3. Her nuanced comment about the superdelegates in the debate last night

was a deliberate attempt to try and squelch the fact that she has every intention of manuevering a win instead of winning over the american people.

Her comment was rule are rules, and then said that she didn't think it would get that far. She had a national audience and she knew that the debate over superdelegates and Michigan and Florida hurt her.

Now, when "no one is looking" she is making it clear that this is exactly how she intends to win.

There is still another debate Hillary and Tim Russert will not let this go as easily as King did.

[hisownpetard]

67. Last night, when asked the question about MI and Fla, she said something like, "Well, I think

that'll work itself out."

I knew when she said it that she was just trying to breeze past the question and not have to discuss
it during the debate.

I was amazed when the talking heads, post-debate, deduced that she seems to have accepted the fact
that those delegates will not be seated. When someone's as big a policy wonk as Hillary, they don't
give an amorphous answer like, "It'll just work out" and mean it.

And this morning, she proved that.

[nomorewhopper]

5. its just desperate bullshit - and at this point it doesn't even matter anyways

if she tries to pull this, her legacy will be ruined

regardless of all this nonsense she's talking about with florida and michigan, if she doesn't win TX and Ohio huge, it's all over, and doesn't matter what Fla and Mich did.

She could theoretically use these as a tiebreaker, and could make the case to the public "look, at the end of this thing, it's a statistical dead heat, but i won florida, so teh superdelegates should side with me". If she's losing badly, this won't make a difference.

[bowens43]

6. Translation : " We will cheat if that's what it takes!" nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. She will fight within the rules

The DNC is like the Board of Directors of the National Democratic Party. The National Democratic Party Convention is like the annual shareholders meeting. Rules that allow challenges to the earlier DNC decision about FL and MI are legally entered into the books. Clinton says she will pursed that, and she explains why. It is no more cheating to do that than it is cheating for shareholders who want Corportations to improve their environmental policies to press a challenge to the Board of a corporation at a shareholders meeting regarding their choices in that regard.

The situation regarding FL and TX is complex and there are Democrats who are not Clinton partisans who also believe it would be a grave mistake to disenfranchise over 2.25 million Democratic voters. There are arguments on both sides.

[jasmine621]

69. She is a fighter. That's what I like about her.

I have no doubt in my mind that had Hillary voted against the IWR in the first place, she would not now be voting to fund the war...and she may have been standing with Kucinich on that issue.

[rodeodance]

41. I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4526958#4526958
4526958, I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Posted by bigtree on Sun Feb-10-08 05:39 PM

if the SuperDelegates were apportioned as he said he wants them . . .


Obama said superdelegates should follow the wishes of the voters.

"My strong belief is that if we end up with the most states and the most pledged delegates from the most voters in the country, that it would be problematic for the political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voter," he said.

When it was noted that Sen. Ted Kennedy is one of his superdelegate supporters, even though voters handed Massachusetts to Clinton on Super Tuesday, Obama said, "Well, I mean, we can make arguments back and forth on this."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/09/2008-02-09_hillary_clinton_and_barack_obama_battle_.html

[jgraz]

7. 30 point losses in TX and OH should take care of the problem

[K Gardner]

8. The BiPolar Candidate. Hard to keep up with the different faces she presents from minute to

minute. Scary.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Hillary, Hillary, wherefore art thou, Hillary?

Are you the third-rate hack who mouths spoon-fed attack lines like "change you can xerox" or the kind and decent soul who reached out to all of us at the end of the debate last night?

Thirty-five years on the public stage and we're still all confused.

[Little Star]

10. She is right to fight for the voters that got their butts out there

and voted! Good for her. The DNC better not let those two states go to the R's in the general election. If they do not seat those delegates we might as well say hello to President McCain.

[mckeown1128]

17. Except this is a 180 on where she stood when they voted.

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"

http://www.nhpr.org/node/13858

[Moochy]

47. That was Before Silly Season started

Silly!

[cali]

55. Don't worry. It won't come to that.

After she leaves the race, Michigan and Florida will be seated, and the party will unite to face McCainiac in the fall.

[Obamanaut]

56. I cannot speak for Mi, but here in Fl the reason a lot of us

came out for the primary voting was because of the property tax amendment. Now what new need to do in Fl is vote out all the incumbents who got is into this mess. Two years from now we can oust some more, and then the remainder later. That way we can have a whole new batch to screw with us.

[COFoothills]

11. I don't expect much to come of this...

All it will do is turn into a protracted legal battle that will do more harm than good for everyone involved. I don't see it happening.

[dysfunctional press]

12. if hillary gets the nomination thru superdelegates & MI/FL delegates being seated-

john mccain will win the general election.

but it's a moot point anyway, as they won't be seated.

[Romulox]

19. Don't you think there's a danger of losing Mi & Fla if you don't count them?

That also looks like a McCain win.

[mckeown1128]

23. They WILL be seated..

but the DNC is not going to allow them to overturn the results of the other primaries. It would likely be an even split of delegates between Obama and Hillary.

[Romulox]

38. That's the same thing as not seated them at all. I doubt that will help. nt

[COFoothills]

25. Not so much...

Probably lose Florida anyways with McCain.

Michigan is solid and I don't see that flipping either way.

[Romulox]

36. "Michigan is solid..." I think that's dangerous thinking. Things have changed.

Michigan has a solid and vigorous republican contingent on its west coast, and McCain is popular here.

[MonkeyFunk]

53. Kerry took Michigan in 2004 with 51%

Don't take Michigan for granted.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

82. I've always felt that Michigan was the reddest blue state out there.

Hence the big "Oopsie" in the economy due to Republican tax cuts.

I'm very worried about Michigan

[dysfunctional press]

50. no- since the voters knew in advance that the votes wouldn't count.

i think it's a bigger risk in alienating would-be legitimate democratic voters in the other 48 states,
as opposed to those few morans in the other two states who were apparently not aware that their primary votes were essentially meaningless, due to the bone-headed decisions of their chosen reps at the state level.

[Romulox]

65. So if you live in Mi or Fla, you're a moran for wanting your vote to count?

:wtf:

[dysfunctional press]

71. that's not what i said at all, now is it...?

i said that anyone in those two states who didn't know that their votes in the primary wouldn't count were/are morans. but moreso in michigan, where most of the candidates weren't even on the ballot- anyone who thinks that it would be fair to go by the outcome of that type of an election is especially brain-dead.

[pdxmom]

13. I would have a whole lot more respect for her opinion if she had bothered

to say this prior to agreeing not to campaign, or prior to Michigan, but she didn't come out with the "let the votes count" until right before the Florida primary. I don't doubt for a second that she did this as a way to campaign in Florida, without actually going into the state, knowing that this statement right on the eve of the primaries would be all over the airways, effectively giving her free campaign exposure. It was too disingenuous by half, and keeping at it just reinforces my opinion that she will do or say anything to win.

[jgraz]

29. That would have been a smart move

She should have known that her name recognition would carry both of those primaries. She should have agreed not to campaign and pushed to count the votes from the beginning.

Of course, "smart moves" is not going to be one of her campaign's overarching themes once all is said and done.

[LakeSamish706]

14. I sure hope that the American people at large are privy to this. n/t

[CPschem]

20. Disgusting.

Can't earn 'em, so let's steal 'em. There are things called rules, Senator Clinton.

[enough already]

21. Sounds a lot like her IWR vote

"It may have said I was voting to authorize war, but that's not what I was voting for."

"The agreement may have said those delegates would not be seated, but that's not what I was agreeing to."

More lies of convenience. It never ends with those people. Fortunately, they will soon be gone.

[K Gardner]

24. Here's the real irony: Even if they sat the MI and FL delegates, aportioned to

exactly the way they voted, she still wouldn't overtake Barack's delegate count. And in the process, she'll further tear down her "reputation" and the party. She needs to stop this, now.

[COFoothills]

35. EXACTLY!

Which is why it won't happen.

[Egnever]

26. LOL so much for last nights bullshit

[Bread and Circus]

46. She is kind of two-faced isn't she?

[Egnever]

72. Just a little

[jpak]

27. She deserves them - she was robbed by the archaic undemocratic disenfranchising caucus system

:eyes:

[jgraz]

31. And the way they let the "little people" vote. Disgusting!!

And their votes count exactly as much as important people! How can that be fair??

[Romulox]

39. As long as those "little people" aren't in Mi or Fla, you surely mean? nt

[BigDaddy44]

28. Wow

So much for the good feelings that closed out last nights debate. That didn't take long........

[sandyj999]

33. Oh Leave My Vote Alone

I like it just laying there being worthless!

[rodeodance]

37. 'The press seems to have missed the distinction"---yes they did.

Clinton: Let’s talk about the agreement. The only agreement I entered into was not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. It had nothing to do with not seating the delegates. I think that’s an important distinction. I did not campaign–

Smith: The press seems to have missed the distinction if that’s the case. The talk is that you agreed not to seat the delegation.

Clinton: That’s not the case at all. I signed an agreement not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. Now, the DNC made the determination that they would not seat the delegates, but I was not party to that. I think it’s important for the DNC to ask itself, Is this really in the best interest of our eventual nominee? We do not want to be disenfranchising Michigan and Florida. We have to try to carry both of those states. I’d love to carry Texas, but it’s usually not in the electoral calculation for the Democratic nominee. Florida and Michigan are. Therefore, the people of those two states disregarded adamantly the DNC’s decision that they would not seat the delegates. They came out and voted. If they had been influenced by the DNC, despite the fact that there was very little campaigning, if any, they would have stayed home. But they wanted their voices heard. More than 2 million people came out. I mean, it was record turnout for a primary. Florida, in particular, is sensitive to being disenfranchised because of what happened to them in the last elections. I have said that I would ask my delegates to vote to seat.

[loveangelc]

40. Nope, it's not happening. If she loses either tx or oh its over and the DNC isnt changing its rules.

nancy pelosi said as much...

[rodeodance]

45. I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4526958#4526958
4526958, I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Posted by bigtree on Sun Feb-10-08 05:39 PM

if the SuperDelegates were apportioned as he said he wants them . . .


Obama said superdelegates should follow the wishes of the voters.

"My strong belief is that if we end up with the most states and the most pledged delegates from the most voters in the country, that it would be problematic for the political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voter," he said.

When it was noted that Sen. Ted Kennedy is one of his superdelegate supporters, even though voters handed Massachusetts to Clinton on Super Tuesday, Obama said, "Well, I mean, we can make arguments back and forth on this."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/09/2008-02-09_hill

[Little Star]

98. Seems Obama lives on a one way street! Ha!

[Bread and Circus]

44. You stay classy Hillary Clinton

[stevietheman]

51. If Hillary decides on war, we'll give her WAR. n/t

n/t

[conservdem]

54. Please discourage her from doing this.

[Independent-Voter]

57. Man, I really hope she does this. It'd seal her legacy for good.

[yellowcanine]

59. It is highly likely that even with Florida and Michigan she still loses.

She will not get all of those delegates. In Michigan she got about 55% of the primary vote and in Florida she got about 50% of the vote. With proportional representation she may not end up with many more delegates than Obama depending on how the other 45% in Michigan (mostly uncommitted + Kucinich) and the other 50% in Florida (mostly Obama and Edwards) are allocated. Neither Edwards nor Kucinich will be able to tell their delegates how to vote. They can try, but the rules do not actually bind pledged delegates to vote the way the candidate they are pledged to tells them to. So it is quite likely that most of those delegates would jump on the Obama bandwagon, particularly if he holds his own in the remaining big three (and for sure if he wins two out of three). My feeling is that the delegates will likely eventually be seated under some deal in which Michigan and Florida will have to agree to obey the rules in the future and a gentlemen's (smoke filled room) agreement that SDs in Florida and Michigan will give enough votes to Obama to give him near parity with Clinton in total delegates (pledged + SDs). It is after all the Super Delegates in Florida and Michigan who are going to be negotiating with the DNC. They will put a finger into the wind, see that it is blowing Obama's way, and fall into line. This deal will likely be made after March 4 if Obama wins both Ohio and Texas - if not, then after the PA primary. If Hillary somehow wins big enough in all three to tie or go ahead of Obama, then a deal would be likely be struck favoring her enough to win the nomination and probably offering the VP spot to Obama. I don't see that happening, though. Obama is likely going to win Texas outright and probably win or come very close in Ohio.

[madfloridian]

60. Didn't she say last night that rules are rules?

Flip flop

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1845

[stahbrett]

61. In Florida and Michigan, the Dems had a lower turnout than the Repubs... and we know why

Because the Democratic primaries didn't count in those states! Isn't it amazing that in almost every other state, especially the ones that are considered purple, the turnout for the Democrats is sometimes 2-3 times higher than the Republican turnout? Yet Michigan and Florida somehow have higher Republican turnout. Yet these elections should be considered perfectly valid. Yeah right... I have a broken Xerox machine to sell you if you believe that. ;)

[Quixote1818]

63. Thanks for pointing that out. nt

[madfloridian]

68. Recommending. If she does this it will damage the party. She lied last night, didn't she?

Didn't she say rules are rules during the debate? Did I hear things?

Last September her campaign agreed with the rules.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1845

I agree with Simon:

Here is what Simon Rosenberg, a fellow founder of the DLC in the late 80s had to say about this situation.

"But there is a line in politics where tough and determined becomes craven and narcissistic, where advocacy becomes spin, and where integrity and principle is lost. I am concerned that this Florida gambit by the Clinton campaign is once again putting two of my political heroes too close - or perhaps over - that line. So that even if they win this incredible battle with Barack Obama they will end up doing so in a way that will make it hard for them to bring the Party back together, and to lead the nation to a new and better day."

[mculator]

76. maybe you should read the rules yourself

It's all up to discretion of the DNC. if moving primaries up was an automatic delegate strip, both IO and NH would have to lose them as well.

[madfloridian]

77. Maybe you should read my journal on this topic.

If she tries for FL delegates to count, she will split the party in two.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[Vinca]

73. If the situation was reversed, Clinton would have already been to court

to stop the counting of the delegates.

[NoodleyAppendage]

74. Clinton is a FRAUD. I guess agreements mean nothing if you are a LOSER. n/t

J

[mculator]

75. ^^^wah

don't get mad just because obama couldn't win if these 'landslides' were 30 points!... that's darwin, strength survives. get real, hillary hater. fact is, obama gets automatic african american support, so hillary is clearly to chooser's candidate. don't be retarded. your candidate is the fraud. he's descended from kenyans and has no connection to the slavery or repression that bonds the african american constituency. he grew up in hawaii, for christs sake, and his whole damn career is axelrod's architecture. he's got a rove, you say? fraud fraud fraud.

[formernaderite]

78. this is a catch 22 situ for us

If we seat the delegates...you may well be handing Hillary an eeked out victory, and make it easier for states in the future to disregard the rules. On the other hand if we straight out punish Mich and Florida, there is a strong possibility that they could in turn punish the democratic nominee in November. Perhaps a compromised solution, similar to what the repubs is the answer.

[Barack_America]

79. Seat them, fine...

But in a ratio that represents the national popular vote and not the results of their "elections". Elections in this country usually involve campaigning and all candidates present on the ballot, after all.

[workinclasszero]

80. Hillary's scorched earth policy is back

And grace goes out the window. Why did I think Hillary had come to her senses and was going to do the right thing for the greater good?? What a f'in joke...the tiger can't change her stripes and Hillary will burn down the democratic party if she can't get her way. Thats right folks, its all about Hillary. Party and public be damned!

So much for Hillary taking the high road! Typical Clinton-speak, parsing her agreement with the DNC.

I call BULLSHIT on you, Hillary. This woman is a threat to the democratic party and will hand the election over to McCain on a sliver platter just so she can run again in 4 years!

Its a grand betrayal Hillary and you will live in infamy if you go ahead with this BS!

[x-g.o.p.er]

83. Hasn't there already been a legal challenge that was tossed

out of court over this at the state level?

Bad move from a PR standpoint, but if it ultimately gets her the nomination, it will be bold.

Well, it's bold either way. And ballsy.

[Diane R]

84. So her conciliatory remarks were all a fraud, I guess.

[GarbagemanLB]

88. No, they were genuine when they were originally spoken by Bill in 1992.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

85. All I can say is that Obama had better start fighting for them too if he wants Fla in the General.

You DON'T want to piss off people in Florida. The Republicans still punished Florida and Michigan but are letting at least some of the votes count. We do NOT need another 2000 down here.

We have two groups of people down here who vote and vote VERY enthusiastically: Seniors and Cubans. The Cubans were partially responsible for shutting down the recount in Florida in 2000 and you don't want them turned against the Dem Party. They are very politically active in this state and carry a lot of clout. So are Seniors.

[GarbagemanLB]

89. Fine. Seat the delegates, but do it 50-50.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

90. They need to do something that's all I'm saying. The Dem Party will be making a huge error not to.

almost suicidal on their part....

[Alexander]

91. At this point it doesn't matter. She won't win even with those delegates.

[1awake]

92. If she does this

then the party will be fractured. It doesn't matter if you believe she's right or wrong in the end, it will happen. Many people will look at it as not only cheating for personal gain, but will rival the 2000 election in scale. Same goes for super delegates.. hell, they.. the right are already salivating at.. How'd they put it.. a stolen ticket. I can hear it now.. "How can the world take her seriously when she didn't even win her own primary ethically".

Some of you guys think I'm trying to bash Hillary, but I'm not. I'd be happy with a Hillary nominee, if she does it the right way. She is a strong candidate who could represent our ideals very well.. but not this way. It's time for Hillary, Obama, and Dean to have a meeting and come to some sort of universal agreement before it takes our party down with it.


LK

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

94. Fine with me.

As soon as Clinton concedes we can go ahead and mend any last issues with Michigan and Florida by seating their delegates in Denver in a ceremonial capacity to vote for Obama.

[Stuckinthebush]

95. I say split them right down the middle and seat them

That's fair. Michigan and Florida get a place at the table.

Since the DNC disqualified those states then it made sense for candidates NOT to campaign there. We don't know what the real vote would have been had there been a real campaign.

Either split them down the middle and seat, don't seat, or revote.

Those are the only fair options.

[RiverStone]

96. If she loses TX, I can't fathom her pushing it all the way to the convention...

That would be scary.

It would also really fuck with all the good will many people still hold (for reasons I respect) - that Hillary has earned.

I hope common sense prevails.

[mudesi]

99. Give it up, Clinton!

It's really embarrassing.