Would Hillary Tank Obama's Chances in the General Election?

[Barack_America]

Perhaps to allow her to run against McCain in 4 years?

This is a serious question that I pose after having read the following article:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4330128&page=1

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores Her Own Radical Ties

The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group mentioned in the Obama stories.

"Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.

In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.

Opting to leave any attacks on the issue to the GOP may be wise, as attacks from Clinton could backfire. In his final day in office, President Clinton pardoned another one-time member of the Weather Underground, Susan L. Rosenberg, after she had served 16 years in prison on federal charges.

Why would one Democrat use such tactics against another?

Apparently the new campaign strategy is to look conciliatory on camera, but to stab Obama in the back behind the scenes.

This attack from the Clinton campaign is GOP-worthy. I'm not sure if Wolfson is just channeling Karl Rove or if he is actually being advised by him. Regardless, Hillary had better reign him in quick, lest her campaign destroy the Democratic party's chances in 2008.

Unless, of course, that IS their plan

This is a despicable, disgusting tactic beneath the campaign of a Democratic candidate.


Feel free to flame me, but I insist that you defend this tactic of the Clinton campaign in the process.

[Beausoir]

1. No. n/t

[Johnny__Motown]

2. A vote for Hillary is a vote for a divided Democratic party, she needs to lose both TX & OH

[End Of The Road]

18. Vote for the candidate of your choice

and let the party take care of itself.

[End Of The Road]

3. Nope. She is a candidate of integrity. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. LOL

[Barack_America]

13. Please tell me how this tactic demonstrates "integrity". n/t

[sloppyjoe25s]

16. I think the polite on camera

And stab behind the back - with her campaign officials and surrogates.

Speaks to a decided lack of Integrity for Mrs. Clinton.

Seems like "naked ambition for power" is probably more accurate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. are you familiar with delegatehub?

[dailykoff]

6. Either that or she's plain old working for the CIA.

I can't figure it any other way either. :shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Oh For God's Sake Will You People Friggin Think Before You Post?

Jesus christ what a stupid theory.

[Barack_America]

9. Then please explain to me why her campaign would use this tactic...n/t

[Alexander]

27. They can't. The Shillbots are all fake outrage and no substance now.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

37. Everytime You Use Something Like Shillbots You Look Like An Immature Idiot.

Is that all you've got?

[surfermaw]

44. Right on and you also make your Candidate look bad..think you may need help in getting him elected

[tabasco]

56. You said:

Wait... Which Ones Of The Shit Flingers Are Respected Members? (re: all Obama supporters)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4700165#4700500

They are Hillary hating assholes, not Obama supporters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4718161#4718289

If ya need a 'DU' derivative type name though, just call them DUlts lol.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4716792#4717670

And oh, on edit, the concept of your OP is retarded.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4709795#4712467

No She Didn't. Anyone Saying So Is An Intellectual Moron.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4708358#4708404

Anyone saying she sent them there is an irrational moronic ignoramus.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4708358#4708487

BUT THANKS FOR CHIMING IN TO CONDEMN THE NAME-CALLING, &&^%$%^^%$#.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. Shillbots Is A Completely Immature And Brainless Statement That Should Be Condemned.

It makes the poster look like an idiot.

Calling someone an ignoramus, who is acting like an ignoramus, is simply being honest. Calling a concept irrational or moronic, that is in fact irrational or moronic, is simply being honest. Calling a hillary hating asshole, a hillary hating asshole, is simply being honest.

You pasting my suggestion of DUlts to a lighthearted joke thread, as if it was actually name calling, is not honest. Saying that I was talking about all obama supporters by referencing shit flingers, is not honest.

Shillbots is stupid and childish. Everyone knows it. Nice try pal.

[Barack_America]

60. Wow. Thanks for doing the work on that.

:hi:

[maddiejoan]

43. Why don't you go the extra mile

and call us Shrillbots.

Ya know ya wanna.

[Barack_America]

47. Namecalling aside, why would Hillary's campaign use this tactic...

against a fellow Democrat?

That is the topic of this thread.

[maddiejoan]

57. Like much 'reporting" like this

I'd have to see what the reporter said that prompted this musing of Mr. Singer's.

Otherwise, I don't think there is any way to judge the truth of this 'story'

[Barack_America]

68. That's a good point and I'll look into it... n/t

[rodeodance]

80. yes, innuendo's tend to leave a bad taste in the mouth--

[rodeodance]

79. name calling shuts down discussion as does throwing out flambait of fake outrage. But I suspect

you enjoy doing that and had no intention of engaging in a civil discussion. just saying.

[jackson_dem]

83. The same reason Gore used Willie Horton on Dukakis and Dukakis plagiarism on Biden

They are trying to win. 2004 was a tame cycle because it effectively ended after Iowa and 2000, 1996 were not competitive.

[mudesi]

28. Did you even read the link?

Come on.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Yes, I Did. The Theory Is Beyond Stupid. Some Of You Need To Remember How To 'Think' Again.

For real. My god.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. FWIW, My Best Guess Is "Yes"

They seem to have no problem undermining other Democrats in their quest to "suck all of the air from the room" - which is one reason why we lost control of Congress as soon as the Clintons controlled the DNC, and got control back as soon as the Clintons lost their grip.

The lack of support for Kerry, Carville's insane attacks on Dean, etc.

And let's face it - people who use race baiting as a tool are pretty much capable of anything that's non-violent.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. Think. Try It. Just Think.

:think:

[Barack_America]

50. I am thinking.

Hillary has a chance to run again when she is 64, but in 8 years it will be too late.

But even if you don't believe that, will you please tell me why her campaign would use such a tactic against a fellow Democrat?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. Think. I Mean Realllllly Think. Please. Try It. It Really Shouldn't Take Much To Figure It Out.

[Barack_America]

53. I asked you a direct question.

You are unwilling to answer it?

Why would Hillary's campaign use such tactics against a fellow Democrat?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. Think. I Mean Realllllly Think. Please. Try It. It Really Shouldn't Take Much To Figure It Out.

[Barack_America]

55. You are unwilling to answer the question.

I'll take it that you are at a loss on how to defend your candidate's actions.

Moving on then...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

62. Think. I Mean Realllllly Think. Please. Try It. It Really Shouldn't Take Much To Figure It Out.

Please. Instead of knee jerk replying and expecting others to spoon feed you, walk away from the keyboard for a second. Find a quite corner. Sit. Think. Think a bit more. Maybe you'll figure it out. Just think.

[COFoothills]

10. I don't think so.

The Clintons are nothing if not loyal leaders of the democratic party. They will not only 'not' sabotage Obama, I honestly think they will do whatever they can to help him get elected.

When this is all over and when push comes to shove, they'll be on the right side of things either way.

[blm]

11. Well, what has TeamClinton done in the past to Dem nominees to protect HER run in 2008?

Some from Gore's camp talked about the undermining his campaign went through at the hands of TeamClinton in 2000:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/clinton200711


Historian Douglas Brinkley observed this in April2004:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Bill had a 3 week book tour in summer 2004 touting his high profile defense of Bush for his Iraq war decisions in almost every interview:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville sabotaged Ohio Dem voters on election night...ever wonder why?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


And here's Hillary herself, finding a camera to side with Bush over Kerry in 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

Would TeamClinton do this again to protect 2012? I don't see them getting away with it....again. Too many Dems know they aren't to be trusted to do what's best for the party or its nominee.

[democrattotheend]

25. Here's another link

Possibility that Carville tipped off Bush (indirectly) on Kerry's plans to contest Ohio:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2006/10/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_k/

[XemaSab]

64. dupe

[XemaSab]

65. You should go post this as an OP

and include the Vanity Fair article about how they threw Gore under the bus in 2000:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/clinton200711

(It's a long article, and this paragraph sums a lot of it up:

As a sitting president, Bill was in a unique position to boost his vice president's candidacy by scheduling White House events to highlight his achievements. But in 1999 those resources were diverted from Gore to Hillary "in a big way," said one member of the Gore team. "The Clintons come first. That was their basic framework." From June through December, Bill and Hillary appeared at 20 events under the aegis of the White House, including a celebration of Hillary's 52nd birthday, where in typical style Bill larded his tribute with statistics on welfare, poverty, crime, and economic growth as he touted his wife as a "genuine visionary" needed by the Senate—the ultimate confluence of the personal and political. During the same period, Gore was featured only at a White House Conference on Mental Health—with Bill, Hillary, and Tipper.

In addition, the Clintons pulled their fundraising machine out for HILLARY's campaign but not Gore's.)

[Barack_America]

67. Wow. That's quite a collection.

And I agree that it could be its own OP.

[Whisp]

12. lousy snakes, I wouldn't be surprised.

good grief what the fuck is wrong with them?
fucking two faced weasels.

'I am honoured, I am sooooooo honoured to be running with Barack, so honoured"

[adoraz]

14. is this asking if Hillary's campaign...

Will go against Obama's after Hillary's loses? that seems ridiculous, especially considering they wouldn't have any money to do this kind of stuff anyways.

[BeatleBoot]

15. Like one person here said, Obama's intent is to win the Primary

Which is why this is a litle more disgusting...

[Barack_America]

19. The Clinton tactic comes from the CORE of her campaign.

What you posted was the work of a lone VOLUNTEER who subsequently apologized and was let go.

They're not on the same level at all.

[bunnies]

23. Pathetic.

Obama denounced this ad immediately. You've already been informed of that.

Stop spamming the board. Its sad.

[BeatleBoot]

33. Link?

[Barack_America]

39. Here.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/14/obama-nevada-flyer-you-can-be-a-democrat-for-one-day/

[BeatleBoot]

46. Thanks.

[Adelante]

17. Apparently so

There is no getting away from it. These tactics used against a fellow Democrat are beyond any measure of human decency. Joe McCarthy, is that you?

[jillan]

20. Let me get this straight? You think that Hillary's plan is to take down Obama so McCain can win, so

she can run again in 4 years???

Oh - you did think that!

What is with you Obama supporters today?

[Barack_America]

22. Why else would her campaign be bragging about giving the GOP ammunition...

...against Obama?

And, FYI, most political strategists believe that Hillary could run again in 4 years (at 64 years of age), but that 8 years would be too late.

[jillan]

26. You really need to get ahold of yourself and put away your tinfoil.

This whole story has been debunked

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4718357

[Barack_America]

35. I can't see that thread. You are saying that ABC news is lying about this?

That they fabricated these direct quotes?

That's a pretty serious charge.

[onenote]

21. No. Nope. Not a chance.

how many more ways does it have to be said.

[democrattotheend]

24. I hate to say it

But I think you could be right. If she can't win the nomination now, it's in her interest for Obama to lose in November. For a brief moment last night, I thought she wouldn't play that way, but I think her goal was to make us think she wouldn't.

I think Kerry's endorsement of Obama is somewhat telling here. I know Bill Clinton campaigned for Kerry in 2004, but if the Clintons had really done everything they could to help him win, wouldn't he have endorsed her?

Check this out: http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2006/10/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_k/

Not that it proves anything, but it's a bit disturbing.

[Barack_America]

32. That is disturbing.

Yet, unfortunately, not surprising. Seems like they had 2008 in their sights for quite some time.

[Thrill]

29. She'll do anything and this is BS you see from the Repukes

Unreal

[cali]

30. No.

In fact, I'm sure of it. If she loses TX or OH, she'll drop out gracefully and endorse him. And yes, that attack is deplorable. She's desperate.

[Barack_America]

The strategies are not mutually exclusive.

It can be as her campaign is now operating; public appearances versus behind-the-scenes actions.

That her campaign would publicly declare such a tactic gives me serious pause as to the depths of what they're willing to do.

Did you see this that was posted above?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2006/10/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_k/

[Cha]

31. Don't trust hilary on anything..and if she tries

some shit like that and Obama wins anyway..then Adios hilary...good bye.

[Beausoir]

34. It's Friday. There is a serious case of the sillies going around.

[Little Star]

38. Your post makes me want to vote for McCain!!

I will not ever, but it's posts like this that sure make it sound tempting!

[Barack_America]

40. Yeah, the Clinton campaign's tactics are that despicable.

I agree there's not really much difference between them and McCain.

[Little Star]

61. Back atcha! Obamababies are sooo nice. Not!

[Barack_America]

63. Nice namecalling.

Care to defend their use of these tactics?

[surfermaw]

41. Hillary would be the best thing for Obama

He has told you over and over, that they were friends before the campaign and would be friends after the campaign, I think he said in one debate that Hillary I would want you as and advisor. She is old enough to be his mother and wise beyond her years, she would probably be the mother he lost and help him any way she could. I think Bill Clinton would be good for Obama, heck I hope I see all of them including Biden, Dennis , Richardson, Dodd, and any that I have forgotten, heck I especially like Biden, not for a V.P but used somewhere I think he gives you confidence when he speaks, he sometimes get to talking so fast that he stickes his foot in his mouth, but we all have faults don't we.

[surfermaw]

42. Oh my don't let me leave out my candidate until the dogs come home EDWARDS

[jillan]

49. Biden!

That was a big loss!

[cbayer]

48. Hillary bake. Please pass the potatoe salad. nt.

[Flabbergasted]

52. I call for her drop out soon after March 4th if she loses one of the two biggies....

A reversal from my previous position...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4718731&mesg_id=4718731

[jmg257]

58. I would not be surprised. 2012 could be her last chance, and obvious they thought 2008 was a gimee.

[dailykoff]

66. Another possibility is that she's staying in "just in case"

something happens next time the Secret Service orders Dallas police to stop screening for weapons at an Obama event, like they did yesterday:

DALLAS, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The Secret Service told Dallas police to stop screening for weapons while people were still arriving at a campaign rally for Barack Obama, a report said.

Police stopped checking people for weapons at the front gates of Reunion Arena more than an hour before the Democratic presidential hopeful appeared on stage Wednesday, the Fort Worth (Texas) Star-Telegram reported.

Police said the order to stop using metal detectors and checking purses and laptop bags constituted a security lapse, the newspaper reported.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/02/21/report_security_relaxed_at_obama_speech/8649

It worked for Feinstein.

[Yael]

69. Yes, she would. delegatehub tells the story from start to finish.

Not sure what Ignored is all up in here ranting about, but I am guessing it is either Rezko-related or everyone (but him) is a mindless idiot. No explanation, just one insult after another.

Am I close?

[Barack_America]

70. More like reposting the same post 4 times instead of answering a direct question.

The interesting thing is, not one Hillary supporter even attempted to defend her tactics.

That says something, no? :rofl:

[Yael]

71. Boatloads

I only have 2 on my iggly list anymore. Both because they are 100% insult slinging and haven't had a post with any actual SUBSTANCE to it for eons.

[BringBigDogBack]

72. What a piece of shit

[Barack_America]

73. Thanks!

Care to defend the Clinton's use of these tactics against Obama?

:hi:

[OzarkDem]

74. Obama would lose the GE all by himself

and its not a good sign when his supporters start making excuses for him now.

[Barack_America]

76. Where did I make an excuse for him? Would you care to defend the tactics of the Clinton campaign?

Do you think that accusing another Democrat of associations with "radical groups" is appropriate strategy?

[OzarkDem]

78. Better Clinton brings them up than McCain

[Barack_America]

81. Really? So then you would also see another Democrat mention Hillary's supposed lesbian...

...lover than McCain?

You think that it's okay for the campaigns of Democrats to sling mud at other campaigns behind-the-scenes after the candidate themselves declared how "proud" they were of the recipient?

Interesting.

[rodeodance]

75. She is a Democrat with integrity and your OP is paranoia setting in.

[blm]

82. Really? Where was it during the last presidential campaign or Gore's? Is everyone just lying

from Gore's camp in that Vanity Fair article last year and about backstabbing of Kerry campaign from wellknown journalists like Brinkley and Woodward?

[Barack_America]

77. #75, I cannot see you.

That is why I'm not responding.