The biggest regret

[JoFerret]

When we have President Obama in 2009 the biggest regret will be that we missed out on Hillary Clinton's competence, character and command.

The compensation will be that - as leader in the senate - she will be the person he has to rely on to get the job done.

Too bad it will not be the other way around. But such is the way of the world.
If he had been in the senate for a second term he would have the record of imperfections that people hold her accountable for.

And - folks - he is imperfect. And I don't just mean the ears. In ten years the threads will all be full of disappointment in Obama and the hope for some mew thing. Let's hope sexism does not play such a big role in that new hopeful era.

[tabatha]

1. Hillary brought her own regret by the incompetence of her campiagn.

[JoFerret]

31. He has better marketing. This is true.

.

[Skip Intro]

56. Like a drug commerical. Glowing butterfly and all.

[tekisui]

70. He has better marketing, and is a better manager of a huge national campign.

He has a better handle on finances, and better foresight. He looked to each state and looked past SuperTues.

Hillary ran a campaign into the ground. The way I see, if she were to run her GE this way, we'd lose. If she were to run her WH this way, disaster.

[jgraz]

2. My biggest regret is that now we have to read these kinds of bullshit posts

:banghead:

[HughMoran]

10. Hmmm

That wasn't nice - the O/P was sounding rather conciliatory - I'm disappointed at your insensitivity.

[jgraz]

13. Did you forget your sarcasm tag?

"In ten years the threads will all be full of disappointment in Obama and the hope for some new thing. Let's hope sexism does not play such a big role in that new hopeful era."

That doesn't sound conciliatory to me. It sounds like a sore loser tearing down our candidate. Am I somehow reading it wrong?

[JoFerret]

36. No. It's called realism

I am not a big Obama fan although I see his many strengths and I will support the democratic nominee 100%.

I also know that no-one can live up to the audacious hype surrounding Obama right now. (To me it is settling for second best because he has the marketing and the moment.)

But whoever is the nominee - they will disappoint. Obama already disappoints me because he is so middle of the road, unprogressive. and unwilling to make the hard choices. The disappointment of others will follow suit. IT ALWAYS DOES for those who raise their hopes to higher than mortal levels.

[Colobo]

42. Obama will be a great president. He has the potential.

[JoFerret]

58. Potential. Yes

But so does Clinton.

The hype surrounding him actually makes it harder to him to realize that potential should he be elected.

[KAZ]

15. Oh grow up. It's another Obamabash thread.

[HughMoran]

17. It is?

It's as likely to be true as not - this is politics you know, disappointment in your person is part and parcel of the game.

[Barack_America]

22. Let's see...we have a thread presuming that Obama will fail...

Obama bash? Yeah, I think this meets the qualifications.

[thoughtcrime1984]

32. You run the risk of being called a droning bore

if you disagree with the OP. Oh, the horror! I don't start Hilbash threads, and occasionally jump into Obama bash threads to defend our candidate. Quite a waste of time, I think I'll find something better to do...I'm sure March 5th will be really fun around here. :sarcasm:

[JoFerret]

38. Whatever it becomes. It did not start that way

Stop being so sensitive. Your guy is in the lead. He is not perfect. Hillary has many strengths that we not see in the WH if and when Obama wins. (The best politician of her generation in terms of command and competence. That is a tremendous loss for the country. Personally - I feel cheated.)

Obama has other strengths that we will see.

No need to get all huffy.

[KAZ]

41. I'm sorry. And I didn't mean to appear sensitive (though I am) ..

.. It gets rough in here. And I agree with your post.

[Exilednight]

72. The best politician of her generat? That's a bold statement. I can think of five off the top ...

of my head that are better politicians than Hillary. Any success than any Clinton claims deserves to go to James Carville.

[TheDebbieDee]

24. No, Jgraz, you don't have to read these posts.......

[jgraz]

27. If only people would label them properly, I wouldn't

Calling it "my biggest regret" says nothing about the content of the post. Now, if this thread was labelled "more bullshit whining from a bitter Hillbot", I could easily avoid it.

[JoFerret]

33. Poor you

(I miss Edwards).

[jgraz]

34. Poor us

(me too)

[emilyg]

45. No one is making you read this.

[jgraz]

47. Actually, the OP is

If she wanted to keep detractors out of the thread, she could have used a more descriptive title.

[JoFerret]

60. Oh that wicked, wicked OP.

80% BO. That would describe me too I think. maybe closer to 75% except when it comes to the GOP alternatives - then it kicks up to the max.
I wasn't such a strong HC supporter until the Obama hype kicked into high gear and the Hillary hate started up.

When the history of this campaign is written, and the autopsies for hers are completed, that Hillary hate (the sexism and misogyny) will be a component. I do know that there are many other reasons and elements but fear of the female and demonizing a strong woman will also have played a part. That and a certain self righteousness that comes with people who have never had to assume responsibility and power and never had to make the compromises that entails.

Obama folk - beware purists. Watching a president Obama make those compromises will be hard for such people once the sheen has worn off. And as a man prone to "reaching out" and etc. - when the test comes he will also be prone to "proving" how tough he is.

[jgraz]

78. You're missing two very important points

When the history of this campaign is written, and the autopsies for hers are completed, that Hillary hate (the sexism and misogyny) will be a component. I do know that there are many other reasons and elements but fear of the female and demonizing a strong woman will also have played a part. That and a certain self righteousness that comes with people who have never had to assume responsibility and power and never had to make the compromises that entails.

The only thing that will be remembered from Hillary's campaign is how she blew a 30 point lead through gross mismanagement. SHE HAD A 30 POINT LEAD. She led among every demographic group. How does that translate to Hillary hate among the Democrats?

Doesn't it make more sense that she had broad support and was pretty well-liked until people saw how she campaigned? Her numbers went DOWN in WI in every county she campaigned in. That doesn't indicate irrational, long-held hatred. That shows that people just don't like what they see in her campaign.

Obama folk - beware purists. Watching a president Obama make those compromises will be hard for such people once the sheen has worn off. And as a man prone to "reaching out" and etc. - when the test comes he will also be prone to "proving" how tough he is.

OK, I was going to make another point here until I read your ignorant, sexist, bigoted line at the end. Can you for a second imagine how you would react if someone posted a similarly stereotyped statement about Hillary ("As a woman, when the test comes she'll probably be prone to crying about it.") :eyes:

It's also just plain wrong. Which candidate has voted for war again and again to bolster her "tough-guy" bona fides? Which candidate has spoken against diplomacy at every opportunity? If there's anyone we have to worry about needing to prove how "tough" she is, it's Hillary. And THAT has everything to do with her own insecurity about her gender.

Now on to the point I was going to make.

You used the phrase "watching a president Obama", and it really stirred something up for me. We "watched" Bill Clinton make those compromises, and we did nothing about it. We "watched" the Congress cave in to Bush over and over and we did nothing about it.

We can no longer just "watch" our politicians and expect anything to change. That's the real difference between the Clintons and the Obama campaign. Her message is one of top-down, VIP leadership, and it shows in her campaign structure. Obama's message is one of bottom-up participation, with everyone staying involved in governing.

Whether he means it or not, his campaign is one that gets people involved and focuses on how "we" want to run this country. And "we" don't tend to compromise on our core beliefs.

[thoughtcrime1984]

3. Many people disagree with your assessment

I doubt your are clairvoyant, and I will take my chances with Barack Obama. There are other Senators that he can count as well- Kennedy, Biden, Kerry, Feingold, Boxer, etc., etc. I don't foresee quite as much regret as you do, I guess.

[HughMoran]

11. Meaningless cheerleader drivel

What a bore.

[thoughtcrime1984]

18. Got something to say? F'ing say it!

You are as boring as they come.

[HughMoran]

19. Yes, I have just one more thing to say

Goodbye. I have no use for cheerleader drones with cheerleader user ID's.

:hi:

[thoughtcrime1984]

21. I don't know why I haven't put you on ignore yet

But I have now.

[JoFerret]

71. Quick question on your name

The "our" part of it. Who does that include? Who exactly is the "our". And is there a "them"?

[goldcanyonaz]

4. Hillary Clinton, if not President, then Supreme Court Justice.

[JoFerret]

39. She is needed in the senate

...to get things done. Without support like hers any president is up a creek.

[avrdream]

5. Hillary will run again in 4 years, trying to beat the incumbent, John McCain.

Just my opinion.

[cali]

8. not a very informed one, alas.

John McCain is a worse candidate than Bob Dole. He's fatally flawed, and in case you haven't been paying attention, he's in a world of hurt. The NYT story is growing some big legs.

[JoFerret]

61. He has a long time to recover

Right now it seems very hard to imagine a McCain win. hard to imagine ANY republican winning given the war, the economy and the legacy of BushCo.

But - Dukakis was a shoe-in throughout the summer of 1988.

Obama and Clinton are much stronger candidates than Dukakis. I think either of them will be able to pull off a victory in Novemeber. Both of them can win.

But a week is a long time in politics. And there are months ahead. Who knows what will happen.
The coronation of Prince Barak is not yet here.

[cali]

67. trying to cloak your antipathy in reasonable clothing is hard for you

as the "Prince Barak" snark so clearly demonstrates. And it's spelled Barack. At no time have i suggested that it's a "coronation" and nor do the majority of Obama supporters. I've said repeatedly that either Hillary or Barack are electable. I have no illusions about either. Both could succeed or fail in the WH. There really is NO way of knowing that now.

[JoFerret]

73. Gosh - a typo. Deep apologies. How ignorant of me.

It's true - I don't like him very much. I seem to be impervious to the charm. But will be so happy to see BushCo dispatched. Obama will be a shining contrast to that.

On the coronation bit - don't you find that there is an element of a royal procession about the support for Obama? A sense of entitlement?

Answering my own question here - you probably do not. But I do. There is an element of unearned entitlement at work. Hence my choice of word "coronation". I also find him a tad patronizing and manipulative. I am sure you and many others see it differently.

[cali]

79. No. And I don't see it in Hillary either really

though that gets tossed out a lot. I think they've both worked like dogs to get where they are. Both have advantages they've used and drawbacks to overcome. I actually like and admire both candidates, but I don't think Hillary has been well served by her campaign. If it weren't for a couple of things- mostly outside her control, I'd be supporting her. Well, one thing was something she had control over: Her IWR vote.

[jgraz]

14. And I'm sure you'll be working hard to make that happen

:eyes:

[Colobo]

44. Seems like it!

[cali]

6. Of course he's imperfect and of course he'll make

decisions people disagree with, but beyond that you have no idea of whether he'll be a good, indifferent or poor president. And the same holds true of Hillary. It's always a gamble.

[KittyWampus]

7. I have zero illusions about Obama. And as a NY'er, I'd be SHOCKED to see Clinton exhibit leadership

in the Senate.

[gateley]

9. Could you please tell me which lotto numbers to pick for tomorrows game?

Thanks! I'll give you a cut. :hi:

[ProSense]

12. Biggest regret: Dems who fear Repubs so much that

they exaggerate the inevitability of pathetic candidates like McCain.

[FrenchieCat]

16. That's what I'm talking about!

Scare 'em up....and push us to select the candidate who has lost 11 in a row! I'm telling them, Good luck with that!

Since Hillary can't beat Barack, why should she beat McCain. So funny and triste, they are!

[dionysus]

20. ka-ching.

[texas_indy]

23. In ten years time the threads will be full of how lucky we and the world were that Obama came along

at the right time and lead America back to the correct path and gave leadership to the world in troubling times.

Sure, there were mistakes made, as all 1st term presidents do, but he quickly made up for it during his 2nd term.


Texas is Obama country!! GOBAMA!

[jgraz]

25. In ten years, we'll be talking about how great President Edwards is doing

and explaining to younger members what a "Republican" is.

[texas_indy]

28. Obama, Obama, Edwards, Edwards.......Sounds pretty good to me! (nt)

[thoughtcrime1984]

46. Works for me, too!

:)

[JoFerret]

66. I wish Edwards were top of the ticket

.

[JohnnyLib2]

35. Historically unlikely; look at Reagan, Clinton and now Bush.

Popularity comes and goes like the tides or something. IMO, putting Obama on such a high pedestal carries its own risks.

[texas_indy]

37. Sorry, history does not provide a guide here since it is uncharted waters....

We've had 3 2-term presidents out of the last 4. - never happened before
Obama will be the 1st minority president of the US. - never happened before
Obama will be the 1st minority leader voted to lead a majority white country - never happened before


Obama is far from perfect and I don't see anyone putting him on a pedestal. But, he beats any of the other choices by a long shot.

Get ready for new history with Obama, and maybe Edwards.


GOBAMA!!

[Yael]

26. Sexism?

*sigh*

[jgraz]

30. Get ready for months and months of the Bitterman Parade

:eyes:

[scheming daemons]

29. In a few months, you'll be working for him....

...and in 4 years, you'll be enthusiastically working toward his re-election.

[usrbs]

59. Not working for him, just voting.

Let his fans do the work now, and I'll work for candidates that I like. In 4 years, if he becomes a decent president (how nice that we're willing to take a chance on that job), I will.

[Cha]

40. Sorry, you're so pathetic..

that's just sad.

[JoFerret]

62. Thanks for the supportive comment

It is so helpful.

[LadyVT]

43. agree, but it will not take 10 years

[cooolandrew]

48. I think if you are talking competance for a woamn VP check here, stunning..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyn35HL0eng

This woman has got to be the next vp she kicks some a**.

[thoughtcrime1984]

49. You should start an OP- Rice to be Obama's VP?

You'll get a lot of views!

[Johnny__Motown]

50. She can't even run a campaign, she has proven she is NOT Competent,

[Blondiegrrl]

51. Sexism, eh? Because everyone who votes for Obama is a sexist?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

At least with Obama in the White House, we won't have to worry about criminal acts and shady backroom deals.

[ErnestoG]

53. Yes, dont you know? And they eat live babies!!

[emilyg]

55. We don't know that.

[JoFerret]

63. Sexism is a component

And if you don't think that then you have not been paying attention to the misogyny rampant in DU and elsewhere.

And please note - I said component.

We have a society where strong women are demonized and subject to a double standard. And the sexism is internalized. Just as racism is.

We are yet to see how race will play out fully in the general election.

[ErnestoG]

52. Hillary's campaign is a reflection of what her administration would be like.

And that alone should scare the mud out of you. So please stop with the "great missed Hillary experience" codswallop.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ErnestoG]

57. Oh what a brilliant response.

Debate team, were you?

[JoFerret]

65. True - the remark was not subtle

...but then your comment was not very deep either.

Personally - I very much hope that a President Obama administration will not be conducted like his campaign in most respects.

[CarbonDate]

64. Really? Because my biggest regret....

...is that we're not all united in working to ensure President Kerry's second term. In fact, we'd have so much spare time that we'd already be laying the groundwork for Vice President Edwards' Presidential bid in 2012.

But hey, to each their own.

[SammyWinstonJack]

68. The biggest regret is that the people let the corprat media and TPTB run off

Kucinich and Edwards and left us with the two sided coin that is Obama and Hillary.

[rasputin1952]

69. I don't know...I see it more of dodging something far more

sinister in the scheme of things.

bushI: 4 years
Clinton: 8 years
bushII: 8 years
ClintonII: 4-8 years

That equates to either 24 to 28 years, nearly a quarter century to over a quarter century, of the country under the Executive direction of 2 families. To me, there is something inherently un-American about that. I'm not the only person that feels that way or sees the implications.

This is not to say that HRC isn't capable of being PotUS, but I was against bushII for many reasons, one of them being the example of a form of "royalty" that could develop. I saw this in a new light when there was talk a couple of years ago about Jeb bush running, and it reinforced in me the ideology that while someone might be capable, there are other reasons to avoid what is essentially a threat to the very democracy we hold so dear.

HRC is an exceptionally intelligent individual, I feel she could be a good president, at the same time, I look at all facets, and one that really bothers me, is the notion of the possibility of our nation under the direction of 2 families for such a long period of time.

Out of some 350 million Americans that can run for president we have now come down to 3 possibilities; the GOP is a farce, so I have two to choose from, (I was initially for Bill Richardson). I have to be honest, I think we, as a nation could have done better in finding a candidate.

[JoFerret]

74. Good observations

...well expressed.

[maddiejoan]

75. Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton

or as I call it"

Failure/Success/Failure/Success.

[RandomKoolzip]

76. In ten years, we'll all have flying cars and Florida will secede from the Union.

Oh, and Schwarzenegger will be president.

Truth is, nobody knows what the fuck will happen in the future with any certainty. THAT part of your post pissed me off even more than the anti-Obama sentiment.

[Eurobabe]

77. They are both imperfect, they are h-u-m-a-n.

Stop making Hillary into some kind of GOD-DESS. Her IWR vote and her sense of entitlement re: becoming President were enough to convince me to support Obama.

:hi:

[rasputin1952]

80. If Obama becomes president, he'll have just about 3 years to

start to get things on track, after that, it is all about re-election, and he had better have a some things we can judge him by, or he spends 4 years as president, and we get another D in the WH. This notion that someone has to spend 8 years on the job is pathetic, either produce or your out, and it doesn't have to be an R that replaces the incumbent. ( I see the GOP about 20-30 years from regaining the WH after what bush has done; really, a trained chimp could/would have done better, and his stink will be on the GOP for many years to come).

My point is, if you don't come up to expectations, if you do not serve this nation and the citizenry, you're out, D, R, I, G, anything else. Either you serve this nation, or you hit the bricks, tossed out in shame. This nation is being drowned ina sea of greed and malfeasance, it has to stop...and that is OUR job as citizens.

[Bucky]

81. "And I don't just mean the ears." !! That line alone has won you my K&R

Of course a certain faction of online Dems will be disappointed with Obama once he's president (knock wood). That's how democracies flow. I believe fifty years from now he'll be getting the same hails we give Truman today---not a great man, but a good man who moved the country forward in a logical way, and always miles above the Republican mediocrities that will oppose him.