AGirl
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:22 PM
Original message |
why Hillary is Right to go after Obama |
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Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 03:23 PM by AGirl
Clinton's advisers have repeatedly criticized the Obama campaign's health care mailing, which says her plan for universal coverage would "force" everyone to purchase insurance even if they can't afford it. Her plan requires everyone to be covered, but it offers tax credits and other subsidies to make insurance more affordable.
During the Debate in Texas
Obama said "In order for you to force people to get health insurance, you've got to have a very harsh penalty, and Senator Clinton has said that we won't go after their wages. Now, this is a substantive difference."
But Clinton said
"Clinton told Stephanopoulos "there are a number of ways" of getting people to enroll in her universal health care plan. "I think you can automatically enroll people, and you will then say you've got to be part of this."
Clinton said, "we will have an enforcement mechanism -- whether it's that (wage garnishing) or it's some other mechanism through the tax system or automatic enrollments."
So Clinton "Might" go after the wages, Obama was misleading the viewers.
Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone."
Obama is also misleading the viewers by saying that Clinton's plan will not be affordable when SHe said she would make it affordable to everyone.
So indeed, SHAME ON YOU , Obama.
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sueragingroz
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message |
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It's about freaking time.
She has been holding back on this for the good of party unity. But what he is doing is beneath contempt and holding back on it is no longer good for the party.
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AGirl
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
2. I am glad she is fighting back, it's about time! |
rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
30. you bet--obama has been hitting her for several weeks--glad the gloves are off. |
ErnestoG
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
40. She came off looking like an enraged bag lady. |
kennetha
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
45. Nothing to respond to when all you do is name-call. |
Just-plain-Kathy
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Sun Feb-24-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
58. Rodeodance, You are one of Hillary's biggest supporters. How can you forgive her... |
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...for voting for the war, and advising our senate to vote for the war?
Hillary's a smart woman, she had to know about PNAC and their plan to go into Iraq and Iran prior to 9-11.
By no means should Hillary become our president.
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amborin
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Sun Feb-24-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #58 |
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was not to launch a war
it was to give teeth to the UN's inspection program
remember, Hans Blick and his crew could not gain access to many sites....until the threat of war was raised
don't blame Hillary for Bush's lies and deceit
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Just-plain-Kathy
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Sun Feb-24-08 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #59 |
61. Yes, you could keep on believing that. |
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At the time many of us didn't realize how connected Bush and Cheney were to defense contractors. But we ALL knew Bush the oil tycoon was going to profit from a war in the Middle East.
The Clintons knew this White House would profit directly from these wars, yet they did very little to investigate. Even now Bill says we should forget about the past and "look forward".
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VolcanoJen
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Sun Feb-24-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #59 |
64. This kind of talk drives me up a tree. |
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So back during the vote, while we were watching Congress live, and were busy railing against the likes of Hillary Clinton and John Kerry voting for the IWR, you were yelling, "You go, girl!!"???
Revisionist history, pure and simple.
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Thepricebreaker
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Sun Feb-24-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
55. Hillary will never unify the party.. EVER |
yourguide
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message |
3. Pehaps you could ask... |
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Clinton about her false, 15 million people will be without health care under barack's plan mailer as well?
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jackson_dem
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Sat Feb-23-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
17. That's accurate, unless you believe the estimates that say the number may be as high as 20 million |
rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
31. perhaps you better read up on plan before spouting off. |
emilyg
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message |
OHdem10
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message |
5. Obama, McCain, Boehner,and House GOP, Senate GOP |
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all agree NO MANDATES on Health Care Insurance.
The GOP use this to block Universal Health Coverage. Is it not interesting Obama appears to agree with them??
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AX10
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message |
6. HRC is asking people to take responsibility. |
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She is saying that change will require actual sacrifice, even though she is not asking much. She asking everyone to pay into the system so that we have healthcare for all. It is not perfect, but it is a start. On the other hand, Obama is not asking that of the people. He is talking about change but not asking anyone to do anything more than work for his campaign, at best.
See, that is the popular thing to do. Speak of change, but don't require that we give something into it.
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rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
32. yes. she has said that several times in her speechs. |
DDQ
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Sun Feb-24-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
62. Great post AX10 I agree |
earthlover
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message |
7. If you have mandates...then you have to have an enforcement mechanism.... |
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does that mean penalties? garnishing wages? jail time? capital punishment? torture? JUST WHAT?!!!!!
You can talk about mandatory health insurance (which is a far cry from universal health care coverage) until you are blue in the face. But, in the final analysis, it is not mandatory unless you take some folks who did not buy health insurance and punish them for their decision...thus adding to their burden.
I think Obama has a point. Most people who don't have health insurance don't choose that because they think that is the best decision. They choose that because they can't afford it.
Perhaps Obama and Hillary could get together and iron out their differences. Maybe mandatory is ok if the prices are indeed low enough to be affordable. About 95% of their plans are identical, anyway!
I don't think mandate insurance is something that is going to be politically feasable. Going against the Repukes, Obama's plan is far easier to defend. And far easier to actually pass into law. Hillary can talk about mandates, but I seriously doubt they would be passed into law.
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jackson_dem
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Sat Feb-23-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
18. What enforcement mechanisms will Obama use for his mandates? |
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He does have a point but the fact is there are many folks eligible for SCHIP and Medicaid who haven't signed up. The other issue is cost. By leaving at least 15 million people out of the system that will raise costs for everyone else by about $1,000. However, I do agree his plan is more politically feasible.
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Control-Z
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
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the people that can least afford health insurance are the ones that Obama will put mandates on - Parents with children. So his voluntary insurance benefits a whole lot of people who could afford it but choose to spend their money on more "fun" things.
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rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
25. Obama has very clearly sai that he would fine parents who do dnot purchase a plan |
Control-Z
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Sun Feb-24-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
52. Yes, he has made it clear. |
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So he's arguing against a mandate but is willing to punish one specific group (the one that would include single teenage mothers). Doesn't that seem a little twisted?
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rodeodance
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Sun Feb-24-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #52 |
rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
36. O. said he would fine parents who do not buy a plan--that is a mandate. He omits |
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about 15-20 million. guess he does not care about them
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cali
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message |
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This is going to blow up in her well made up face, just as it has every other time she's gone negative. I thnk she's subconsciously self-destructive.
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rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
26. thankyou for your concern |
kennetha
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
46. Barack the invincible teflon coated, press coddled phony |
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Will strike her down if she dares challenge him, eh?
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LadyVT
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message |
AGirl
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
10. You're very welcomed. Just spreading the truths. |
Maribelle
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message |
11. Yes indeed, SHAME ON YOU , Obama!!!! |
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The free passes Obama has continually received from MSM, Netroots, Obama supporters, and others is beyond logic.
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Bluerthanblue
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
27. Hillary can't put shame on anyone but herself- and the sooner |
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she gets that the better-
I'm sick to death of her scolding- her anger and outrage.
We have had enough of that kind of crap to last us forever.
She cannot control her anger- and that is what is going to destroy her. No one but herself.
Which is incredibly sad- but none the less true.
peace~
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rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
29. "I'm sick to death of [your] scolding- [your] anger and outrage." Thank you for your consern |
Bluerthanblue
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
33. don't like it- put me on ignore- I don't go on national tv and unleash |
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my pent up rage on Obama for everyone to have to listen to-
Hillary has absolutely NO RIGHT to stand there and act like 'mother superior'- as if she holds the moral center of this world, and I am indeed sick and tired of listening to her- Unfortunately I can't put her on ignore.
no need to thank me for 'my concern' - your sarcasm is not un-noticed, or necessiary.
peace~
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rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
Tatiana
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message |
12. "Shame on you, Obama!" is not going to go over well with the electorate. n/t |
Bluerthanblue
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
35. no it isn't- and it shouldn't. eom |
Mike03
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Sat Feb-23-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message |
13. K and R for this thoughtful, well-reasoned post |
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Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 03:59 PM by Mike03
Obama is also going after Hillary Clinton for "voting for" the bankruptcy bill, and that is a prevarication as well.
Just to be forthright, I prefer Obama, but I am really disgusted with the smears against HRC.
Obama is okay; however, the reason I'm ashamed to be among his supporters is because so many of them SUCK.
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AGirl
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Sat Feb-23-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
14. Thanks, I agree with you about his supporters. |
Johnny__Motown
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Sat Feb-23-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message |
15. She said she would make it affordable. SHE LIES CONSTANTLY. Clue In on that |
rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
34. Obama has used that word lots--thur tax incentives he will make it affordable. They are very |
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similar.
Stop with telling she is lying and making yourself look foolish
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powergirl
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Sat Feb-23-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message |
16. I support Obama - but it's okay to argue about the issues |
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It would be very Republican of me not to agree that all candidates should be able to have their say about the issues. I support Obama on this issue. It looks like the campaign materials were factual, etc. and the fliers are fair. But Sen. Clinton is entitled to criticize the brochure. But it may draw more attention to her support of NAFTA.
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applegrove
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Sat Feb-23-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message |
19. Obama's campaign did the deed. They should have to answer for it. |
frakus6
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Sat Feb-23-08 07:45 PM
Response to Original message |
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To put a chink in St. Obama's armor
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Thrill
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Sat Feb-23-08 07:45 PM
Response to Original message |
21. If Obama was on TV angry and yelling like that. People would |
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be saying he can't handle the political pressure. But its a different for Hillary. Right?
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rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
37. She spoke up for wrong. nothing wrong with that at all. |
ErnestoG
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
42. Yeah she spoke wrong, alright. |
rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
Bluerthanblue
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
38. because he is not "Hillary"- you are right. |
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but the truth in you post isn't.
Double standards are wrong. Your point is important, but missed by most people.
peace~
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zulchzulu
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Sat Feb-23-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message |
22. Hillary's healthcare package has mandates...that's not male go-go dancers... |
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Her mandated healthcare package is DOOMED to die because it fines/penalizes/forces people to get healthcare insurance. This doesn't address the issue of how healthcare insurance has many loopholes and doesn't sincerely address issues of affordability.
She wants the healthcare insurance industry (who gives her lots of money) to act on good faith to make it more affordable... that is a complete joke.
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rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
39. Obama said insur and Pharm companies will be involved. He will fine parents |
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who do not buy plans (the mandate). it omits 15 million--he does not care what happens to them it seems to me.
Hillary's healthcare package has mandates...that's not male go-go dancers... Updated at 3:21 PM Her mandated healthcare package is DOOMED to die because it fines/penalizes/forces people to get healthcare insurance. This doesn't address the issue of how healthcare insurance has many loopholes and doesn't sincerely address issues of affordability.
She wants the healthcare insurance industry (who gives her lots of money) to act on good faith to make it more affordable... that is a complete joke.
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rodeodance
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
43. So, how will O. make the Insur. companies comply??? : |
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She wants the healthcare insurance industry (who gives her lots of money) to She wants the healthcare insurance industry (who gives her lots of money) to act on good faith to make it more affordable... that is a complete joke.to make it more affordable... that is a complete joke.
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Control-Z
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message |
24. And doesn't universal coverage mean |
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"universal" coverage? I mean, either everyone is covered or it's not universal. Right?
BO's coverage is not universal.
K&R
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Dob Bole
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message |
28. Why Clinton is right to go after Obama...um, she is trying to win an election. |
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Will she? Probably not. Still, I don't see why she should be faulted for at least TRYING to win.
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krabigirl
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Sun Feb-24-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
57. exactly...she should have done this ages ago. |
RunningFromCongress
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message |
41. To say that if health care is affordable to all, and you don't think people would buy it is to say |
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you believe the American people are too stupid to be responsible for themselves. There's no reason to mandate health care for anyone but children if it's affordable for every american.
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billyoc
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Sat Feb-23-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message |
48. She'd better come out blasting, her campaign has nothing else left. nt |
OhioBlue
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Sun Feb-24-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message |
50. how does she know if it is affordable? |
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Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 12:01 AM by OhioBlue
If someone is self-employed and makes $50k on paper but still lives pay check to pay check, has a mortgage, credit card bills, a student loan or whatever - their true disposable income doesn't show up on their tax return. How does she know if this person can afford another $300 or $400 a month or whatever the price is?
Also - she has to have exemptions. I've been thinking about the Amish community. They can't be forced into purchasing health insurance.
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LeftCoast
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Sun Feb-24-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message |
51. Though many will attempt to change the subject, the fact remains |
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that their anti-Hillary criticisms were wrong. People are so anxious to believe the absolute worst about Hillary that it blinds them to reality. It's not healthy.
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Control-Z
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Sun Feb-24-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message |
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You've already recommended that thread.
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ElsewheresDaughter
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Sun Feb-24-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message |
56. WOOT WOOT GO HILLARY!!! that's my gal! |
amborin
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Sun Feb-24-08 01:51 AM
Response to Original message |
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that obama flyer attack on hillary's healthcare plan was so slimy and evil
obama authorized it, too
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Yael
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Sun Feb-24-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message |
63. Thanks for the report! |
AGirl
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Sun Feb-24-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
65. LOL. what does that picture has to do with anything? please explain... |
Yael
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Sun Feb-24-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #65 |
66. Up is down, black is white -- Baghdad Bob logic |
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I do miss me some B-Bob. He was a HOOT.
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AGirl
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Mon Feb-25-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #66 |
68. how is my original post illogical? if that is what you are implying.. |
boppers
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Sun Feb-24-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message |
67. How can someone homeless and jobless be "mandated"? |
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I'm not seeing universal coverage in either plan.
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ElsewheresDaughter
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Mon Feb-25-08 12:02 AM
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