Shrill, hysterical wifey fit, unhinged, bitch, witch......

[BooScout]

....just a few of the lovely descriptive terms pulled off page 1 of GDP.

Now tell me again how Democrats are the party that embraces women.

Shame on you. Shame on you.

[LadyVT]

1. way more concise than my post... thanks! :)

[Metric System]

2. You're wrong. Democrats do embrace women...but only if they support Obama.

[psychopomp]

103. Oh, so now all Dems are somehow anti-woman?

That is just a pathetic smear.

Go on, Clinton supporters, continue to try to take the whole Democratic party down with your candidate.

[pnwmom]

201. Not ALL Dems. But no one who calls himself or herself a progressive

should disparage Hillary in sexist terms -- and far too many here do.

[barb162]

306. pnwmom

No one should be disparaging anyone in sexist or racist terms. I most heartily agree with you.

[The Doctor.]

382. Don't be fooled guys. This site has a long colorful history of foreign provocation.

After November, watch how many of these operatives vanish.

Sure, many DUers get real passionate about their candidates, but I'd bet that the ugly folks, by a vast majority, have ulterior motives.

[George II]

282. Seems we have to support Clinton or we're anti-woman!

How about all those Clinton supporters, are they "racist"? I wouldn't dare say that, how can those who don't support Clinton possibly be characterized as "anti-woman". Utterly disgusting.

[barb162]

295. Is someone name-calling Obama in racist terms on DU?

There sure are people name-calling Hillary in sexist terms as the OP demonstrates.

[George II]

311. I haven't seen it..

but some of the words considered "anti-woman" are non-sexual, neutral words:

"Shrill"
"Hysterical"
"Unhinged"

perhaps even "Bitch"

Those words can apply to a man as well as a woman. I'd say it's an overreaction to being on the short end of the stick at this pointin the primary cycle.

[lastliberalintexas]

317. No, those are descriptors used to deride women

You very well know that, and if you didn't support the opposing team would admit that. Men are not derided as shrill and hysterical, and are only referred to as a bitch when discussing either their effeminate manners or their subservient (ie, feminine) job or conduct.


I am neither a Clinton nor an Obama supporter, but I must say that the words used to describe Clinton have made my blood boil. I've also seen Obama called a "boy" a few times on this site, and that has been quite disturbing as well, but it does seem to be done less than the sexist rants against Clinton.

[George II]

339. Sorry, I've heard all of those terms used with respect to men, INCLUDING "bitch", i.e.....

"That guy is a bitch of a boss"
"What's he bitching about now"
"This whole discussion is becoming a bitch"

So, project as you will, but do NOT redefine words to suit the "bitch"* of the day

*complaint

[pnwmom]

346. And if people derided straight people by calling them "gay" wouldn't you agree that

that is disparaging?

Oops -- they do!

And it damn well is.

[MADem]

355. Well, you have not heard that word, in that CONTEXT, here, without seeing the post go poof.

Go have a look at the rules; they acknowledge the contextual issues surrounding the word (empowerment, quotation, for example), but the examples you are using, where the word is used as invective, if used here to describe someone or relate an event, would earn you a NAME REMOVED/POST DELETED.

So, project if YOU will, but don't think you'll get away with calling someone here a bitch, or ask what they are bitching about, without getting 'checked.'

[George II]

386. And I never would use those terms here or other places...

but you're losing the point of the post - that one can look at the GDP list of posts and find those words used to refer to Clinton all over they place. Using YOUR OWN correct review of the rules, those posts are removed immediately or very soon after they're posted. So, HOW could GDP be laced with posts using those words in reference to Clinton? Now, during your own defense of the OP you're proving the OP wrong!

Finally, I doubt very much that anyone commenting about someone "bitching about" something that that post would be removed.

[MADem]

408. You confuse me with the original complainant. And you mischaracterize the complaint, which was

not simply about BITCH and BITCHING at all. It was, specifically:

..... but I must say that the words used to describe Clinton have made my blood boil. I've also seen Obama called a "boy" a few times on this site, and that has been quite disturbing as well, but it does seem to be done less than the sexist rants against Clinton.

It's not just that BITCH word. It's the covertly sexist words, like menopausal, crazy, bipolar, witchy, the ubiquitous SHRILL, harpy, over-emotional, excitable...and then there are comments about her voice, her appearance (ankles and ass seem to get more attention than most sixty year olds get), her hairstyle, you name it.

That is what the poster took issue with. Not the "contextual" use of BITCH, which was to imply a powerful female who GETS STUFF DONE, or even the verboten useage of the term.

It's absolutely sexist, those code words sprinkled throughout this forum, it is straight out of the right wing play book, and frankly, to those who use that sort of deliberately covert and COWARDLY invective against her or any other ladies in public or private life, I sincerely wish that a few of Tina Fey's "bitches" would publicly confront them and "get things done" by beating their chickenshit asses to within an inch of their lives in a public location.

It takes a VERY SMALL man, indeed, to behave in such a fashion by using that sort of language towards women. I hope their daughters grow up to abandon them in their old age at rat infested, inferior nursing homes without decent health care, frankly. It's about what they merit.

[George II]

416. No confusion, my post was in response to your request that I review the rules.

I didn't see any violation of the rules by the people who have used certain words.

Many of the other words you refer to above are clearly non-sexual:

Crazy
Bipolar
Shrill (questionable, but used in reference to men as well as women)
Over-emotional
Excitable

[MADem]

421. Those words are plainly used to denigrate women. But do go on continuing to

be deliberately obtuse and contextually clueless. You clearly gain some sort of psychic delight from it.

[George II]

425. HOW???????

You make blanket assumptions but fail to explain them. "CRAZY" denigrates women? Totally insane (ooops, does THAT "denigrate women" too?)

This is getting ridiculous, where common words in the English language are now being used as anti-woman code words.

I've heard Clinton refer to bush's policies as "CRAZY" - how does that square with your new-found definition?

[MADem]

428. "Step" and "Fetch" are "Just Words" too. To partially quote Obama quoting Patrick.

So are "shiftless" and "lazy." JUST WORDS--nothing to do with anything, those words could NEVER be used to identify or insult or demean any group of people! We shouldn't make "blanket assumptions" about those words, now, should we?

Why, 'this is getting ridiculous, where common words in the english language are now being used as anti-black code words!!!'

Those words you pretend to be clueless about are used as descriptors to deny women gravitas in the public square. Where men are decisive, women are pushy. Where men are assertive, women are unhinged, or angry, or dare I say BITCHY. Where men are earnest, forceful, determined, focused, women are crazy, whacko, totally insane.

The fact that you earnestly demand "HOW????" shows us all where your mindset is. You're either being deliberately obtuse, or you are a sexist and the saddest thing of all is that you don't even realize it.

[George II]

429. That is a ridiculous analogy, I'd say "crazy" but would get in trouble....

You are overanalyzing and projecting.

George bush has been referred to as LAZY, he's white.

Dick Cheney has been referred to as SHIFTLESS, he's white.

You are skewing the language to fit your definitions so that you can "prove" people you haven't even met to be anti-woman or racist. You will never find a person LESS "anti-woman" or racist than me. By implying my defense of the English language is offensive. Your twisting of definitions above to agree with something you would LIKE to be true of me shows that you have one major chip on your shoulder.

Yes, I know where my my mindset is - it's the proper use of the English language and not trying to psychoanalyze peoples' use of simple, non-sexist words.

Go read a dictionary!!!!!

[MADem]

432. You would get in trouble? Gee, not too sure of your thesis, then, are you?

I am not "skewing the language" but for someone from the "Just Words" camp, you're the one who is frantic to disprove what Deval-Obama was actually saying about how words matter and have meaning.

I'm well acquainted with the dictionary, thanks for your "concern." You could stand to review an unabridged volume, perhaps.

You go on and keep on thinking like you do, if it makes you happy. You probably see no "loading" in using words like "inscrutable" or "secretive" in referring to Asians, either or suggesting that a Chinese American individual has a 'chink' in his armor.

Thanks for that post, though! You won't mind if I save it, as it is, I trust--I don't want you thinking better of your comments and changing it.

That is a ridiculous analogy, I'd say "crazy" but would get in trouble....
Posted by George II
You are overanalyzing and projecting.

George bush has been referred to as LAZY, he's white.

Dick Cheney has been referred to as SHIFTLESS, he's white.

You are skewing the language to fit your definitions so that you can "prove" people you haven't even met to be anti-woman or racist. You will never find a person LESS "anti-woman" or racist than me. By implying my defense of the English language is offensive. Your twisting of definitions above to agree with something you would LIKE to be true of me shows that you have one major chip on your shoulder.

Yes, I know where my my mindset is - it's the proper use of the English language and not trying to psychoanalyze peoples' use of simple, non-sexist words.

Go read a dictionary!!!!!

[George II]

434. I'm very secure in my thesis, but rationality doesn't always win out on DU these days!

You know, you prove out my opinion about that chip on your shoulder every time you post a response to me. You're walking around with a truly negative attitude, now adding more innocuous words and twisting them to be sexist or racially biased.

Who in their right mind would associate the words "inscrutable" or "secretive" with a slur on Asian people? As a matter of fact, in the academic and business world for more than 40 years in a large cosmopolitan city (NYC), I've NEVER seen ANYONE associate either of those words with Asians. Could be that YOU are the closet racist here? That would be the only explanantion for you coming up with these questionable associations of simply normal words with racist terms.

You definitely need a severe attitude shift!

[MADem]

436. I don't have a chip on my shoulder. You're trying to justify your own behavior by trying to put it

on me--but that isn't cutting it. You deny that language carries with it racist and sexist connotations when used in certain contexts, and you do it with no small amount of smug pride.

That is indicative, and what it is indicative of reflects poorly on you in the extreme.

Funny, Asians see the word as discriminatory. But I guess their "attitudes" need shifting, too, eh?

Here, read the bit entitled "See ya, Get Used to It, Stanton" about three fourths of the way down the page: http://www.angryasianman.com/2007_05_01_archive.html

Here's another one of those --what, WHINING?--Asians noting the whole "inscrutable" theme: http://www.racialicious.com/2006/10/09/the-departed-full-of-racist-asian-stereotypes/

You say you are in the academic/business world? Perhaps you're part of the problem, why children don't know their history, and why a worker can't make a living wage?

Your defense of the indefensible certainly suggests that. I suppose the terms Crystal and Night used in proximity to the word Jew carry no special import, either?

If anyone needs edification, it's you. You are obtuse. And your commentary is reprehensible.

[George II]

437. From where I come from, on top of that chip you'd be said to have some chutzpah!!!

You put words into my mouth, use ordinary words not normally associated with racism or sexism and then call it MY commentary? Unbelievable.

Here are a few more examples of YOUR words that are derrogatory to Asians, Blacks, etc. that totally blow your premise out of the water:

Donald Rumsfeld, inscrutable:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0926-02.htm

“What is unusual about the Wolfowitz-Powell split is its public nature and the fact that a full cabinet member has been pitted against a mere deputy. Mr Rumsfeld has played an inscrutable role in the debate, sometimes appearing to endorse caution; "

Condoleeza Rice (of course, you’ll find some connection between me using “rice” and “inscrutable”), inscrutable:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/11/biz-07women_Condoleezza-Rice_MTNG.html

“Highly visible, Rice is at the same time curiously inscrutable.“

Cheney AND Bush (lazy AND shiftless):

http://blog.case.edu/singham/politics/index

Michael Ledeen: “He tells the lazy, shiftless Cheney/Bush team to get off their butts and start invading other countries: "he only way to demonstrate a will to win is to go after the Iranians and the Syrians, as well as the terrorists already inside Iraq." “

Even Ronald Reagan got in on the act, referring to George Bush:

http://tygerland.net/2007/08/20/ronald-reagan-george-w-bush-was-shiftless/

“Not the political one who lives in Florida. The one who hangs around here all the time looking shiftless. This so-called kid is already almost 40 and has never had a real job.”

And it goes on and on if you’d like more examples. So, YOUR self-created sexist/racist definitions are just that, YOUR self-created sexist/racist definitions. In fact, you’re so obsessed with this that you inscrutably and shiftlessly REWRITE one of my own sentences in order to prove your off-base, incorrect presumption.

As far as Crystal and Night (aka Krystalnacht, get it right!) and Jews, you have no idea who you're talking to! I am a JEW from Flushing NY (which is now about 90% Asian, by the way), and my parents lived there until a couple of years ago. We would never think twice about seeing the words chrystal and night in the same sentence, context notwithstanding, and we all get along fine with the large Korean population living in our home town.

Only some person down on life with a totally negative attitude LOOKING for connections would come up with a comment like yours.

Back to the dictionary!!

[MADem]

439. No, I don't put words in your mouth. You have a lot of "nerve" though.

You ignore the context. Context is EVERYTHING.

But you play dumb, and desperately search for halfassed examples to prove your point. Google all day, google all night!

And then, you quote a blogger who is deliberately using racist language (a point you completely miss) to make a point about Michael Ledeen. who is all on his own, particularly amusing. Al Haig's attack dog, who was denied tenure at Washington University for being a pisspoor scholar. A fucking loudmouth idiot. Yeah, I'm IMPRESSED with Ledeen...not!

:rofl:

And see--your ox is gored, so you would NEVER think of using those Crystal and NIGHT words!! (Pssst, smartass--you spelled it wrong) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht So, take your scolding little "aka Krystalnacht, get it right!" with your stripper spelling of the German (not the English translation) word for crystal, and stick it. Because, genius, you didn't get it right--and that's been a pattern with you.

You completely lack any ability to empathize with others outside your own group, which says something pretty sick and sad about you.

I provide you with two examples of how Asians get pissed off at "inscrutable" but fuck them--they aren't YOU, so who cares what they think, eh? And just so you know, Rice and Rumsfeld AREN'T Asian. So why would THEY be offended by a word that is used to insult Asians, hmmmmmm?

[George II]

440. Gosh, I prove the idea of each and every one of your "racist" and "sexist" words is WRONG..

and what do you do? You throw a hissy-fit!

This discussion has gone way off track and you are SO stubborn and ill-informed that it means nothing any more. You'll go through life with an inferior attitude and chip on your shoulder, while I and others discuss the political climate intelligently.

You know, you remind me of Alvie Singer in "Annie Hall", in a number of ways. Watch the movie, check the similarities.

Buh bye....

[MADem]

443. You are the one "hissyfitting." How many times will you respond to one post?

You didn't prove shit. Saying so doesn't make it so--you have no magic wand nor any power of persuasion, either. You certainly play fast and loose with facts.

Move along, now...you are acting like a hyperactive ass, and you're committing the worst sin of all--you're BORING.

:hi:

:eyes:

[George II]

441. PS - if you want to respond to one of my posts...

RESPOND TO ONE OF MY POSTS, not your own!!

[MADem]

442. I did. Having trouble, I see....getting a bit excited and hyperposting.

You have a problem. It's yours, not mine.

Step off, now.

:hi:

:eyes:

[aquart]

325. "Non-sexual"? "Neutral"????

The amount of self-deception here is at the clinical level.

[George II]

340. How so? A one-liner doesn't cut it when insulting other posters.

[pnwmom]

348. Do you decide what slurs black people are allowed to be offended by?

I assume not.

Then what gives a guy the right to decide that terms like bitch, witch, harpy, or whore are inoffensive to women?

[George II]

385. I NEVER said "witch, harpy, or whore" were NOT offensive to women!!

Can you find where I did? DO NOT misrepresent what I said - that is disingenuous and disgusting!

[pnwmom]

345. Some Italian people have brown skin. Some Irish people have kinky hair.

But it would STILL be racist to make fun of Obama for his skin color or the texture of his hair.

And even though some men might have higher-pitched voices, it is still sexist to make fun of Hillary's.

And what gives you the right to say that "bitch" isn't equivalent to the N-word? Women can feel the hate in the word, even if YOU don't.

[papau]

357. nonsense - you appear to refuse to see the obvious

[pnwmom]

342. When do you see Clinton supporters make fun of Obama's skin color or the

texture of his hair? Or call him racist names that are the equivalent of witch or bitch? I have never seen a DUer mock Obama for characteristics due to his mixed race. Have you? No. THAT would be utterly disgusting.

And yet countless times I've seen DUers call Hillary a witch or a bitch or a whore, or mock her for her higher-pitched voice, or her feminine body shape -- or, in the case of her pantsuits, for not conforming to feminine "ideals."

And that IS utterly disgusting.

[October]

319. O.P. is correct. And made the post without having to denigrate Obama

You, on the other hand, cannot support your candidate of choice without taking ugly swipes at Clinton's supporters.

[BoneDaddy]

330. Typical Clinton post

instead of dealing with the real reasons why people do not like their candidate it HAS to be about her gender. Sad.

[pnwmom]

350. Typical bone-headed response to the concerns of people who understand

that the sorry spectacle of Hillary's treatment in this election is a reflection of society's treatment of women in general. Sorry, but I'm not in either candidate's camp. This isn't just about Hillary.

ALL WOMEN are hurt by the sexist treatment Hillary has been getting throughout the media and even, sometimes, in "progressive" venues like DU.

[BoneDaddy]

363. You love living in the midst

of your own suffering drama, don't you. You are the type of person who finds the negative in everything. Addicted to your isms, it must be a struggle for you to get through a day happy.

[pnwmom]

368. I'm doing just fine, thanks. I have a wonderful husband and three great kids.

But you must be driving some poor woman crazy.

[BoneDaddy]

369. Actually she is quite pleased with me

and I with her. Great relationships with my family and friends.

But talk about projection, will yah?

[pnwmom]

370. You're the one who made this personal, not me. Or don't you read

your own posts?

"You love living in the midst of your own suffering drama, don't you. You are the type of person who finds the negative in everything. Addicted to your isms, it must be a struggle for you to get through a day happy."


Talk about projection . . .

[BoneDaddy]

389. Was that before or after the "bone-headed" comment?

I think it is amazing and wonderful that come next year we will have either a woman or a black man as our president. I don't like Hillary much, never have but I will vote for her if she is the candidate. I just tire of the Hillary fans who justify her losses on sexism. Edwards is accused of being gay, Obama has been linked to Osama and he is smeared as well. This is the big show, they play dirty. I don't enjoy or support the kind of personal attacks that have gone on, not only in the democratic camp but also among the republicans. But it is reality.

I, in general, have a great deal of respect for words, even the vulgar. Words have power only if you let them have power. I do not trust those who want to get rid of words they think offensive. Sometimes shrill is the only appropriate word. I reject the right wing conservative fundamentalist christian imposition of their belief system on me and I reject the leftist political correctness gone amok. It comes from the same mindset, the same radical certainty of what is thought is right.

[pnwmom]

394. I'm sorry for that, since it must have bothered you.

However, I and many women are bothered by the fact that men like you don't even try to "get it."

The OP wasn't about CLINTON. The poster may not even be a Clinton supporter. The poster is about language that her opponents have used time and time again, that is derogatory toward all women, not just Hillary. If people want to criticize Hillary about Iraq, about NAFTA, about a hundred other issues, FINE. Go ahead -- I won't criticize anyone for that.

But people who call her sexist names equivalent in hate to the N word, or describe her body in ways that are equivalent to making fun of a black person for having darker skin or curlier hair, are as guilty of sexism as those others would be of racism.

[BoneDaddy]

418. I get it, I just don't agree with you

and I resent this often used approach by many women, and some men, on this board to brow beat and label any man, or woman, who may disagree with them. This is the big league and if you haven't been paying attention over the past elections, anything is game (ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, too liberal or conservative etc). I may not like it, but I struggle with the many posts that suggest the removal of words and language that they find offensive. I find that left leaning control as scary as I do the christian fundamentalist burning Harry Potter books. In an effort to legislate individual behavior, they tend to cross the line into some political correctness fascism.

Here we are on the cusp of potentially electing a woman or black man president and so very soon (relatively) since these two groups have gained power. I think that is great movement as a country.

Your comment about "bone-headed" didn't bother me really, I was just pointing out that you made the first personal attack. My first response was about how typical Clinton defenders consistently bash sexism over the heads of anyone who disagrees with them... it was a general observation.

[KoKo]

376. Agree....and while there was an outpouring of disapproval over Imus' Behavior...the

stuff that's been going with Matthews and Joe & Mika on MSNBC and even over there over at CNBC (all GE owned) has only gotten some disapproval on the progressive internet sites. It's considered funny and yet those aren't comedy shows on late night cable.

I've wondered if all this sexist language wasn't ramped up just because a female was running. But, we know Matthews has always had strange taste in language and that MSNBC kept Imus on for so long was a clue that they both felt it was acceptable to talk about women in ways that go back to an uglier time.

We've all gotten really loose in our language these days, and many have felt it was a change in our culture that was for the good...and we shouldn't get all up tight about it. But, like everything the pendulum has swung so far that when grown people start talking like folks used to think was "locker room bantering" by adolescent boys...then we might be having a problem.

On a lighter theme....I get freaked out by anchors who refer to everyone as "You Guys," when referring to a male and female or two males and two females or a group of people. Who is "You Guys?"

[pnwmom]

392. It's embarrassing how far our language is deteriorated. Even my husband,

who HATES the whole concept of England's Royal Family, has commented about how articulate they all are, even though none of them are supposed to have been good students. Why is it that spoken English seems to have deteriorated so much more in America than in England?

One thing I'll say about my kids (ages 15 and up) -- I never hear them or their friends engage in nasty talk, even say the word "fuck." I've never told them not to, either -- however they talk when they're alone (I can't know that, obviously), they never do it around the adults they know.

[MADem]

444. I suppose "You guys" is the generic for "You Kids (of all ages)"

It's better than going back to "Hey, You Guys and DOLLS," I suppose....

The meaning of the word "guy" hasn't changed much over the years, but "You guys" has morphed into a somewhat different meaning, to include the casual inclusion of everyone in the general vicinity, regardless of gender.

:crazy: :shrug:

[Rockholm]

381. What are the real reasons people support Obama?

Can't think of ONE substantive one.

[rodeodance]

424. Hey--where you been--it is the Obama folks using these gendered words in a demeaning

fashion! some of them---not all.

[knowledgeispwr]

3. There are several sexist and racist threads on the front page of GDP right now

It's sick.

[lapfog_1]

150. Yes, Maddy McCall has alerted all of us to the situation

and some of us (together) have been hunting these down, asking the OP to delete if possible, alerting the mods if that doesn't meet with success.

This is not something supported by all (or even a large minority) of Obama supporters.

There are also a number of racist threads as well... doing the same with them.

We need to be civil to each other... at least to some level of civility.

We can disagree without the sexism, racism, homophobia and name calling. At least I hope we can.

[awoke_in_2003]

212. "We need to be civil to each other"

Hell yes. It is getting bad. I have a DU bumper sticker on my truck (from the last time I was able to afford to donate). In the past I got asked quite a bit about it. Hell, six months ago I had decent conversations with decent "republicans"- discussing the dismal state of affairs in this country. But just the other day, a long lost friend stopped by, and asked me about it. We got in to a good convo, but I all I could say about DU now is that it is one big pissing match. When people come here, the first page the see is the front page, and a lot of these shitty threads easily get K&R'ed to the front page. Cannot wait until primary season (and the two week backlash from the losers) is over.

[Common Sense Party]

243. "What's wrong wif being sexy?"

[MethuenProgressive]

285. It's the New DU. DUbamas fell for the RW's Propaganda, but the rest of us...

..don't hate Hillary Clinton.

[barb162]

308. Can you point out a racist thread?

I just looked and don't see any.

[knowledgeispwr]

318. I posted my first reply last night...

here is a post of mine from last night with links to racist threads.

[BlooInBloo]

353. Nice examples - standard for DU.

[pnwmom]

351. Are there racist threads mocking Obama's skin color or his hair texture?

I've never seen any, have you?

But I've seen countless posts mocking Hillary for her feminine characteristics, or perceived lack thereof.

But sexism like that isn't condemned the way racism here would be.

[grasswire]

4. I never thought it would happen.

And why doesn't Obama raise his voice to stop it?

[Straight Shooter]

39. For the same reason bush never raised his voice to stop the Swiftboaters.

It benefits him. It shows him how far people are willing to go to denigrate his opponent, which is, in effect, a test of their loyalty.

[DemBones DemBones]

206. Exactly, and that's why he'll lose.

If he can't even keep his supporters from being sexist, ageist bigots, he sure as hell can't lead the country.

[barb162]

294. Here, here!! Exactly correct.

Nice seeing you again... I always like your posts.

:hi: :hi: :hi:

[Cameron27]

296. It's digusting,

sexism and homophobia are as vile and as damaging as racism. I think you're right, this will cost him.

[mckeown1128]

76. wait, wait, wait....

Are you saying that Obama is responsible for what people on DU say about Hillary? :rofl:

[MADem]

356. I think the notion is this: "By his supporters, we shall know him."

A bit of of riff on his JESUS The MESSIAH persona--the old "Do this in memory of me."

Hey, people ARE judged by the company they keep. You keep company with Your Messiah, we have to figure you're getting your little parables on how to behave from him and his Apostles.

So you just keep rolling around and laughing.

It's just so AMUSING to discrimate!! "Tee hee!"

:eyes:

[barb162]

297. Because he supports it. If he doesn't support it, he'd open his mouth

against it.

[ExPatLeftist]

395. Public criticism of his supporters by a candidate?

...based on a very small percentage of his constituents, most often posting on message boards?

Seriously?

If any candidate had to address all infractions by their supporters, they would have no time for anything else, and call me strange, but I think that constantly scolding one's own supporters might be just a tad counterproductive...

I cannot see any relation to reality with that suggestion.


No candidate is responsible for the acts of his supporters - any nut can throw his lot behind any public figure at any time. In what sort of alternate reality does that somehow besmirch the candidate?

A lot of people on BOTH sides relentlessly smearing the opposition and claiming that the OTHERS are horribly smearing them... Trying to link their acts to the candidate they support... IMO the things those people say do NOT reflect on the candidate they support (I prefer logic), but the sum total of thesee types of posts unfortunately speaks volumes about the state of this message board, and the nation.

[polmaven]

396. Because he may not recognize the language as sexist.

When Hillary said that although Dr. King had brought the civil rights movement to the brink, President Johnson's assistance was needed to actually get the legislation passed into law, the MSM was all over the map with charges of racism.

But when Senator Obama says that when Hillary gets upset "out come the claws". it passes with barely a mention. That, to me...and, by the way to Rachel Maddow, a self proclamed Obama supporter...is a very sexist remark, but I heard it played/mentioned only on Dan Abrams.

[MaineDem]

5. It seems it really is easy - and somewhat accepted - to be sexist

It makes me sick.

[pnwmom]

202. I wonder if someone can explain to me why it's okay to laugh at a black male

actor playing the "humorous" role of a very large black woman -- which I ran across while channel surfing today --

and yet we all agree that it is never appropriate for a white person to put on "black-face" for the purpose of a spoof?

Why is it okay to laugh at a guy pretending to be a woman, and not at a white person pretending to be black?

Frankly, I don't think either situation is funny.

But we tend to overlook the sexism in the one situation, while condemning the obvious racism in the other. Why?

[MADem]

364. Why do men have to change RACE to play women, though?

I don't really follow the argument. Martin Lawrence and Eddie Murphy do that fat suit/gender thing for laughs, mainly because:

It is silly, and, particularly before the days where "transgendered" or "transvestite" became words or concepts in our everyday vernacular, it was regarded as "improbable." Improbable events occuring in a comedic context are funny. Nowadays, since the concept is 'slightly' (though not in flyover country, yet) less improbable, the phsyical comedy is even more important. Physical comedy is funny, because it doesn't require language skill to communicate the message.

Sometimes the makeup AND the acting are a bit startling in their realism. That adds to the enjoyment. What's even funnier is if the man has difficulty with the trappings of women's dress, or is forced to be in close proximity to desirable women--see "Some Like it Hot" for the best of that genre.

It's still "OK" to make fun of fat people--they haven't gotten the lobby that other groups have where their plight is given the same degree of sensitivity and nondiscrimination as other groups (do NOT shoot the messenger, please).

It's historic--it goes back to Shakespearian times, actually, when women couldn't legally act, and has been played for laughs in films--The Three Stooges, Milton Berle, for example and has carried forward to Dustin Hoffman's "Tootsie" and Robin Williams' "Mrs. Doubtfire."

There ARE examples of women playing men, too, but the element of FAT isn't always included. Julie Andrews in "Victor/Victoria," Whoopi Goldberg doing the TWO FER (gender AND race) playing an old white guy in "The Associate," to say nothing of the "who the hell was in them" films like "She's the Man" and "Just One of the Guys."

Now, on to the "black face" issue--that actually HAS been done in recent years, but not terribly well. There was a film about a kid who pretended to be black to get a scholarship to Harvard--that really wasn't "blackface" though, it's closer to "ethnic impersonation." Eddie Murphy did the funniest SNL skit I ever saw, where he put on a white disguise and was treated in stunningly different fashion (didn't have to pay for his newspaper or bus ride, when the one black passenger got off the bus, they broke out the champagne and party hats). Chappelle has done similar comedy. Spike Lee took the concept a step further, with blacks in blackface, in "Bamboozled." Actually it wasn't a NEW concept--blacks in blackface date back more than a century and a half, though that is not common knowledge.

I guess that "gender impersonation" and "ethnic impersonation" can still be done--so long as they are done amusingly, and not with a goal to denigrate.

The problem with this Presidential contest, though, is that race has been designated the Third Rail, while gender isn't afforded the same treatment. You WILL get your ass shocked if you go near anything to do with race, but it is still "perfectly OK" to use sexist language and insults.

I guess the women of America haven't come such a long way (Baby) as they thought they might have. And the unfortunate thing is, the young daughters of those women who fought for the rights of women are more interested in taking pictures of their asses hanging out of thongs and posting them on MYSPACE, in being something known as "hot," than preserving the rights their mothers and grandmothers and great grandmothers fought to obtain for them. They just don't understand how rights CAN be taken away, even after they've been granted. They ought to be forced to take an in-depth course in Black and Women's History, and then be required to do a paper on Reconstruction and the Jim Crow Aftermath, and how that might one day apply to their own lives.

[VolcanoJen]

6. As an Obama supporter...

... I couldn't agree more with your sentiment. That kind of garbage, trash-talk is just unbecoming. :-(

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. It's disgusting.

I'd like to think they are all freeper trolls, but that doesn't always seem to be the case, unfortunately.

[jgraz]

8. We just don't embrace crazy women.

9 more days..

[emilyg]

66. Vile.

[Bushwick Bill]

71. High five.

Your signature line is my EXACT sentiment.

[Pamela Troy]

112. "Crazy women" being any woman who raises her voice slightly.

You guys can't even see, it, can you?

[jgraz]

191. Yeah, whatever

9 more days of this crap...

[Pamela Troy]

197. That's the best you can do?

[jgraz]

199. No, that's the best you deserve

[Pamela Troy]

203. Awwww. Don't go away mad!

[femrap]

124. And you have an Edwards avatar????

He'll cut off your teenie weenie for that...no, Elizabeth will....and feed it to the

[jgraz]

193. Yeah, that doesn't promote the castrating stereotype

Way to help the cause. :eyes:

[unapatriciated]

Elizabeth will indeed cut it off ...

she will do it with a smile and he will thank her for it.

[jgraz]

231. Right on, sister! Castrating references for the cause.

You do realize it's the equivalent of me saying John would rape you with a smile and you'd like it, don't you?

[unapatriciated]

280. Yes I do realize it is a sexist statement

It got your attention. The point is many who use the words, shrill, hysterical, unhinged to describe a woman use those words for control or power. Much the same as what you suggest is done for control and power. but hey, you one uped me, feel better.

[jgraz]

300. Funny how these conversations always seem to end with castration jokes/threats

You'd think a feminist would realize how destructive threats of sexual violence can be. Calling Hillary unhinged is not really in the same league.

But thanks for taking the conversation down to its lowest possible level. I knew we'd get there eventually.

[BoneDaddy]

332. Just go to the Women's Rights section

to find a host of anti male rhetoric. They spew their venom and cry foul when the slightest attack on women is uttered. It is power through victimhood. It is cheap, pathetic and ridiculous.

[jgraz]

371. Speaking of unhinged

I stay far away from that forum. There are some sad, brittle people in this world, and the only way they can find a molecule of self-esteem is to create an oppressor in their mind and then viciously attack them. It's embarrassing and pathetic.

[femrap]

409. Oh Yeah!!!! nt

[lapfog_1]

152. jeez, even on this thread.

Really, just stop. That is uncalled for.

The most I will say (and have said) is that Hillary today was Un Presidential. That is damning enough. Not crazy, not hysterical, not shrill... simply Un Presidential.

Let's leave it at that.

[jgraz]

192. Crazy is gender neutral

And a dead-on accurate description of what happened today.

[Marie26]

216. Do you truly believe HRC is crazy?

Come on. I think this thread has managed to hit just about every demeaning stereotype against women.

[jgraz]

218. I think she's come a bit unglued

I'm not sure "crazy" is exactly the right word but whatever is going on with her, it's not what I look for in a president.

[Marie26]

220. And that's fine

But that wasn't what you said above. Once it gets into "hysterical crazy woman" it's definitely hitting some notes. "Crazy bitch" is one of the classic put-downs of women.

[jgraz]

223. Straw man much?

I never used either of the phrases you attribute to me. I used a derogatory (but accurate) description of her mental state, followed by the feminist-approved term for a person of the female gender, which Hillary is.

In truth, it was a relatively mild reaction to her disgusting display.

[Marie26]

224. And you used derogatory language

to do it. There's at least 3 women telling you that - but they're all crazy, I guess.

[jgraz]

225. A woman also started the "hysterical wifey" thread

I guess she was right, too. After all, women are the acknowledged experts on sexism. :eyes:

Bottom line, if Hillary is too fragile to handle derogatory language, she's got no business being in politics.

And if you are too fragile to handle non=gender-specific putdowns, you should probably move to another board.

[Marie26]

229. That's horribly sexist.

Nice attempt at changing the topic, though. See, hysterical is sexist, crazy bitch is sexist, implying that a woman who raises her voice must be mentally unhinged, schizo, etc. is sexist. Sometimes it's good to examine language to see where it might be unintentionally sexist or demeaning - or think about these issues when that is pointed out. But obviously you don't care. Ignored.

[jgraz]

230. Thanks for playing right into the stereotype

When it's all said and done, Hillary will have set women's issues back 20 years.

[galadrium]

271. I think Hillary herself is setting women back 20 years

She seems bipolar in the debates, and THAT plays into stereotypes. One minute she's attacking Obama for "Xeroxing" his whole campaign, then she tries to act like they are just great friends and everything is fine. It seems desperate and every woman I've talked to about it agrees.

[Sonnenschein]

301. Obama is the one who is bipolar. One second he said he applauds

her health care effort of the 90, the next second he attacked and blamed her for failing as if it were not the Republican Louise ads, which were the same ads like swift boats ads that caused her effort to fail.

[jgraz]

303. i know. One minute he's winning by 60 points, the next he's only winning by 30

I wish that guy would make up his mind.

[barb162]

309. And he criped about his supporters being called delusional

and then he goes to campaign stop after campaign stop whooping it up with crazy evangelical claptrap chanting.

[galadrium]

320. It was a good effort, but it was flawed big time

Thats what we was talking about.

[Marie26]

452. Why? Because I'm crazy too?

Any woman who speaks up must be. And a woman who has the nerve to run for President has set back women's rights 20 years - women should realize that the should stay in the quietly in the background. That's the way to get equality! Barf.

[Breeze54]

239. That's why no one likes you.

You should be ashamed of yourself but for that to happen?

You'd have to have a brain.

When they gave out brains, you must have thought they said trains and you asked for a slow one.

What a pity.

[jgraz]

307. Aw, no one likes me. I'm going to go stand in a corner and cry

Do you realize how fucking 4th grade you sound?

[JimGinPA]

9. Is "Unhinged" Sexist?

:popcorn:

[jgraz]

11. To a Hillary supporter, "the" is sexist.

[MaineDem]

18. Sexism is sexism regardless of which candidate one supports

It shouldn't be accepted by anyone.

[jgraz]

23. And calling words like "crazy" and "unhinged" sexist is bullshit

I'm totally on board with getting rid of the rest of the sexist language but if today proved one thing, it's that Hillary is losing because she's a shitty candidate, and not because of some manufactured charge of sexism.

[hfojvt]

40. she's trying to keep a campaign promise

to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. So she started a mobile factory that manufactures charges of sexism. Of course, the workers haven't really gotten paid yet, but they are churning out product and there is hope in some quarters that some people will buy it. It's a potential growth industry.

[femrap]

127. I see your hobby is family history...

so is your sister your mother out there in Kansas? Is that why you don't care for females?

[cornermouse]

Actually people in Kansas are, for the most part,

pretty sane, well educated, and not given to incest. And I wouldn't even be on this thread if the lead-in line on this thread hadn't raised my hackles enough to click on it. Every day I get more and more angry at some of the posters on DU and at what DU has become. I've got several people on ignore. Until lately, I almost never used the ignore button and then only for a few days.

[hfojvt]

316. so if my attempt at a humorous dig at the Hillary campaign

proves that I dislike females, what does your own ridiculous slam at my hobby, my place of residence and my ancestry prove about you?

Bigoted towards midwesterners, which would include - Kathleen Sebelius, Democratic response to the latest SOTU, Nancy Boyda, Stephanie Herseth, Claire McCaskill, and several tens of millions of Kerry voters, donors, and supporters. You even insulted my sister and my mother. So way to stand up for women. Your own mother should be proud. You should email her a link to your post.

[femrap]

412. My mother prefers HRC as well....

Claire has been an embarrassing disappointment. I lived in KC, gave her $, and thought she would vote with the Dems instead of the Repugnants.

And I have to say that Sebelius was DULL. Just like that damn Gov from VA...Tom Kane??? Or was it Kain? Just a total embarrassment. It is as if there is some Repugnant mole Consultant working within the Dem Party who selects the Dem to speak at the SOTU...and IT IS DULL.

And I'm sorry if your mother and sister think these woman are thrilling...

HRC has the experience to be Prez.

My mother said you're naive.

[ExPatLeftist]

414. Hypocrite

So you attack what you assume is a bigoted sexist by showing yourself to be bigoted and ignorant about the entire state of Kansas?

They're coming out of the woodwork these days...

[ErnestoG]

132. HA! Great.

[Common Sense Party]

241. I'll buy stock in that company.

It's a tenbagger for sure.

[Pamela Troy]

113. Anyone who actually understands how sexism works knows

that words like "crazy," "unhinged," "unravelling" are more likely to be applied to WOMEN who exhibit anger -- even dignified, controlled, and articulate anger. It's just another way of saying "she's hysterical."

[grasswire]

119. absolutely

....sometimes they've even called a woman "witch" .....

[jgraz]

214. And they're REALLY likely to be applied to someone who actually IS unhinged.

Face it, Hillary's UI is truly unpleasant. It has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her temperment.

[Pamela Troy]

341. Wild exaggerations about her "breaking down"

when she really merely got choked up, "screaming" when she merely became heated in a debate (as heated, by the way, as Obama and Edwards were, but they of course weren't described as "screaming) and "shrieking" and being "out of control" when she was simply angry have everything to do with her gender.

[hfojvt]

314. you may have a point there, but anybody who understands how politics works

knows that outrageous hyperbolic charges are par for the course in a campaign. You take a charge and run it up the flagpole and see who salutes. In a sense, the charges of sexism are the same way, and I am just one of the non-saluters. Except that the charge of sexism is not being made about Obama, just about Obama supporters.

If an adverb cannot be just an adverb, then it seems to me we are in a situation where "nobody can say anything negative about a woman or minority for any reason" without being charged with sexism or racism. I can easily accept that the b-word, the c-word, the two w-words, the two s-words, etc., are clearly out of bounds, but if simple common words can't be used to describe the behavior of one woman without charges of sexism, then many people are gonna learn that that charge is typically without merit.

[Pamela Troy]

344. Nonsense.

I'm constantly hearing complaints about people here being accused of sexism merely for criticizing Hillary as a candidate. I've yet to see that happen. The accusations of sexism here are pretty consistently valid complaints about posters using terms like "shrieking," "unhinged," "unravelling," etc.

Trying to pass it off as politics as usual is no excuse. I've not seen male candidates subjected to that same level of personal attack.

[hfojvt]

359. a complaint about unhinged, unravelling, claws, or down

does not seem valid to many of us. Whether it happens on this board, the NY President of NOW attacked Kennedy pretty harshly for the mere act of endorsing Obama and also attacked Edwards, Richardson, and Obama for "gang raping" her in the New Hampshire debate.

The RWNM certainly attacked Dean for coming unhinged in Iowa and they also attacked Gore for "going off his meds" during his anti-war speech and other speeches. Gore said forcefully "How dare Bush drag the good name of the United States into Saddam Hussein's torture chambers." and many pundits ran onto cable TV to say "he's lost it" "he's barking mad".

You can say it's bullsh*t to attack her that way. You can say it's dirty and unfair, but I still don't think you have a good case for saying it's sexist.

As for Hillary being subjected to unprecedented attacks, the same was probably true of Bill. There are simply many people in this country who don't like HER, maybe even irrationally hate her. Not because she is a woman, but because of perceived or real character flaws, or even because she is associated with Bill, who they hate. That's mostly why I am opposing her, because I never like Bill, never thought he was very progressive.

[Pamela Troy]

375. Of course it's sexist to consistently describe a woman as "sobbing"

when she's merely gotten choked up, to describe her as "screaming" when she's merely become heated in a debate (while not describing the men who are just as heated as screaming) and to describe her as "shrieking" and "unhinged" when she's angry, but perfectly controlled and articulate. It's sexist in the same way that it's racist to consistently describe black individuals as "lazy," "stupid," and "sullen," and anti-semitic to consistently describe Jewish individuals as "conniving" and money-grubbing.

And no, while Bill Clinton was the subject of many unfair attacks, he was not consistently and repeatedly described as "screaming," "shrieking," "unhinged," etc.

[hfojvt]

387. you made a plural there

"it's racist to consistently describe black individuals as "lazy," "stupid," and "sullen,""

Is it then racist if I describe my co-worker as lazy? I am only talking about one individual when I see examples of his laziness. So we are back to "you cannot observe or complain about the negative qualities of a minority/protected group without being a bigot".

You also created a consistency. It's not really fair to say "DU" does it consistently when DU is several thousand people and it only takes 30 people to put something on the greatest page.

It's just not automatically sexist if I, as one DUer, make a single attack on Hillary, which may be hyperbolic or unfair in the eyes of some. It's one attack on one person, not a "consistent" pattern. And if in the next week some other poster does it, that is still not a consistent pattern.

As far as the "sobbing" incident, the way I remember that on DU was that a good portion of DU was attacking Edwards for his initial statement on the event. There was not some huge field day on Hillary.

To take one or two cases involving one woman, just does not make a strong case for sexism. It's more like crying wolf.

[Pamela Troy]

420. If you and other co-workers frequently and consistently refer to a black

co-worker as "lazy" while not applying that adjective to white co-workers who have exactly the same working habits as the black co-worker, yes, the accusation is racist.

Now you've been reduced to "parsing," usually a sign that someone suspects they might be wrong and is casting desperately about for some way they can convince themselves that they are, in fact, "right." The fact that a significant portion of the posts here refer to Clinton as "unhinged," "unravelling," etc. is undeniable, so you're trying to figure out some way that I'm wrong by focusing on syntax and grammar. "Consistently" in this case means "predictably," and it is a sad fact that these kind of exaggerations of Hillary's behavior have become "predictable" here, on the blogosphere, and in the media in general. Claiming that because DU is an aggregate of individuals, it's not fair to say sexist rhetoric about Hillary has been "consistent" here is, again, nonsense. Using your reasoning, it's not fair to say that the rhetoric of the 1960s American south was "consistently racist" because there were many southerners who were not, in fact, racist. Sorry, but as a white southerner whose family were ardent supporters of Martin Luther King Jr., I can tell you with sorrow and regret, that the rhetoric coming out of 1960s American south was, indeed, "consistently racist" in that the loudest, most prominent voices involved racist stereotypes.

If that single attack you make on Hillary Clinton consists of questioning her mental health merely because she got visibly angry, and is part of a pattern of other posters offering similar insulting exaggerations, then it is indeed part of a "consistent pattern." (What exactly do you think a "consistent pattern" is?)

And as anyone who's been reading this board knows, this is not about merely "one or two cases" involving Hillary Clinton (the only woman who's been a truly viable presidential candidate.)

[hfojvt]

435. a consistent pattern needs to involve more than ten people

and certainly I have noted that some white co-workers are lazy. One was even lazy and a racist.

We all have different perceptions though. What I see as lazy, another person might think is more understandable. Same with unhinged. Same with parsing. You see parsing as desperation, whereas I see it as detailed analysis which determines the truth.

The problem with a supposed "pattern" of that nature is that I may make one attack that you (et. al.) see as unfair. That is one post out of hundreds that I make in a week. Then ten or twelve other posters make attacks that you see as unfair, and suddenly that is a pattern that makes the whole lot of us a bunch of sexists. This out of thousands of posts and when a good portion of "us" are also attacking the people who make ridiculous OPs.

Talk about an unfair attack.

BTW, my "attacks" had nothing to do with unhinged, although I may have been a little unhinged when making them. I said she was dishonest and trying to bribe voters and her (non-sexist?) defenders called me a liar, and as low as snake-sh*t.

In fact, if you parse this thread, you can see one of them calling me inbred, apparently because I am from Kansas and study my family history.

I'm not ready though, to see a pattern of Hillary defenders who are mean-spirited a$$holes.

[misslauren66]

358. That's just bad reasoning.

Just because "crazy" is more likely to be applied to women who exhibit anger doesn't mean that it is never an appropriate description.

Some people have just GOT to find sexist intent under every rock and around every corner. Sometimes "crazy" just means crazy, though this time I think what it really means is unpresidential.

[Pamela Troy]

373. And some people will unfocus their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears,

and stand on their head if they think it can help them avoid admitting the obvious.

As I have pointed out -- repeatedly -- time after time the descriptions of Hillary as "breaking down," "screaming," "shrieking", etc., have turned out to be gross exaggerations. This hasn't happened just once or twice. It's been a consistent pattern. And I say this as an Obama supporter who has my own criticisms of Clinton that AREN'T based on hyperbole.

People here keep trying to pretend that the complaints about sexism are being offered in response to the usual criticisms a politician faces. In fact, they are offered about fairly blatant examples of sexism, such as referring to an angry, but controlled woman as "unhinged" or "shrieking" or implying that she's "bipolar." Lots of you seem absolutely determined to pretend you haven't the foggiest idea how prejudice works.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

217. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

196. Hillary is losing because she's a shitty candidate,"

Amen toots!

[The Wizard]

276. And

running a 1990s campaign in 2008. The old campaign formula became defunct with the advent of the Internet.
The Clintons haven't caught on yet. The idea of raising corporate cash to fund TV ads no one will watch is over.
Political activism is taking place on the Internet, not corporate boardrooms.
Hillary took it for granted that she'd get the nomination, and started tilting right with the expectation of winning over some right leaning fence sitters in the general election. In so doing, she alienated the base that determines the candidate. If Bill Clinton is your candidate, triangulation is a viable strategy. The simple fact is, Hillary isn't Bill. It is surprising that the Clintons, with all their political experience, ran a primary campaign with a general election strategy.
Barack Obama will be the next President, barring any shenanigans by the Republican/Bush cartel.

[barb162]

299. And when she wins the next two states, I assume you'll state Obama is the shitty candidate?

:eyes:

[polmaven]

397. It's more likely

there will be a very loud charge of fraud and a persistant call for a recount.

[Raejeanowl]

222. Yeah?

So why does it require you calling her "crazy" and "unhinged" or anything else over-the-top if the real problem is something else more fundamental to the other connotation of competence?

[jgraz]

232. Because she's tearing down our presumptive nominee and handing the GOP weapons

And she can go fuck herself.

[barb162]

302. She'll win TX and Ohio and will be the presumptive nominee.

Then I presume you'll say Obama can go fuck himself as he'll be handing the GOP weapons.

[jgraz]

305. If Obama did the same thing Hillary is doing, you bet I'd tell him to fuck off

But sooner or later you're going to have to face facts. Obama is not only going to win TX and OH, he's going to crush her. Outside of Hillary's core voters, people do not like the kind of bullshit she's pulling.

[Sonnenschein]

352. Why is your logic? Obama did not hesitate to tear Hillary down so he should fuck himself?

[Hepburn]

287. Plenty of times I have called...

....Bush "crazy" and "unhinged."

Stop looking for sexims where it does not exist, OK?

BTW: I am female and I have NO problem being classied or called a bitch. I AM a bitch...a REAllY good bitch and I have spent YEARS perfecting my ability to so this.

So bring it on...and I take it as a compliment because any time someone cannot stand up to me and intellectually go after me, I KNOW I own them the second the term "bitch" passed his/her lips.

[hfojvt]

30. sometimes an adverb is just an adverb

or are those adjectives? Verbs? Subjunctive clauses?

Get me the grammer police! Hurry!

Things like "down" and "unhinged" do not seem sexist to most people, but Hillary supporters have claimed they are. Some have claimed that even endorsing Obama is also sexist, some kind of betrayal of all women.

Somebody needs to create an "offensive code word" scan program that can be run like a spellcheck, to keep haples ingenues from getting stuck in the tar baby of recriminations.

[Clovis Sangrail]

33. 'down' is sexist now too 0.o... missed that one /nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. By the standard applied to Hillary

Dick Gregory was positively off his rocker on his way to another solar system unhinged in his appearance at the State of the Black Union convention today. He was also brilliant. What got talked about was his brilliance, not his number 14 rating on a scale of one to ten for emotions, with 0 being dead pan and Ten being emotions running totally out of control. Women are allowed a very narrow range of emotional expression in public performances if they are expected to be taken seriously. The problem with that is they have to assert leadership with just half the tools available to men - who can run hot or cold without anyone blinking either way.

[SayitAintSo]

156. Thank you - you are so right....

Your observations are core to the many reasons so many women increasingly relate and sympathize with the treatment of Hillary.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

190. true that!

[Cameron27]

304. Amen

[Maven]

336. VERY well said.

Thank you.

[Yael]

54. Why no, no it isn't

Unless it is against the Queen.

[goclark]

59. Wasn't Dean's scream "unhinged?"

[Common Sense Party]

242. Yes, now that you mention it.

But it was that time of the month.

:hide:

[barb162]

313. N-O.

It was exuberant.

[applegrove]

10. Thank you for saying it. I read all the posts about how crazy & unhinged Hillary was...

then I saw the video of her attack. She had every right to call him out. She had might and was not unhinged. It was a letdown to see the video really. I was expecting some spit to hit me in the face.

[paperbag_ princess]

260. I too saw the commentary before the clip

I was worried, thinking "my word" ..."what in the world happened?"

The clip itself is just a person who was expressing righteous indignation in a calm yet forceful manner. Now I think it is all politics...pretty much everything out of both of their mouths is designed for effect.

I even asked my husband what he thought thinking I might be biased. He said if anyone thinks that there is something wrong with her speech then it has to be based on sexism..it was a very normal display of emotion.


Hillary just can't win...if she shows emotion then she is a hysterical "bitch" if she keeps it in, then she is a cold calculating "bitch"....the common denominator is that some people just see a woman with any form of power that they disagree with as a bitch.

[ErnestoG]

12. "Unhinged" is NOT a gender specific criticism.

No matter how many times you want to scream the opposite.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. No, but "bitch" and "hysterical wifey" are.

As was the reference to PMS and Midol in a recently-deleted thread. In that context, "unhinged" just adds to the inference. I don't think Clinton is at all unhinged, and certainly none of those other things. She seemed to be angry, and whether the anger was justified or just a political maneuver is a fair subject for discussion. But these sly references to her behavior as somehow uniquely female (and not in a good way) are just disgusting, coming from people who claim to be liberal or progressive.

I'm supporting Obama, but I am appalled at the way Senator Clinton is being vilified by some here. I wish those of you who think it helps Obama to say those things, just stop it, because it doesn't. I'm ashamed on account of some of you.

[Whisp]

53. are you sure the PMS/Midol poster

is not a campaigner/supporter for Clinton and going for just the effect?

the clinton campaigners play dirty, down dirty as shown in the last while. Shame on Them.

[BooScout]

55. Oh that is really rich.......

Blaming it on Clinton???? Seriesly???:eyes:

[Whisp]

65. I know, I am appalled at thinking that way.

but recent events show me that this is quite possible. and easy as ole hell, isn't it?

Clinton sees her last stand on using division and faux outrage to attempt to stem the flow of valid criticism toward her past record. She has Nothing to defend herself with honestly and only has mud wrestling as her last ditch effort. She is not to be trusted.

[Pamela Troy]

114. Appalled? Yeah, right.

Suuuuuurrrreee you are.

Another concern troll heard from.

[okasha]

57. And rape victims bring it on themselves. . . .

n/t

[Whisp]

69. o, thankyou. I forgot to put that line in.

let me edit!

how you get from there to there is beyond my comprehension. but lots of things are lately.

[BooScout]

87. How you don't get it is what's appalling.

:eyes:

[Pamela Troy]

115. Obviously.

It's called "blaming the victim."

[jgraz]

77. Way to go over the fucking top

You are nothing if not predictable. :thumbsup:

[ErnestoG]

125. then stop hammering on "unhinged" please. That is an appropriate, NONsexist descriptor

[BooScout]

134. stop splitting hairs

In the context it's been used it can be construed as sexist.

[ErnestoG]

140. "Can be construed"? Talk about SPLITTING HAIRS!

I can "construe" an apple core as an insult too. That doesn't mean there is enough credible context to do so.

[yardwork]

41. Still trying to salvage your flip flop, huh?

[rodeodance]

60. BUT your post got LOCKED as it should have.

[suziedemocrat]

82. It reminds me of hysteria, the frequent diagnosis for women during the victorian era.

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria

Female hysteria was a once-common medical diagnosis, made exclusively in women, which is no longer recognized by modern medical authorities. It was a popular diagnosis in Western nations, during the Victorian era, for women who exhibited a wide array of symptoms including faintness, nervousness, insomnia, fluid retention, heaviness in abdomen, muscle spasm, shortness of breath, irritability, loss of appetite for food or sex, and a "tendency to cause trouble".<1>

1. Rachel P. Maines (1999). The Technology of Orgasm: "Hysteria," the Vibrator, and Women's Sexual Satisfaction. Baltimore: The Johns Hopkins University Press. ISBN 0-8018-6646-4.

[LoZoccolo]

129. Of course not, because this isn't about sexism.

It's about trying to browbeat critics of Hillary Clinton.

[femrap]

130. Maybe you are

right....Obama is unhinged from his grandmother. She is a poor women living in Africa with no running water available. He, however, likes this. He uses this fact in his political speeches...it shows that he can relate to POOR PEOPLE. He keeps his grandmother POOR so he can relate to other poor people.


HEY YOU UNHINGED ASSHOLE....SEND YOUR GRANDMOTHER SOME FUCKING $$$$$$$!

Yes, I will continue to use UNHINGED in relation to BO and his poor, poor grandmother.

[Tennessee Gal]

13. I wholeheartedly agree!

Now, let's watch and see how many more they add to this thread.

[saracat]

14. This makes me ashamed to be a Democrat.That and the attacks on Chelsea

Misogyny is alive and well on DU. Funny how racism is not tolerated but sexism is embraced.And yes Virginia , women were enslaved for centuries in before AA persons were and Black males got the right to vote before women of any colr. This is in response to the statements on DU that women haven't "suffered " as much as Balcks. Both yhave suffered and anyone notice the ERA hasn't yet been ratified? Meaning women are NOT a "protected class" but race is.Hmm.

[alarimer]

85. It's why I voted for Clinton at early voting today

I cannot stand the attacks by Obama "supporters", many of the worst ones I suspect are really republican trolls. But I decided I was pissed off at the clear sexism of much of the talk here but also in the media.

I had wanted to vote for Edwards and I planned to but I decided at the last minute that my vote should actually count for something and I voted for Clinton for no other reason than to say "fuck you" to the very worst Obama trolls on here.

I saw the debate and there is not much difference between the two, policy-wise. Unlike Republicans, these are fundamentally decent people and either will do just fine, given a chance.

[redstate_democrat]

88. Ahhh, women not having the right to vote

I guess that's Obama's fault too. I could tangle with you a little while on the dynamics of this whole black men had the right to vote before women, but I really don't think you have the capability of grasping anything outside of your narrow view of things. So, carry on.

[femrap]

145. You, too, can have ribs removed and

live the life of a happy dog.

you're in a redstate for a reason...must be unhinged!

[dorktv]

237. who said it was his fault? However she has a point.

You do remember that the reason for Seneca Falls was because the women abolitionists were refused seats at the world conferences against slavery?

[femrap]

142. Kick ass, saracat...

And don't get me started on Frederick Douglas and his ridicule of Susan B. after it was declared that it was the Black man's time.....and the sisters waited....what, over 50 years to vote???? After women had worked to help abolish slavery.

I ain't lifting a finger for anyone who treats me like dirt. Hear that Dem Party???? You lose in 2008...you know who to blame.

And if anyone calls me selfish...fine...I'd rather be called that than a stupid cocksucker.

[jillan]

321. Saracat -

:yourock:

[Maddy McCall]

15. Thank you...

I Rec'd this. Good post.

[BeatleBoot]

16. Sure that wasn't taken from FREE REPUBLIC ?

Freepers and Obama Supporters sound so similar these days...

[QC]

38. Yeah, interesting how that works, isn't it? n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

17. unfortunately you are adding to them in a twisted kind of way-

the bottom line is that people are often stupid and cruel.

And sometimes they dump their own prejudices and personal issues into everything.

I missed most of the posts you are refrencing- but I'm sure they are there- which is dissapointing.

peace~

[NastyRiffraff]

19. This makes me sick

I thought I'd NEVER see outright sexism on a Democratic board. Oh, I know it exists, even among liberals, but usually it's less overt than the nastiness I'm seeing here.

I try to avoid calling "sexism" for every little thing; I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. But some of what I'm seeing, particularly today, can't be called anything else.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. The Level Of Immaturity Has Become Astounding.

We have to be dealing with some really young minds here. That's the only explanation I can think of. It's been a disgusting display for sure.

[DURHAM D]

36. I also thought it was because they are young (and not Dems)

and then I noticed that one of the most offensive Obama supporters said he first voted in 1972.

[flyarm]

96. and one of the worst Obama posts i have seen came from someone with 56,000+ posts.

and i rarely alert but i sure did today..i am so offended by the sexism..and what surprises me most..it is from many females.

My feeling is..i did my job for several generations of women..now if the young ones want to lose all we fought for..well so be it..let them suffer the consequences..i can't stop it and i am too tired trying to.

and have spent too much time in my life trying to make it better for the generations of women to come..now it is there turn..and if they let it go into a shit hole..well so be it..they will pay for it..

we fought so no one else had to ..maybe we made it too damn easy for them.

fly

[DURHAM D]

109. Ditto on that.

They don't seem to get it. Even Chelsea said she didn't really get "it" until the "Iron My Shirt" guys showed up. Chelsea was shocked at the media reaction.

I became vested in Hillary's campaign, in part, because I hoped to witness a 21st century discussion about the institutional sexism still unrecognized. So far it is not happening. However, I can tell you that every old feminists, male and female, that I know is royally pissed off at the media and Obama. And like you, I am tired of fighting for others.

I think a lot of the sexist pigs with female profile are actually not females.

[flyarm]

121. ya know...

i had a 16 yr old cousin who died of a back alley abortion..when i started my job as a flight attendant we got fired if we got married..heaven forbid we got pregnant..many of the gals hid that they got married.

scholarships in college..hahahahahahah..what scholarships?..hell they told us we didn't need to go to college..and equal pay?..oh please...

i flew with GO GO boots..and mini skirts..that men easily put their hands up when we did the Oxygen demo over their seats....and we could do or say nothing ..or if we did we could get fired..

we had to weigh in on each trip we were going out on..and had our nails checked and our hair inspected..

my roommate was put on probation many times because she was a tall big gal..i was tiny so i never had a problem..but she was out without pay.

many businesses were like that..

i could work but couldn't get an apt. without my parents signing for me..see women were not a force to give any respect to.

Oh the stories we could tell..but these young gals don't give a rats ass..and i say..i took early retirement..and i damn well am going to finally retire and let them dig out of their own shit!

ya know we thought we knew so much too,..but i will say..i at least listened..these kids today..nahhhhhhhh

but then again ..i was 19 ..had 3 yrs of college and was on my own in a new city and flying the world..i had a boyfriend in Vietnam flying fighters there..and times were awful in this country..

on my days off i flew to Washington to protest the war ...

hell they are 4-5 yrs older and know everything..don't they?

fly

[DURHAM D]

128. We must be about the same age.

Went I read last February (2007) that Obama said the boomers "need to get over themselves" I was stunned. How does he think he even got to go to college, let alone run for President - the boomers and pre-boomers who thought about someone other than themselves. We always thought and worked for the least among us. I was emotionally separated from my conservative family from adolescence on because of advocacy for civil and human rights.

Its not even a concept anymore.

It was explained to me recently that the newer generations don't think about others - they just think about themselves and they assume that if enough of their fellow me-machines want the same things the "collective selfishness" will get them what they want. Must say my jaw dropped.

[Two Americas]

209. it is very sad

A while back there was a thread here - "would you be willing to put your life at risk for your country?" and on another thread the question came up asking if people were willing to risk jail for their beliefs. In both cases I was stunned and saddened to see those questions overwhelmingly - almost universally - answered with "no!!" Many dismissed or ridiculed the questions themselves. There were only a few of us oldsters who answered "yes."

[flyarm]

256. many of those i worked with went the extra mile for fellow Americans..and

Flew Mac Flights to go into dangerous situations to pick up American families of diplomats and foreign service personel..i flew 3 such flights ..but many of my friends flew them all the time..and they were done with no pay, totally volunteer...and many times into very dangerous areas of the world, under dangerous conditions, and with no attention and no applause. Very brave people who did it for the love of their fellow countrymen.

It is sad what we have become today..we have become a very selfish people.

fly

[femrap]

149. Flyarm speaks the Truth...

You were FIRED if you got pregnant!!! But abortion wes illegal and so many women died or got infections and became infertile.

It would never enter a male's mind to EJACULATE RESPONSIBLY....would it????

Today's youth is a disappointment...they say 'it' skips generations....let's hope the first graders have imagination and creativity.....AND KINDNESS!

Great post!

[BooScout]

122. I'm over it.......

And it's not limited to the internet either. I have heard the same terms from IRL 'friends' and Democrats. It's not new either.......I was hearing terms like these used for years to describe Hillary and other women in positions of power or authority.

[Jamastiene]

391. I'd be willing to bet I know who the 56k+ poster was.

I had to put that person on ignore. Vile. And coming from a woman no less. :puke:

[KhaOZ]

21. The "Woman" Card has been played. Everyone needs to hush now!

[QC]

42. What about the dumbshit card?

Now that you've played it, what should everyone do?

[KhaOZ]

63. why personally attack me? That all you got?

[QC]

67. Well, yeah, that's all I got,

since you didn't really give me anything to work with.

[xmas74]

120. Bravo!

Very nice retort!

[ErnestoG]

131. I think you have 51 more of those left in your deck.

[QC]

137. And you have a granite slab in your deck.

Coming soon!

[ErnestoG]

160. Threats from the Insignificant SO impress me!

How's your day, Sunshine?

[Control-Z]

213. Hard to believe

this one's still around. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting his inevitable pizza party.

[QC]

275. Yes, it is hard to believe.

Generally the ones who are this obvious are only around for a few days, if even that.

[redstate_democrat]

91. Really

I'm astounded at the selective outrage at sexism here on DU. Michelle Obama was threatened with a "lynching party" last week and not one feminist on this board stood up for her and called O'Reilly a sexist for promoting character and perhaps physical violence against this woman. Strange times.

[psychopomp]

101. It is strange, isn't it?

Not a peep when O'Lielly talked about joining a "lynching party" for Ms. Obama from the feminists outraged at people using the wrong adjectives to describe Sen. Clinton.

[DURHAM D]

111. Hello stupid - its not a gender issue.

It is a race and violence issue.

[redstate_democrat]

118. REALLY

asshat? So violence against women breaks down along racial lines? So if Chelsea Clinton had been attacked with a line, like, "We aren't going to start a lynching party against her UNLESS..." Would not that be sexist in that it promotes violence against women and it is coming from a man? Isn't that the issue?

[polmaven]

399. Perhaps you need to check the origin

of the incredibly offensive RACIST term "lynching", and then look up the threads here about that statement.

Lynching is racist, not sexist. Many DUers spoke out against it.

"Now", I'm not saying Billo isn't misognystic as well as racist, but that time it was racism.

[Jamastiene]

393. Uhm, you need to recheck that thread.

Even as a Hill supporter, I jumped to her defense for those comments in at least 2 different threads on the topic. So, there goes your claim that no feminist here stood up for her on that count.

[hfojvt]

22. I don't see the last two terms on page one

perhaps they are buried in the threads.

I have not read any of the threads as I think the topic is kinda stupid. "unhinged" though does not seem sexist. Perhaps similar to what the M$M did to Dean.

Probably I should have been alerting on those titles too instead of just ignoring them.

[jgraz]

28. A quick search reveals the only use of "bitch" and "witch" to be in this thread title.

Thanks for the bullshit concern troll.

[BooScout]

44. look again......

They are there and while not in the titles of threads they are indeed contained in posts.

So thanks right back for your own bullshit concern. And before you go accusing people of being a troll, you might want to check and see how long they have been posting here.

[flyarm]

100. most have been removed..i copied some..so i wouldn't forget who the offenders were!

and when they call for unity in the party ..i want to remember just exactly who the offenders were.

i will have my say then.

fly

[October]

324. And how many posts (like yours) tell her to go f ** k herself?

It's unbelievably ugly here at DU.

[Occam Bandage]

25. Unhinged isn't sexist. It's accurate.

[lapfog_1]

159. No, someone "unhinged" is also deranged...

I found Hillary's speech to the media to be perfectly lucid and purposeful.

Just totally Un Presidential. And that's accurate and damning.

But not unhinged, hysterical, shrill or any of the other silly language that's been flung around here in GDP.

[Clovis Sangrail]

26. 'unhinged' is sexist?

is that because it was applied to a woman or is the word inherently sexist?
please explain

[cbayer]

34. Not inherently sexist

but often when women get angry, they are seen as hysterical and out of control, even if their anger is justified.

[Clovis Sangrail]

46. so when does the term become sexist?

would it be sexist if it was applied to a man who was seen as hysterical and out of control even if their anger is justified ?

I guess I have the same question about the word 'hysterical' as well.
:shrug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

181. Seperate and unequal. Totally different standard gets applied...

all too frequently in describing a man or a woman seeking to be taken seriously while expressing emotion in a public setting. See my post #45 above for todays example.

[Clovis Sangrail]

265. so it's the unequal application of the word and not the word itself

if I understand correctly.

What if the person I use it towards unequally is a male?

[Tom Rinaldo]

266. What if many more Blacks get turned down as renters than whites but

a white is also rejected by an apartment building owner as a renter? "You can't see the forest for the trees" - it's not the exception to the rule that is noteworthy, it's the norm that sets the tone.

[Clovis Sangrail]

279. exceptions define the rules

following your example, if there is a high incidence of landlords turning down black applicants, who are just as qualified as the white applicants, it is racism.

Does that mean that anytime a landlord turns down a black applicant he/she is acting with prejudice towards the person turned down?

If, in fact, there was no racial component to that particular landlord's decision, labeling him/her racist would seem to be prejudice on the part of the person applying the label.

[Tom Rinaldo]

281. Exactly. And if there is a high incidence of male political figures NOT being called "unhinged"

when they display anger in public in a similar manner, that is sexism. I watched that tape of Hillary. She was angry. Maybe her expression of anger will help her campaign, maybe it will hurt it, but that isn't the point. The point is how she as a women gets characterized differently "seperate and unequal" then men. Again it is the pattern, not the specific.

In your own post you describe how a "pattern of racism against Blacks" can be detected even though an individual black may be accepted as a renter and an individual white may not be. It is harder to prove, for that reason, from an individual case without stepping back and looking at the pattern.

This same thing happened to Hillary Clinton before the New Hampshire primary. She showed anger during the New Hampshire debate when both John Edwards and Barack Obama tag teamed her in an attack on her. She defended herself strongly against them and the media started screaming "she lost it!" Main Stream Media started calling that Hillary's "Dean Scream" moment, and speculated on how badly she would be hurt by losing control in that way. Except the voters saw it differently - especially women. People watched the clip from that debate and said, "Where did she lose it? She was defending herself". Then of course the media repeated the same exercise the next day over a different show of emotion when they initially attacked Clinton for bawling in public - until they finally figured out that that line of attack was backfiring also.

[Clovis Sangrail]

374. o.o

You seem seem to be saying that since a preponderance of landlords may be acting in a racist manner by rejecting black applicants that it's OK to assume that any landlord who rejects a black applicant is guilty of doing the same.
I've always thought that everybody should be judged based on their own merits/faults... regardless of what some other similar individuals may have done.

There might actually be something racist about a landlord in a particular case not renting to a black person... and if there is a pattern of this happening it's pretty justified to think "hey, there's a good chance that's racist".
However, until you actually know what was happening with that landlord and that tenant in that particular case, saying he is a racist makes you just as prejudiced as you are thinking he is.

There are obviously some racist or sexist comments that stand on their own as racist or sexist because there is no other possible meaning.
If there is any other possible use for a word/phrase, however, then it can't be said that everybody who uses that word/phrase is racist/sexist, and to do so makes you no better than those you accuse.

'Unhinged' is one of those words.
Google "he was unhinged" and then "she was unhinged"
Count the hits and read some links.
It's very obviously not always used in a sexist manner (or even most of the time), so use of the word alone is not evidence of sexism.
:shrug:

[femrap]

151. read my post above about

Bo and his unhinged behavior about his grandmother with no running water....he likes her poor. It helps his career...poor people can relate to him since Granny is po'.

It's a great unhinged political strategy.

Instead of 'Yes We Can' let's do 'No Running Water. No Running Water.' OK?

[frakus6]

27. Typical Obama supporters

They'd better not come crying to me when a majority of Hillary supporters (and other dissafected Democrats) sit this one out or vote McCain in November. You can take your mean, hysterical, "fainting" hipster cult and shove it!

The constant smearing of hillary is disgustin. How do you expect party unity when the Obama wing has formed its own party!

[IndyOp]

48. Frakus, with all due respect - bull. The people posting that shit are NOT typical Obama supporters.

Read the thread - you will see a bunch of replies from Obama supporters telling the poster to knock off the sexist crap.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4732490

[frakus6]

49. too much of it has gone one

gracious level headed obama supporters exist, but the smears against hillary are just out of control. not just on this board.

[IndyOp]

68. Do you really believe that the smears against Hillary by supposed Obama supporters

are really all by Obama supporters? Some are just people to like to kick up shit - any shit - anywhere. Some are people who support Ron Paul or John McCain who want to cause the Democratic Party to implode. Some may be Hillary supporters who are trying to make Obama supporters look bad. Some are by Obama supporters and I am embarrassed by them and I remember that posting anonymously on message boards tends to bring out the worst in people.

There are many, many gracious level-headed Hillary supporters and there are many, many gracious level-headed Obama supporters.

The world of the internet is not the real world.

[ErnestoG]

135. What's next? "All Blacks can sing and dance"?

I mean as long as you are in the stereotyping office....

scuse me, that was meant for frakus6

[femrap]

157. You said it, frakus6....

I'm tired of being treated like crap. Obama has alienated both women and older people. And just wait till rove frames this as muslim vs. christian. 'Hey, it doesn't have to be true....just say it enough times and it becomes true.' Rove Lesson #1.

[CatnHat]

194. Couldn't have said

better myself. Obama HAS formed his own party. Obama and his supporters act nothing like Democrats. Hillary's right--when do Democrats start accusing other democrats about something as important as health care. It is an outrage. Obama lies and distorts, that enough for me; and hopefully people will finally get a glimpse of the self-serving, arrogant, mean-spirited campaign that it truly is. It's disgusting and disgraceful to the Democratic party. Better start asking yourselves how far will he get with half the party. Better yet, go find your own party.

[cbayer]

29. It is truly alarming

But I am glad to see that so many good DU'ers are supporting your post.

[BeatleBoot]

31. Obama had another bad day today.

[jgraz]

35. Yeah, he probably only gained 7 or 8 points in the polls.

He'd better watch out, Hillary may cut his lead to single digits by June.

[jgraz]

32. Please point to one thread with "bitch" or "witch" in the title

besides yours, that is.

Seriously, there's enough real sexism posted on DU (along with real racism and homophobia). Don't add to it by making shit up.

[smokey nj]

43. Have you seen this thread, jgraz?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4732490&mesg_id=4732490

[jgraz]

95. Yes, it's disgusting

There are ways to criticize Hillary without taking a dump on every woman on the board. Why is that thread still live?

[smokey nj]

105. It's been locked.

[femrap]

158. Really? When did you get a

conscience?

[jgraz]

186. And who are you again?

:shrug:

[femrap]

200. Your papa. How many times do I have to tell ya, twit?

[jgraz]

205. You're either drunk or just really creepy

Or both. Please go bother someone else.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

327. Hey, I haven't seen THAT poster around for a long time. Had them bookmarked though.

[BooScout]

47. Did I say 'title'?

Those terms are either in titles or contained within posts. So get over your anger towards me for pointing out how offensive terms are used here and accusing me of lying.

BTW, there's a hell of a lot more nasty such terms on this forum. I personally have been asked if I took my midol or was PMSing. It's childish.

[jgraz]

73. OK, I interpreted your "front page" as just looking at titles.

I retract my "making shit up" comment. My apologies.

[rodeodance]

64. you may not know this but subthreads were removed today with the **word. Shameful behavior!

[jgraz]

75. Well, that truly sucks. People need to get a grip.

[RestoreGore]

37. It's sickening

But some have no shame.

[kid a]

50. oh...boo shit. this is DU- get over yourself - i'll show you 50 prrogressive blogs with redeeming

articles and posters and facts that support both candidates

[Bluebear]

51. YOU are not the Spirit of DU, I will tell you that. nt

[kid a]

52. =)

[Maddy McCall]

56. That doesn't even make enough sense to merit a response.

So I'll just post this:

[BooScout]

61. two thumbs up

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:rofl:

[kid a]

238. probably just a bit over your head

[rodeodance]

62. so sexist vile language is fine with you?---It is NOT fine with many of us.

[rodeodance]

58. The bitch one got names removed. (i only saw one-? others)

[theHandpuppet]

147. There was also a thread with a "The Witch is Dead" song

That was such a primo example as well.

[rodeodance]

184. guess i am glad i missed it--too much crap today!

[Bushwick Bill]

70. Hillary embodies all of those things...

I don't know what other way to say this. It's tough to put into words. It's not that I won't support a female candidate. It's that I won't support THIS candidate. Hillary is like a caricature of the power-mongering maniacal person you may hate in your workplace. Call it sexism, call it what you like. There is nothing real about her. She will kill to get to the top. I almost bought into her closing statement in the debate the other day. She pissed that away with this "shame on you" stunt. Fake, calculated, all of the above. I would say the same about a male candidate with the same characteristics, although there I would just call him a snake oil salesman or something. John Edwards is my guy, but he sort of gets ripped as a male version of Hillary: slick, phony, calculated lawyer.

[femrap]

167. Are you real or just memorex?

BO would sell his soul to The Corporation to be Prez....and that is what he has done.

You are going to be so stunned. He couldn't give a tiny turd about you. He is laughing at how easily he has manipulated you into believing 'Yes We Can.' He thinks you're a schmuck.

Deal with it, snake boy.

[dailykoff]

72. Have you seen or heard the clip?

Tell me she doesn't sound nuts.

[polmaven]

388. She sounds angry, and she has a right to be.

Now, I know...Being angry at Senator Obama? Why, she must be nuts? How do you get angry at someone who is as perfect as Barack Obama?

Well, those take offs of the Harry and Louise Republican ads are, indeed, shameful, and beneath Democrats. They are, as Senator Clinton stated, right out of a Karl Rove handbook.

The fact that Harry and Louise were some time before the idiot in chief began his run for (p)resident does NOT mean Rove was not at their core.

[1776Forever]

74. A bit touchy aren't we - oops is that sexist? Come on! It was shrill and I am a woman!

Hillary used a very high-pitched and cutting tone today in her remarks. It would be better for her to tone it down a notch. I would have said the same if Barack had used this tone!

[BooScout]

79. Being a woman does not excuse one from being sexist

:-(

[Maddy McCall]

81. Tis so.

Check the most recent post on my thread. Absolutely blind.

[BooScout]

83. I just saw

and I alerted on it. I told him or her or whatever it was goodbye. Totally disgusting.

[aquart]

379. So painfully true.

But it's always hard to meet the people so eager to vote against their own interests.

[VotesForWomen]

337. i bet you marched against the ERA, didn't you? you're criticising hill because her voice is higher t

than obama's? nope, no sexism there. you're a credit to your gender, 1776.

[DemGa]

78. This Obama element is not my party -- the attacks on Hillary will not be forgotten...nt

[suziedemocrat]

80. On my current job I am dealing with some sexist men, and it has made me feel a sisterhood w/ Hillary

I've never really liked her, but this sexism is horrible! I'm beginning to think a lot of men have "issues."

[Beacool]

84. Don't worry, payback comes in November.

I have heard plenty of women who are outraged enough to sit on their hands this election.

[redstate_democrat]

93. Sit on them.

And McCain becomes president. He will likely put at least two Justices on the Supreme Court. Let's see how that works out for women.

[flyarm]

108. count me as one!! eom

[donheld]

249. Roe V Wade means that little to you?

:shrug:

[ExtraGriz]

234. count me in

this male will sit out in november if need be....many people are fed up with this behavior, not just the women.

[donheld]

248. That is what is known as

Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. These women you speak of are willing to let the Supreme court go even further to the right. Have Roe V Wade over turned. Simply because some airheads on DU or other places, in the heat of a primary, said the wrong things.

[polmaven]

390. I was remarking this morning

that I am absolutely ASTONISHED with the number of people, supporters of BOTH candidates, who are saying they will never vote for the other, under any circumstances!

Is this country really of such little value to them?

The stakes are way too high in this election! Any of the Democrats who were in this race, past or present, are enormously superior to anything the Repubs have to offer.

How does anyone who calls himself/herself enough of a Democrat to post on a board called Democratic Underground stay home or vote third party in this vital election?

[acmavm]

252. That's true. Very true. I know of three. And that's not including myself if

that self-righteous duplicitous ass gets the nomination. I don't know exactly what I'll do. I try to tell my friends the usual shit, you know the 'but its the Supreme Court' line. Or the 'any dem is better than a repubic' crap. But then I look at Obama and Obamites and I'm firmly convinced that if this is the best that we can do, we're doomed.

[Liberalboy]

86. Absolutely

How sad that this is the way we treat each other...

[Rosemary2205]

89. Even if it gets me deleted again, I still say there's jerks aplenty in GD-P

I can't take this forum seriously anymore. - GD and others sure, but GD-P is just gotten so bizarre it's more like Chuck E Cheese than a discussion board.

Edit to add that IMHO there's jerks on both sides and thank GAWD none of them represent the vast majority of supporters of either candidate.

[dailykoff]

90. Um, you said "bitch" in your title.

Doh.

[Political Heretic]

92. Has bitch and witch really been on here?

All of it is pretty sad, but that's just disgusting.

[jgraz]

97. Yeah, I gotta back him up on the b word

Pretty sad day for DU all around.

[femrap]

172. If you supported Edwards....

I am sure that he wouldn't allow it. You need to go support someone like Ron Paul...yeah, Ron Paul is your man. I think he even has false teeth. He's like libertarian. I'll give him your email, OK?

[jgraz]

188. Seriously, I have no idea who the fuck you are or why you feel the need to pick a fight

But please do us all a favor and go outside and play on your bigwheel.

[femrap]

410. I thought you needed to hear the other side

of the story...but since your blinders are firmly in place, I guess you're happy being Willfully Ignorant.

Speaking of Ignorant..and Ignore. buh bye

[theHandpuppet]

155. Yep, they both have.

Bitch is usually accompanied by another adjective, such as "shrill bitch" (which I've seen more than once) and there was one poster here who created a thread with a song about "The Witch is dead". Then there are other descriptive gems such as "shrew".

When HRC speaks she's described as shrieking, whining, screaming... is she laughs she's "cackling". It would be impossible to provide all the examples but the pattern and frequency are just too much to take, frankly.

[question everything]

94. Or, the party that concentrates on the issue

but here we have threads about Hillary's hair, makeup, whether or not she had Botox, her breasts, thighs, sexuality..

[grassfed]

98. Shrillary is shocked!

simply SHOCKED that Obama would undermine a fellow Democrat and risk damaging the party!

Hillary Doing McCain's Dirty Work:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/22/94829/2661/924/461829

[femrap]

173. grassfed hog or cow?

Iowa?

[goldcanyonaz]

99. I don't even recognize my party any longer.

[DURHAM D]

116. Amen to that.

Its been taken over by naderites, republicans, something called progressives that sure aren't progressive and wankers.

[Major Hogwash]

102. She is shrill. I feel sorry for Bubba, it must be a living hell for him.

How's that saying go?
When the going gets tough, break down and shriek.

Just what the military needs in the middle of a war - an unbalanced screamer at the helm of our nation's government!

[femrap]

178. A boise boy, I see. Mormon?

Miss Romney? You, as others on this thread, could take advantage of the new rib removal process and live a life of bliss...the life of a dog. World Peace is achievable with this new process.

You're military? Enjoy killing old men and women and the occasional child? Does that pump you up?

Remember that Bob Dylan song..."How does it feel?" So how does it feel when someone else shoves it in your face? How does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot?

How does it feel, little man?

[Major Hogwash]

261. You're wasting your breath.

So, there's no sense in you asking me what religion I believe.

[Breeze54]

240. I keep saying your screen name using Limpballs voice and I'm laughing my ass off....

at you!! It fits! Rush's voice fits your screen name to to T!! :rofl:

[Major Hogwash]

262. Glad you like it.

I knew it would fit in on a forum designed for Democrats.

[Breeze54]

407. Oh, I think it would fit in at freeperville too!

Have you tried there?

[Major Hogwash]

415. No, I never tried it there.

Are there many Hillary supporters posting over there?

[Breeze54]

417. I wouldn't know.... I'm not an

HRC supporter and I don't go to any freep sites. Never have and never will.

[Danger Mouse]

104. If I had to characterize Hillary's behavior at this point...

it would be desparate and mean-spirited.
However, I would not use such offensive and slanderous words to describe her.
I think it's perfectly possible to crititicize a fellow dem without being nasty about it.

[Obamaman2008]

106. We do support women, just not this particular woman. I support black men just not

Alan Keyes...

We should not have to accept the bad behavior of people just because they indentify with a particular group of people that is discriminated against.

[Maddy McCall]

107. You can support whomever you wish. You shouldn't use sexism to denigrate the one you don't support.

[grantcart]

349. I agree that many times the reaction to Sen Clinton is expressed

in sexist terms; sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly, sometimes its ambigious and the degree it is considered sexist will be felt in each person's own life experiences. The more closer a person's life experience mirror's Sen. Clinton the more empathetic and perceptive they will be to the true nature of the attack.

I also note that many non-Clinton supporters join in to respond to that and other criticisms which are not sexist but just dumb (and of course the criticisms are frequently coming from idiotic Obama supporters). This is all as it should be and nobody should be expecting any gold stars for it.

What I do not understand is that there are some Clinton supporters who will infact spread the most malicious unsubstantiated rumor about Sen. Obama and it is usually picked up and repeated in several threads and virtually no Clinton supporters stand up to try and chastise their own.

Here is an example of a thread that cited an absolutely raving anti-semite racist lunatic accusing Sen. Obama of mafia connections and yet not a single Clinton supporter stepped forward to express outrage.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4736362

[Thepricebreaker]

110. I think every person can act that way from time to time. Men and Woman...

Why is it so hard to see Hillary that way? She is human...

[The Backlash Cometh]

117. I would have to agree. It's getting really ugly. I don't even recognize

DUers anymore on the Greatest Page.

[femrap]

123. Let me K and R this big time!

And women voters keep the Dems afloat. Wonder if all the newbies can make up for all of the women over 40 who have been alienated by BO...Obama, the man who says that the POOR will relate to him because he has a poor grandmother living in Africa with NO RUNNING WATER!!!

BO...SEND HER SOME $$$$$$!

If this is how he treats his grandmother, how the hell is he gonna treat the women here in the US that he doesn't even know????

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

And I understand he isn't home much to see his daughters. Hope he doesn't have his father's tendency for alcoholism.

Sounds like a great leader....:sarcasm:

[Thrill]

133. This is unfair. If Obama acted liked that today you would be

calling him unhinged, not ready for primetime, can't handle the political pressure, just another angry person.

[Bluerthanblue]

179. DING DING DING-!!! double standards that have nothing to do

with anything.

How in gods name can Hillary pretend to be outraged by Obama making "Health Care" an "issue" in this primary???
She has thrown it in Obama's face repeatedly-
And the 'shame on YOU Barak Obama'-
She blew it- royally with that kind of condescending, verbally abusive crap.


:shrug:

I'm a woman- and IMO her behaviour today was completely unacceptable- it makes the prospect of my having to cast a vote for her more difficult and distasteful than ever. But I will hope to have the self-control and presence of mind to do what needs to be done, no matter how much I may hate doing it.


peace~

[casus belli]

136. You do realize that shrill and unhinged don't really qualify as sexist? n/t

[saltpoint]

141. Agree. There's lots of boys who come unhinged. Billy Martin, former

Yankees manager, for example. Lou Pinella, former Yankees manager. (Volatile bunch, those Yankees.)

How about the giant in Jack and the Beanstalk. Likely suffering from Intermittent Explosive Disorder, and Bipolar III Disorder (Recurrent, Episodic, Repetitive, Fictional).

And also the Big Bad Wolf in the Snow White story. Now THERE was an asshole.

[casus belli]

144. You're forgetting Howard Dean....

Poor guy. They really gave him alot of grief over that speech.

[saltpoint]

146. It made me like him more. Hi, casus belli. I "heard" that speech as if

I had been a very young volunteer for his campaign, and heard in his voice the oompf and inspiration to keep my chin up and soldier on.

Agree with you completely -- the media in particular bears the blame for what was done to Dean as a result of his trying to bolster and cheer his volunteers that night in Iowa.

[casus belli]

148. I supported him as well.

It was really disheartening to watch his campaign fall apart because that whole thing was taken out of context. I almost didn't vote in the GE because of it.

[saltpoint]

153. I can understand. I could have lived very happily with Kerry, Edwards, Dean,

or even Gephardt I suppose.

Good lord, just about any of our people would have shone versus that jabbering ape in the White House.

[casus belli]

164. Let's not insult apes shall we?

;) :lol:

[saltpoint]

165. LOL!

[MichiganVote]

195. And did they use language such as "unhinged", "witch", "bitch" ?

No, they demeaned him by calling him angry.

[casus belli]

247. I specifically said "unhinged" and "shrill", don't change my statements to suit your argument.

I don't play with straw men, don't bring them with you. I specifically said in my original post that terms such as shrill and unhinged are not sexist terms. YOU added bitch and witch.

As to Howard Dean being called unhinged:

http://impactedwisdomtruth.blogspot.com/2005/12/howard-dean-unhinged.html
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=2644
http://wuzzadem.typepad.com/wuz/2005/06/howard_dean_unh.html
http://www.floppingaces.net/2006/01/08/dean-unhinged/

etc, etc....

Hell, you can even add shrill to the mix...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1570753



Google is your friend.

[lapfog_1]

174. In the baseball realm

None better than George Brett and the pine tar bat



now THAT'S unhinged.

[casus belli]

176. LOL! Classic. n/t

[saltpoint]

182. Yep. Ol' George and the bat. Should mention be made of former

Astros' infielder Doug Rader and the magic birthday cake?

Plenty of unhinge-osity to go around in the sports arena.

My favorite, truth be told, is the Cincinnati hockey game in which the huge rubber cartoon mascot character -- with the huge smiley face -- taunted the coach of the opposing team, who at last expoded, CILMBED the plexiglass barrier and started to beat the crap out of this rubber cartoon thing, except that none of the punches could get thru the rubber outer coating and the cartoon guy's face kept smiley-facing the coach the whole time he was in a senseless rage.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

334. Didn't we just see T.O. become verklempt discussing how the mean everyone was to the QB?

As if emotionalism is segregated to women only. :eyes:

[saltpoint]

383. T.O. would be an interesting interview, I think, if he had the

attention span to complete one.

[saltpoint]

138. So all Democrats are sexists?

No sale.

[ErnestoG]

161. Just the ones who don't want President Hillary, apparently.

[Fox Mulder]

139. I don't see how shrill or unhinged can be sexist...

but those other terms are. I don't know why people can keep getting away with using those terms to describe Hillary.

[ErnestoG]

175. Smoke enough skunk weed and it's amazing what you can see...

[saltpoint]

143. Al Pacino got pretty darn unhinged in several of his movies.

Ditto Jack Nicholson. It's hard to beat those two for unhinged.

Am also thinking of ... help me out here ... is it James Wood? He can blow his stack like nobody's business.

[lapfog_1]

162. And did any part of Hillary's speech remind you of Jack or Al?

at their unhinged best?

I don't think so.

Today she was Un Presidential. And that's enough.

[saltpoint]

163. I do like Jack or Al as presidents but would really be able to get

behind a Hal Holbrook candidacy.

Hal's got it together.
_ _ _ _ _

Hi, lapfog_1!

[lapfog_1]

166. Jack, at his Unhinged Presidential best!

[saltpoint]

169. There he is! Is that the "Two out of three ain't bad" moment?

[lapfog_1]

170. Yup. Aaaack Naaack! - n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

154. Are you describing yourself? If so, thank you for being honest with your foibles.

Be gone DU HillBot, Pro-DINO/DLC shill. McCain needs your support.

J

[Arkana]

168. Yet another thread

where a pissed-off Hillary supporter tries to tar anyone who doesn't support their candidate with the same stinking brush.

You reek of bitterness and sour grapes, and if you honestly believe that a couple of insensitive posts are representative of Obama supporters as a whole (and the Democratic Party) then you're pretty damn far gone.

[catagory5]

171. Must have been 10,000 here tonight...

here in Houston at the Clinton rally. She was GREAT!!!

[DefenseLawyer]

177. Let me make sure I understand

Is it okay to call her desperate and hopeless, swinging blindly at anything in her path, so long as one doesn't do so with terms that imply gender? Do you really think it is sexism at work here? Do you really think if the shoe were on the other foot, you all wouldn't be piling on the male candidate who gave a similar performance in a similar situation? To me sexism is the belief or implication that a woman acts or thinks or believes in a certain unfavorable way BECAUSE of her gender. She is acting that way because her hopes and dreams have gone down the tubes.

[femrap]

180. Didn't you read Gore's book about Logic

turned upside down??????

Damn....don't ever defend me!!! We'd lose.

[DefenseLawyer]

183. Sorry, but I'm just a caveman

You'll have to show me where my logic was "upside down". Is your position that any criticism of a female is by definition sexist?

[femrap]

185. Are your knuckles bleeding?

I have no bandages.

[DefenseLawyer]

189. Is that a yes?

That is a fairly extreme position, wouldn't you agree?

[AX10]

187. I know Obama supporters who use these terms too.

The hate for HRC is sickening.

[JTFrog]

198. I use the same descriptive term for both Hillary and McCain. Batshit crazy. Nothing sexist about it

After her latest display, there is no doubt about it.

[Roland99]

204. Hillary = DLC. 'nuff said. Doesn't matter if she's female, male, trans, etc.

She's the ESTABLISHMENT!

She's the STATUS QUO!

[bilgewaterbill]

207. Personally, I love to embrace women!

[krkaufman]

208. Don't see how "unhinged" is in any way sexist. nt

[noiretextatique]

210. here's a choice one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4726718&mesg_id=4727011

[Akimbo2112]

211. Jesus take it easy....

She's mad and she's under a lot of pressure to turn the campaign around. It doesn't make her 'unhinged'. I early voted for Hillary here in Texas but don't have too many bad things to say about Obama at all. I will say that Obama supporters have had a tendency (certainly not one and all) to get a little too excited and act rather impulsively. If he's going to be our candidate (and it sure looks from here that he will be) we all need to calm down a bit and approach winning this election from a more pragmatic, and somewhat less emotional perspective.

It's good to be enthusiastic and have hope but that can create a certain amount of intolerance for opposing points of view. A strong point of Obama's career is his willingness to listen honestly to opposing points of view. Some of his supporters would do well to emulate him in this respect.

[Political Heretic]

215. This obama supporter aplogizes deeply for the shitty behavior of a few of our people.

It's sickening, and I alert, ignore and/or call out when I see it.

:(

EDITED to add: "unhinged" alone? No, probably not sexist. But read in context of some peoples comments, yes. Also "bitch" and "witch" has no place in talking about any democratic candidate. Period. And the "wifey fit" comment? Totally out of line.

[Raejeanowl]

227. Thank You!

I think this is becoming a thing between us...people will say we're in love.


:hi:

[Political Heretic]

233. It's cool we'll have fun in the general, whatever happens. Unity!

[polmaven]

400. Thank you, Heretic.

I'm quite sure your remarks represent the majority of the Obama supporters. The problem has become that the fringe elements supporting each candidate have snowed the rest of us under.

[Raejeanowl]

219. Go Get 'Em, Boo!

This is at least the third thread I've come across on this topic, and it pains me to see how many Obama WOMEN are buying into this "Oh-no! Hysterical female with her finger on THE button!" CRAP.

For the love of Betty Friedan, this was the kind of misogynistic garbage that got slung around in the 70s! What is WRONG with them? As I said elsewhere, Clinton's forceful behavior would be identified and APPLAUDED as strength in a man!

[malletgirl02]

221. Great Post! nt.

[Qanisqineq]

226. don't forget that she is prone to mood swings

so she must be bipolar or menopausal.

[Breeze54]

236. Umm.. I think 'she's' probably past that point...

but I'm not!!!

:rofl:

[Qanisqineq]

244. I was referring to another thread

where someone first claims she's bipolar, then when people found that offensive, claimed she must be menopausal. Like that was any less offensive. His proof? Her moods "flipped like a light switch": she cried in New Hampshire, was nice at the debate, yelled on Saturday. Yeah, that's like a light switch alright.

:banghead:

[Breeze54]

250. Thanks for the clarification.

It's getting really hard to decipher who here is a Dem and who isn't.

:hug:

But You do know, that regardless... I was only kidding!! ;)

:P

[Qanisqineq]

267. I kind of figured you were

but I just wanted you to know I wasn't making this up in my head. It was what someone else was saying. :D

Oh, and I think you found that thread because I remember seeing you reply to it later on. IIRC

[Oldenuff]

228. Not so!!

I come from a long list of embracers!I like to embrace women.

Just

Not


Hillary.

[Breeze54]

235. I thought this thread had been locked and put to bed already!!

:P

*My head is beginning to ache* :rofl:

[Egalia]

245. Is this Freeperville?

"Shrill, hysterical wifey fit, unhinged, bitch, witch......"?

This is the left?

Do you hear yourself? I don't know why there are any women left on DU. I'm guessing there aren't many. Have at it boys.

[HeraldSquare212]

269. I think that's where they came from, just more messing with th Dems

[puebloknot]

246. Even the madding Dem crowd seems to find it acceptable to use such...

descriptive terms to trash a woman who is at least as honorable as her male opponent. Imagine if the same kind of post had been made using all the historical racist terms that might be thrown at Obama. Not an even playing field! We should not do either, of course.

[CaptJasHook]

251. Anyone else notice the pattern?

A big primary day coming up and suddenly the charges of sexism by the Hillary camp start punctuating the GDP.

Included in the threads are testimonials by so-called feminists who threaten to:

A) Switch their vote from Obama to Hillary just because of the so-called sexism of a few #$%holes. (That would be the join my bandwagon ploy)
B) Sit out the election and just let McCain win. (The passive-aggressive attempt to make you scared)
C) You know nothing about me and can't understand my pain because you are too young or from Kansas or have never suffered like I have suffered or my sister/cousin/best friend/mother suffered and... most importantly... you are male. (arguments that cannot be actually addressed because to do so would indicate that you are a boor or a Republican in disguise or a misogynist, etc, etc...)


I wonder if the belief is that somehow these illogical arguments will somehow sway a few more women or men to become so outraged at the supposedly widespread sexism that they will somehow magically ignore Senator Clinton's faults as a candidate. Somehow, their emotional appeal will result in a vote for Hillary out of pity/solidarity/empathy.

And, again, why does this discussion come up when the Senator is in trouble? When there is a vote coming up? Do feminists really believe that this is the way to get us to take a candidate seriously?

[BooScout]

258. Oh yea we got together at my house and planned to complain....

...about sexist language used on DU. Everyone flew over on British Air, I picked them up at Heathrow, drove back to Wales and then we all had a meeting for our battle plan. First we got a bunch of people to use sexist, offensive language (they were really Hillary plants don't ya know?), then we struck! We posted threads calling them out on their evil ways. :sarcasm:

:tinfoilhat:

[CaptJasHook]

291. Wow, all that flight time

ya'll coulda just used dem internets.

I hadn't realized your plot was so complex. I just thought you were being used.

[Robert Oak]

253. Good for you

The hatred is incredible and it's obviously misogyny. Those fliers are outrageous and she had every right to confront it, hard.

I feel like this race is say we've come along way on racism but sexism, that's still completely embraced. It's embarrassing and even worse is there are a lot of women doing it...
but then again sexism knows no gender.

[intaglio]

254. The OP described was noxious

Everyone must please alert such garbage

[Divine Discontent]

255. K&R 49 eom

[spiritual_gunfighter]

257. Isn't this

just the last gasp desperation of Hillary supporters to cry sexism when all the other excuses are used up. Hillary is running on fumes at this point and what a better way of painting Obama and his supporters as less than fair than crying sexism. This is only the sign of desperation on their part. As much as it was Hillary saying "shame on Obama for running that kind of campaign". Hillary supporters have fallen so far as to call the "Obama cult" sexist. Truly pathetic. I guess we should start calling you all racist now, right?

[BooScout]

259. No it's not......

It's women & men objecting to people using sexist language towards a fmale candidate and towards female posters. When I see the words bitch, witch, etc. I stand up and object, just as I would if I heard a racist remark.

And I in no means 'called the "Obama Cult" sexist'(your words, not mine). I objected to the use of sexist language by some members of DU and a few trolls. It's not acceptable, not now, not ever.

[sellitman]

263. Locking in

10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 .......

[OzarkDem]

264. "Iron My Shirt" Obama supporters

and their sheeplike women followers.

[HeraldSquare212]

268. There are definitely some folks in here looking to stir things up.

[Vinca]

270. The proof of how Hillary's outburst is perceived will be reflected

in the number of white males who vote for Obama.

[barb162]

310. What outburst? There was no outburst. n/t

[Baby Snooks]

272. Why is it?

Why is it that anyone who doesn't support Hillary Clinton is suddenly an enemy of women?

Maybe some of us have moved beyond the gender and taken a good look at the candidate. And simply do not like what we see.

[BooScout]

274. No one said you were.......

But the people that have used such descriptive terms here on DU (and for that matter IRL) as 'witch, bitch, she's PMSing, she forgot her midol, she's slinging her breasts around', etc need a reality check if they think people will put up with it much longer.

Now tell me nwhy you are so dismissive that these things are happening here?

[Baby Snooks]

312. Umm, well, maybe...

Maybe because as insulting as the insults may be, they have a grain of truth to them. She uses gender-based cards when it suits her, including the "woman as victim" card, and she also has a nasty temperament of late that quite honestly reminds one of a woman with PMS who indeed forgot to take her Midol and does reflect the worst, rather than the best, that a woman has to offer. She isn't exactly innocent in the matter. She's quite manipulative. And obviously the manipulation is very effective.

[okasha]

326. Hi, Pork Chop.

Somebody pass the applesauce.

[Baby Snooks]

378. Actually get some pineapple slices...

Given Bill Clinton's "he has a little sexual addiction problem and can't resist abusing women but he was abused as a child which I understand and will stand by him even though I'm really not Tammy Wynette standing by her man" behavior through the years, don't you think it's hypocritical to defend her by demeaning her detractors as "chauvinist pigs?"

She doesn't seem to mind male chauvinist pigs, does she? They are two peas in a pod. And two pigs in a pit. That they dug for themselves.

I say "chauvinist pigs" because some of the detractors are women which raises the question of how one becomes a "female chauvinist pig."

Usually by marrying a male chauvinist pig and hoping you can ride him into the White House.

Get some pineapple slices and decorate the Clintons with them because she has managed to roast herself in an open pit along with him finally. And they are both ready to be served. Luau, anyone?

[vincenzoesq]

273. On Hillary's outburst

Hil looked like an angry parent or overwrought teacher, trying to humiliate a bad little boy. If that was her plan, shame on her. If it was an impulsive reaction, I feel sorry for her. I am hardly being sexist here. I have been an angry parent, and an overwrought teacher. But I have to wonder if her words were purposely intended to "put him in his place."

[9119495]

277. Yeah, but we get that "Cult" shit all the time so it sort of evens out.

I get disgusted by the stuff you reference in your post, but if one side is going to be indelicate enough to act as though the other side are a bunch of crazy fanatics, the stuff you mention is the natural response. On an internet message board this stuff doesn't just come out of nowhere, you know.

[Bluebear]

278. 'so it sort of evens out' is not a progressive value. nt

[9119495]

431. Isn't that the point of much of prgressive politics? To even things

out?

I lived through the '04 election and saw Kerry take the high road. It did not work.

[Gloria]

283. Yeah...if the media and "liberal blogs" pointed out some of this crap

she wouldn't have to! But, since "our own" blogs and Obama fans don't want to know anything, she has to. And it's about time, too! Because you know the GOP will do it in the general, but with an even bigger voice.

And I'm not even a Hillary supporter politically...but as a female who gets mad, I'm glad she's doing it. Tina Fey has it just right! If we can't have Hillary or Edwards getting "angry" what are we left with??? A completely neuterer party...

[MethuenProgressive]

284. The Right Wing HillaryHatred adopted by the DUbamas has always been based on sexism.

It's not surprising the DUbamas 'don't get it', they are after all mere victims of propagandists of the highest order.

[Sadie5]

290. No cure for BO fever?

You say only a few trolls are causing this mess but let me tell you there are several of the usually sane posters(women) who have been stricken with BO fever and care not that this sexist treatment is doled out to Hillary. Even the editor at Buzzflash, a reputable source for news has been inflicted judging by the hateful email sent out today. The Democratic party is treating Hillary like crap while BO runs wild and Michelle O can't keep her mouth shut. The repugs are standing on the sidelines laughing at us and unless change comes about McCain will be referring to himself as commander and chief.

[MethuenProgressive]

315. I *never* said "only a few trolls are causing this mess" - the opposite is true.

According to DU polls the number is close to 200.

[Tarc]

286. Shame indeed. This place is an embarrassment at times

[cloud75]

288. Obama supporters must stop before there is too much backlash.

[rosetta627]

289. How about "unpresidential".

I think that's an apt descriptor of Hillary's behavior.

[Seabiscuit]

292. You forgot "shrew". I put the poster who used that word on "ignore".

[saltpoint]

293. Barbara Jordan, Bella Abzug, and Shirley Chisholm were Democrats.

[polmaven]

403. Your point being?

:shrug:

[saltpoint]

404. --a response to the OP's theatrical inquiry regarding whether the

Democratic party embraced women.

It seems to me it does, and has, and will.

[saltpoint]

298. There are male witches.

http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/ffwitchcraft.html

Just sayin'.

[BooScout]

331. Yes there are........and they are called warlocks

How often have you seen a male political candidate or a male poster here at DU called a warlock? hmmmmmmmm

[Umbram]

333. No they aren't.

Both men and women are equally termed "witches."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch#Wicca


Not that it's relevant in the least...

[saltpoint]

360. As Umbram has correctly pointed out, they are called 'witches,' a point

also addressed in the link I provided.

[raincity_calling]

322. You are absolutely correct

Even though I am not a Hillary fan (Edwards) I have been totally disgusted with the misogynist attacks against Clinton. I see them coming primarily from the Obama camp. It is disgusting. Quite frankly, I feel the Obama campaign and some of its supporters have used many GOP style frames, attacks, and tactics.

My greatest fear is that the GOP has succeeded once again in eliminating the strongest primary candidates and leaving the weakest to contend with the GOP in the general election.

The media has picked Obama for us. It has not challenged and attacked him like it has Clinton. And it has given him a lot of free media which it failed to give Edwards.

I suspect Obama will be slaughtered in the GE. The so called 9/11 conspirators trials will be in full force during the election - fear and terrorism will be all over the media. Who do you think the people will feel is most suited to deal with terrorism - Obama or McCain?

[rAVES]

323. No matter the names she's called, she will sleep nice in her mansion at the end of the day

and wipe her tears with her ill gotten gains... I'm soooo sorry for her :(

[MasonJar]

328. I got so sick of the intense denigration on GDP that I never enter it

anymore. I accidentally hit on this because it was on main page. I do assume that our blogs will return to normal after the primary season is over, but it is meanwhile quite disconcerting to NOT be able to look at an entry without getting angry at the bloggers. I do not care which side one favors; we have two outstanding candidates, and each should be respected for her/his own merits. The demeaning of Hillary is especially vitriolic lately. Even Bill Clinton is getting bushwacked by fellow dems. It is horrifying!!!!!! Bill and Hillary have been through hell with the PUGs, and now the dems are picking up the worst of the right-wing venom and are spewing it here. The question then becomes, will we be able to return to normal ever?

[BoneDaddy]

329. So if you are pro-women you can't ever use those words?

What if they happen to fit?

[VotesForWomen]

335. nothing will change until women refuse to put up with this crap. nt

[NM Independent]

338. Except for the witch part...they are PERFECT assesments.

I am so going to get nuked for this...oh well

Shrill - you better believe it, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that she is a woman. It is that DAMN voice. I hate that voice, and the only way I would vote to have to hear that fingernail on the chalkboard crap is if I was voting against McCain.

Hysterical wifey fit - you better believe it, and my wife actually said that before I ever read it anywhere else. She said she can think of maybe 2 times in 6 years that she has said to me, "shame on YOU." In each instance she later made ammends for being highly unreasonable. Women should never behave that way in front of anyone but family. How fucking unprofessional can you get. To attack the guy she WILL BE SUPPORTING FOR PRESIDENT in such a way is self serving to the highest degree. That self important dipshit needs to get a fucking grip. How about this novel idea. Maybe she could have used that airtime to ACTUALLY FUCKING DEFEND THE ARGUMENT. Christ...

Unhinged - you better believe it. Like I just said, she needs to get a hold of herself. She is only dialing up the vitriol and hate among her supporters. This is leading some of you fucking idiots to say that you would sit out an election because of it. Okay, to be a supposedly informed person as you are, to KNOW what the fuck is going on, and to say that you would sit out THIS ELECTION when the fate of our nation and our children is at stake. YOU FUCKING TREASONOUS SHITS. How dare you say you know a fucking thing, and then say you would SIT IT OUT. Your just as self important as Hillary, and it's disgusting. Hillary is smart enough to know that she's dialing up JUST THAT reaction. Unhinged is VERY accurate.

Bitch - Okay, I'll give you a little leeway on that one. Frankly, there are bitches and bastards. To me it's just a male female issue. If you would prefer I'll call her a bastard, but I bet that would be even more sexist. What word can I use to describe a woman that is being a bitch without calling her a bitch. I'm dead serious, because bitch is the default adjective in that instance. What else can I use?!?!?!?!?!

Witch - Nah, I doubt she practices witchcraft, and I find this one more offensive to Wickens than to women.

I'll say again though, to say you would sit it out when so much is on the line and when the stakes just might be that infamous mushroom cloud. To call yourself anything but a conservitave nutjob, and say you would sit it out. FUCKING TREASON --- YOU ASSHOLES BETTER FUCKING VOTE.

You want to know why Hillary CAN'T become your super special first woman president? She isn't good enough. Too many women realize that having a GOOD first woman president is more important that having it right this second. Cut it out with this give to me now entitlement BS and look at the big picture.

[Unbowed]

343. All but "unhinged" are sexist and very inappropriate.

However, when you go on a tirade like she did, using the word "unhinged" is a fair assessment and it has nothing to do with gender. It has been used on several occasions when John McCain has gone off on someone. As far as we know, John McCain was is not a woman.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

347. I don't get how "unhinged" is sexist, but agree with the rest including shrill.

In the wrong context calling a person shrill can become sexist. If it's used to evoke the image of a "shrill harpy," then I find it sexist and offensive. The same applies with witch, in the proper context it's harmless, in others it's sexist. Bitch is only proper if it's used to refer to a breeding female dog. If you use it to refer to a woman you're being sexist.

Having said that, unhinged it's still inflammatory and not applicable if it were used in regards to Hillary. Which is what I'm assuming. I really don't understand how it's gender specific though.

[BlooInBloo]

354. I just don't like her because (a) she's running a sleazy campaign...

... and (b) I don't think she'll do much/anything to get out of Iraq.

[yourguide]

361. I dont think "unhinged" qualifies as sexist...

heard it used for both genders, that and "unglued"

the rest tho, spot on. K & R

[ChairmanAgnostic]

362. shame on her.

not us.

I have supported, worked for and voted for many qualified candidates, women all.

to suggest that because I HATE her campaign tactics I am anti woman is deceitful, disgusting, insulting, and about as appropriate and effective as her campaign.

Shame on those here who refuse to acknowledge our right to call someone who is destroying herself, her husband's legacy, and her future (not to mention, doing great damage to the party) wrong, inappropriate, and destructive.

[BooScout]

367. no shame on you

For not acknowledging that calling someone a bitch, a witch, telling them they are PMsing or need to take midol is sexist and wrong. Shame on you for ignoring what this whole thread was about.

No one said you were anti-woman unless you used sexist language. So again shame on you for distorting the facts.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

372. Is it sexist to call Cheney a bastard? Truth, I believe is a defense

I have met and had to deal with Hillary Rodham in my past, and frankly, truthfully, she was an utter bitch. it is obvious that she has not changed one iota.

[Alcibiades]

365. Unsubstantiated flamebait

No idea where you're getting this from.

"Someone said someone said someone said something appalling!"

If you don't think this party is pro-woman, that's fine, but I think you are wrong. There are others. Let me know how that works for you.

[BooScout]

377. It's not unsubstantiated and it's not flamebait.

Sorry if the truth sucks to you. These posts have been all over this forum. Many, many, many have been deleted in the past 24 hours.

[ErnestoG]

402. Yes it is. Unmitigated horse shit.

Meant to imply that anyone who objects to the way Hillary Clinton handles things is automatically a sexist.

Shame on YOU.

[Alcibiades]

406. Truth Sucks?

I have not seen the deleted posts, on account of the fact that they are not there. I pretty much just pop onto DU once or twice a day to see what's going on. It would explain, however, why there was no link to show what the OP was talking about.

That being said, with no way to see what's been deleted, or who said what, it's unsubstantiated unless folks do some cutting and pasting. So, yeah, it is unsubstantiated. As to the question of whether it's flamebait or not, let's just let the number and tenor of the replies determine that.

"Sucks" indeed. Good on you for elevating the tone around here.

[Recursion]

366. Is "shrill" ipso facto sexist and/or misogynist?

I grew up as a white guy in a black majority town, which taught me early on that no matter what I think, I cannot hear words with a black person's ears. I have assumed that, similarly, as a man, I cannot hear sexism with a woman's ears, so I tend to defer to them. I have avoided, in the past, calling Senator Clinton "shrill" because it seems like a loaded term; is its use ipso facto sexist?

[rodeodance]

427. no, I do not think so. Need to put it in the context of its use. but here on DU , it

seems to be linked with sexist comments way too much.

[proud2BlibKansan]

380. Desperate

That's the best word I can come up with.

[Orsino]

384. This isn't the Democratic Party. n/t

[elixir]

398. Nice post. thank you BooScout.

[RBInMaine]

401. Don't take a few comments and extrapolate to everyone.

Also, not that I think Hillary is a "bitch," (frustrated, confused, and desperate yes, but not a "bitch") but that isn't any worse than calling a man a "bastard" or an "asshole" if it's deserved. If a woman does not want to be called a bitch, then just don't act like a bitch and you won't be called that. Same goes for us guys who don't want to be called assholes, pricks, and bastards. So So let's please stop playing the gender card here. It's silly.

[cooolandrew]

405. Well very true there is the welfare reform under Bill that put lots of women on the streets,so you..

got a point. I don't respect anyone who is using derogetory words towards women and I don't feelthis is what Barack'scampaign would wish for his representation. It's imprtant to see what the candidate does than what his voters do. We know one of his top adisors is a woman and would make a great VP in my opinion....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyn35HL0eng

[Muzza]

411. Indeed!

Discraceful, sexist language and the kind of misogyny that will ever more strengthen my loyalty to Hillary Clinton.

And I am a male.

SHAME ON YOU CHARLATAN DEMOCRATS WHO USE SUCH LANGUAGE!

[AGirl]

413. K and R

[rodeodance]

419. K and R

[RememberWellstone]

422. Good post.

Whats good for the goose...wait till the GE, these people would melt under the lights of scrutiny.

[redqueen]

423. Sexism is alive and well in every part of the world.

To think that Dems are somehow exempt from this global problem is just silly.

I'm not condoning it... far from it... but I'm surprised that any one is surprised by it... anywhere.

[George II]

426. Look at today's DU Homepage!!!!

There's a new discussion with hundreds of recs. entitled "We will live to regret the day we never impeached that son of a bitch."

Hmmm....interesting development, wouldn't you say?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

430. yeah, stop that. My exwife was never shrill. as for the rest . . .

if the foo shits,

[George II]

447. Believe me...based on her recent attitude and rants....

...the foo DEFINITELY shits. I'm sure she's starting to humiliate Bill.

[Dinger]

433. I Have To Wonder

why the mods let these kind of posts stay.

[CitizenRob]

438. It is possible that Hillary is all of those things you know...

Just because she has a vagina doesn't mean she's immune from being Shrill, Hystiercal, Unhinged, a Bitch, or a Witch.


FYI.

Her behavior lately suggests to me she has many of those... ahem... qualities... in her possession.

[George II]

446. I think she's just pissed off because she was born without a penis

[George II]

445. If you watched the debate tonight, you'd realize many of those terms are very appropriate!

Embracing women is one, thing, condoning Clinton's behaviour is another.

[Bluebear]

448. Add "bitter hausfrau" tonight.

The namecalling never ceases.

[saltpoint]

450. I thought your German response was pretty convincing.

That poster might not be around long enough to appreciate it, though.

The door bell's ringing, which means the pizza must be here.

[Bluebear]

451. Danke schoen lol!!

[Eurobabe]

449. It's just words

Don't get your panties in a twist.

[TheDonkey]

453. SHAME ON YOU! SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!

Buy a thesaurus so you do not offend these sensitive Hillary Supporters.... is sensitive a sexist word now too???

[SoCalDem]

454. You left out.."Mom who found porn under teen son's bed"

:rofl: