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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 07:59 PM
Original message
I think I have discovered a pattern.
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 08:03 PM by Occam Bandage
There has been a lot of vitriol here on DU. Because I'm completely biased, I'm going to blame it all on a small minority of angry Clinton supporters. However, I couldn't quite figure out why. To uncover the source of their fury, I decided to look at their complaints against Barack Obama, and see if I could detect any sort of pattern. Now, I'm not going to link to the threads in which these charges are made, because I've learned that's a one-way ticket to locksville, but let's take a quick look-see.

:bluebox: Obama isn't anti-NAFTA enough.
:bluebox: Obama is the darling of Rupert Murdoch and the right-wing media.
:bluebox: The Republicans want Obama to be nominated.
:bluebox: Obama is too DLC.
:bluebox: Obama has taken money from banking firms.
:bluebox: Obama isn't anti-war enough.
:bluebox: Obama is using nasty campaign tactics against Hillary.
:bluebox: Obama lifted a couple lines from a supporter's speech.


So, yeah. I think I might have discovered a pattern here. So, in my minds, the source of their fury is that they are simply confused as to which candidate is named "Barack Obama" and which one is named "Hillary Clinton."
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ha! Good catch!
I do believe you're onto something there. :o

:rofl:
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sharp as a razor! n/t
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kick
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. It looks as if Hillary is using Uncle Karl's campaign book.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Find your weaknesses, attribute them to your opponent.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. that's what they caught Romney on too
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. And there's their trouble in a nutshell. All their arguments can be turned back on her.
It's like Tellurian is their campaign manager or something.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. Haha!
"Tellurian is their campaign manager"

:bounce:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. I notice that "Hillary flip flops" is the headline of the very first one.
Now where I have heard that word before? Flip flop. Flip flop. I know I've heard it somewhere before....
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Just like "swiftboating," it entered the popular lexicon after '04. If this were in '97,
that video would be entitled "Hillary waffles on NAFTA."
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Isn't it interesting that there's always a coordinated campaign against a Democrat?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. That would be something of the point of this OP, yes. The attacks on Barack Obama
are all calculated attempts to obscure Hillary Clinton's weaknesses.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. why should they give Obama their money when their lobbyists are top advisers on his campaign team?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. You know, I really have to wonder when HRC's supporters will realize that
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 08:39 PM by Occam Bandage
it does not work very well to launch attacks that their candidate is more guilty of. Mark Penn--her top advisor--is not only a lobbyist, he heads an entire firm of lobbyists, and counts Blackwater (you know, the crazy Rambo fuckers in Iraq) as a client.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hillary is running an anti-lobbyist money campaign....Obama is and this makes him a hypocrite
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 08:41 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
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DUyellow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. best post of the day
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. What's Funny Is Those Charges Can Fairly Be Made Against Both Of Them
What irks this Hillary Clinton supporter is that most of us acknowledge her flaws while Obama's supporters refuse to acknowledge any of his... They are both pols...
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RuleOfNah Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Good point.
While reading the list of headlines I thought the left were going to be blamed.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. kick and rec and lol....
They do seem to sling the wrong criticisms the wrong way.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. I think that pattern is in your imagination
I don't think Hillary supporters are dependent on proving Obama is bad.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. "small minority of"
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. Astute!
not surprising, but astute!
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
22. K & R
:thumbsup:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. LOL!
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
24. Sharp as a bowl of jello.
The point is that his "movement" is a PR Sham.

You are getting an inexperienced, untested version of Hillary Clinton who won't stand up to the Republicans, and who is willing to sacrifice core Democratic values.
And it is *No* Mystery, and you don't need to "search for a pattern".
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. "who is willing to sacrifice core Democratic values."
Edited on Mon Feb-25-08 01:43 AM by Occam Bandage
We tried that game once under the Clintons. Forgive us if we'd rather not give it a second go. Too bad the editing period's expired, I'd add that up there.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Obama will make the Clintons look like far left wing nutcases.... he will be at parity
or to the right of GWB on many issues.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Still engaging in the same game.
Edited on Mon Feb-25-08 01:53 AM by Occam Bandage
Obama presents a justifiable (not claiming true/untrue here) attack of Clinton. The best camp Clinton can do is, without justification, level the same attack at Obama. That really isn't convincing in an election.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Wow u sound like one of them librul intelexuls. I cant vote for sumeone lik that!!!1!!!1!1!1
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I changed it for you. No big words.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
25. How many minds do you have?
Just curious.

;)
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Damn, you beat me to it.
:spray:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. I saw it, and considered editing. Then I thought, nah, nobody is likely to notice that...
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. Ha! This is DU
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
26. Pattern explained: many people have many problems with him for many reasons
Got it?

If he DOES get the nomination or get the votes to have it in the bag and be nominee-apparent, hopefully the more zealous of his supporters will listen to ALL the criticism and act accordingly. There's an EXTREMELY dangerous tendency of late to shout down all dissent and there's an even more dangerous one of reveling in flying in the face of this criticism. He will still have to stand for an election, and those who're on a religious crusade have probably converted all the true believer types out there; the rest will have to be won over with reason, policy and sense.

There's a dangerous irrationality in this exuberance that completely dismisses all of this. Look at your list: he's pissed off many people on many different issues. That's not a "small" thing. It's also not proof of some uniformity of calumny among the non-believers; it's proof of a whole passel of problems that need to be addressed. If you think his campaign has been high-tone and consistently positive, you're living in fantasy land.

Yes, there's a pattern: faddish enthusiasm has stripped many of any perspective.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Didn't look at the links, did you. nt
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. LOL N/T
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Try clicking one or two of the links. This is one of the reasons why Clinton is losing.
Edited on Mon Feb-25-08 01:46 AM by Occam Bandage
Every attack she makes on Obama can be fairly turned on her; she has yet to draw any good, favorable distinctions between them. Even her best argument--experience--is shoddy; she has only a few more years in the Senate than he does, and her time as First-Lady-cum-legislator is marked predominantly by a failed health-care reform plan.

She's resorted to tu quoque, which pleases the base but hardly inspires the undecideds.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. I think you are on to something here.
When a typical response is "but Obama does it too!"

Or "Obama supports the ideas of the DLC!"

Or "Hillary voted against it too!"

Or "They both sponsored legislation against it that went nowhere!"

Then you have to wonder...
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
39. Nice. Deserves another kick.
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