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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:18 PM Original message |
Health care: 22 million reasons to support Hillary |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:20 PM Response to Original message |
1. So, if 22 million people don't want his plan, how will you force them to join hers? |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:33 PM Original message |
I don't know |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:55 PM Response to Original message |
12. Nice, so you are gonna tax people so you can force other people to buy something they don't want |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:12 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. Every one wants health insurance. |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:24 PM Response to Reply #14 |
18. Well, since everyone wants health insurance, and Obama lowers cost at least $300 more than Clinton |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:57 PM Response to Reply #18 |
28. Universal health care is the big thing |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 03:31 AM Response to Reply #28 |
85. Clintons claims to lower cost 2200 and Obama 2500 and neither dispute those numbers |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:17 PM Response to Reply #85 |
90. I assume those numbers are average reductions in yearly health insurance costs? |
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enid602 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:36 PM Response to Reply #14 |
20. health care |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:43 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Then once again, why do we need a mandate? |
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KhaOZ (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:47 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. You're the man. Just thought i'd let you know. |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:49 PM Response to Reply #24 |
25. The MAN.. What Kind Of Sexist Crap Is That? Couldn't a woman ... |
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enid602 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:57 PM Response to Reply #21 |
29. health care |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:32 AM Response to Reply #29 |
38. That did not answer the question, why do we need a mandate if everyone wants health care. |
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rodeodance (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:18 AM Response to Reply #38 |
55. i suppose there are some who do not want to purchase a plan--Who ends |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 05:33 PM Response to Reply #55 |
78. It will be easier to deal with them once they are in the system, fine them for back premiums.... |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:23 PM Response to Reply #78 |
94. Limiting freedoms? What kind of right wing bullshit is that? |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 06:11 AM Response to Reply #21 |
41. Because it gives 22 million more people health insurance |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 05:26 PM Response to Reply #41 |
77. I do not equate "Gives" and "Forces upon" it forces health insurance upon 22 mil. people |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 03:26 AM Response to Reply #77 |
83. Obama has made progressives sound like Repubs |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 03:27 AM Response to Reply #83 |
84. Poor people already get Medicaid or Medicare, please study up on this a little |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 05:48 AM Response to Reply #84 |
87. Ok, what I said applies to |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:22 PM Response to Reply #84 |
93. And both candidate envision a massive expasion of both. |
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rodeodance (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:35 AM Response to Reply #21 |
59. in and attempt to provide health care for ALL. |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 03:33 AM Response to Reply #59 |
86. But the premise is that everyone wants it, so why do we need to mandate what everyone wants? |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:39 PM Response to Reply #86 |
98. So why does Obama mandate health coverage for children? |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:20 PM Response to Reply #21 |
92. Why does Obama need a mandate for children? |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:19 PM Response to Reply #12 |
91. How do you think Obama is gonna subsidize his healthcare? |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:33 PM Response to Reply #1 |
7. I don't know |
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Exilednight (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:29 PM Response to Reply #7 |
70. Here's my problem with both plans, and why I support Obama's |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 05:57 PM Response to Reply #70 |
104. Contrary to Obama, Hillary has specified that |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 11:04 PM Response to Reply #1 |
34. Three times is a charm |
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yourguide (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:22 PM Response to Original message |
2. Big NY times story on whats going on with HRC camp |
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dchill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:24 PM Response to Original message |
3. "Krugman thinks 22 million more people will be insured... |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:54 PM Response to Reply #3 |
11. But Congress is Democratic now, isn't it? |
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DadOf2LittleAngels (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:00 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. Congress was democratic in 1993 as well.. |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:15 PM Response to Reply #13 |
15. Ok, but to get universal health insurance, you |
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DadOf2LittleAngels (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:22 AM Response to Reply #15 |
35. Nope sorry to say its not... |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 06:23 AM Response to Reply #35 |
43. Perhaps so, and perhaps not. |
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Yurovsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 08:35 PM Response to Reply #43 |
80. Well, universal care is certainly the answer ... |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 01:12 PM Response to Reply #80 |
88. Hillary's plan is universal care, but not single-payer. Here's why: |
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Yurovsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 09:28 PM Response to Reply #88 |
105. Something better than nothing no doubt ... |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-26-08 12:44 AM Response to Reply #105 |
106. Health care is based on the principle that |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:25 PM Response to Original message |
4. Krugman's becoming a broken record. |
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donheld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 06:14 AM Response to Reply #4 |
42. A warped broken record at that. |
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Sanctified (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:26 PM Response to Original message |
5. Forcing everyone to buy their own healthcare is not universal healthcare. |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:50 PM Response to Reply #5 |
9. People can also buy goverment insurance - |
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juno jones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:18 PM Response to Reply #9 |
17. But will every doctor/hospital be mandated to accept that govt insurance |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:45 PM Response to Reply #17 |
22. I don't know so much about this - but I'm sure |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:45 PM Response to Reply #17 |
23. I don't know so much about this - but I'm sure |
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juno jones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:51 PM Response to Reply #23 |
27. delete n/t |
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RC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:53 PM Response to Reply #5 |
10. Bingo! That is the major problem with health care in this country. |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 06:28 AM Response to Reply #10 |
45. It's politically impossible to get single payer care just like that. |
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Sanctified (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 05:14 PM Response to Reply #45 |
76. It won't evolve into single payer simply because it gives too much power to the Insurance Industry, |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 02:04 PM Response to Reply #76 |
89. Of course the insurance industry will fight Hillary's plan |
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Yurovsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 09:58 AM Response to Reply #5 |
51. Ain't that the truth ... |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 11:17 AM Response to Reply #51 |
62. Mandates isn't more insane than taxes |
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Sanctified (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 05:10 PM Response to Reply #62 |
75. I think the Government forcing people to give money to Private Corporations |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 11:39 PM Response to Reply #75 |
82. Good question, |
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Rosemary2205 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:30 PM Response to Original message |
6. What, specificially, are they getting for $2700 (or $4400) |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 08:40 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. I'm not sure, but think those numbers are costs for the government |
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Rosemary2205 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:16 PM Response to Reply #8 |
16. Well, I have to tell you |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:26 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. Contrary to Obama, Hillary has specified that |
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Rosemary2205 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 09:51 PM Response to Reply #19 |
26. No, insurance does not mean access to medical care. |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:34 PM Response to Reply #26 |
81. Mandates don't solve all problems, of course |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 10:25 PM Response to Reply #19 |
30. And WHAT percentage of MY income will Hillary require me to pay |
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rodeodance (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:16 AM Response to Reply #30 |
54. Do you know what % Obama's plan would require? |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 07:29 PM Response to Reply #54 |
79. Yes....0%. |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:25 PM Response to Reply #79 |
95. Neither does Hillary unless you consider MediCare as for profit insurance. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 11:03 PM Response to Reply #19 |
33. Well, it might look that way |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-26-08 11:20 AM Response to Reply #33 |
107. That is not correct: |
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Johnny__Motown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:40 AM Response to Reply #19 |
39. Well that certainly has no flaw in it, People NEVER Work Under The Table Do They? |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-26-08 02:40 PM Response to Reply #39 |
108. I don't know what Hillary's enforcement mechanism will be |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 10:58 PM Response to Reply #8 |
32. So you don't know what you get out of it, but you'll vote for it anyway |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:16 PM Response to Reply #32 |
67. Sorry, I forgot to check what Krugman actually wrote |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-23-08 10:56 PM Response to Original message |
31. Who says so? Jonathan Gruber. Who is Jonathan Gruber? |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:24 AM Response to Reply #31 |
56. Krugman on Massachusetts |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:23 AM Response to Original message |
36. Thats what the fine will be? |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:27 AM Response to Original message |
37. INSURANCE Care - how Clinton's plan would destroy health care. |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-26-08 03:24 PM Response to Reply #37 |
109. In Hillary's plan, people can also buy government insurance |
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Hidden Stillness (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:53 AM Response to Original message |
40. Neither One of Their Plans Solves Anything |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 09:02 AM Response to Reply #40 |
47. Kucinich's plan is probably good but politically impossible |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 06:28 AM Response to Original message |
44. Wow, that estimated figure is going up daily |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 08:56 AM Response to Reply #44 |
46. These numbers are uncertain, of course |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 11:15 AM Response to Reply #46 |
61. Or maybe not, as you said the numbers are uncertain |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 03:08 PM Response to Reply #61 |
74. How do you know so much about what can be forecasted? |
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Vinca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 09:05 AM Response to Original message |
48. If Hillary wants to make a last ditch effort to get the nomination, |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 09:14 AM Response to Reply #48 |
49. Check out what Krugman says about this |
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Vinca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 09:55 AM Response to Reply #49 |
50. I've read this and I think Krugman is seeing things. |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:12 AM Response to Reply #50 |
53. 22 million people is not "minute"! |
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Vinca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:27 AM Response to Reply #53 |
57. I thought it was 15 million. Gets bigger by the day. |
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rodeodance (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:33 AM Response to Reply #57 |
58. of course it is unknown-but looking brighter with probable more dems in congres and the WH. |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:40 AM Response to Reply #57 |
60. Krugman about Congress |
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samer (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:41 PM Response to Reply #48 |
99. If she did this i would reconsider as well, |
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OzarkDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:07 AM Response to Original message |
52. K & R |
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ElsewheresDaughter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
63. they threw poor Krugman under the Rethuglican Obama Bus last month along with RFK Jr and Edwards |
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ORDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 11:19 AM Response to Original message |
64. Krugman's been on an anti-Obama jihad for some time, his view |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:01 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. What's Hillary's "garnish wages" comment? (nt) |
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Cameron27 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 11:20 AM Response to Original message |
65. K&R |
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R_M (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:21 PM Response to Original message |
68. It is a good start. |
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saltpoint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:25 PM Response to Original message |
69. No current health plan proposal will emerge without significant changes |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:43 PM Response to Reply #69 |
71. Krugman about the Congress |
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saltpoint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:47 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. I understand your points but Committee work will likely retain Democratic |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:52 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. Ok, but of course it's important what the President wants |
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samer (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:30 PM Response to Original message |
96. We should not trust Hillarys health care plan... |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:38 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Obama took in $500,000 from the insurance industry |
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samer (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:53 PM Response to Reply #97 |
101. Obama's support |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 05:01 PM Response to Reply #101 |
103. You do realize you are relying on the same source for Hillary's lobbyist numbers don't you? |
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johan helge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:41 PM Response to Reply #96 |
100. I didn't know this about the lobbyists, good point, but regardless: |
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ElsewheresDaughter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-25-08 04:55 PM Response to Reply #100 |
102. Obama's Top Adviser is a Lobbyist for BIG PHARMA and the Insurance industry |
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