Did Kerry's healthcare plan in 2004 include mandates?

[democrattotheend]

I don't remember hearing anything about them back then. I don't think Dean's plan had them either, though I am not positive. The first I heard about mandates being proposed was Mitt Romney's plan in Massachusetts.

I do remember that several years ago, when John Breaux was in the Senate, he proposed a healthcare plan that involved mandates, and a lot of people here attacked it as a gift to the insurance industry. Back then, mandates seemed like a right wing solution.

When did mandates become such a progressive idea? They seem to me like a cop-out...mandating that people purchase insurance is not the same thing as providing it. I understand the arguments for mandates, but I think the debate about them has been somewhat misleading.

[ingac70]

1. Mandates became "progressive"...

when Hillary proposed it.

And now mandated health insurance has been twisted into universal health care by her followers.

[Breeze54]

2. Kerry had a health plan?

Quite frankly, living in MASS where they do have a mandatory GROUP health plan, there is a cut off at a certain income where people do not have to pay or pay much but it is required, just like car insurance so that everyone is in it together and that is supposed to keep the costs down. last I heard it was way over budget. It was a rethugs plan... Romney. I think the theory is that a group plan is cheaper for all in the long run and saves money. If you can't afford it, then you don't pay anything.

[sandnsea]

6. It's pretty much HIllary's, without the mandate n/t

[Breeze54]

9. What is?

:shrug:

She was the only one talking about universal health care.... back when her husband was president.

And she's the only one who took all the heat from the repukes!

[sandnsea]

Kerry wrote SCHIP

She fucked up health care, he fixed it, she threw a fit and then finally came around after Kennedy took it over.

Kerry came up with the idea of opening federal insurance to everybody, and a variety of other policies including income caps and tax credits. She copied it. And then mandated it.

Obama went one better and included insurance regulations and actual premium subsidies.

That's what happened.

[beachmom]

Did you see that Teddy is not putting up with her taking credit for s-chip anymore?

That annoys me beyond belief the way she tries to take credit for HIS BABY.

[democrattotheend]

39. I hope Teddy speaks out to counter her current attack

Nobody has more credibility among most liberals on healthcare than Ted Kennedy, and he can call out Clinton's accusation that Obama is trying to fight against universal healthcare.

[Breeze54]

61. HRC's Health Care Plan was sabotaged by the repukes!!

You have a very selective memory.

[kerrygoddess]

22. Yes it is - but Kerry revised it in '06 and called for mandates.

Clinton's plan is very similar to Kerry's '04 plan and his revised '06 plan called for mandates. I just posted this below:

On July 31, 2006 John Kerry gave a speech at Faneuil Hall in Boston in which he called for mandates - universal health care. The Kerry Health Care Plan was a revision of his '04 plan with the much needed mandates included. Here's an excerpt from his speech:

Today I will set out a health care plan that I believe must be a centerpiece of our purpose and promise to the nation. Here are the goals and principles of this plan:

ONE – Every American, and I mean everybody, must have health coverage by 2012.

TWO – To get there, we start with kids first. They’re born, they’re enrolled in health care. They go to child care, they’re enrolled. They go to school, they’re enrolled. No “ifs,” “ands,” or “buts,” every child gets health care – automatically, immediately, every child in America gets health care now.

THIRD – We must and will control the skyrocketing premiums, co-pays, and exclusions that make a mockery of the insurance hard-working families pay for month after month. No longer will families be pushed into bankruptcy by medical bills they can’t pay —no longer will sons and daughters have to choose between paying for a doctor’s bill for one child or college tuition for another – it is time to finally guarantee that as health care costs are held down, Americans get the health care they need and deserve.

FOURTH - and finally, instead of telling tens of millions to wait until they are sick enough to go to an emergency room, we must and will assure high quality and preventive care for every American.


http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3759

And there is a fact sheet from his press office here: http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?page_id=3760

[sandnsea]

33. AFTER everything has been implemented

and we know the costs and problems involved. Same as John Edwards, actually. He does not base his plan on the idea that we have to mandate people in order to bring costs down. He puts everything else into place first, so no one ends up hurt by unintended consequences. Which is exactly Barack Obama's position. If we have to mandate later, we can talk about that. But first we need to get the subsidies to help people buy insurance, and policies to reduce costs.

[kerrygoddess]

47. Well yes he does

If you read the speech he talks about that.

[sandnsea]

51. Well, no, it's six years

From 2006 to 2012 would give a health initiative 6 years to work out the details. He had no intention of basing the success of his plan on mandates, the way Hillary has. I'm sure he knew it would never get through Congress to begin with. Two different approaches.

[kerrygoddess]

62. "If anyone is left uninsured by the 2012 deadline Kerry would require Congress to reexamine"

"If anyone is left uninsured by the 2012 deadline, Kerry would require Congress to reexamine the program and figure out how to reach them. The coverage guarantee would come through some form of a government mandate, Kerry said, though he added that it's too soon to say how that would happen." - http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/08/01/kerry_proposal_calls_for_insurance_for_all_by_2012/

[sandnsea]

66. "If anyone is left uninsured" "figure out how to reach them"

That's completely different than going in with a mandate at the beginning the way Hillary is. JK leaves the door open to the possibility that we can create such a good program that we don't need mandates at all.

[kerrygoddess]

71. So does she

Good lord take off your Hillary hater blinders and read her plan. She wants to make it possible for everyone to have insurance and a mandate is the best way. It takes time to put that into motion - she gets it won't happen swiftly - as Kerry did. Universal healthcare means covering everyone - a mandate - that is what Kerry called for in that speech - universal healthcare.

[sandnsea]

79. IF, he leaves room open for no mandates at all

She doesn't. If her plan isn't based on mandates, she needs to stop saying it is. Hillary is the one who says she has to mandate in order for her plan to work. Two different approaches. His plan is dependent on helping people buy insurance and reducing costs - hers is depending on forcing people to buy insurance, costs be damned.

[kerrygoddess]

81. That is bull shit. You need to read her plan.

You are showing stubborn ignorance here.

Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care. - http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/

Senator Clinton laid out a major plank in her framework for providing affordable, quality health coverage for all Americans: her 7-step strategy for lowering spiraling costs. The rising cost of health care is threatening working families, American businesses, and the nation’s economic competitiveness. Premiums have almost doubled since 2000 - up 87 percent - four times higher than wages. And if left unattended, health care spending will double to $4 trillion per year over the next 10 years. Senator Clinton stressed that the necessary commitment to cover all Americans will require the reform of our often irrational, inefficient and wasteful policies.

Senator Clinton proposed a series of initiatives that will cut the spiraling rate of growth by one-third over time. Her health care modernization strategy achieves this by targeting the drivers of health care costs, including (1) our back-ended coverage of health care that gives short-shift to prevention, (2) the nation’s reliance on an antiquated, wasteful, costly and even dangerous paper-based medical records system, (3) unmanaged chronic illnesses such as diabetes and heart disease which account for over 75 percent of health care spending, (4) the over-utilization of medical interventions that provide little added value and the under-utilization of those that do, (5) and excessive insurance, drug, and malpractice costs.

Senator Clinton’s proposals would reduce costs and improve quality in the health care system. Taken together they would lower national health spending by at least $120 billion dollars a year. If businesses received a proportionate reduction in their health benefits spending, they would achieve at least $25 billion in savings in 2004 dollars. Families would substantially benefit as well. In fact, Business Roundtable has estimated $2,200 in national health savings for the typical family. And these savings would be reinvested in the system to help cover the 45 million uninsured.

To achieve this goal, Senator Clinton’s strategy would:

A Groundbreaking National Prevention Initiative to Reduce the Incidence of Such Diseases as Diabetes and Cancer that Impose Huge Human and Financial Costs
Institute a New "Paperless" Health Information Technology System
Transform Care of Today’s Chronically Ill Population to Improve Outcomes and Decrease Costs
Ending Insurance Discrimination to Help Reduce Administrative Costs
Create an Independent "Best Practices" Institute to Empower Consumers, Providers and Health Plans to Make the Right Care Choices
Implement Smart Purchasing Initiatives to Constrain Excess Prescription Drug and Managed Care Expenditures
Put in Place Common-Sense Medical Malpractice

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcare/

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthquality/

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=4592

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=2862

[sandnsea]

83. Listen. I know what a mandate is and I know what the word "IF" means

John Kerry is not basing his plan on a mandate. You can call me names for the next 10 days, until your girl has to drop out, but that's not going to change who is really being ignorant here.

[kerrygoddess]

84. It's #1 on his list

"ONE – Every American, and I mean everybody, must have health coverage by 2012." - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3759

By any other name a mandate.

[kerrygoddess]

67. It's not 2 different approaches

Clinton's plan is so similar to JK's '06 plan. I had that confirmed months ago that hers was closer to Kerry's than Obama's or Edwards. That was before Kerry endorsed Obama.

[Bluerthanblue]

8. Yes, he said that he wanted everyone to have the same program

that he and other legislators had.

(I found that a hopeful concept)

You would know better living in Mass. but I understand the penalties for NOT purchasing required insurance are beginning to be levied- ?

peace~

[Breeze54]

14. Maybe but HRC said it first.

He said it to support her and get elected.

[Bluerthanblue]

37. no- John Kerry said this in his platform for 2004-

did you think I meant Obama?

Sorry- I didn't say it clearly.

peace~

[Breeze54]

49. 1993 Clinton health care plan

She was working on it in 1993 !!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Clinton_health_care_plan

The Clinton health care plan, sometimes called "Hillarycare" by opponents,<1><2><3> was a 1993 healthcare reform package proposed by the administration of Bill Clinton, then President of the United States, and created and chaired by the First Lady of the United States, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

[Orangepeel]

12. Kerry's plan, IIRC, was to let everyone join the federal employee pool

Federal employees can choose among several insurance providers. I remember Kerry saying that he had Blue Cross.

I don't remember, but I assume, there were subsidies for lower income people. It did not include mandates.

[democrattotheend]

15. Clinton and Obama both have similar proposals

To allow people to buy into the federal system. Seems like a good idea, although it's still private health insurance and I'd prefer some form of a single-payer system.

[Breeze54]

21. Not to mention that BX/BS are huge liars and rip offs!

:grr:

[ProSense]

42. Key difference

the catastrophic care measure picked up from Kerry's plan

[democrattotheend]

44. Yeah, I liked Kerry's idea about that

To have the government cover the most expensive cases in order to bring down insurance premiums for everyone. I believe Obama has proposed something similar.

I was a Dean supporter so I don't remember all the details of Kerry's healthcare plan (or Dean's, even) but I remember liking that element of Kerry's plan.

[Breeze54]

18. Like that was going to happen realistically?

It is mandated in the idea that if all are in the costs are lower!!!

That actually does make sense.

Tax breaks, subsidies and not paying anything are in the HRC plans.

[Orangepeel]

27. I don't understand what you are saying.

Kerry's 2004 plan did not have mandates.

However, I would imagine that almost all federal employees have health insurance because it is a damn good deal. Because the pool is so large, Blue Cross has no pre-existing condition restrictions and everyone pays the same amount for premiums (with different amounts for individuals, couples and families). The premiums are cheap for the individual because the government, as the employer, pays most of the premium. I don't remember if or how Kerry dealt with that.

[Breeze54]

46. BX/BS is expensive

My Dad had BX/BS, as a Federal employee and we all (7 kids & my Mom) were covered until we were 21 years old but that was way back when....

Later on in years, when my mother had Alzheimer's Disease? They wouldn't pay for in-home health care/nurses aides and I know because I wrote out the checks for him to sign and he paid out of his own money in excess of $70,000.00 ++++ for private NA care for her and that was paid for by the sale of two family inherited houses. :(

I seriously doubt the whole nation would have been included in any Federal BX/BS plan at all.

It was a pipe dream. Words to get elected and unrealistic, imho.

[Bluerthanblue]

3. no I don't believe they did- and you bring up an interesting question-

I remember in one of the early debates that Hillary painted Obama as a 'flip-floper' saying that 'originally he was for single payer health care before he was against it' (not verbatum)-
Obama replied that he DID prefer a single-payer universal system - but that he didn't think it was possible yet, and given the fact that many adults had health care already made mandating insurance difficult.

I don't have the actual quotes.

peace~

[Breeze54]

7. WTF?

"Obama replied that he DID prefer a single-payer universal system - but that he didn't think it was possible yet, and given the fact that many adults had health care already made mandating insurance difficult."

:wtf:

That's the WHOLE reason to have single payer (Kucinich health plan) in the first place!!

Many people DO NOT HAVE HEALTH CARE!!!!

[Orangepeel]

16. He said that if we were starting from scratch, it would be better to have single payer

but that we have a system where many people have insurance through their jobs. To get anything passed, the plan would have to work with that.

[democrattotheend]

23. I hate to say it, but he's right

In theory, I believe in single payer. But I have really good insurance through my employer that I'd hate to give up. I think a lot of people feel the same way, and that's why single-payer would be such an uphill climb to pass. Not to mention the number of jobs that would be lost in the conversion to a single payer system. It's the best system in theory, but I am not sure it's possible without a huge disruption to the economy.

[Breeze54]

32. But we DON'T have a system where many people have insurance through their jobs!!

:grr:

Is he daft?

YouTube - Kucinich health care plan...

Dennis Kucinich smacks Democratic front-runners

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTgPFJnV76c

Universal Health Care

http://www.kucinich.us/UniversalHealthCare.shtml

"Health care is an essential safeguard of human life and dignity and there is an obligation
for society to ensure that every person be able to realize this right."

Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, Chicago Archdiocese

Our health care system is broken, and http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:H.R.676:@@@L&summ2=m&">HR 676, the Conyers-Kucinich bill, is the only comprehensive solution to the problem. It is also the system endorsed by more than 14,000 physicians from Physicians for a National Health Program. Nearly 46 million Americans have no health care and over 40 million more have only minimal coverage. In 2005 some 41% of moderate and middle income Americans went without health care for part of the year. Even more shocking is that 53% of those earning less than $20,000 went without insurance for all of 2005. In fact, the National Academy of Science's Institute of Medicine estimates that 18,000 Americans die each year because they have no health insurance.

The American health system is quite sick. Pulitzer Prize journalists Donald Barlett and James Steele, in their stunning analysis of the health care industry, Critical Condition (2006 Broadway Books), insist that "... U.S. health care is second-rate at the start of the twenty-first century and destined to get a lot worse and much more expensive." Considering the following facts from Tom Daschle's article for the Center for American Progress: "Paying More but Getting Less: Myths and the Global Case for U.S. Health Reform":


1. Americans are The Healthiest People in the World.
FACT: Citizens of 34 nations live longer than Americans.

2. The U.S. is the Best Place to Get Sick.
FACT: The World Health Organization ranked the U.S. 37th in the world for health system performance. Countries like Australia and the United Kingdom rank above the U.S. Americans have lower odds of surviving colorectal cancer and childhood leukemia than Canadians who do have national health care. Americans also experience greater problems in coordination of care than the previously mentioned countries and New Zealand.

3. Covering All Americans Will Lead to Rationing.
FACT: Same-day access to primary-care physicians in the U.S. (33%) is far less available than in the United Kingdom (41%), Australia (54%) and New Zealand (60%). Per capita spending for health care averaged $2,696 in countries without waiting lists and $5,267 in the U.S.

4. Global Competitiveness is Hampered in Comprehensive System.
FACT: "Health care costs are not just a burden and barrier to care for individuals; they are taking a heavy toll on American businesses." The strain on employers in 2005 was staggering. "The average total premiums for an employer-based family plan was $9,979 in 2005 ..." Most of our competitors in the world markets finance their systems outside corporate taxes and employer mandates. Without Medicare for Everyone, the U.S. will continue to hemorrhage jobs.

5. We Cannot Afford to Cover All Americans.
FACT: We already spend enough to have universal health care. "The truth is, we cannot afford to not reform the health system." We spend about 50% more than the next most expensive nation and nearly twice per person what the Canadians do. On May 1, 2006 Paul Krugman explained in Death by Insurance how incredibly wasteful the current system is. The doctor he referenced has two full-time staff members for billing, and two secretaries spend half their time collecting insurance information on the 301 different private plans they deal with. This type of waste is easily 20%. Also consider that 98% of Medicare funds are spent on medical care.

IMPORTANT: The hackneyed -- and inaccurate -- mantra of Republicans when universal health care is introduced is to blame trial lawyers and malpractice cases for our lack of national health care. In fact, 0.46% of our total health spending is spent on awards, legal costs, and underwriting costs -- about the same as Canada and the United Kingdom and about the same amount we spend on dog and cat food each year. While "defensive medicine" may drive up the price, it hardly accounts for our stunning health care costs. The belief that citizens should give up their right to fair legal redress for legally proven medical mistakes in exchange for lower health care costs rings as true as the promise that if we must give up our civil rights to be safe from terrorists.

Even those with coverage too often pay exorbitant rates. The current profit-driven system, dominated by private insurance firms and their bureaucracies, has failed.

We must establish streamlined national health insurance, "Enhanced Medicare for Everyone." It would be publicly financed health care, privately delivered, and will put patients and doctors back in control of the system. Coverage will be more complete than private insurance plans; encourage prevention; and include prescription drugs, dental care, mental health care, and alternative and complementary medicine.

Perhaps the clearest and most eloquent explanation of the Conyers-Kucinich National Health Insurance Bill was given on February 4, 2003, in Washington, D.C. by Dr. Marcia Angell in introducing H. R. 676. Backed by over 14,000 doctors, this is the future of American medicine.

"We are here today to introduce a national health insurance program. Such a program is no longer optional; it's necessary.

"Americans have the most expensive health care system in the world. We spend about twice as much per person as other developed nations, and that gap is growing. That's not because we are sicker or more demanding (Canadians, for example, see their doctors more often and spend more time in the hospital). And it's not because we get better results. By the usual measures of health (life expectancy, infant mortality, immunization rates), we do worse than most other developed countries. Furthermore, we are the only developed nation that does not provide comprehensive health care to all its citizens. Some 42 million Americans are uninsured (nearly 46 million today -- updated figure) -- disproportionately the sick, the poor, and minorities -- and most of the rest of us are underinsured. In sum, our health care system is outrageously expensive, yet inadequate. Why? The only plausible explanation is that there's something about our system -- about the way we finance and deliver health care -- that's enormously inefficient. The failures of the system were partly masked during the economic boom of the 1990's, but now they stand starkly exposed. There is no question that with the deepening recession and rising unemployment, in the words of John Breaux, 'The system is collapsing around us.'

"The underlying problem is that we treat health care like a market commodity instead of a social service. Health care is targeted not to medical need, but to the ability to pay. Markets are good for many things, but they are not a good way to distribute health care. To understand what's happening, let's look at how the health care market works ... "

"Mainstream" writers like Ph. D. economist and columnist for the New York Times Paul Krugman now agree with those doctors and Dennis that "covering everyone under Medicare would actually be significantly cheaper than our current system." They all recognize that we already spend enough to provide national health care to all but lack the political courage to make the tough decisions that doctors, nurses and medical professionals must run our health care system, - not "for profit" insurance companies who make money by denying health care.

It is time to recognize that all the civilized countries have a solution that we must adapt to this country. American businesses can no longer be competitive shouldering the entire cost of health care. Health care is a right that all Americans deserve.

[Orangepeel]

41. 59.6%. I'd call that "many"

No one should be without health care. But if more than 1/2 the people have health insurance through their jobs, it is hard to scrap a system where people get health insurance through their jobs. I'm not arguing that it's right. Just that it is.

"The percentage of people (workers and dependents) with employment-based health insurance has dropped from 70 percent in 1987 to 59.5 percent in 2005. This is the lowest level of employment-based insurance coverage in more than a decade (4, 5)."

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

[Breeze54]

52. But that's a facade! - It's costly and has crap or barely any coverage!

:banghead:

That's % you site means half the country doesn't have any!!

[Bluerthanblue]

34. thank you - you said it in a few words- much better

than I tried to with dozens-:hi:

He is right about this- I believe.

peace~

[Bluerthanblue]

31. weeelllll - you are preaching to

the choir here Breeze-

I have no insurance, and cannot get any- haven't had any for years now.

I didn't say it very well- and don't have the actual quotes, but the gist of Obama's statement was that there are many people who get their insurance through their employers- If you mandate insurance, and some employers don't offer coverage, or if employers decide not to cover their employees anymore- mandating coverage is detremental to the individual-

I believe DK had the BEST and most appropriate platform for all Americans- unfortunately, I also believe that the chance of even a tiny part of his excellent plans being able to make it into law were less than slim.

I have health issues that keep me from being eligible to get any health insurance and couldn't afford it even if it was available to me. I don't expect to live long enough to see any gov't sponsored health care- , please don't think this is an issue I don't pay attention to- or have little interest in- it isn't.


peace~

[Breeze54]

53. Hey. if this was easily solved or understood... we'd all be covered by now!

;)

Move to MASS and you will be covered asap!

I am almost there... finally! :)

It's my own fault that I waited so long to apply.

[sandnsea]

4. No, although Edwards did, iirc

People are confusing mandates with entitled benefit. It's not the same thing.

On edit, Edwards proposed mandated coverage for children.

[democrattotheend]

11. Edwards' plan in 2004 included mandates?

Interesting that that particular distinction never got any coverage in the 2004 candidate debates, if Edwards had mandates and other candidates didn't.

Kind of lends credence to my theory that this is a minor difference that has been overblown for the sake of drawing distinctions and giving them something to debate.

Was Edwards' plan this time the same as what he proposed 4 years ago?

[MarjorieG]

5. Mandates on people are punitive, and conservative

Mandates on big government more Democratic. We need to respect the market, now, and, unfortunately, can't afford another big government proposal, unless it's Bush's boondoggle of Homeland Security.

[Breeze54]

13. Do you have car insurance?

If not, what state do you live in?

[democrattotheend]

17. You could argue that driving is more of a privilege

than getting life-saving healthcare. And people are not required to have insurance on their own cars...only on the damage they might do to other people's cars or to other people.

[Breeze54]

55. Car insurance is mandated in all states in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_insurance

United States

In the United States, auto insurance is compulsory in most states, though enforcement of the requirement varies from state to state. The state of New Hampshire, for example, does not require motorists to carry liability insurance, while in Virginia residents must pay the state a $500 annual fee per vehicle if they choose not to buy liability insurance.<3> Penalties for not purchasing auto insurance vary by state, but often involve a substantial fine, license and/or registration suspension or revocation, as well as possible jail time in some states. Usually, the minimum required by law is third party insurance to protect third parties against the financial consequences of loss, damage or injury caused by a vehicle. Typically, coverage against loss of or damage to the driver's own vehicle is optional - one notable exception to this is in Saskatchewan, where SGI provides collision coverage (less than a $700 deductible, such as a collision damage waiver) as part of its basic insurance policy.

-

Every state requires that motorists carry minimum levels of auto insurance coverage in order to ensure that its drivers can cover the cost of damages to people or property in the event of an automobile accident. <15>

That's a mandate.

[kerrygoddess]

76. Yes it is

And so too should healthcare be mandated.

[Sanctified]

77. Are you required to own a car? n/t

[Breeze54]

85. You could off yourself and you wouldn't even need health insurance.

What's your point? :shrug:

:crazy:

[Sanctified]

86. lol, or I could just elect not to have health insurance since I am young and healthy.

Why should we force people to buy what they don't need. I think auto manufacturers would love it if the government mandated that everyone had to own a car, shit even auto insurance companies would love that also. All mandating insurance will do is increase the cost of insurance just like mandatory auto insurance increased the cost of auto insurance.

[Breeze54]

87. Because you are young, you don't recognize that you DO need health insurance.

Oh My Lordy! :P

:rofl:

Even young people get cancer, hit by trucks, bitten by diseased mosquito's and get mononucleosis from kissing!

You NEED health insurance!! You are NOT infallible! You will get injured/sick at some point!! :rofl:

Your costs for your premium/payment will be lower if you are in a large group of people with the same insurance.

It's CHEAPER that way and you'll be covered in case of an emergency.. ;)

BTW? I believe all the plans didn't require anyone to join if they had health insurance through a job.

But you DO need health insurance, even if you are young.... maybe because of that fact! ;)

Youthful people like to take risks, more than older people, and therefore get injured more.

:hug:

[kerrygoddess]

24. Please tell JK that - because he called for mandates in '06

I'm surprised Kerry supporters here don't remember.

On July 31, 2006 John Kerry gave a speech at Faneuil Hall in Boston in which he called for mandates - universal health care. The Kerry Health Care Plan was a revision of his '04 plan with the much needed mandates included. Here's an excerpt from his speech:

Today I will set out a health care plan that I believe must be a centerpiece of our purpose and promise to the nation. Here are the goals and principles of this plan:

ONE – Every American, and I mean everybody, must have health coverage by 2012.

TWO – To get there, we start with kids first. They’re born, they’re enrolled in health care. They go to child care, they’re enrolled. They go to school, they’re enrolled. No “ifs,” “ands,” or “buts,” every child gets health care – automatically, immediately, every child in America gets health care now.

THIRD – We must and will control the skyrocketing premiums, co-pays, and exclusions that make a mockery of the insurance hard-working families pay for month after month. No longer will families be pushed into bankruptcy by medical bills they can’t pay —no longer will sons and daughters have to choose between paying for a doctor’s bill for one child or college tuition for another – it is time to finally guarantee that as health care costs are held down, Americans get the health care they need and deserve.

FOURTH - and finally, instead of telling tens of millions to wait until they are sick enough to go to an emergency room, we must and will assure high quality and preventive care for every American.


http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3759

And there is a fact sheet from his press office here: http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?page_id=3760

[democrattotheend]

30. It sounds like this includes a mandate for children

but where is the mandate for adults? Maybe I am missing something...

[kerrygoddess]

43. He said children first then adults by 2012

Here's more:

"The proposal I'm going to fight for this year and next year-- and until it gets done -- lives up to that challenge in a sensible, practical, comprehensive way that will cover all Americans with better quality at lower costs by 2012." - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-kerry/standing-for-something_b_26187.html

[kerrygoddess]

59. The coverage guarantee would come through some form of a government mandate, Kerry said

"If anyone is left uninsured by the 2012 deadline, Kerry would require Congress to reexamine the program and figure out how to reach them. The coverage guarantee would come through some form of a government mandate, Kerry said, though he added that it's too soon to say how that would happen." - http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/08/01/kerry_proposal_calls_for_insurance_for_all_by_2012/

[Breeze54]

64. He was trying to 'ease' the rethugs into it....

Children first.

[ProSense]

10. No! n/t

[kerrygoddess]

19. Kerry's '04 plan did not - but his revised '06 plan did

On July 31, 2006 John Kerry gave a speech at Faneuil Hall in Boston in which he called for mandates - universal health care. The Kerry Health Care Plan was a revision of his '04 plan with the much needed mandates included. Here's an excerpt from his speech:

Today I will set out a health care plan that I believe must be a centerpiece of our purpose and promise to the nation. Here are the goals and principles of this plan:

ONE – Every American, and I mean everybody, must have health coverage by 2012.

TWO – To get there, we start with kids first. They’re born, they’re enrolled in health care. They go to child care, they’re enrolled. They go to school, they’re enrolled. No “ifs,” “ands,” or “buts,” every child gets health care – automatically, immediately, every child in America gets health care now.

THIRD – We must and will control the skyrocketing premiums, co-pays, and exclusions that make a mockery of the insurance hard-working families pay for month after month. No longer will families be pushed into bankruptcy by medical bills they can’t pay —no longer will sons and daughters have to choose between paying for a doctor’s bill for one child or college tuition for another – it is time to finally guarantee that as health care costs are held down, Americans get the health care they need and deserve.

FOURTH - and finally, instead of telling tens of millions to wait until they are sick enough to go to an emergency room, we must and will assure high quality and preventive care for every American.


http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3759

And there is a fact sheet from his press offfice here: http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?page_id=3760

[democrattotheend]

26. Interesting

It seems that mandates have become the latest fad in terms of ideas about how to solve the healthcare crisis. I am not saying there are no good arguments for them, but I still think the difference between Clinton and Obama on this issue has been way overblown.

[ProSense]

28. There was no mandate in that plan! n/t

[kerrygoddess]

35. Kerry: "Every American, and I mean everybody, must have health coverage by 2012."

That's a mandate if I ever saw one.

[ProSense]

36. Are you comparing a goal to a mandate to force people to buy insurance? n/t

[kerrygoddess]

57. The coverage guarantee would come through some form of a government mandate, Kerry said

"If anyone is left uninsured by the 2012 deadline, Kerry would require Congress to reexamine the program and figure out how to reach them. The coverage guarantee would come through some form of a government mandate, Kerry said, though he added that it's too soon to say how that would happen." - http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/08/01/kerry_proposal_calls_for_insurance_for_all_by_2012/

[ProSense]

70. So the plan doesn't include mandates, but he'd "reexamine the program and figure out how reach them"

You're advocating that the existing plans include a mandate, they obviously do not.

[kerrygoddess]

72. Your twisting everything to feed your Hillary hatred

as you always do.

[ProSense]

75. Don't throw the BS "Hillary hatred" at me. The article is talking about a future evaluation and does

not support your claim that the existing plans include a mandate.

[kerrygoddess]

78. brick wall.

brick wall. brick wall. I no better than to bother with responding to you.

[TayTay]

20. No n/t

[kerrygoddess]

25. No? Really? Kerry never called for mandates?

You need to do your homework.

On July 31, 2006 John Kerry gave a speech at Faneuil Hall in Boston in which he called for mandates - universal health care. The Kerry Health Care Plan was a revision of his '04 plan with the much needed mandates included. Here's an excerpt from his speech:

Today I will set out a health care plan that I believe must be a centerpiece of our purpose and promise to the nation. Here are the goals and principles of this plan:

ONE – Every American, and I mean everybody, must have health coverage by 2012.

TWO – To get there, we start with kids first. They’re born, they’re enrolled in health care. They go to child care, they’re enrolled. They go to school, they’re enrolled. No “ifs,” “ands,” or “buts,” every child gets health care – automatically, immediately, every child in America gets health care now.

THIRD – We must and will control the skyrocketing premiums, co-pays, and exclusions that make a mockery of the insurance hard-working families pay for month after month. No longer will families be pushed into bankruptcy by medical bills they can’t pay —no longer will sons and daughters have to choose between paying for a doctor’s bill for one child or college tuition for another – it is time to finally guarantee that as health care costs are held down, Americans get the health care they need and deserve.

FOURTH - and finally, instead of telling tens of millions to wait until they are sick enough to go to an emergency room, we must and will assure high quality and preventive care for every American.


http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3759

And there is a fact sheet from his press office here: http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?page_id=3760

[kerrygoddess]

38. Do you not remember what you wrote after his '06 address on the issue?

Funny... You would think you would remember what you wrote about Kerry's '06 healthcare address:

Kerry specifically today proded Democrats not to nibble around the edges of this problem, not to pretend that a few dollars here or a few fixes there would really solve the problem. He is asking for a grand plan that really addresses the whole problem and that does so with an idea to including all Americans in the coverage. - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3762

[ProSense]

45. Ensuring coverage is accessible and affordable for everyone is not forcing them to buy it by madate.

It's not!

[kerrygoddess]

50. And here's where he hits the Republicans who are against mandates

http://kerry.senate.gov/cfm/record.cfm?id=269640

[sandnsea]

54. That is mandates on insurance companies

and states that require insurance companies to cover various procedures -- not individual people.

[ProSense]

56. That's an argument in support of state health programs against Republican sabotage

No one should be fooled by this wolf in sheep's clothing; striking down decades of consumer-advocacy protections at the state level will prove to be a boon for the insurance industry, not small businesses and not the American people.

The fact that 49 states have already passed regulations on which health care benefits must be covered tells us something. They recognize that without these state-mandated benefits, insurance companies will have incentives to cherry-pick the youngest and healthiest workers to keep their costs down. Those most in need of health insurance will be left on their own with sky-high premiums.

It's for this reason that 39 state attorneys general have come out against the Republican plan. ``Allowing health insurers to abandon mandated benefits . . . will result in an increasingly ill population and higher health care costs as the health care system treats a growing number of consumers in crisis,'' they wrote in a letter to federal lawmakers.

In 2004, I argued that every American should have access to the same high-quality health care enjoyed by members of Congress. We can do that by providing small employers with the same benefit plans and premiums available to members of Congress and 8 million federal employees while still protecting every state mandate on the books. This would allow small businesses to get lower rates using the powerful negotiating clout of the federal government.

A real start for helping small businesses with the cost of health care premiums is to give those with fewer than 50 employees a refundable tax credit. And we should set reasonable rules on what insurers can charge so they can't price-out our most vulnerable citizens.

Affordable health care should be a right for all Americans, not a privilege for the elected and the connected. But in our eagerness to fix the problem, we cannot let America's hard-working entrepreneurs, our small-business owners, be used as a political pawn to move legislation that will put health care beyond the reach of the very people who need it most. It is time for Congress to address this problem with meaningful solutions, not empty sound bites. It is time to pass true small-business health reform.

Kerry's plans in 2004 and 2006 do not include mandates to force people to buy insurance.

[Breeze54]

58. Exactly! The more people in the group. the lower the costs!

;)

[kerrygoddess]

60. Exactly - that is what Clinton has said

on the issue of mandating health insurance.

[Breeze54]

63. I already said that upthread.

;)

[ProSense]

65. No, she emphasizes penalties, including

Video: going after people's wages

[kerrygoddess]

68. So does Obama

He will fine people if they show up at the emergency room with out insurance and he said he would during the debate. That was her argument during the debate - you get everyone in a plan and we don't need to fine them. Duh? You are not paying attention.

[ProSense]

73. Are you kidding? That's Hillary's argument: that he lacks a mandate and will not cover everyone!

You are spinning yourself into disingenuous territory.

Obama isn't advocating forcing people to buy insurance. Period!

[kerrygoddess]

82. Obama's plan has a mandate on parents and a fine if parents do not...

Barack Obama will fine parents if their children don't have health care:

CLINTON: ... You know, Senator Obama's plan has a mandate on parents and a fine if parents do not...

OBAMA: That's right.

CLINTON: ... insure their children.

OBAMA: That's right.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/21/debate.transcript/

[kerrygoddess]

80. Obama: "Senator Clinton has said that we won't go after their wages"

Barack Obama said during the debate: "Senator Clinton has said that we won't go after their wages"

He also confirmed that he WILL FINE parents who don't have healthcare for their children. He's the one planning to fine - not her. If he said otherwise in the video link you provided he's flip flopping AGAIN.

CLINTON: This is a significant difference. You know, Senator Obama has said it's a philosophical difference. I think it's a substantive difference.

He has a mandate for parents to be sure to ensure their children. I agree with that. I just know that if we don't go and require everyone to have health insurance, the health insurance industry will still game the system. Everyone of us with insurance will pay the hidden tax of approximately $900 a year to make up for the lack of insurance.

(APPLAUSE)

And you know, in one of our earlier debates, John Edwards made a great point. It would be as though Social Security were voluntary. Medicare, one of the great accomplishments of President Johnson, was voluntary.

(APPLAUSE)

I do not believe that is going to work. So it's not just a philosophical difference.

CLINTON: You look at what will work and what will not work. If you do not have a plan that starts out attempting to achieve universal health care, you will be nibbled to death, and we will be back here with more and more people uninsured and rising costs.

(APPLAUSE)

BROWN: All right. We appreciate that you want to make a point, Senator Obama. We have limited time, so I would like Jorge to move on to another subject or we're going to be out of time.

(CROSSTALK)

OBAMA: Well, I understand. But I think that Senator Clinton made a...

(LAUGHTER)

You know, she's making a point, and I think I should have the opportunity to respond very briefly. And I'll try to make...

BROWN: Very briefly, absolutely.

OBAMA: Number one, understand that when Senator Clinton says a mandate, it's not a mandate on government to provide health insurance, it's a mandate on individuals to purchase it. And Senator Clinton is right; we have to find out what works.

OBAMA: Now, Massachusetts has a mandate right now. They have exempted 20 percent of the uninsured because they have concluded that that 20 percent can't afford it.

In some cases, there are people who are paying fines and still can't afford it, so now they're worse off than they were. They don't have health insurance and they're paying a fine.

(APPLAUSE)

In order for you to force people to get health insurance, you've got to have a very harsh penalty, and Senator Clinton has said that we won't go after their wages. Now, this is a substantive difference. But understand that both of us seek to get universal health care. I have a substantive difference with Senator Clinton on how to get there.

BROWN: All right, Senator Clinton?

CLINTON: Wait a minute, no, this is too important. This is the number one issue that people talk to me about. You know, when a mother grabs my arm and says, "I can't get the operation my son needs because I don't have health insurance," it is personal for me.

CLINTON: And I just fundamentally disagree.

You know, Senator Obama's plan has a mandate on parents and a fine if parents do not...

OBAMA: That's right.

CLINTON: ... insure their children.

OBAMA: That's right.

CLINTON: Because he recognizes that unless we have some kind of restriction, we will not get there.

OBAMA: There's a reason.

CLINTON: He's also said that if people show up at a hospital sick, without health insurance, well, maybe at that point you can fine them.

We would not have a social compact with Social Security and Medicare if everyone did not have to participate. I want a universal health care plan.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Now, that's -- that mother -- that mother who is desperate to get health care for her child, will be able to get that health care under my plan. Point number one.

Point number two, the reason a mandate for children can be effective is we've got an ability to make affordable health care available to that child, right now.

OBAMA: There are no excuses. If a parent is not providing health care for that child, it's because the parent's not being responsible, under my plan. And those children don't have a choice. But I think that adults are going to be able to see that they can afford it, under my plan; they will get it, under my plan.

And it is true that, if it turns out that some are gaming the system, then we can impose, potentially, some penalties on them for gaming the system.

But the notion that, somehow, I am interested in leaving out 15 million people, without health insurance, is simply not true.

BROWN: All right. Jorge...

CLINTON: We disagree on that.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/21/debate.transcript/

[area51]

88. "The more people in a group, the lower the costs."

Funny how that hasn't worked for mandated car insurance, and won't work for mandated rightwing health insurance either. But Hillary does love GingrichCare -- forcing people to buy health insurance at gunpoint. Gingrich, like HRC, thought the only reason why we're having a crisis is b/c people are "too lazy" to buy republican health insurance unless forced to by govt. He, like HRC, would never consider life-saving single-payer. He must be very proud of his student HRC.

[Yossariant]

29. With 14% uninsured in 2003, Kerry proposed covering an additional 6%,

leaving 8% uninsured.

Though he said, "I have a plan to provide health care to all Americans."

FactCheck:

"He doesn't. His plan would extend coverage to between 24 and 27 million Americans who don't have it now, depending on which estimate one chooses. But none of the estimates predict "all" would be insured. A study by the independent Lewin Group, for example, projects that 92% would have coverage, up from just under 86% in 2003."

http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/John_Kerry_Health_Care.htm

[beachmom]

40. 25 million is still a lot of people who would be insured by now.

And, of course, the media ignored his health care plan. It was all terror alerts and 9/11. Remember?

[jackson_dem]

48. There wasn't a political consensus for universal health care in 2004

It was taboo from 1993 until Edwards came out with a universal health care plan in 2007 and Hillary basically copied his plan and Obama copied almost all of it except for the mandate for adults.

[karynnj]

69. No - in his 2008 plan that he gave a speach on at Faneuil Hall in 2006,

he did speak of mandates, but thought they should be added once the plan was beginning to work in bringing down costs - maybe in 2012. He actually spoke of both the problems and the reasons for mandates. This speech was before either HRC or Edwards had their plans out. In many ways it was similar to his 2004 plan. (His 2004 plan was called near universal and was called "too expensive" by the 2004 Edwards.)

The best feature of Kerry's 2004 plan was the catastrophic re-insurance that had costs beyond $50,000 insured by the government. In 2004, it seemed to me that if it did what was likely - cutting cost by spreading risk better, it could be a way to transition from the multi-payer systems to single payer. You just gradually cut the threshold for catastrophic to a point where people could take just that -and the costs up to there would be equivalent to the deductible. (I never read this - but it is mathematically obvious.)

[kerrygoddess]

74. His '06 speech is here

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3759