Hillary has one hell of a nerve talking about Democrats attacking Democrats. Just ask John Kerry.

[beachmom]

Watch Hillary Clinton attack a fellow Democrat. Notice that she is joined by George Bush and John McCain.

I think that Jane Hamsher said it best at the time:

Hillary Clinton and Rush Limbaugh Trash John Kerry

By: Jane Hamsher Wednesday November 1, 2006 5:01 pm

Well you certainly expect it of Butt Boil Limbaugh, and I suppose you should expect it by now of Hillary Clinton -- Sista Souljah is obviously a family affair.

I could understand that people just want the whole John Kerry thing to disappear from the stage a week out from the elections, but the Republicans and their compliant media (who seem to think a botched joke is more important than a botched war) aren't letting that happen. Anyway, the appropriate course of action for those wishing for it to fade away would be to simply change the subject, or at least STFU and not seize on it for personal political gain, but John Kerry did after all come out and criticize Holy Joe Lieberman so he must (like Howard Dean before him) be punished.

She then shows how Bob Casey defended John Kerry even though election day for him was just a week away.

Anyone with the guts to tell the GOP to Fuck Right Off and stick it to George Bush and his failed war gets a high five.

I know it's hard to be a woman running for President, but her husband triangulated the party right out of an identity in the 90s and we've been paying the price ever since. Can she please find a way to conduct her campaign without tearing apart the Democratic Party? Thanks Hills.

No, she could not. We all should have known at that moment in the fall of 2006 that all Democrats except the Clintons are expendable. People here can high five her angry tirade today about "not attacking fellow Democrats" all they want. She has no record to back up her assertions. It is empty rhetoric. Not only did her Karl Rove assertion ring hollow, I have just shown evidence that Hillary joined in to trump up a Karl Rove tactic against a fellow Democrat.

The truth is Hillary Clinton (and her husband) love to attack fellow Democrats when it suits their political purposes, and have shown repeatedly that they do not hold any "core Democratic principles". I call bullshit on her sanctimonious rant today.

[Forkboy]

1. That was honestly my turning point with her. She bought right into that Right wing meme.

No hesitation, no thought, just political maneuvering, and ugly maneuvering at that. I honestly haven't felt the same about her since, and long time DUer's will tell you I wasn't exactly thrilled with the ham sandwich...errr Kerry. ;)

[beachmom]

2. I still remember when she did it. Over at the Kerry forum, there was

just shock and horror. That was a bad week for us, and Hillary made it worse. Her remark alone gave the story another day's news cycle. It was a betrayal.

[Cha]

19. Total betrayal..and I haven't liked

her since Oct, 2002 when she betrayed our country, our party, and I'd say herself but she's always been a traitor.

[babylonsister]

3. Thanks, beachmom. Jane had

another memorable quote today on Clinton defending her NAFTA record:

http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/hillary-slams-obama-on-nafta/

snip//
"She's not running against Obama anymore -- she's essentially running against Bill. I mean, I really don't know how you utter the "It took a Clinton to clean up after a Bush" line in one breath, and then in the next admit that he fucked up the job."

And I had never read that Bob Casey quote. I like him more now because of it. :thumbsup:

[gateley]

4. I hadn't seen that. In that clip, anyway, even McCain didn't diss him.

Hillary shouldn't have said that - should just have said "we can't let it divert us...".

EDIT to add - she REALLY shouldn't have made that angry statement today.

[beachmom]

6. I know. Really bad. nt

[Cha]

20. Senator John Kerry was in her way

and she and her stunted crew saw their chance.

[Thrill]

5. OH I so remember that. I have a friend who has never forgiven Hillary for that

[ginnyinWI]

44. I have never forgiven her for that either.

It was pure politics--done for her own personal political gain. She can't hold a candle to JK's patiotism, IMO.


She's not dumb. She knew what he meant to say.

[MadBadger]

7. She claimed that Obama was going against core democratic principles by attacking her on health care

And yet she had the audacity to attack his pro-choice credentials. she really is somethin.

[Cha]

21. It's pathetic..just what we don't need

in another president of our country.

[speedoo]

8. When she knifed John Kerry in the back, I started hating her.

Her IWR vote was the last straw in terms of ever supporting her again. Since then, she has done even more to make me dislike, and finally, hate her.

Her idiotic and lying rant today just cemented my opinion of her. She's no better than Lieberman.

[Cha]

22. hilary is no better than lieman

and in some ways worse 'cause she's trying real hard to position herself in a place of power where it would be damn hard to stop their lust for themselves.

[Inuca]

34. In terms of having principles

and sticking by them, I think she is WORSE than Lieberman. I completely disagree with his stances on the war and related issues, but I also believe that he thinks that his positions are the correct ones. He took significant political risks in adopting these positions so openly and consistently. He stood by what he thinks is the right think to do. I do not despise somebody for being wrong, but I do think that lack of principles and backstabbing for one's personal benefit is despicable.

[speedoo]

39. Good points, guys.

You are absolutely right. She IS worse than Lieberman, because her positions are not principled, they are calculated to help her gain power.

[Hieronymus]

9. One of Hillary's less than great moments.

[Colobo]

10. Very good post.

[angie_love]

11. Wow i've never seen that...I'm shocked

:wow: It is obvious to me that she said that knowing she was running in 2008. I can't believe she stabbed Kerry in the back like that. That 2004 election was traumatizing for me.

[beachmom]

14. Well, it was a primary war move. Kerry was still considering a presidential

run, and she wanted to eliminate competition. She took the opportunity, possibly sacrificing midterm election gains for her own personal "gain". The funny thing is when Kerry decided not to run in January '08, huge swaths of his staff and donors went to Obama. She is her worst own enemy.

[blm]

24. Yep, as Kerry turned over most of his national machine to Obama, how's that working out for her?

THAT is an aspect to this campaign that most of corpmedia hasn't even factored in yet.

[Tatiana]

31. Yes, Kerry donors definitely kept Obama in it last fall.

Thankfully, until the Obama fundraising machine was fully functional.

[u2spirit]

40. But Bill said in Nov '06

That he didn't know if she was running and hadn't said anything to him. Surely he wasn't fibbing?

[kerrygoddess]

12. And Jane Hamsher has never bashed Kerry?

Good gracious, at least choose a blogger that never bashed him to make your point.

You may not understand this but if you look really hard at all of this objectively Clinton had a point today. The issue is Obama has gone after her repeatedly now on healthcare - She said what she said about JK apologizing after the botched joke just once. And Kerry stood up and defended her when the right wing went after her months ago. Obama has repeatedly called her divisive. Plenty of Dems don't feel that she is - it's insulting. He repeats right wing talking points about her. It's wrong.

It broke my heart when she said JK should appologize but at some point I had to look and realize that she had a better stance on the issues and I saw her getting beat up by the media as Kerry was in '04 and that is what I based my choice to support her on.

I think you and all the Kerry people are good people, but this constant attacking of HRC by the Kerry group here is not in standing with who Senator Kerry is in my opinion and it's a dis-service to him that you continue to bash HRC. He's not in this race now. God(dess) knows I wish the hell he was because I wouldn't be here saying I this if he was.

She's not the enemy - she's the other candidate and damn good Democratic Senator who's done a lot of good for this country. You know damn well she'll have Obama's back if he wins the nomination. Why, I have no idea after the treatment she has gotten from him and his supporters.

[beachmom]

16. So your response is that since Jane Hamsher sometimes criticizes Kerry, anything she has to

say EVER cannot be quoted. Okaay. You know that Kerry liveblogged on FDL, right?

Hillary is the one blasting Obama on something she has done -- attack a fellow Democrat using Karl Rove tactics. So it is not "bashing HRC" to call her out on her hypocrisy.

It isn't just blogger and citizen supporters of Kerry, btw, who feel this way:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=4d59656c-ac34-4e87-9fe9-9ae37b2e2653&p=1

For many in Kerry's orbit, the final straw came in 2006, after the senator mangled a joke about lousy students getting "stuck in Iraq." (Kerry had intended to needle Bush for "getting us stuck in a war in Iraq.") The fallout helped dash Kerry's hopes of another White House run. In the minds of his supporters, that's precisely what Hillary Clinton intended when she piled on two days later, calling the comment "inappropriate." "A lot of us were rip-shit pissed off at Hillary for putting her boot on his neck," says one dedicated fund-raiser. Once Kerry officially bowed out, several of his most loyal money men decamped for team Obama.


I do hope Hillary will have Obama's back in the general, but she certainly never had Kerry's, so her track record isn't very good.

[Cha]

23. Perish the thought..hilary won't

have Obama's back, front, side or anything..it'll all be about hilary running in 2012.

[kerrygoddess]

37. And I wrote about it too

And I never intended to get involved in this election because of it. But as time went on, I had realize, as I said here, that this election was important to me and I found the Hillary hatred as appalling as I found the Kerry hatred.

There are Kerry supporters also backing Hillary, Beachmom. They have not ALL gone to Obama. And the same can be said about Obama backing Hillary if she wins the nomination. I would hope that Obama, JK, Ted, and all of you Kerry supporters who constantly repeat right wing talking points about her here, will get her back in general election.

[Major Hogwash]

38. Name two.

I dare ya. Just name 2 people who supported Kerry in 2004 who is now supporting Hillary.

Go ahead.

[kerrygoddess]

43. just 2?

Me, Peter Daou, Morra Aarons - All Kerry '04 (from mid '03 through the GE) internet team. And off the top of my head other bloggers who supported Kerry: Taylor Marsh, Steve Soto and Eriposte on The Left Coaster all supported Kerry.

[beachmom]

41. Please show me where my post is demonstrating "right wing talking points".

The Right HATES Kerry and loved scalping him during the joke. As did Hillary.

And I think Obama is a superior candidate to Hillary in every way, shape, or form. He even has more experience than her in legislating. He is honest, has integrity, and as Kerry said yesterday "a great instinct" on foreign policy. Obama has my entire family excited, and I know Bush voters who are looking at him favorably. Not so with Hillary, for which the only people I know who support her are dependable Democratic white women. That is not a coalition to win.

The problem is you don't debate the point of discussion. You simply debate whether somebody is a "Hillary hater" and dismiss all arguments against her as "right wing talking points" which is a total cop out. The truth is you cannot win the argument here. Hillary has NO RIGHT to condemn "Democrats attacking Democrats" since she has done it herself in the worst way against a Democrat we both love.

I am well aware of several Kerry supporters who support Hillary. We're not Kerrybots and think on our own. It just so happens I already was supporting Obama, when Kerry endorsed him. Of course, I had a feeling he leaned that way, but my support for Obama had to do with my own observations and research.

[NMMatt]

13. Today was Hillary's "Dean Scream" moment

Watch her poll numbers tank. I honestly think she'll lose both Ohio and Texas by significant margins. She came across as unhinged, desperate and to anyone who has even paid minimal attention to the campaign - beyond hypocritical. Any good will she might have earned at the last debate will have been lost. If she attacks Obama on Thursday on the mailers, he only has to calmly point out the numerous attacks, distortions, mailers, push-calls, innuendos, spins and so on coming from the Clinton campaign and redirect back to discussing the issues. If she reverts back to love-fest Hillary, it will confuse voters even more.

The fact that one day she talks about coming together and two days later is in full outrage mode is obvious that this campaign has lost all control of its own message. Hell, either approach would be preferable to both. This trying to do both at once is making the candidate literally appear crazy to the voting public.

[democrattotheend]

15. Good point!

Hadn't thought of that. She was quick to throw Kerry under the bus when it suited her interests, not to mention being the first to go negative on the air. Obama has never run a negative TV or radio ad, and they have both been sending negative mailers for a while.

[Franks Wild Years]

17. Obama is just a much, much better politician than Clinton could ever dream of being

Cool, calm and collected, with an ability to connect with the people he talks to in a far more convincing manner than she ever could. He'll criticise you, but he won't do it in a crass, damaging way...he will be able to disagree with this or that without causing massive uproar because he will remain calm and reasonable about it - he won't plunge the knife in so viciously. He has the temperament to be at the helm of such a powerful nation, she would be at least as dangerous as Bush has been.

[Cha]

26. Good post..

Welcome to DU, Frank!

[polichick]

29. So true about Obama's temperament...

I wish I could stay that cool, calm and collected when confronted with ridiculous attacks ~ sometimes I can't resist firing back.

[Cha]

33. I'm a mess when discussing

hilary when her supporters give me the hilary talking points they fell for. I'm talking about in life outside DU..I've resolved not to say anymore about it.

Let Obama handle it!

[ginnyinWI]

46. Bill made it look so easy --

But he's Bill and she's certainly not. And anyway, that was the 90s. Now it's 2008, and even Bill doesn't seem to be influencing people like he used to. They are using the same campaign script that Bill did back then--even to quoting the same lines, somehow believing that the same magic will happen.


Soon this will all be over, thankfully. And we can get back to opposing the Republican!


Obama is, if anything, superior to Bill in political skill. He is very controlled, which makes Hillary look all the worse. It must drive her crazy that he doesn't take any of her bait but remains steadfastly on message. He's stayed positive, which is truthfully the only way for him to survive. If he were to go negative or angry, even once, they'd pounce: he'd be branded as 1) a misogynist, and 2) an "angry black man".

[Cha]

18. hilary's a tool and not the sharpest one

in the shed.

[polichick]

25. You're right - she does have a lot of nerve pointing fingers about that...

And nobody wants to hear a candidate lecture another candidate like that ~ she sounded like an angry parent or teacher.

[Cha]

28. Or an angry boss..and

nobody likes to be bossed around.

[polichick]

30. Yeah, she practically gave orders about the next debate! nt

[Cha]

32. With a deMEANor that says

"I'm bringing a knife to a debatex( !"

[ORDem]

27. K & R! n/t

:kick:

[Unbowed]

35. I'm disgusted.

The pattern of behavior is inappropriate for a Democrat, let alone for an individual who wants to represent the Democratic Party in the GE for President of the United States.

IMHO, Senator Clinton has earned herself a time out.

[Firespirit]

36. My "independent" moderate Republican cousin thought this was despicable

Granted, she's a believer in science, and an economic antiwar populist who will be voting Dem this year, but still, political treachery impresses no one who is of good character.

[LordJFT]

42. what comment of kerry's was this in response to?

[ginnyinWI]

47. it was the "botched joke" back in 2006.

JK said that if you don't study hard, you "end up stuck in Iraq". He meant Bush was so dumb he got us stuck in Iraq, but the right wing deliberately interpreted it as against troops that didn't study hard.

So a day or so later, when all the RW had gotten their licks in, Hillary comes out and says the same thing--deliberately misunderstanding the joke. It came out of the blue, and all of us in the Kerry forum hated her for piling on. And we knew why.

[MrSlayer]

48. The botched joke about Bush getting us stuck in Iraq.

CNSNews.com) - Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) says comments he made Monday that appeared to imply that American troops were uneducated were a "botched joke" intended to insult President Bush.

At a news conference in Seattle Tuesday, Kerry refused to apologize and accused Republicans of distorting his comment in a "classic GOP, textbook Republican campaign tactic."

His comment was "clearly a remark that was directed at this administration."

At a campaign stop in California for gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides, Kerry said Monday: "Education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Kerry's comment drew a strong reaction from conservatives, with some accusing him of "smearing" the troops by calling them uneducated.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200610/POL20061031d.html

[rodeodance]

45. Yeah, I think of Joe Wilson, Shiela Jackson Lee, others That Obamafolk have pushed under the bus!

[Chasing Dreams]

49. "Obamafolk" are supporters, not the candidate.

Your post does not respond to the original message--Hillary is attacking a fellow Democrat.

I don't know if Obama's supporters did anything of the sort, but it really doesn't matter. Obama supporters here are not the candidate, and he is not responsible in any way for what they say or do on DU.

Hillary through Kerry under the bus, and that's a fact. But you apparently think that was fine.

[politicasista]

50. Yep. They're ok with that

Never mind that Kerry defended Hillary last year when she was under attacked.