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MEET ME IN OHIO or Why Hillary Has Sealed Her Own Fate

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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:06 AM
Original message
MEET ME IN OHIO or Why Hillary Has Sealed Her Own Fate
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 12:08 AM by K Gardner
We start with this:
No matter what happens in this contest, and I am honored, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama. I am absolutely honored. ” Clinton said in her closing, before reaching over to accept a handshake from him. “Whatever happens, we’re going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we’ll be able to say the same thing about the American people, and that’s what this election should be about.” The audience gave a standing ovation and applauded. Her spokesman said it showed her strength and compassion. Her husband said it showed off the real Hillary Clinton.



And go to this:
"Let's have a real campaign,” she said, her anger palpable. “Enough with the speeches and the big rallies... Shame on you Barack Obama... Meet me in Ohio. Let's have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign.”



As I commented in an earlier thread, this bad political theatre was one of two things, neither good for Hillary:

1) She truly lost control, resulting in a very undignified rant unbecoming the Future Leader of the Free World.

or

2) She didn't really come unglued, she was acting in political theatre, in which case she is a liar and disingenuous and willing to do anything including destroying the future Nominee and the Democratic Party to gain power.

Both numbers 1 and 2 are Fatal Blows to her already Failing Campaign.

So, let's say Penn and Wolfson panicked after her "conciliatory closing" in the debate. Even as Keith Olbermann and Richard Wolffe tried to interpret Hillary's closing, an email came in from Wolfson.

OLBERMANN: Well, interpret that, because obviously that’s the headline question before we go nuts and bolts on the individual answers, was there a message in there? Was there some sort of door being knocked on even if Hillary Clinton has gone from great favorite to long shot underdog, was she knocking on the door saying, you know what, we don’t have to be enemies, here, if you’re going to beat me, I’m not going to drag the ticket down, I’m not going to drag the Democrats down, I would be even willing to campaign for you, I might even be on your ticket? Is it too much to read all that into a simple handshake and a “we’ll be fine” answer at the end?

WOLFFE: We’re reading a lot into it, but I think it was striking.

Look, that was by far and away her best moment of the debate. It was the very last moment of the debate, so if she was really trying to deliver that message, she could have done it right at the very start.

And yeah, those first 45 minutes were very civil, but I think what you’re seeing playing out there is the split personality of the Clinton campaign, right now. Do they go civil, united the Democratic front, or are they trying to be aggressive and confrontational? And we’ve seen both sides of it. I don’t think that debate has been resolved inside the Clinton campaign.

OLBERMANN: Well, indeed it hasn’t. Just as we speak, an e-mail has gone out from the Clinton campaign. Let me ask you about this. This is from Howard Wolfson about that very last moment.

“What we saw in the final moments,” said Wolfson of the Clinton campaign, of course, “in that debate, is why Hillary Clinton is the next president of the United States. Her strength, her life experience, her compassion, she’s tested and ready. It was the moment she retook the reins of this race and showed women and men why she is the best choice.”

I don’t know of anybody who would have seen that who would have thought of that in terms of a commanding moment other than Howard Wolfson. Does that suggest that when she got off that stage, somebody in her camp said: why did you do that? And was outraged, surprised, shocked, whatever term you’d want to use?


Let's not for one minute let Hillary seem human. Get her back out there, get her mad, make her fight, get her worked up, have her REALLY go after the man she was last seen paying tribute to.

So let's say, given the Changing Winds of the Clinton Campaign, Hillary has once again let herself be led down the wrong garden path by her advisors. Let's say people close to her, seeing the negative light in which she has been portrayed after this latest media fiasco, have prevailed upon her to show her lighter side; to back down a bit from the negative and harsh rhetoric that earned her a round of hearty "boos" in the debate. Go back to the Good Hillary. Unfortunately, there is nothing Hillary can do. The die has been cast and it might as well be set in stone. The Attack Machine, Angry Hillary, Scolding Hillary must show up at the debate on Tuesday night. She rounded up the press. She raised her voice and waved flyers in the air at them. In olden times, what she did would be tantamount to challenging her rival to a duel. It cannot be undone. If she doesn't follow through, she looks weak.

Obama was nonplussed. He remained calm and answered the charges with dignity. His campaign says they're looking forward to Tuesday.

"We look forward to having a debate this Tuesday on the facts.."


I'm sure they are. Hillary has telegraphed her intent to the world and shown her entire hand. She is obligated to play it, regardless.

Lose/lose for Hillary. Win/win for Obama.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Damn Hillary is amazing! Go Hill!
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. In duels, or in poker, not typically a GOOD thing to telegraph your moves. But yeah, GO HILL !
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Unbowed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Great reply there. LOL!
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Telegraph? Telegraph?!? Who the hell uses telegraphs anymore?!?!
The telegraph went out long before telephones even went wireless. People use global communications satellites now, and instant messaging. How can someone be so out of it not to realize that "Telegraph" is like a century out of date. Someone might IM their move, but Telegraph it???
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
54. 4 m0dRn c4nd1d4t txt msgs hr m0vs. sn4p!
jes sayin, yo...
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #54
62. Speak English! No Text - End of Message
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. Of course I was riffing on your telegraph joke. translation follows.
"A modern candidate text messages her moves. Snap!"

Taking your anachronism -based humor to a modern level. Jolly good, what!
This also relates to our earlier thread where you posted your "intimidation" at using telegraph as a term, after seeing the reaction to the use of the term "Xerox."
This explanation is for the TV audience playing along at home.

And so, olde school guy making moves as if young, like drunken Master kung fu.
Words are fun things.
i know you know this, or at least assume, some find "elite geek speek"(733T!) difficult to scan.

As well as text messaging. (txt msgng)

Brains. Our mostest fun toy we can carry anywhere. ;)
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #70
80. Actually I only struggled for a moment decoding it, (laughing out loud)
Though I don't personally use text messaging yet, I am tuned in enough to know that short cut spellings etc. are evolving constantly with it. I was of course playing along by spelling out n/t and eom even though I use those all the time, just like I use "lol".

It's been fun keeping a running joke running over multiple threads. Thanks for playing with me! :)
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
75. It's a figure of speech, not meant to be taken literally.
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Name One "Amazing " Thing About Her...
:eyes:
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:24 AM
Original message
Her inner beauty and strength. She takes my breath away.
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UndergroundEcoHound Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
32. Huh?
Seriously, people might compare Obama supporters to cultists, but this post gave me the creeps.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Ha! That was the point.
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UndergroundEcoHound Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Good...
good, from either side that starry-eyed sound freaks me out. :)
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
35. Did you actually buy her act today?
Hey, I have a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge for sale!
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
76. What's 'amazing' is that she continues to take bad advice from dumb advisers,
showing that her judgment is not to be trusted.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. wow. what story are you responding to anyway?
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Um, why can't you see the strength and courage of conviction?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. "Honey, I can't come to bed, someone is wrong on the internet again!"
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Um, WTF?
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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
82. Honor! Shame! Honor! Shame! Which is it?
She's really flailing at this point. The "meet me in OH" comment told me that the TX internal polling is telling her she's lost it already so OH is her new "firewall". What's she going to do next, call out Obama on stage Tuesday, six guns a'blazin'? She's really looking pathetic at this point.

:dem:
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Iktomiwicasa Donating Member (942 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
83. Yup, she's amazing alright...
...working hard to get Obama the nomination. Keep up the good work Hillary ;)
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. Hillary telegraphed her intent and shown her entire hand. She is obligated to play it
That just needed to be in a title line for scanners. Good line!
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Danke :-)
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Thepricebreaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. Let her win Ohio, CRUSH her in Texas!
She has to win both by huge margins.. let her win Ohio and put all your ammo in Texas... Crush her there and its over.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. I am not sure as to why you would think it's a good idea for
Obama to win states in most of which he will have no shot in GE, while losing states he needs to win in GE.
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Thepricebreaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. So hillary can win 11 states and take the nomination? Thats even more over the top..
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. And how will Obama win GE, unless he wins OH and FL?
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. :popcorn:
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Thepricebreaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
77. Thats VS a republican not Dem vs Dem...
You think all the Hillary supporters in OH and FL are going to sit home ??
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RazBerryBeret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. This Buckeye
really want Ohio to go to Obama! but I didn't get either of those mailers, I feel cheated.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. You can probably buy them on EBay. His autographed books are going for a king's ransom !
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. Excellent OP - I agree 100%. K & R. n/t.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. Godzillary peeps love it/Odometer peeps hate it = no-less than a win/lose...
or a push at best :shrug:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
90. Hey, easy with the Godzilla stuff.
:)
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. She shoots..
she fumbles. "Let's have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign.”

Is Obama :scared:? NO? Yeah, she tries for scarey, that's for real.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. I understand now why Bill is campaigning so hard and so against his better nature !
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Let's have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign.
I find this sentence very off-putting. It is very school-marmish.
It is like an adult talking to a child.

This is one of the reasons that Condi Rice was not effective in her job.
She was always talking down to other countries.
Hillary will do the same.


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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I'm just not sure why that was done. Monday would have been better.....
as it is hard to talk smack in the morning and yell "Shame on you Obama" and then go to a Black symposium in the afternoon where you are getting "golf" claps and talk about your "pride" for an Obama candidacy.

It really makes her a confusing candidate to watch. Bi-polar, perhaps? :shrug:
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Plus, she showed her hand and now Obama won't be caught off guard.
I don't get it. She could have saved this for the debate Thursday and she didn't. Instead, now the Obama camp knows what to plan for and when she comes at him with this silly bullshit, he'll refute her just as well as he refuted the petty plagiarism charges.
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NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
64. she needed free air time before the debate..
faux outraged worked for her yesterday
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
85. This action will seal her fate. She's done, stick a fork in her.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. She definitely gave Obama the glove slap today
Showdown in Ohio.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. LOL.. Perfect analogy ! Pitiful image below ...
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
21. Janus... the two-faced God (aka Hillary)
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Wow.. didn't take long for somebody to produce THAT.. thanks for posting !
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
69. "Hey Hillary! Leave those kids alone!" n/t
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
81. Ouch!
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
30. She sounded like his mother
Scolding him on his behavior. Very patronizing and unbecoming, IMHO.
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
31. I sure hope her finger on the button
never has to be used when she doesn't get her way.......
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
33. might as well be "meet me in Puerto Rico", she's done.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
36. Tough talk indeed.
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 01:05 AM by cottonseed
She'll fail to back it up Tuesday.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
37. go, Hillary!
Obama's flyer on Hillary's healthcare plan was pure lies

the fact Obama legitimizes that flyer shows what a sleeze campaign he's running

it was pure trickery and lies

his tactics are disgusting



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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. do you trust factcheck.org?

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/harry_louise_again.html

This site analyzes everything. Yes, Obama's flyer emphasizes some points in his plan and not hers equally. You have to expect that in a campaign flyer. But nothing in it is false. Nothing is a trick or a lie.

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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #37
66. The Clinton 'sorry' campaign..

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET

The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------

Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused. I made unfortunate comments that do not accurately reflect my bipartisan conviction, political philosophy, or most importantly, my opinions about Senator Obama and his historic campaign for the United States presidency."



Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.

Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html


January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”



COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized
for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34


December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail


A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."

"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail.
The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html



Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs



Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance

By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html


Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.

Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

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DUyellow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
38. So True "Hillary has telegraphed her intent to the world and shown her entire hand."
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
40. GO HILLARY!
he hehehehe he he he
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
41. Hillary was trying to command the news cycle until the debate with this new Meme.
Because Obama immediately held a presser and called her out, he changed the whole dynamic. She was prepared to spend Sunday blabbing nonstop once again about being the outraged victim. She'll still try, but she will be faced with his responses, shown to her on tape, as she is asked to respond to them.

Once again, he's proven to be more capable and with a quicker, stronger mind than her.

Hillary is like someone who has to have a day between each chess move, and she's in a game with a master who can outplay her best move in mere minutes.
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. I dunno but I'm sure John McCain...
was glad they tangled on the playground. It knocked some of the attention from him and Vicki off the news and now the front pages....
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Hillary is McCain's new best friend because of that outburst.
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 01:42 AM by TexasObserver
And her bust in New Orleans will be a major topic tomorrow, too.

No one really cares if McCain got a BJ from some 32 year old lobbyist 8 years ago.

Keating Five is his soft underbelly.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
84. hilary was always the bushites'
friend for 5 years in the senate when she promoted their war On Iraq.

And now she's helping out the goperverts again.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. You're on top of the analogies tonight, Tex ! I like this chess one, but I also like
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 01:39 AM by K Gardner
the war analogy.. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4729572&mesg_id=4737676

Banzai !!!!!!!!!! I never knew where that came from before ! :wow:

you know who you remind me of when you ramble on with your historical references? Matthews ! Don't be insulted!

You're much more logical than he is ! :hi:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #43
53. Thanks. But about that one guy ...
Matthews knows some history, but he never knows when to use his stories, and when he does tell them, he goes on too long and says too much.

I met him years ago when he was working for Tip O'Neill, and he wasn't nearly as unctuous.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
45. shrill shrew with no place in the democratic party, correct
:boring: who cares what you think?
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
46. I agree for the most part, Hillary sounded like she was talking to a child
For the most part I agree that Hillary probably won't help herself much with this. I didn't think about her broadcasting her debate plan though to Obama.

When I saw the video on the news my first thought was "Hillary looks like an annoying bitch". Then when she said her "shame on you" remark I thought she sounded like she was talking to Obama as if he was a child.

Still though, attacks like that can hurt Obama a bit in the long run in voters minds. I thought reading Obama's responses to Hillary that he handled them pretty well, especially (I'm not sure if he said it himself or someone in his campaign) saying that the flyer's in question have been in use by the campaign for 23 days already, so it's like they're some new attack Obama is trying against Hillary.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
47. Either she is letting her emotions run this campaign or she is
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 02:38 AM by Blue_Roses
letting the bad advice from her advisers run it. I'm trying to play catch-up here since I tried to stay away from DU, but dammit, I just can't.
Now I've got to read through thread after thread and article after article to find out why Hill was shoving fliers to the wind. Your post has helped me understand what the hell is going on ...thanks:)

Back to my original comment: Emotions vs. bad advice. Hands down my vote is for emotions and believe me, as a woman that is something I really hesitate to post. When I watch her outrage at things she cannot control, I see a person who is desperate. I'm not saying that just because she is a woman she's emotional, it's HER inability to control HER anger and that is not gender defined.

I like Hillary, have defended the Clintons (yes, this is becoming a familiar line here) and I live in Texas and have yet to vote because I keep weighing both. I like Obama too. I liked him from the moment he walked out on the stage to give the key-note address and knew he'd make a great president. So, here I am, watching this from a stage that is front and center, wondering how did we get here. To see Hillary fly off the handle like she did today, not only disappoints me as a Democrat who has defended them, but shows me that she allows her emotions to rule her decisions and speech. The very thing that I fight against as a woman.

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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Strangely enough, after following this story all day, I've almost
decided she was following the advice of Wolfson&Penn, especially after re-reading Wolfson's email to Olbermann just after the debate. But then again, I find it hard to believe she's that good an actor.. then I remember the NH diner. :crazy:

All in all, as another poster pointed out, it all originates with a woman who is not in charge of her own campaign, her own image, her own "voice", her own message. And that is not someone I want running the country. What if she got advise this bad in the White House? Its just not an option for me.

Thanks for a well thought-out post, Blue Roses, and thanks for being on the Front Lines in Texas ! :hi:
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. You know, I think what's going on here is that
some of us feel guilty for not supporting the Clintons. We've done it for so long and now it's like we are stabbing them in the back or cheating on them with this new exciting candidate. In reality, of course that's not the case, however, I do think that comes into play when we talk about our support. With Hill though I'm beginning to see a pattern:emotional outburst/humbleness/emotional outburst/humbleness...

I've watched every debate and at first--while I didn't know who to support--I hoped she would show me that defending them (Bill mainly) was not lost in vain. Now I seriously wonder. It's hard to wake up and see that the person you've supported and defended at your rwing family Thanksgiving dinner is actually showing a side that you've never seen since your glasses have had a rose-tint. I don't want to make this same mistake with Obama, although it's hard since I do think he is the real deal. So I'm watching close. With that said though...

I know where I'm leaning, in fact, I know who I'll vote for and I'm sure it's clear after this post, but I still respect Hillary, especially, after yesterday when the Dallas police officer was killed. I know she was sincerely moved. Still, if I was to vote for someone because I admire them, I'd vote for my mother...:shrug:
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Anger is a bad thing to see in a manager.
Why wasn't that staffer able to tell her that they were running out of money last month? Could it be she was afraid to tell her? If your help is afraid to tell you things, how can you run a business or a White House?

That's a whole second problem with an angry President, besides the obvious "would you want that person's finger on The Button" question.

In my life I've found that people who are able to be oh-so-sweet, I mean really over the top sweet and mild and nice (like Hillary was at times in that last debate) very often have a mean, angry explosive side that comes out behind the scenes. I had a sister-in-law just like this once.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. I've always been told
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 02:34 AM by Blue_Roses
that it's not how you handle adversity, but how adversity handles YOU.

To add to that, I watch the stark contrast of Hillary's outrage and Obama's calm character...the body language speaks for itself.
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DDQ Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
55. Go Hillary !!!!!!!
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
56. ..
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
57. At the risk of being flamed - and I'm sure I will be - this is how Hillary
sealed her fate with her outburst. Think of all the women who have seriously pissed you off in your lifetime. Your mother, a teacher, a wife, an ex, a stepmother, the female boss. In my case it's a stepmother. I heard that voice and it took me back 40 years to the most painful time in my life. Now, I suppose if Obama happens to go snake shit it will remind someone of an abusive husband, nasty boss, mean stepfather, etc., but I don't think he will do that. Hillary's strong suit is her warm and fuzzy side and she stomped the hell out of that yesterday.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. Unfortunately, this is true. I woke up this morning to ABC News pretty much
pronouncing the death knell for her campaign while playing this unfortunate clip. "The sound is the difference between a winning campaign and an also ran.."
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. Her outburst reminded me of my abusive ex-husband
and I felt the same sick feeling in my stomach and outrage as I did when he was going off on me over nothing, out of nowhere.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. Ouch.. sorry Ino. I actually have a hard time watching it too and tend to turn the volume to MUTE
when its played. Its just not Presidential and I imagine reminds a lot of people of things much too close to home that they'd rather forget. :hi: :hug:
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
58. Obama's not doing well in Ohio
Sorry, but its true. He's not going over well here, regardless of the hype.
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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Got anything to back that up, O.D.?
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my3boyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Ignore that poster. They started a thread to bait Obama
supporters. They claim Obama's rally in Cleveland was almost empty.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #59
72. you mean you haven't seen ozark's completely unhinged, hysterical
proclamation thread? Obama's campaign is doomed because only 7,000 people showed up to a rally. What he neglects to tell you up front is that the venue only holds 7,000.

Go look at the Greatest, you'll find it there, and you'll find the comments hysterical. Even his allies are saying he's totally lost it. Hillary would be so proud.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. OMG.. here you are on MY thread ! Got more "Obama's rallys are empty!" lines? Those are my
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 08:46 AM by K Gardner
favorite, OD ! Or, if you don't have any of those, how about a link to back up your flamebait? Or.. how about this..lots of people hating on Obama in Cleveland !

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/caitlinharvey/gGCm23


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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #58
78. Ya...ONE state since super tuesday
and you are announcing it like she is now the nominee. Get over it already.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
68. I stopped reading at the part about two possibilities
Because those are NOT the only two possibilities.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
71. Her campaign has been fatally flawed. Nothing like continually pissing on people's hopes.



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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
73. thnking r.e. your post a bit more, they must b counting on Obama 2 make a "mistake" btwn now & Tues.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Yes. That's really their only hope. Obama has been flawless thus far and its not
too terribly hard to draw distinction between his calm and dignified demeanor and Hillary's ever-changing facade. As long as he stays above the fray, he'll be fine :-)
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
79. Another empty sexist attack on Clinton
:)
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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. get a life, speaking as a woman
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
87. Go, Hillary!
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
88. Kicking for a Bipolar Runup to the Debate.. GOBAMA !
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
89. Kick
:kick:
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