If Hillary Clinton were to run as a third party candidate in 2008, would you vote for her?

[aquarius dawning]

[eileen_d]

1. Why on earth would she? nt

[aquarius dawning]

6. Why should she feel any loyalty towards the Democratic party at this point?

loyalty isn't a one way road. Hillary has been shit on by Democrats. She should return the favor in my opinion.

[babylonsister]

9. Clinton ran a crappy campaign; spin that. nt

[aquarius dawning]

11. Kicked to the curb by her own party is more like it.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

24. Kicked to the curb?

Because she was not allowed to proceed with her coronation..

[Occam Bandage]

36. Do you agree with Lieberman's decision to do the same?

[aquarius dawning]

45. I actually do.

[havocmom]

53. In that case, few here will miss you after the convention, if HRC slits the party's throat

in a rage because she kept shooting herself in the foot.

[aquarius dawning]

61. We were just talking about Liberman there, not Hillary. Lieberman made the right choice.

he made the only choice that he was given and it paid off for him. It was the right choice becasue it was his only choice.

[Changenow]

66. No, he had the option of doing

the honorable thing and keeping his word. But that was impossible for him.

[aquarius dawning]

77. His party kicked him out. He had one option left.

[Occam Bandage]

83. You're right: to step down. He didn't take it, and is slime because of it.

[aquarius dawning]

90. slime? maybe. But I'd rather be a winning piece of slime than a losing piece of...whatever.

[havocmom]

91. 'His' party voted for someone else. Nobody kicked him out.

He refused to accept the will of the people of his party in his state. He pouted and left. NOBODY kicked him out.

[aquarius dawning]

95. what else do you call that if not being kicked out?

give me a break.

[havocmom]

114. Losing an election. Give you a break? How about expect adult behavior?

[havocmom]

88. And if HRC does what Joe did, and you support her at that point

Hasta la vista.

Only choice Joe was given? How about if you run in a primary and the people or your party pick someone else, you ACCEPT their decision? That is a choice Joe had and didn't take.

'... the only choice' my party's ass!

[aquarius dawning]

98. He was raked over the coals by the most liberal/most vocal members of his party

The moderate members of his party obviously had other ideas. He beat you at your own game. Quit crying about it and try learning from it.

[Changenow]

113. His party?

What is that?

[havocmom]

117. Perhaps the: ME ME ME, I'm the boss of everything Party

as opposed to the Democratic Party :shurg:

[havocmom]

116. I am not the one whining, crying and making excuses for lost elections

[Cha]

127. You're a perfect example of

hilary's supporters. Deluded to the max who would probably be more comfortable forming your own little party of hubris. hilary could be your pres and lieman could be the fucking vp.

[Occam Bandage]

62. Wow, a pro-Lieberman jackass. I'll be glad to see you go once O clinches it.

[aquarius dawning]

65. I knew you would say something like that. Tell me than jackoff, what should Lieberman have done?

[Occam Bandage]

69. Listened to CT Democrats, stepped down, and endorsed Lamont. Lieberman is slime.

[aquarius dawning]

81. I'm pretty sure he did listen to the voters of CT actually.

[Occam Bandage]

82. Yeah. The repuke voters. The Dems voted to kick him out of office.

[aquarius dawning]

87. And look how well that worked out for them.

[Occam Bandage]

89. Because Lieberman allied himself with the Repukes, which you support.

[aquarius dawning]

101. That's your opinion. My opinion is different. I say moderate democrats supported him

and the liberalmost democrats that were responsible for his ouster were beaten at their own game and now they're bitter about it.

[Occam Bandage]

106. Lamont won the Democratic vote in CT. Lieberman won the Repuke vote. You support that, apparently.

[aquarius dawning]

107. he won the indipendent vote actuallywhich was just another word for "moderate Democrat vote"

in that instance IMO.

[Changenow]

109. Revisionism.

What you are saying is that the Democratic electorate shouldn't determine the nominee.

Then why run as a Democrat if you don't believe the voters should chose their own candidate? Because it's easier than starting out as a independent?

[Occam Bandage]

111. However, OP is also against open primaries. The mind boggles.

[havocmom]

50. Hey, if HRC and her machine has such a tin ear that they haven't heard the American People

(and last I calculated, that included DEMS) then she isn't being kicked to the curb so much as she just fell so far outta step with what people want that she stumbled and fell. She had some pretty pricey help tripping her up all along the parade route, by the way.

No way did ANYBODY kick her to the curb. She and her machine set a bad course and every 'course correction' they planned was just plain awful.

Kicked her to the curb? No, drunk on ambition and not hearing or seeing the public, she went face down in the mud she hurls.

[aquarius dawning]

55. Bullshit. She has been cast as the anti-democrat by the Obama crowd in their campaign to win

What's more, Bill Clinton's presidency was torn down along the same lines in order to build up Barrack Obama's momentum. He too was kicked to the curb by BO and CO. I talked to teamster yesterday who tried to convince me that Bill and Hillary had had dozens of people murdered in their rise to power. Would you like to try to convince me of that too?

[havocmom]

59. She is NOT popular with many. She showed mean and nasty to other DEMS

Bullshit? Oh, Magoo, you've done it again.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

103. That murder rumor has been going on for years.

How is it Obama's fault?

The sad fact is, that stuff is out there and people believe it. The Clintons are polarizing, and no amount of whining or wishful thinking will change that.

[havocmom]

118. I have NEVER made any charge about murder? WTF is the matter with you?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

99. The party forced her to waste $millions$ on consultants? nt

[havocmom]

42. Rabid HRC fans don't spin it, they WON'T recognize it at all.

More and more, anything that goes wrong is somebody else's fault. Frankly, that excuse is wearing thin when team bush uses it. America is fucking tired of the tactic and HRC's campaign is crappy because they won't/can't recognize that basic fact of life in America today.

[aquarius dawning]

64. Her campaign was fine. She was kicked to the curb by members of her own party.

[Changenow]

73. You think she shouldn't have

opposition?

[aquarius dawning]

76. I think lines were crossed and when lines are crossed, there are frequently implications

[Changenow]

86. Comparing the Democratic frontrunner to the

worst Republican president ever crosses a line.

Unlike most here, I have little doubt that if there is even a 1 in 10 chance, she'll run as an independent. Lanny Davis floated the idea and her bitter statements about the Democratic Party yesterday set the stage.

This has never been about ideology to her, just the quest for power. Not very different from Lieberman.

[aquarius dawning]

94. Tearing down Bill Clinton's presidency to build up Barack Obama's crossed the line first.

and it's about more than her at this point. She has supporters who are just as committed to her as BO's supporters are to him. Not all of us are buying into the BO MO.

[Changenow]

96. For instance?

What about Clinton's Presidency was torn down?

[aquarius dawning]

104. You'll have to look through the threads for yourself honey.

I have business to attend to and will be departing this dialectic shortly.

[Changenow]

108. So you don't have an example

If she does this, it will because she didn't expect real opposition and is furious that what she believed was rightly hers is gone. It is true she didn't get Democratic support, but she didn't earn it. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if she did anything possible to prevent Obama's election.

[havocmom]

92. Obviously, her campaign was NOT fine.

Making excuses for poor performance is not leadership.

[aquarius dawning]

105. It isn't excuse making. it's reality.IF BO had been white, she would be winning right now.

[Changenow]

112. Now you're just making shit up

but your bizarre thought process is shared by many.

[havocmom]

115. Excuses. Not exceptable.

edited cuz it's hard to type when laughing this hard. :rofl:

[liberalnurse]

14. You really lack insight to the Democratic Party.

That is an ignorant comment. Her husband was our last, 2-term Democratic President. Please get a grip on the loose thoughts.

You insult all Democrats.

[aquarius dawning]

17. It's just a fucking poll. Get over yourself.

[liberalnurse]

25. Stop with the Fucking please.

Not respectable to DU peers.

[havocmom]

54. That reads like Limbaugh sounds. Cry 'only kidding/it's a joke' when taken to task

Get fucking responsible for what you post when it is flame-bait drivel. Play with matches? Don't whine when ya get burned.

[Changenow]

26. She may certainly justify her

run with this very rationalization. Lieberman used similar reasoning.

[Orangepeel]

37. Lieberman's career would have been over after he lost the primary. He had nothing to lose

And, there was a possibility that Lieberman could win a third party run for senate. Polls showed that he was very popular with independents in Connecticut and he was the incumbant.

Not only could Clinton not win a third party run for president, it would jepardize her senate career. Even if it made sense based on her character (I don't believe it does), it wouldn't make sense from the perspective of doing what is best for her.

[bigbrother05]

122. She could rely on her Jomentum to carry her to the WH.

:rofl:

[Cha]

126. You are blinded by hilary shit...isn't

it stinking up your persona by now?

[Changenow]

16. Lanny Davis compared her campaign to

Lieberman's this week. I think they are seriously considering it, but I'm not sure it would work.

[thoughtcrime1984]

2. If she ran as a 3rd party, McCain would be President

I hope you realize that. She would not do that, I am pretty certain.

[havocmom]

57. And the, the radio would be 'Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran' 24/7

Kiss the generation of Americans just coming of age goodbye, cuz they would get tossed into the Military Industrial Complex machine that turns blood to gold.

[Faygo Kid]

3. Never happen.

No way.

[book_worm]

4. why are you even posing this question? she's not going to run as an independent

and neither is Obama.

[aquarius dawning]

20. I could definitely see Obama running as a third party if he lost.

[Changenow]

31. Above you suggest Hillary should

run as an independent because the party wronged her.

Why do you think Obama would run? I don't think he would, he has never suggested anything close.

[aquarius dawning]

38. His supporters would insist.

I suspect it will get ugly one way or the other but, there's no doubt, things will get real ugly if Obama loses this primary nomination. His supporters have way too much invested in him.

[Changenow]

56. Interesting projection. nt

[liberalnurse]

68. You have been here 14 days now.

I can't wait to see the chaos you instigate on day 15.

[aquarius dawning]

71. I live for instigating chaos.

It's like my morning cup of coffee.

[liberalnurse]

80. Now that is an honest comment.

I'll give you credit for that.O8)

[havocmom]

119. A little after coffee gift for ya

[Orangepeel]

39. your vision is cloudy

Why would he?

I'll say the same thing I said about Clinton in another post. Even if it made sense based on his character (e.g., someone who would throw the race to McCain because he didn't get his way), which it doesn't, it doesn't make sense based on what would be best for him. In the event he loses the nomination, he can go back to the Senate. Why would he wreck both his Senate career and his chances to run again?

[aquarius dawning]

43. because his ego would tell him that he had a chance of winning.

and, frankly, he might actually be right. I think if any third party candidate ever had a chance, it would be first BO and then HRC. Furthermore, the indipendent party has grown substantially once again. There is a large segment of America that is damn sick and tired of having to choose between ultra-liberal and ultra-conservative.

[thoughtcrime1984]

52. Bullshit

He would return to the Senate and have a successful political career, perhaps running for the Presidency again in the future- as a DEMOCRAT!

[MH1]

78. Obama would not do that, however, in that case Bloomberg might.

[UALRBSofL]

97. aquarius, I did read an article some time back

That if Obama wasn't the nominee he would run third party with Bloomberg.

[beyurslf]

5. I would vote for the Dem nominee. And Hillary Clinton will also support and vote for the Dem

nominee, even if it is not her.

[terrya]

7. She wouldn't run as a third party candidate.

That's patently absurd.

[rodeodance]

72. there is a thread out there saying she would form 4th party--the silly season for Obama folk is in

full swing

[chascarrillo]

74. The OP is a Clinton supporter in case you missed it. nt

[rodeodance]

84. no, i did not miss that--merely making an observation.

[Debi]

8. Who would be such an asshole as to run as an Independent after losing a Democratic primary?

Oh, that's right x(

[rodeodance]

10. Oh for heaven's sake --what a silly question!!

[aquarius dawning]

12. I've seen sillier here.

[PeaceNikki]

13. Hey, if Mars attacked, would you fight them with lightsabers or call Superman?

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/03/23/superman23306_narrowweb__300x423,0.jpg

[Larry in KC]

121. Let's not be ridiculous. Superman, of course.

[scheming daemons]

15. Hillary Rodham Lieberman?

Is that what she wants her legacy to be?

[WinkyDink]

18. What a STUPID QUESTION. She WOULDN'T.

[MikeNearMcChord]

19. Since we all know she won't

I think we just identified six Nader Voters at least when I posted.

[Changenow]

23. Don't bet the farm

She is pretty angry, judging from her behaviour yesterday. It was as if she was explaining the Democratic Party wasn't what it should be, so she owes it nothing.

[MikeNearMcChord]

47. She would risk the same fate that happened to

Theodore Roosevelt who split the Republicans in 1912 and gave Woodrow Wilson the presidency. The GOP never forgave Teddy and cut him off.

[Changenow]

58. Today's Democratic Party

is pretty fractured anyway. The DLC types don't have much use for the liberal base, a Clinton loss will isolate them more, so from their perspective it's no lose.

[TheUniverse]

21. No I couldn't even guarantee I'd vote for her if she won the general.

[DFW]

22. No, I will vote for the party nominee, BUT:

The question is from Fantasyland.


She will back Obama, if he is the nominee, and do so enthusiatically.
She would then shoot for Majority Leader in the Senate, and probably get
the post, and would work well with a President Obama, especially if he
doesn't pick a total disaster for VP. Obama is not my first choice, but
I do trust him (until proven wrong) to make a sensible choice for VP, if
nominated.

[HooptieWagon]

27. She wouldn't be that stupid

although she may be that spiteful and feel that entitled, so who knows. What is known is that she badly mismanaged her campaign despite Dem backing - it's easy to imagine a third party campaign would be a disorganized mess and drastically underfunded, a real joke. Is that what she wants her legacy to be?

[Changenow]

28. Denial ain't just a river...

one would have thought comparing Obama to President Bush was beneath her, but she didn't flinch.

[OHdem10]

29. Yes, In a NY minute. However, she will not.

There are those who really do believe the Media has put Obama
ahead and we must take him or nothing.

The way the Media has treated Hilary is downright frightful.
What kind of Democracy do we have when the Media decides as
Tim Russert said this morning....He implied that no one should
get in the way of Obama because he is black.

[Changenow]

33. Please provide a link

to that, I missed it. All of the efforts to make this campaign about race so far have come from one side.

[Orangepeel]

30. Any Clinton supporter who thinks that she would has no clue who they are supporting

If and when she loses the nomination, she will campaign for Obama and then continue making the most of her Senate career.

on edit: and any non-Clinton supporter who thinks that she would has no idea who she is, either. I'm supporting Obama, but even if I didn't also like Clinton (which I do), I wouldn't let that delude me into thinking she's either disloyal or stupid enough to run a third party campaign for president.

[stahbrett]

32. She's make Ralph Nader look popular in comparison

Her ~50% negative rating would increase dramatically as well - she may have to run with Zell Miller to find someone despised more.

[skipos]

34. Hillary has done many dumb things, but even she wouldn't do something that dumb.

The DU obsession with 3rd party runs gets reallly silly around here.

[aquarius dawning]

40. How gracious and diplomatic of you to say so.

[skipos]

46. There is nothing gracious about it

It is a fact: she isn't a total idiot, she is just running an awful campaign. Her consultants are killing her, but I am 100% sure she wouldn't listen to them if they advocated a 3rd party run.

[Cameron27]

35. She would never do that,

she'd never even consider doing that.

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. Didn't you hear her yesterday at the State of the Black Union Conference?

She emphatically said Democrats must pull in together behind whoever our nominee in. She would never consider this and she has ALWAYS been clear that she will urge all of her supporters to back our nominee.

[aquarius dawning]

44. That's fine; however, I and many of my democratic friends will be writing her name in regardless.

[MrsT]

51. Then you are not very intelligent

and you should go find another board to pollute.

[Changenow]

60. She sang a very divisive song

in Cincinnati.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

48. Obama is the 3rd Party..."The Movement" and the GOP thanks you for your support!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

49. Of Course Not.

[Uzybone]

63. Unless the Democratic Party

is no longer the majority left leaning party in the country, I will always vote for the Dem nominee. All 3rd party candidates Ive seen in my lifetime are scabs.

[aquarius dawning]

75. Ross Perot was the right man for the time. I voted for him because I knew he was right about NAFTA

For his astute observations regarding that piece of legislation, he was excoriated by Democrats, the very same Democrats who now use it as a cudgel with which to beat up on HIllary.

[saltpoint]

67. No.

[Moochy]

70. Silly, wont happen

She's got a heck of a backup job as a good senator from NY. (damning her with faint praise? hopefully not.)

[MH1]

79. Current troll count = 12.

[aquarius dawning]

85. I'm sorry, I've been away for a while. Is it group think time again already?

[MH1]

93. Nope, this is still DEMOCRATIC Underground.

The rules still say that Democratic Party candidates are supported here, and one may not advocate for third party candidates here.

Yes your op is a hypothetical but the option that 12 people voted for would make them trolls under DU rules, at least if they advocated for that.

If you are suggesting that Hillary SHOULD run as an independent if she loses the Dem nomination, that is probably against DU rules, too.

[DURHAM D]

100. Hillary will not run third party.

However, there is a strong chance of a split in the party over the next several years driven by the homophobia, ageism and sexism by the obvious non-Democratic views of many new so-called Dems. If Obama wins the nomination and loses the general the time frame will speed up. This split will in no way be embraced by the Clintons. The Clintons will work hard to keep the party together but I do not believe they can succeed.

[Barack_America]

102. Looks like Nader's already got himself 16 votes!

Good for you!

:sarcasm:

[marlakay]

110. Hillary would no more do that than Gore

her husband is a past dem president and it would look bad very very bad. She would get some votes enough to hand it over to the repubs and people would be so pissed she would lose her senate seat. Bad idea!

[NoPasaran]

120. Only if she buys me a pony

And I want it upfront. None of that "wait 'til November 5th" chinmusic.

[calico1]

123. None of the above..

She's not going to run as a third party candidate.

[BeyondGeography]

124. Don't be insane...her only friends in the world are in the Democratic Party

Once she's out there facing independents and Republicans, it gets awful lonely for her.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

125. She wouldn't...no...and what a Fucking Stupid Question.