The Nader Equation or “how the NEOCONS win the Whitehouse again”

[SnoopDog]

Not so funny thing about all this. Nader ran in 2000 and siphoned off votes from Gore. Yes, 2000 was stolen but an important component of stealing elections are to make them close.

2004 – why did Nader not run? My answer is, according to their plan, why should he…

Our country is in deep peril. Why on earth would ANYBODY jeopardize the chance for a Democrat to win? Why is Nader doing this? Why does Nader run for Congress first?

In my humble opinion, the answers are this: Nader is a Neocon. I don’t know this for sure but just look at what he is doing. In November, Nader will get just enough votes to once again make the election close. The rigged machines take over and McCain is the President.

This really sucks. A McCain neocon presidency will see America fall into complete ruin.

[scheming daemons]

1. Nader has no influence anymore... 0.38% last time......

...that's Lyndon Larouche level.

[Stuckinthebush]

3. Was it really that low?

Damn. That sucks.

I wonder what the state by state breakdown was (I'm sure I could find it but still waking up).

[Window]

6. ..

[metisnation]

2. Other way around

Is how the democrats lose again because they forget that it is about issues. Nader represents issues, not good looks.

[TommyO]

7. Which issues has Ralphy seriously addressed in the past eight years?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Can't Wait To See Your Tombstone. Keep At It Pal.

[whistle]

4. Follow the money especially with Ralph Nader

[WinkyDink]

5. If it walks like a duck....As soon as he hit Florida in 2000, I knew what Nader was.

He loves to find fault with Democrats.

What criticism has he leveled at Bush in the last 7+ years? Did he march against the Illegal Invasion, e.g.?

Nader = Republican.

[gravity]

8. Nader has no support anymore

In 2000, his campaign was based on the premise that there weren't any major differences between the two parties. 8 years of Bush proved him wrong.

[mtnester]

9. He will be lucky to get enough siggies to be on ballots n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Snoopdog; Nader ran in 2004. You must have missed it.

I find it rather hilarious that Nader scares the crap out of you.

Pat Buchanan ran in 2000. If he wasn't on the ballot, all those votes on the butterfly ballot from Palm Beach would have gone to Gore.

Are you equally terrified of another Buchanan run?

The Socialist Workers Party candidate received thousands of votes in Florida in 2000 (and probably will again in 2008. In fact I bet they get more votes than Nader this year) Are you terrified of them as well?

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but your need to have a scape goat to blame is pathetic.

I have my own issues with Nader, but they aren't the same issues you have.

I suppose you believe it's horrible that we live in a country where anyone except those with a (D) after their name are allowed to run for election. I'm glad we live in such a country. I see it as a great strength not as a major problem to be feared and terrified about.

It's time to repudiate the politics of fear. I'm not sure if you are capable of that task, however.

[SnoopDog]

13. My bad - I did not know he ran in 2004

No offense but I still will like him to sit this one out - America needs a Dem in office...

And no offense again, but please try not to insult the Snoop - it makes you look bad...

[casus belli]

18. Neither did anyone else....

as evidenced by his .38% of the vote.

He becomes less and less relelvant with each cycle. If he were smart, he'd just disappear rather than make himself the joke that keeps on giving.

[rainy]

12. maybe we need to hit rock bottom before we wake this damned world up

Nader has always been a defender of the people against the corporate power. The corporations own our government and that is what he is trying to put an end to. We the people should have the same goals in mind. Nader has a right to run. Our job is to beat him. But, of course we have to go against our own philosophy to do so. We all know Nader's beliefs are closest to ours but because of the screwed up system that we have now we have to vote for the best the Democratic party can offer. Party before country. If we were to demand runoff voting we could see more issues debated. Why haven't we demanded a change in voting methods to make it easier for third parties?
We allow all this shit to happen to us because we do nothing. If Nader or people like him could get equal air time and we had instant runoff voting the world would be a much better place.

[mirrera]

14. Nader is an American Hero regardless of our broken two party system...

Gore won in FLA, if he had won ARK and TENN he would have won handily. I used to blame Nader for the faults of the Democrats, but after watching a documentary on him, I am ashamed of my ignorance. Watch "An inconvenient Man" then see how you feel. He will not hurt Obama or Hillary in this election. He will give the people who would have voted for Kucinich or stayed home someone to vote for. Maybe he will push the conversation in a direction that the majority of Americans want. Single payer health care, a voice for the Israeli peace movement and the Palestinian civilians, the corporate take over of Washington, etc. BUT with all his genius I do not understand why he hasn't fought for Instant Runoff Voting. If we had a 1st 2nd and 3rd choice, he would have one of my votes.

The Democrats will win in a landslide this election whether he runs or not. Or I should say, the Republicans will lose in a landslide.

[rainy]

16. Thanks for your post. I agree! We need to fix voting in many directions.

First fix the machines, second change campaign financing and third have instant runoff voting.

[mirrera]

17. Exactly! My letter to the Campaign:

To Whom it may concern:

I just finished watching the Documentary "An Inconvenient Man" and the special features disc. I am just stunned that with all the collected wisdom about the broken two party system, not ONE mention was made of Instant Runoff Voting. There was all this talk about how other countries manage to have more than two parties, yet the only way for it to work in our system, is State by State to change our voting method to one of choice.

Nader's people have so much experience with advocacy. They will expend so much energy to get on a ballot in 50 states— knowing that our system is currently designed to be 2 party. They are fully aware that the 3rd party just chips away with no chance of winning and they are forced to be satisfied with the crumbs of simply influencing the conversation. Would not that energy be better spent going State to State for IRV? Would not the conversation be MORE influenced if a Candidate had to fight to be my second choice?

If I had a 1st 2nd and 3rd choice Ralph Nader would get my vote and MILLIONS more. Would it not be more powerful?

Doing it this way is so backwards. First put in place the mechanism to allow a voter to be, in Ralph's words, "a citizen as opposed to a politician".

The way Ralph is doing this is not asking us to be a citizen, but to be politically stupid.

If anyone could change the system, Ralph could. He could use the bully pulpit of "not running until... Instant Runoff Voting allows my supporters to show their support in a way that will not hurt them politically"

Please Ralph look into this idea. Put your marvelous intellect on it and truly help us.

Maria

[rainy]

20. I agree!! thanks. nt

[polichick]

15. Any Dem who votes for Nader this time around is a fool. nt

[SnoopDog]

19. Maybe I was alittle harsh with my post...

I really do not have any problem with third parties or Nader- it may be a very democratically healthy...

But I will stand by two of my points.

1. Nader should run for Congress to prove his intentions - he would probably win and I woud vote for him as my Congressman if that was the case.

2. I really think he should not run this year. We need no distractions. Kucinich and Edwards brought out many of the issues and solutions we need to focus on.

Once again apologies for my harsh post - just struck a nerve this morning that we need no distractions for this November...