I think Nader is Obama's nemesis.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

Hillary nows stands a MUCH bigger chance of convincing her party that SHE's a far more viable candidate against both McCain and Nader versus Obama since most of the same voters (the Ben and Jerry peeps)who would vote for Obama would also go Nader, while folks who go for Hillary aren't so likely to go for Nader in a three way race anyway, and even if Obama clinches the nomination, Nader would steals votes away from him and pave the way for a McCain presidency.

Poor Obama!

anyone watch him this morning....He just took Obama to task on his soft record on the war.

[polichick]

1. I can't see us "delusional" Obama supporters giving up the kool-aid now.

[Tarc]

18. Same kool-aid, different glass

[saltpoint]

2. You wish.

Obama's campaign offers the freshness of independent voting within the mechanism of the historical political entity, replete with a 50-state support system, plus the headlines into History of a paradigm shift in U.S. electoral politics.

Nader did nada in 04 and will do even less in 08.

[Catch22Dem]

3. Jesus, how much credit are you giving Nader?

This isn't 2000. In 04 he got less than 1/2 percent of the vote. I think we'll be OK.

ON EDIT: And just how viable is Hillary if she can't win any primaries?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. keyword is "OPEN" primary....which is the only kind Obama can win with his 1 time rethug voters

[Catch22Dem]

8. Well, there's rock fucking solid logic I can't ignore!

:rofl:

[book_worm]

9. he's won closed primaries too

and he hasn't won due to rethug voters, so stop being dishonest. Here in WI he won across the board including Democratic voters. How long has it been since Hillary won anywhere?

[Warren Stupidity]

35. hush

and please don't bring up NH and NJ where Clinton won in an semi-open primaries.

[Occam Bandage]

47. More of them than Hillary.

[NOLALady]

58. Louisiana had a closed primary.

[tammywammy]

63. But Louisiana has too many blacks

That's why Obama won there, that's why Louisiana doesn't count.

[NOLALady]

64. Silly me.

How could I forget a little thing like that? }(

[liberalnurse]

4. If Obama gets the Democratic Nomination

it will seriously affect his betting edge for sure.

But, Hillary will get the Democratic Nomination, so I'm not concerned at this point. O8)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

10. agreed

[Tellurian]

40. Yes, the addition of Nader has tipped the balance away from Obama...

[NOLALady]

5. Poor Obama?

It would poor US if McCain wins the presidency.

[bellasgrams]

36. I don't think McCain could be much worse than BO. He just

doesn't have the know-how. His inexperience really leaves us with some scary unknowns. Who is his Dick Cheney going to be?

[book_worm]

7. No, Nader is Harold Stassen

and for those too young to know who Stassen was he was a perennial candidate for president who evolved into a joke. At one time he was a prominent republican governor and made a serious bid for president but kept coming back every four years like clock work and did worse each time over the last.

[Emit]

11. You mean, you hope? n/t

[gravity]

12. Hillary isn't doing that good of a job convincing the party now

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. True Democrats know that Hillary's base is much more solid than Obama's......

Obama does better with Independent voters than Hillary, however as we saw in New Hampshire he can't rely on them for the GE. And then you add Nader into the mix and that will really split votes for Obama come November. Registered Democrats in all polls have repeatedly favored Hillary over Obama.

[gravity]

24. True Democrats support Obama too

[saltpoint]

26. This true Democrat disagrees.

Quite a few true Democrats in Wisconsin agreed last Tuesday as well.

[bellasgrams]

39. Hillary is having problems because many of the people voting

for BO are youngsters that are new to politics and havn't learnd from experience that experience is very important. Much more important than 'feel-good' words. That and many older voters that have never voted nor paid attention to politics see him as their poster boy.

[NOLALady]

59. As well as many middle aged voters

who are tired of supporting the rich mans wars.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. Ummm, if Obama voters would go to Nader, then why would we want Clinton?

Your argument doesn't compute. With Clinton as the nom, those voters would definitely go to Nader, if your logic holds.

[gravity]

14. Because Obama supporters are apparently that delusional

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. The same people who are'nt supporting Hillary now are not necessarily going to support her in Nov...

The only person who will be hurt by Nader is Obama. Nader does'nt cut into the traditional Democratic base, he cuts into Obama's which are Independents and the left fringe AND the "latte drinking, Prius driving crowd" that have so far been enamored of Obama.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. I still don't get it.

The traditional Democratic base is not enough to get Clinton elected. With Nader in the race it would seem to hurt her more because he would attract some of the voters that would vote for Obama.

[nookiemonster]

31. Are you just hateful, or just striving to be the center of attention?

snip

"he cuts into Obama's which are Independents and the left fringe AND the "latte drinking, Prius driving crowd" that have so far been enamored of Obama."

I've come to expect this vitriol from you, along with your broad brushed assumptions. You're becoming so transparent.

[cali]

15. Let's rewrite that subject line: You WISH that Nader would be

Obama's nemesis because you're so desperate about hilly losing. Sorry, Nader is irrelevant. Most voters will remain unaware that he's even thrown his tattered hat into the ring. Obama will dispatch Nader with ease. Look what he's done to poor old hilly.

The fact is that in a general, us ben & jerry voters are going to go with Obama. I'm from Vermont, and I know ben & jerry voters. If by some miracle, hilly got the nomination, they might opt to vote for Nader. Obama is a much more palatable candidate for them.

So sorry you're bound to be even more bitterly disappointed than you already are. It's just a real shame.

[redstate_democrat]

51. LOL!

Hilarious. All Obama would have to say is, "Remember 2000? This man (Nadar) gave you eight hellish years of Bush."

End. of. Story.

[Orangepeel]

16. oooo....kay

good luck using the argument that because the far left wing dislikes Clinton as much as the far right wing does, that makes Nader less of a threat to her.

If Clinton can make that work for her, more power to her.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. Look at the polls in the states that Obama has won.......

It was the Independents...not the Democrats who tipped the scale for Obama in Wisconsin.

[Orangepeel]

27. Oh, I know that independents prefer Obama

but that doesn't make HIM more vulnerable to a Nader run. Nader voters are most likely to be anti-war voters and Clinton is much more vulnerable on that score.

But like I said, if Clinton can convince people that Nader's entrance is a reason to vote for her in the primaries, more power to her. Personally, I'd be impressed with her persuasive skills.

[bigbrother05]

29. So you're saying a Clinton nomination moves the Indies to Nader

Therefore you want us to back the candidate that will guarantee a McCain win with Nader in the race?

Your arguments/analysis seem to support Obama as the one to blunt the Nader effect.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. nice try but you fail

[redstate_democrat]

53. lol

Hey, Einstein, you have this whole logic thing totally fucked. If Hillary is the nominee and she goes AGAINST a Nadar, she (and thus the Democratic party) totally looses the young crowd, the anti-war crowd, the anti-DLC crowd, the anti-Clinton crowd (as if she would ever get these voters, anyway), the anti-dynasty crowd, the Clinton-fatigue crowd, black folks who are still pissed at the Clintons and those who will feel disenfranchised by the obvious thievery of the primary election (if she gets in with MI, FL and superdelegates), the Independents will do a switch hitter and split between McCain and "sit the fuck at home", and we will all get in a time machine and head back to the year 2000 and get royally fucked up the ass once again while McCain, Rove, the RNC, and Rush/Hannity/Coulter/etc, laugh all the way to the bank on the backs of hard working Americans. Then get ready for a nuclear war. Hmm, I think I better stick with Barack Hussesin fucking Obama. Thanks anyway.

[bigbrother05]

20. Most folks that remember 2000 think Nader along with the SCOTUS gave us W

The new folks that Obama has brought into the electorate don't know/care who Nader is. The so called "Ben and Jerry" peeps are far less likely to dismiss the need to put a Dem back in the WH this time. Nader is just on an ego trip and will be a non-starter for anyone currently backing Obama and will be viewed as the devil incarnate by those backing Clinton.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

28. again .... Look at the polls in the states that Obama has won......

It was the Independents...not the Democrats who tipped the scale for Obama in Wisconsin.

[gravity]

30. You are assuming

that not all of Hillary's supporters will vote for Obama, and most of the independent voters that supported Obama would vote for Nader. Not to mention that assuming that indepedents will go for Nader in no way helps out Hillary in the general election.

[bigbrother05]

33. BTW when a German touches his head like that, he thinks you're crazy

[stillrockin]

21. Um, computer says no.

[bigbrother05]

25. Spoken like a real laadiee

[Binka]

56. Yeah But No But Yeah But

Walliams / Lucas in 2008.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. You think too much

of Nader and his influence. Hillary has run out of time to convince enough people of anything to alter the outcome. She knows it, deep inside you know it.

[Rowdyboy]

37. Ralph Nader is totally irrelevent in 2008...Vote for who you prefer, it doesn't matter

Either Obama or Clinton will beat McCain. Nader's support this time is immaterial.

[saltpoint]

38. Agree.

[dajoki]

45. I hope that you are correct!! n/t

[OzarkDem]

41. They both attract political impulse buyers

people who fall easily for rhetoric and who don't look deeply at the issues.

[Inuca]

42. Some of the posts around here

started to have a surreal quality that is almost scary.

PS: at this point, Nader is LESS than irrelevant.

[ProSense]

43. "surreal quality" or

"Utter desperation"

[mohc]

44. Your argument better supports Nader being Clinton's nemisis

Let's just assume that Obama supporters are more likely to support Nader than Clinton supporters. If Clinton wins the nomination, the main group she will need to draw support from in the general election will not be independents, Republicans, or even new voters, but Obama supporters. No doubt most of Obama supporters will move to Clinton, but some will go to Nader. Similarly, Obama will need to draw support from former Clinton backers, and based on your assumption, they will be less likely than Obama supporters would be to support Nader so Obama should have an easier time uniting the party. Despite what we see said in the forums here on DU, most of the voters in the Democratic primaries are not going to have any trouble voting for the eventual nominee regardless of who it is. After factoring out the tactical Republican voters, and some of the new voters and independents that would only support Obama, the rest are loyal Democrats.

[Fleurs du Mal]

46. Obama the neo-colonialist

How hard is it to call Obama on his martial winks? HRC is at least out of the closet about it.

[Mr.Fitzgibbons]

48. I have a hard time believing that Nader would pose a threat to Obama

I mean, would anyone still vote for Nader after the 2000 election? Maybe I don't know the numbers, but this seems unlikely.

[Occam Bandage]

49. So, er, Obama has greater support among those who would otherwise vote Nader,

meaning Obama loses fewer votes to Nader than Clinton does...and that means that Nader will hurt Obama more? Excuse me?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

60. take your time....think it through.....you figure it out

[Occam Bandage]

65. I understand where you're going, it's just backwards.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

67. hahha you're so cute

[JimGinPA]

50. It's Almost Sad To See How Far Hillary Supporters Will Reach...

To attempt to build up their weak candidate.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

66. You had better wear a helmet my friend

[michaz]

52. Thanks, I needed a good laugh today! n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

54. Ralph doesn't have the same "cachet" as he once did.

I don't think he needs to be feared.

[dcindian]

55. How much more delusional of a stance could you take?

I am sorry I just can't see it. Is there anything at all to help prove such a delusional stance?

I see a distastefully pure joy of Nader's announcement of running from the Hillary crowd here.

[Barack_America]

57. Have you been huffing?

Obama is "soft" on the war and this makes Hillary the stronger candidate? Yeah, I'm sure that Nader would let her IWR and Kyle-Lieberman votes slide.

:rofl:

[blogslut]

61. Ralph Nader?

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

:toast: :party: :toast:

hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

:beer:

hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

:beer:

hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhaahahahahahahahahha...ha...ha..ha

:beer: :toast: :beer:

ha..ha

:boring:

[Forkboy]

62. LMAO....the logic train is waiting at the station. Try to catch it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

70. LOL and is that an engineers cap I see on your head?

[tritsofme]

68. Nader is irrelevant. He got 0.38% of the vote in 2004.

Non-issue.

[mythyc]

69. Nader is a non-issue, period.

mark my words--> Obama will defeat McCain by 10 times the amount of votes Nader gets.

[quantass]

71. Correction: Nader is 0.38% of Obama's nemesis.