Obama supporters only. HRC supporters don't have the guts to read this op-ed in its entirety

[ORDem]

Frank Rich nails it, absolutely nails it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/opinion/24rich.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

... Senator Clinton then compounded that 2002 misjudgment by pursuing a 2008 campaign strategy that uncannily mimicked the disastrous Bush Iraq war plan. After promising a cakewalk to the nomination — “It will be me,” Mrs. Clinton told Katie Couric in November — she was routed by an insurgency.

The Clinton camp was certain that its moneyed arsenal of political shock-and-awe would take out Barack Hussein Obama in a flash. The race would “be over by Feb. 5,” Mrs. Clinton assured George Stephanopoulos just before New Year’s.

... Clinton fans don’t see their standard-bearer’s troubles this way. In their view, their highly substantive candidate was unfairly undone by a lightweight showboat who got a free ride from an often misogynist press and from naïve young people who lap up messianic language as if it were Jim Jones’s Kool-Aid. Or as Mrs. Clinton frames it, Senator Obama is all about empty words while she is all about action and hard work.

But it’s the Clinton strategists, not the Obama voters, who drank the Kool-Aid. The Obama campaign is not a vaporous cult; it’s a lean and mean political machine that gets the job done. The Clinton camp has been the slacker in this race, more words than action, and its candidate’s message, for all its purported high-mindedness, was and is self-immolating.

... In the last battleground, Wisconsin, the Clinton campaign was six days behind Mr. Obama in putting up ads and had only four campaign offices to his 11. Even as Mrs. Clinton clings to her latest firewall — the March 4 contests — she is still being outhustled.

... This is the candidate who keeps telling us she’s so competent that she’ll be ready to govern from Day 1. Mrs. Clinton may be right that Mr. Obama has a thin résumé, but her disheveled campaign keeps reminding us that the biggest item on her thicker résumé is the health care task force that was as botched as her presidential bid.

:dem:

[writes3000]

1. Obama Supporter Here - I think your calling out of Clinton Supporters sucks.

PS - This has already been posted here SEVERAL times. Do a search next time.

Sorry for the pissy tone but I'm sick of the antagonistic taunting here.

[ORDem]

7. Welcome to DU! n/t

[writes3000]

10. Thanks for the welcome. n/t

[ORDem]

16. Unlike HRC's tone I guess???

Interesting that no one is refuting Rich's article on substance. It's all about how you don't like my title or that it's been posted before (like that never happens here).

:dem:

[Zodiak]

22. I'll second that

"Clinton supporters won't have the guts to read" is a really antagonistic tone, and it underscores the fact that the OP assumes they are all gutless, which cannot be true.

Do people realize when they sound like children in a school-yard? Does that make them cool? Superior?

I really do not see where this mentality comes from, but it is rampant.

[guruoo]

39. Clinton asked "why did you do this? ...

"Gingrich smiled, looking him right in the eye, and said
"Because we can".

[emilyg]

40. Welcome to DU and thank you.

[cbayer]

43. Thank you for standing up. nt.

[babylonsister]

2. That's been posted several times on DU since last night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4736813

And yes, Rich is spot on!

[Trajan]

3. I dont understand the need to taunt fellow DUers ...

this needling, 'up-yours' tone seems so adolescent ....

[Cha]

24. Yeah, hilary surrogates have been so

rational and always defending her positions and never attacking Obama and his supporters(cultish!?) with vile bitterness. We need to just let ourselves be stomped on.

Or in my case..just put 'em on Ignore.

[Trajan]

35. So .... you choose the LEAST and WORST example ....

As your guide for your own behavior ?

I would think one would want to be better than the worst ....

[Cha]

42. Don't try and turn this around trajan..

There's no excusing them and I enjoy DU much better without the bitterness.

[Trajan]

52. Nonsense ....

This is a Tu Quoque fallacy .... 'Me Too' ...

As long as someone is being vile and ugly, then vile and ugly is ok ... Is that how it goes ?

Vile and ugly are NOT negative characteristics as long as someone else is vile and ugly first ? ...

Surely you see the folly of this argument .... It is a road to the bottom .... The worst becomes the standard ...

Absolutely fallacious ...

BTW: ... I support BOTH Clinton and Obama, and frankly, I see little difference between the WORST of their supporters ...

Imagine that ....

[BuyingThyme]

4. She thought she could give the finger to the left before running further to the right.

But we decided to give her the finger right back.

:P

[IndyOp]

5. Obama supporter here -> Your violent words toward Clinton supporters are UNAPPRECIATED.

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it...

Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate....

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Dr. Martin Luther King

[BuyingThyme]

8. What violence are you referring to?

Or are you just lying shamelessly like Hillary?

[IndyOp]

11. BuyThyme - If we Obama supporters don't call hateful speech what it is, then

we will all be presumed to be "Hillary haters" and I believe it is time to get way past the personal attacks.

I consider this a "violently worded" statement about Clinton supporters ->
"HRC supporters don't have the guts to read this op-ed in its entirety"

I consider this a "violently worded" statement about Clinton ->
"Or are you just lying shamelessly like Hillary?"

This sort of speech will only harm us (the citizens) and our candidate (Obama) in the end...

In November, are you hoping that people who voted for Clinton in the primary, will vote for Obama in the general? If so, then please stop with the insults and demand that other people stop, too.

[BuyingThyme]

15. I think you're violently silly.

[writes3000]

19. "Violent" might not be my choice of words either

But I do agree with the point that Obama supporters do not need to gloat, taunt or antagonize - especially not if we want the party to be as strong as it needs to be in the fall.

Being kind isn't being weak.

[BuyingThyme]

But didn't the latest round start with Hillary's

decision to taunt and antagonize Obama and company?

[IndyOp]

28. I, personally, don't care who started it - I care that we each take responsibility

to stop it by refusing to feed it.

[BuyingThyme]

32. But I'm enjoying it very very much.

[IndyOp]

36. I thought so.

But this isn't a Three Stooges pie fight in which everyone winds up laughing.

The consequences are that people are insulted and hurt. We lose good people from DU. And, in the real world, people who feel that a candidate has been attacked, bashed, the subject of verbal violence online are more inclined to vote for that person in the primary or to not vote at all in the General Election. One reason I support Obama is because he is energizing people to participate who haven't participated before -- and I believe we need EVERYONE waking up everyday working on the problems we face as a nation and as a world community. We need EVERYONE and we need to treat each other with great respect.

Just a thought...

[IndyOp]

38. And please see...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4743957#4744392

[cbayer]

44. Thank you for standing up. nt.

[emilyg]

41. I'll take silly over stupid any day.

[Occam Bandage]

9. Violent?

[IndyOp]

13. Angry, hateful, violent words -> "Clinton supporters don't have the guts"

[Occam Bandage]

23. Not quite the right word.

[mkultra]

25. antagonistic would be more fitting

[Occam Bandage]

30. Agreed.

[IndyOp]

27. "violent" can refer to an emotion - powerful unpleasant destructive emotion.

"Bashing" is verbal violence - the words are powerful and destructive.

IMHO.

[mkultra]

21. he and yoda would have gotten along well.

[rocktivity]

6. I thought Frank Rich is only allowed to write on Saturdays

when he'll get least attention.

:headbang:
rocknation

[MethuenProgressive]

12. Welcome to DU ORDem, please read the rules before posting.

If you have the guts.

[BuyingThyme]

34. Was there a rule violated?

[MethuenProgressive]

46. Civility, trolling, flame bait, broard brush attack...

Content: Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements.

[cbayer]

50. I guess the OP writer didn't have the guts to come back in the room. nt.

[ErnestoG]

54. translated: "Stop posting unflattering things about Hillary Clinton"

[blonndee]

14. Please don't instigate.

Please.

[democrattotheend]

17. What's the point of antagonizing HRC supporters?

What's the point of such an insulting headline? For Christ's sake, we are all Democrats here! Behavior like yours is pissing off people whose votes and support Obama will need in November. Please, as a fellow Obama supporter, I beg you, stop antagonizing the Clinton supporters and stop gloating!

[thereismore]

18. That is one tough OpEd. All true as far as I am concerned. nt

[maddiejoan]

20. Hillary supporter here

I had the guts to read it.

You and Frank Rich are certainly entitled to your opinions.

:shrug:

[mkultra]

26. If you have something to say

try not being an asshole about it.

[From The Left]

29. It Could've Been Different for Hillary

Had she:

1. taken responsibility for her 2002 Iraq war authorization vote instead of weaseling around it with hallow spin like, "If I knew then what I know now."

2. apologized to the American people and to the families, wifes, husbands, spouses, children, grandparents and loved ones killed in Iraq for giving Bush the authority to wage war.

But like the Carole King song says, "It's too late baby, now it's too late."

Hillary's Iraq war vote the albatross hanging around her neck and she will never be free from it.

[Donkeykick]

31. I agree with IndyOp here.

I, will be voting for Hillary in March. If she doesn't make it, I will be voting for Barack this Fall. There is no need for such negativism, :eyes: that you placed in this thread. The main idea is to get a Democrat in the White House instead of anther GOP member that will only continue carrying Dubya's policies forward.

Please assist me, as well as others, keep the party together.

I ask that you carefully consider this. Please!

[IndyOp]

37. And I agree with Donkeykick! Respect and unity will take us in the direction

we need to go. Insults and antagonism do no good.

:hi:

[golddigger]

33. Ex-Edwards supporter, now Clinton supporter, will now have the "GUTS"

to write in Edwards if Obama gets the nomination.:wtf: :grr:

[cbayer]

45. You should really self-delete this.

And I am really glad I changed my Avatar because I don't want anyone to confuse me with you. Ever.

[NMMNG]

47. Read it.

:boring:

[Perry Logan]

48. You don't have to eat the whole egg to know it's rotten.

[bigtree]

49. so disheveled that she's denied Obama the opportunity to amass enough delegates by votes alone

. . . to secure the nomination. I've never seen a race this close, in my lifetime. Rich is piling on. Any trailing campaign can be criticized, in hindsight. But, Clinton is no slouch, and Rich's opinion, from outside the campaign, isn't any different from any of the other gossip which passes for analysis these days.

[NastyRiffraff]

51. Well, gee, I've seen a lot of crap on DU

But never have I been told not to even look at a thread, let alone respond to it, because I "don't have the guts."

Thank you to all the Obama supporters who have called the post's subect what it is.

[ErnestoG]

53. Brilliant article. Thanks.