Stunning, just stunning

[MadHound]

The past few days around here, as it has become ever more clear that Hillary is going down, I've seen more and more Hillary supporters hinting or even outright declaring that if Obama is the standard bearer, they will either stay home, vote Nader, write in Hillary, even vote for McCain.

The sad thing is that many of these people I know have been here for years. Dedicated Democrats that are now considering leaving the party all because their candidate didn't get the nomination.

Grow up! Many of you were the same folks back in '04 who were chastising us, doing daily loyalty oaths to insure we voted for Kerry. Many more Hillary supporters were doing the same bully boy tactics last fall, back when Hillary was inevitable. Well, we sucked it up and voted for Kerry in '04, despite our dislike of him as a candidate, and now it is your turn. I understand your candidate didn't get the nomination, I understand that you folks went from the height of the invincible to find out that your candidate had feet out of clay. But the fact of the matter is that you need to suck it up, move on, and vote for the party this fall.

Do you really want McCain in the White House? Is that how petty and spiteful you are? Look, I'm probably one of the most left people on this board, DK was my guy, and I've even flirted with going Green before. But when the rubber meets the road, I came down on the side of the Democrats every single time. Sure, take some time, get used to the idea gradually, do it with your nose closed, but come out and vote for the Democratic nominee this fall, Obama.

Anything else is just counterproductive, petulant, self centered whining that will get us McCain for four years. Are you folks really that determined to punish the country? If so, then you are all beyond contempt.

[WillyT]

1. Word !!! - K & R !!!

:kick:

[IndianaGreen]

84. I'll add my K&R to yours, WillyT

:kick:

[Freida5]

2. Must be the arrogance of hype of the BO campaign

[sendero]

6. When HRC desmonstrates arrogance...

.. it's her being "tough". When anyone else does it, it's bad.

I love seeing HRC going negative in Ohio. She's driving a final stake into the heart of her campaign.

It is said that you don't see what people are made of in good times, you see it in bad times. HRC is made of venom when her best-laid plans for a coronation fall apart.

Too bad. Next time HRC remember - it's the war, stupid.

[psychopomp]

91. It was arrogance that did Sen. Clinton's campaign in

To not have any strategy beyond Super Tuesday because you were sure that you could just cruise to the nomination based on name recognition and "inevitability" was the height of hubris. Along came a strong contender and Sen. Clinton's waltz to the nomination was off.

[MadHound]

7. Puhleeze,

I saw the same dynamics at work in '04, and yet those for whom Kerry was their last choice went ahead and voted for him in the fall. I should know, I was one of those people who couldn't stand Kerry.

[NDambi]

197. me too..but I sucked it up...wanted bush gone

[Maddy McCall]

3. Are you creating strawmen just to knock them down?

Because I'm going to support the Dem nominee, regardless of who it is. And I haven't seen a lot of Clinton supporters saying that they'd do otherwise.

I've seen a few, but not many. I've seen a few Obama supporters saying they'd never vote for Clinton if she got the nom, too.

But I don't think that it's any widespread movement.

[MadHound]

10. Perhaps it's just the day and time that I logged on here

I've been going through thread after thread seeing people or polls showing that there are many who won't vote for Obama if he's the nominee:shrug:

Not trying to set up any strawmen, nor bash Hillary supporters, just calling what I see.

[Recursion]

101. I have n/t

[messiah]

4. I'm still puzzeled by anyone who thinks

it makes a difference as to who gets elected.
Only a few men run this country.
People should just stop playing games.

[Garbo 2004]

25. That's what some folks said in 2000. Think the last 7 yrs would have been the same w Gore? n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. Yep.

But it will take 25 years to get back to where we were in 1980. Maybe 60 to get back to real progressive politics.

Takin' the long view.

[H2O Man]

46. Exactly.

It's as if some people have been pushed down so far in the past seven years, that they have given up hope. They aren't able to see that things can be different.

[messiah]

48. Gore Wasn't meant to win

because I don't think he has any royal bloodlines.
I didn't see any real opposition in the congress over the past 7 years so yeah it probably would have been the same.
Bill Clinton ushered in the trade agreements Bush is ushering in the middle east and now it's time for Obama to usher in the Amero and whatever else is planned.
You don't see it do you?.

[Cha]

62. Whatever..you don't have a crystal

ball so you shouldn't be pushing like you do.

[IsItJustMe]

77. I see some truth to what you say. The first steps toward the Iraq invasion were liad down in

Bill Clinton's administration. Of course it was pushed by the Republicans, but it got through Bill all the same.

On edit: Lots of folk don't know that or ignore it.

[Garbo 2004]

112. Good Grief. You really think Gore would have invaded Iraq, led the assault on the Constitution,

separation of powers, made the same appointments to the SCOTUS?

I'm not naive and I've seen and see a lot of things over the last 4 decades and more. That's why I don't "cheerlead" for any politician. Nevertheless, I still think a Dem is better for the greater good, as flawed as politicians are and the system is.

(And if you're going by that "bloodline" thing, do your homework on Gore.)

[electropop]

213. Do you think Congressional Dems' stunningly poor performance is tied to the wiretaps?

Presumably by now, Bush has dirt or at least personal info on virtually every Dem politician in the country. I can't help but speculate that Dems are betraying us because they've been blackmailed. If Gore had held the reigns of NSA, this wouldn't have happened, and thus performance may have been better.

[Zhade]

166. The old Gore? Similar, but not exactly the same.

No 9/11, for one.

[sce56]

171. I can look back and see that Gore was setup for his presidency with Liberman !

I bet if Gore would have prevailed and was sworn in on 1-20-01 he would have been a casualty of 9-11-01! And we would have had President Lieberman to contend with!

[Blue State Bandit]

173. Interesting analogy.

[rucognizant]

189. Yes Tecumseh's Curse!

The President elected in 2000. was supposed to die in office, according to the established pattern..................
Because Bush was Selected....it didn't apply!

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/uspresidents/a/tecumseh.htm

William Henry Harrison won the presidency in 1840 with the slogan, "Tippecanoe and Tyler Too." This refers to his participation in the Battle of Tippecanoe in 1811. He was seen as a hero when Tecumseh's forces were defeated at this battle. Harrison's presidency never really had a chance to begin. He delivered a very long inaugural address on a cold, windy day. Then he was caught in a rainstorm. He caught a cold which turned for the worse and led to his death. He 'served' as president from March 4 - April 4, 1841. His death would be seen as the first in a long series of what became known as Tecumseh's Curse: Presidents elected in a year ending in a zero would die in office. more to read........................................

[sce56]

201. Does that apply to Ronnie Raygun Also cheated to get in office, October surprise Iran hostage deal?

n/t

[SOS]

41. The 100,000 dead in Iraq might disagree with your assessment.

nt

[NOLALady]

115. People should stop playing games?

What do you think they should do?

Are you saying people shouuldn't vote?

What do you suggest?

[Recursion]

125. You're right... Gore being President in 2000 would have made no difference

:sarcasm:

Are you even being serious? That's simply dumb.

[John Gauger]

140. Agreed.

I'm just voting for whoever the Democrat is, because it doesn't really make a difference. I suppose I could vote for whoever, because it really doesn't mean anything. If I learned anything from the 2006 election, it's that the voters decides nothing. We have no say in our government.

[ekwhite]

159. Yes, things would have turned out the same the

last eight years if Al Gore had been elected. Idiot.

[Pooka Fey]

187. Gore WAS elected. He won Florida in 2000, thus the election.

the Supreme court installed * .

[antigop]

5. Did I miss something? When did Obama become the nominee?

Full disclosure: I'm NOT a Hillary supporter. (That doesn't make me pro-Obama, though.)

[MadHound]

15. He hasn't yet, but it is looking increasingly likely that he will be

The numbers simply aren't there for Hillary. She's got to get sixty plus percent in every single state from here on out. Yet Obama is surging in Texas, and making up ground in Ohio. Sorry, but the numbers simply aren't there.

[antigop]

82. Well, don't count your chickens before they hatch. Again, I'm NOT a HRC supporter.

I wouldn't count her out just yet.

[Zhade]

167. True. She could still try to cheat.

NT!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Funny. I've Seen That Talk In The Past From Far More Obama Supporters.

This isn't limited to one side or the other. It's just limited to closed minded morons, regardless of the candidate they support.

[Joshua N]

147. I love your RickRoll'd link n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. This Dem is staying home no matter who gets the nomination.

1. None of these people represents change. Sorry to burst your bubble. I will vote neither Hillary, Obama, Ralph or John for, with the exception of the crackpotedness that is Nader, they all represent the same old. None are Dems IMO.

2. I really don't give a fuck what you think of that.

[GarbagemanLB]

11. your name suits you.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Leave MrsG alone

Please

[Debi]

28. Back off of Mrs. Grumpy n/t

[TheWatcher]

152. Allow me to 4th that one.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

169. Hey, guess what?

Fuck you, asshole.

[NDambi]

198. ha ha good one

[Garbo 2004]

21. Justice Stevens is 87 years old. I'd rather not have another R apptee on SCOTUS. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. And I really don't fucking care.

It's a joke. Cheers.

[John Gauger]

151. Your courage astounds me.

I agree, but I usually bite my tongue for fear of getting flamed. I really don't think voting makes any kind of difference. It's all a farce. To be honest, I'm just going to vote for the sake of saying I did it.

If the best you can say for your candidate isn't even that he won't be as bad as the other guy but that his judicial appointees won't be as bad (they won't be good, they'll just suck less) that's pretty fucking pathetic. I'm supposed to spend time and money out of my life for this? I'm supposed to get excited about this? When, on Election Day, that dog shit that is the Presidential candidates is placed on my plate, you know what I'll do? I think I might just go on about my business. I think I care more about my personal drama than this kabuki theater. You're right. It is a joke. It's a fat fucking joke on America.

I admire you, ma'am.

[Tafiti]

168. Um, that's just idiotic.

The Supreme Court is a joke? Do you have any fucking clue what a huge impact one single Supreme Court justice can have? Ever heard of Earl Warren or William Brennan, Jr.? They're true American heroes. Sometimes, progressive values are implemented and enforced directly from the bench.

Thanks. Just stay home and we can get another Scalia, or Thomas, or Roberts, or Alito. Then once they get that crucial fifth vote, you can wave goodbye to Roe v. Wade and watch these conservative fuckfaces on the SC steadily erode a half-century's worth of progressive work in the justice system. Think what you want about the Legislature and the Presidency, but the Supreme Court fucking matters, no joke.

[Raster]

52. And I agree. Even if both candidates are card carrying DLC shills--and I said IF--the threat of

a rethuglican pResident being able to insert yet another deplorable, incompetent, partisan whackjob on the SCOTUS, is something EVERY LAST FUCKING ONE OF US should fight against. Now is not the time to let short-range squabbles and ideological hissy fits give us another Alito or Thomas. Cross yourself and say a "Hail Mary," hold your nose or what-the-fuck-ever you have to do, but DO NOT LET ANOTHER RETHUGLICAN NEAR THE WHITE HOUSE. Have we not learned a damned thing? Seriously...?

[dicknbush]

133. Well the way the democratic party has treated Hillary.....I really don't care who gets on the court

I really don't I mean really in our everyday life it makes no difference. You may think it matters but it really doesnt otherwise everyone of these fucking Obanable supporters who seem to be coming out of the wood work like roaches where the FUCK were they when Kerry was running??? WE WOULD NOT HAVE AN ALITO OR ROBERTS ON THE COURT NOW IF IT WASN"T FOR THESE FUCKS SITTING ON THEIR ASSES IN 2004. I WILL GIVE YOU ABOUT 15% PERCENT WERE NOT ELLIGABL BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS WAY MORE THEN ENOUGH TO HAVE BEAT THE WAR CRIMINAL BUSH...NOW WE HAVE "AMERICAN IDOL PRESIDENT" AND EVERY ONE WANTS TO VOTE...... FUCK EM!

[rucognizant]

192. Here's where they were

"Obanable supporters who seem to be coming out of the wood work like roaches where the FUCK were they when Kerry was running???"

Many of them were STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL! Not eligible to vote in 04!
I taught art to 6 - 12 year olds, in the mid 90's & from 1999 - 2001. My first assignment was always ( with a new class) "You are King/QUeen of the World for a day; How would your world look!" Unlike their older brothers & sisters, they weren't concerned with superficial, external, appearance, they drew worlds with homeless shelters recycling facilities, organic farming! Brittany Spears was a has been to them, and lacking depth, ................And like their above average social awareness, their creative output was also above average! The day Elien Gonzolas was snatched from his cousins home, in Miami, to be returned to his Father in Cuba, we didn't draw at all but had a political discussion. ( Their call; I never imposed a lesson plan on the students,but tuned in to them intuitively and let them take the lead. Requires more energy to teach that way but the results are rewarding.) They were very mature in their discussion, and I thought at the time; "These kids are going to create a new Renaissance!
The oldest of them is now 20!...................

Therefore when Caroline Kennedy endorsed Obama at her kids ( in that same age group) urging, I took it very seriously. Caroline has NEVER made a partisan move in her entire life!
All of history is cyclical............it is our time for a change ( not instant gratification, but move towards change!)
ANd a lot of us Grandparents recognize this as well.................because we remember how it used to be! Pre 11/22/63! The oldest Boomer was only 17 at that time, and the bulk of that generational group were adolescents. Their entire adulthood has been lived in a post Kennedy(liberal) creeping PNAC/ takeover world, including the schools & publishers of text books) ( Negroponte started out in Bab's Father's publishing CO. His Brother works there still if I am not mistaken!)
Read Patty Davis' book about her Father Ronnie, it is very insightful, and not well PR'd.

[Omega3]

223. even if he's replaced by another Repub appointee the make up of the court will be the same as it's

been for a long time, 5-4, and guess what, RoevWade has never been overturned. I'm not saying I want or will vote for McLame but at least with him you know what your getting, with obama, the conservative, republican lite, Dem you just don't know. go back and check his "votes" on abortion issues and you'll see hee's very conservative about things like abortion and of course gay rights. I do NOT trust him to appoint a very liberal judge to the bench if he's in the same position, not one iota.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Hey Mrs G

:hi:

How ya doin? :hug:

[MadHound]

30. Look, I understand your bitterness and anger, and agree with you

Up to a point. Do you honestly think that McCain is the same as Obama? Hey, at least Obama has stated that he'll start bringing troops home, as opposed to McCain who says he'll keep them there for a hundred years or more.

Look, I was where you are back in '04. I understand and share the anger and frustration that you have, believe me. Obama isn't my first candidate, and frankly the only reason that I'll vote for him is because otherwise it is McCain. Voting for the lesser of two evils sucks, especially when we've had to do it time and again.

But I'd rather vote for a corporate candidate who will get us out of Iraq than one who will keep us in.

Take some time, think about it. That's what I did in '04 and wound up voting for Kerry, even though I despised the man.

Peace:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. I appreciate your points, but I'm done.

The joke that is politics this year did me in.

[MadHound]

40. Well no matter what happens this fall, will you help me with something?

That's pushing publicly financed election campaigns for each and every office. That will take the corporate money out of the equation, and will go a long way to restoring our government back to we the people.

[ScreamingMeemie]

66. Not this time MadHound.

Maybe if I get my head back together at some point in time...or the semblance of a life worth living. But I can't. All of this ceased to become so very important in light of trying to help my kids through this. Take care.

[MadHound]

80. Well take care of yourself,

And good luck to you and your kids. Sometimes it is best to take time off from politics, I do so quite frequently. Peace:hi:

[sellitman]

179. A serious question then.

This isn't meant to be snarky, nasty or vindictive.

Why are you here if you are going not to vote at all?

There are many folk who shy away from politics and or don't vote because they feel they are not informed etc.

You are here though. On DU. You obviously care enough. At no time in our history has America declined in every conceivable way the way it has under a Republican administration. What a non-vote for the Democrats does is say...its ok.



I know you care more than that.

Please reconsider.

[ScreamingMeemie]

228. I only care about seeing my children through their loss...

I only care about making my voice known here...that we have, again, been had by a party many of us (myself included) have pounded the pavements for and spent lots of money one. I'm done with that.

[sellitman]

180. duplicate post

Browser hung up

[sellitman]

181. duplicate post

browser hung up

[dicknbush]

131. Hey I have a s urprise for you...Obamanable is not going to leave Iraq

He may try to paint it as we are leaving Iraq but I promise you at the end of his first term......OH GOd how depressing.....we will still have a presence in Iraq an ocuppying force in Iraq. The Military will not allow Obamanable to leave.

Obamanable ....Preacher in Politicians clothing!

[Joshua N]

148. It's almost like you want that to be true just to prove yourself right.

[Omega3]

222. bo wants to expand the military by 100,000, yes onehundredthousand troops, he's no anti-war canidate

that's the biggest myth this season

[Debi]

31. Sorry to hear that Mrs. Grumpy

:hug:

[jpak]

33. President John McCain thanks you for your non-vote for non-change

La la la la la...

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. LOL

That's hysterical. And not bound to change my mind. Sorry.

[jpak]

37. There should be a new forum for non-voting Dems

:D

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. No. We should all be able to post our opinions here.

:)

[jpak]

43. It's a joke - cheers

la la la la la la

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. Now you've got it.

[jpak]

49. Yes, and non-voters can post their non-opinions all they non-want

anon

[MzShellG]

93. It boggles the mind....

How one can be so politically opinionated and yet not vote. That's totally contradictory.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabasco]

59. Sign up for the 100-year war right here:

www.goarmy.com

But I doubt you will pass the aptitude test for any specialty, even with Bush's lower standards.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. Thanks. That's really nice of you.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

69. I guess we could do without a president.?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

73. Hi, MrsG!

How ya doin? :hug:

You were on my mind so heavy a couple of weeks ago. If I'd known you still post here I'd have PM'd you. I kept thinking of you all through our last fund drive. I have no idea what brought it on, but I really hope you're doing alright.

Screw politics they're depressing. How's the kids? Your girl should be what, a senior now? Is that right? They grow up so damn fast.

[MzShellG]

92. Are you no longer a democrat? Were you ever before, really? Seriously.....nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

107. Seriously...I really can't call either "candidate" a dem.

Sorry. I'm not a sheep anymore. I'm not voting for some who doesn't represent my beliefs. Thank you.

[LibraLiz1973]

106. I agree with your first sentence

and understand the 2nd

[dicknbush]

127. I'M WITH YOU GRUMPY

they are all a bunch of fruads...I only think that Hillary is the best shot to geet something done that will really help my children. My life is in the twilight so I won't be around much longer but my kids world is going to be a disaster from what I can see.

[JVS]

183. Aww, c'mon.

[redqueen]

206. You don't think it'll have any bearing on SCOTUS?

Or evironmental issues?

None at all?

Gore would have been as bad as Bush, do you think?

[GoldieAZ49]

12. daily loyalty oaths = STUPID & INSULTING

Whatever happened to "to thine own self be true"

And why ask supporters of one candidate to pledge loyalty to another while their candidate is still running and they are being insulted and ridiculed by supporters asking for loyalty??

There is no link to what they say here and vote for in the booth anyway, seems rather ridiculous.

Just another way of rubbing salt in the wound, IMHO.

[MadHound]

24. Actually I was looking for loyalty to the party,

And trying to show people that this sort of thing has gone on here on DU before, and possible suggestions as to how to alliviate it. This wasn't a loyalty oath post, nor was I trying to rub salt in the wound. But hey, peoples' perceptions are subjective, so it may appear that way to you. That's not how it was intended.

[JackORoses]

14. this is the damage Hillary is doing to the Party by not withdrawing gracefully

She is forcing her supporters into a war of attrition.
They will be made to hate Obama.

It will hurt our efforts in the Fall.

She is a very selfish person.
a Downright Disgrace...

[rodeodance]

18. Oh cut with the crap--This IS the DEM primary season for christs sake!

[JackORoses]

68. it is not for creating long lasting divisions within the Party

That is what she will do with a prolonged dirty battle.
Her supporters will become more an more jaded towards Obama until they may not even vote for him.

If she had withdrawn gracefully after the last debate, we would already be uniting around our nominee.

Instead, we are back to our trenches.

Thanks a bundle, Hillary.

[rodeodance]

76. The damage has already been done--both by Obama and his divisive

campaign and by some-not all Obama supporters on this forum

[totodeinhere]

97. And not even one Clinton supporter shares any of the guilt?

How about at least a little bit of balance?

[dicknbush]

162. Fuck You she is not sellfish she is running for office.

She has made a commitment and by the way did you vote in the last election.....JJust wondering!

[zalinda]

177. No, YOUR message is what is tearing the party apart

I am an Edwards supporter. And, even though Edwards has suspended, Obama supporters still manage to put him down in ANY thread about him. THIS is what makes us not want to vote for Obama. Now you are doing it to Clinton's supporters, and you think that this makes them to want to vote for your guy? No, this just proves the arrogance of Obama and his supporters. We already have an arrogant man in the White House, and quite honestly, I'm not seeing much of a difference between the men or their supporters.

zalinda

[Autumn]

230. Bullshit n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. They're acting like a bunch of fucking babies

I even saw one of these dimbulbs say, about Obama, "He won't be my President." It makes one wonder whether their anti-Bush positions had anything to do with principle, or they were just mad cuz their team didn't win.

Fucking crybaby idiots.

[unblock]

17. i'll forgive them the passion of the moment

it has to be frustrating when your sure thing next president sees her huge primary lock dry up and blow away.

long before november, we'll all be democrats against mccain; so let's remember we're all on the same side, no matter what some people may say in the heat of the moment.

[THUNDER HANDS]

20. let them stay home

a Obama victory party beats a hillary pity party any day.

Somehow, I think he can win without the 20 or so angry Hillary diehards here.

[Laurab]

23. Vote for Ralph Nader? The man who gave us George W. Bush?

That's really sad.

[cd3dem]

54. just because we hate Obama does not mean we will vote for Nadar

I hate Nadar too...

I'm hoping for Bloomberg!

[mrbluto]

129. It wasn't Nader.

It was the Supreme Court and a few operatives. Oh, and Diebold.

He made their job a bit easier, but he wasn't the deciding factor.

[Debi]

26. Soon will come the flames

This is for you

[amborin]

27. it's b/c of the stunning viciousness of many obama supporters

who need to be more self reflective

don't always shift the blame onto someone else....take some responsibility

it's many obama supporters who said they'd stay home if hillary got the nomination

and obama supporters who cried vote fraud when hillary won new hampshire and mass

what if hillary supporters cried vote fraud, hmmmmmmm?

[MadHound]

34. If you are allowing the comments of a few anonymous posters on a political chat board

To influence your vote, then I think that you need to put the computer down and stop taking such chat boards so seriously. There are many, many things that blow around this place yet never resonate out in the wider world.

As they used to say, don't let the bastards get you down.

[NashVegas]

70. If That's The Way You Feel, Why Did You Bother to Write the OP?

Just musing aloud?

[amborin]

86. you're right

and considering the environmental record of mccain.....

[apocalypsehow]

36. This absurd post sums up why the HRC is cratering. Major projection going on there. n/t.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4687099#4692520

[incapsulated]

45. Thank you n/t

[publicatlarge]

60. Do you think...

..the government will pass an edict by popular acclaim to euthanize all those over 50? Some of the more spirited here, seem to suggest something close.

[MzShellG]

95. If you let a little high spirited debating amongst fellow dems on a messageboard affect you,

Supporting a dem candidate in november, maybe you should back away from the computer. Clearly, it is an unhealthy thing for you.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

38. Dean supporter who saw the highs and lows and sucked it up for Kerry.

As it was then, it's not even a close call. :shrug:

[cd3dem]

47. WRONG!!!

"...now considering leaving the party all because their candidate didn't get the nomination..."

you are not reading what people are saying...

* we do not like the race-card played by Obama
* we do not like the divisive tone of Obama and his people
* we do not like his threats that if he is not the nominee his supporters will not vote for Hillary
* we do not like the lies Obama has made on multiple topics
* we do do not like the avoidance of issues and sidestepping real discussion with rhetorical lines
* we do not like the sexism against Hillary
* we do not like the say anything and do anything to get elected, including praising Reagan
* we do not like democrats who trash other democrats and democratic ideals (universal health care)

We want a candidate we can believe in and we do not believe in Obama! we see him as divisive and bad for the party and bad for the country!

“I really tried to never do anything I don't believe in, so I don't want to change it now. I really don't”
--Paul Wellstone

[MadHound]

81. Have you ever thought that in your partisanship and anger that you're missing some things,

And misrepresenting others.

I read that list of yours, and don't see what you perceive. For example, you cite Obama praising Reagan. Yes, he did do that, he praised Reagan's ability to be a transfigurative player in politics, and frankly he was. He pulled an entire demographic into his camp, crippling the Dems for years. Does this mean that Obama or his supporters like Reagan's policies, no. It is simply acknowledging the historical realities of what Reagan did.

Also, you are attributing the actions of his supporters against the candidate himself. Don't you think that's rather unfair? Hell, if I did that sort of thing with Hillary I would think that she is a lying, coniving devil from the pits of hell who eats children on a daily basis. You've got to learn to separate the candidate from his followers.

So please, after this bruising primary season is over, in a quiet moment, please reconsider in a calm and nonpartisan way all these accusations that you're throwing out there. I think that you'll be surprised.

[Omega3]

225. have you ever thought in your partisanship and anger that his praising of Ronald Fucking Reagan was

him playing to the independents and moderate Repukes???

he either intended to do it b/c
A. he's really playing to the mods and centrist REpukes
B. showing his inexperience by saying anything positive about a controversial republicon president when he easily could have picked a unifiing dem president.


his accusations are dead on and a reason why so many of us dislike BHO, he's a phony, obtuse, race-baiting not-ready-for-primetime, special interst taking (REzko,Excelon) 2 year Senator from Illinois. Period.

Excuse me, now I have to go watch American Idol.

[sandnsea]

50. Most Kerry people support Obama

Just to clarify there. The Hillary people are a mix of Lieberman centrists and gays who will never let go of McClurkin. Has nothing to do with John Kerry.

[dicknbush]

132. A Spry Farrakhan Sings Obama's Praises

Yeah baby.......this is going to go down well in Iowa. His wife hates america until they support her husband and now the Jew hater Farrahkan sings his praises as the saviour of the world..Yeah baby.Hillary get those flyers out with Farrahkan supporting Obama

[misanthrope]

51. Obama is my third choice...

...Kucinich was first and Edwards second. I'm now down to number three.

This is something to which I've grown accustomed over the last couple of decades and have pretty much resolved that my actual political ideals will likely never be represented. It's just a fact of life here and it eases my frustration to be an adult and accept it for what it is.

I have a feeling there are plenty of other Obama supporters in the same boat, yet I get the feeling a great deal of the Hillary folks have been in her camp since the beginning. If so, their reluctance to support anyone else would certainly play into stereotypes regarding "party establishment" and feelings of "entitlement." Like it or not, it also cements the portrayal of the Clintons as divisive, destructive and concerned only with personal ambition and ego.

[Beausoir]

53. Why are the Obama people here so freaked out about Nader? He's a joke.

I don't know anyone who would even glance at him in passing as a candidate.

[RoadRage]

63. Gore thought he was a joke in 2000 as well..

and, i guess we all saw how "funny" that turned out to be.

[Beausoir]

75. Nader is a joke. He's irrelevant.

[RoadRage]

79. Keep repeating that to yourself.. and hope it proves true in '08!

I hope it is true.. but the point of my last post was - it WASN'T true in 2000. He proved himself to be relevant enough just to screw the dems and put chimpy into the white house.. and get us into a war that has caused billions of dollars and thousands of lives. Not really irrelevant to me.

[MzShellG]

99. Noone's freaking out about Nader....

Who cares about him? It's just sad what's happening to our democratic party. Doesn't democratic unity matter anymore? Why are we sooooo splintered?

[vssmith]

55. What would they say if the shoe were on the other foot?

They would be crying foul, as well they should.

[Neshanic]

56. Here's my deal. Up to the coronation, I will say what I think about him.

At the moment that he is coronated and has his remoras hoist him high above at the convention, I will not say one word against him. I WILL vote for him.

After he loses to McCain then it's OK to say anything about him.

Deal?

[JVS]

57. Damn straight! They should eat shit, stfu, and get lost if they can't deal with the nomination.

[n2doc]

58. Egg-freakin-actly!

Look folks, it's politics, not the glee club. Not voting (or god help us all, voting R or I) means 4 more years of death and destruction FOR SURE. McCAIN has told us that he wants to attack Iran. Do you want to be the one who helps him push that button?

Piss and moan, fight it out, but come november anyone who votes for the opposition is enabling the continuation of the criminal Bushco regime.

[dmonty]

61. I will not vote for Obama, or Nader, or McCain

I have voted a straight Democratic ticket since 1986. I am a signatory to the third Humanist Manifesto and an occasional member of the Democratic Socialists of America --- and I will not be voting for Barack Obama. There are several reasons:

1) I realized that if he were white I wouldn't even consider voting for him.
2) I do not consider him qualified to be President.
3) I do not trust him. (In general I do not trust any candidates who depend on charisma to be elected. They remind me way too much of Fundamentalist Preachers).
4) His followers do not impress me. They have, on this board and others, convinced me that I do not want to be associated with the Obama 'movement'.

Incidentally, this is the same reason I would not vote for Nader. I don't consider him qualified to be President. McCain? I believe he is qualified to make the decisions a President needs to make -- I am just convinced I would be unhappy with the results of his decisions. So, in his case, not voting for him is because I disagree fundamentally with his world-view, not because I believe him unqualified.

For me it is not because Hillary may lose, it is because I have decided I can not and will not support Obama the person. So I will look for alternatives ( Bloomberg? ), and if I find no one else, then I will withhold my vote.

[high density]

64. ok, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Hello, Goodbye!

Were people crying about Bill Clinton's lack of experience back in 1992? How did that work out?

[dmonty]

74. Wasn't a Clinton supporter in 92 -

- actually, I wasn't a Bill Clinton supporter in '92. I ended up voting for him 'to support the party' and to vote against Bush Sr.. That is actually part of the reason I won't support Obama. He has the same charisma and I have the same doubts about him that I had about Bill in '92. Won't be fooled again.

And, quite honestly, Bill is still the main doubt I have about Hillary.

[sellitman]

184. Another Republican disrupter

You came here Feb 08


You have two posts


You won't vote Obama and you dis Hillary.

Be gone.

[rodeodance]

78. Thank you-your reasons for the no to Obama are similar to mine.

[Beacool]

105. Hear, hear!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't have said it better myself:

I will not be voting for Barack Obama. There are several reasons:

1) I realized that if he were white I wouldn't even consider voting for him.
2) I do not consider him qualified to be President.
3) I do not trust him. (In general I do not trust any candidates who depend on charisma to be elected. They remind me way too much of Fundamentalist Preachers).
4) His followers do not impress me. They have, on this board and others, convinced me that I do not want to be associated with the Obama 'movement'.


:applause:

[ekwhite]

160. Sockpuppet much? N/T

[PassingFair]

121. "...then I will withhold my vote." Paging Dr. Freud...paging Dr. Freud..

Were you difficult to potty-train, too,
you seem a little....retentive.





Really, vote or don't vote.

Why argue with someone who says they won't vote.

There's really nothing to say.

They don't HAVE to vote.

[Lochloosa]

176. I can give you Five reasons to support the Democratic nominee

[leftcoastie]

214. Right on Target!

[nonconformist]

67. That's not it.

I know for me that's not it, anyway.

I supported Dean in 2004. I was very upset when Kerry appeared as the front runner, and expressed that thought here on DU. I don't think Kerry is a bad guy, just not the best candidate. I ended up happily voting for him in November, as I always said I would, but I'd be lying if I said most of that wasn't an anti-Bush vote.

This time, I supported Edwards. After he suspended his campaign, I had a really difficult choice to make between Hillary and Obama. After a lot of research and soul searching, I was surprised to find myself backing Hillary. She's not my ideal candidate. But she's a great woman, and I think she'd make a wonderful president. I have numerous problems with Obama, and they're pretty substantial.

Did it ever occur to you that some of the people who are less than thrilled about this are just sick and tired of ALWAYS having to buck up? Just a vote to be counted on, no questions asked? That voting for someone who panders to Republicans over me makes my stomach turn? That voting for someone who takes my vote for granted makes my skin crawl? That I cannot put my stamp of approval on this direction that "change" is taking us? Call me cynical, but all of this makes me highly uncomfortable and suspicious.

That said, I've never said I won't vote for Obama. I have said that I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. I will try to muster up an anti-McCain vote in November, I really will. At this point, that's the best I can offer. I've been a yellow dog straight ticket voter and never missed a single election since I turned 18 seventeen years ago. I never thought I'd feel this way, but there it is.

[opihimoimoi]

71. K&R I gonna vote BLUE...no matter if its Mongo of ROCKRIDGE

Compared to Bush/McLame...Obama is a breath of fresh air....yeah he is a rookie, so what....lets see if the Hope/Change comes true...give him time and support....

He is a DEM for gods sake....he coulda went Pub like CPowell

What we can do is make him swear up and down he not gonna appoint them CRONIEs of the GOP....

Make sure all appointments are made with well qualied peeps who are not actors....

Make sure all appointees at the very least go to some primer course before taking office in the respective field...that kinda thing would minimize the Brownie factor from occuring

and get that Chertoff pos outta there

[NastyRiffraff]

72. Will everybody PLEASE give this a rest?

How many times must we post, over and OVER again, that yes, we'll vote for the Democratic nominee, even if he's not our chosen candidate? And all because a FEW posers on a message board for god's sakes, have said they wouldn't?

We KNOW Obama is better than McCain. We GET it, okay?

Why the hell are Obama's supporters flipping out because Nader is running? I thought Obama would beat McCain easily? :shrug:

[Recursion]

102. Maybe because so many posters with Clinton avatars say...

..."I will never vote for him in November"?

I'm guessing that has something to do with it.

[verges]

136. I don't think I've heard

any Obama supporters say it would be easy. Personally, I believe it's going to be a very tough and close election. Every vote Obama (or any other Dem candidate) does not get, is one less that McCain needs to get. And every damn vote counts! Had Gore won by a larger margin in 2000, it wouldn't have been as easy to steal the election. That's why a large majority is important, and I'm not convinced that it's going to be easy.

2000 and 2004 were also supposed to be cakewalk elections for the Dems.

[CrispyQ]

83. I completely agree.

Biden was my first choice. I question the ability of both Clinton and Obama to get the nation back on track & address the serious issues facing our country. However, whoever gets the nom gets my vote in November. Absolutely, unequivocally. Either one will be immeasurably better than another 4-8 years of GOP. Anyone who isn't going to vote or votes independent because their candidate didn't win is acting like a spoiled child. Shame.

[dempartisan23]

85. it may be that mccain and hillary

are very similar. the new york times endorsed both of them. anyone that says they will vote for mccain isnt part of my party.

[beachmom]

87. Um, a lot of us loyal Kerry supporters are backing Obama. So, I

am not sure if everyone is falling neatly into 2004 categories. I just know that from 2005 on, a huge amount of Hillary supporters have been bashing Kerry nonstop.

[Generic Brad]

88. This is Democratic Underground - not Democratic Undermine

But sometimes I wonder.

[NOLALady]

145. I think its just the freeps and trolls trying to divide.

They are getting desperate. Republicans can't win if our party is united. They know that.

I'd promised myself not to use the ignore button, but I think it's about time now.

The mud slings border on racism and sexism. I've had enough.

[billyoc]

89. The fish rots from the head. Clinton will do all she can to sabotage Obama,

and the flying monkeys will follow her right over the cliff.

[Toasterlad]

226. But the Flying Monkeys Can FLY, So Going Over the Cliff is No Big Deal.

[ErnestoG]

90. This is what happens with Clinton Cult Worship.

If their fearless leader can't be "it", then they will torch the town.

[Beacool]

111. Nope, the cult meme belongs all to Obama and his Kool-Aid gang.

The rest of us just don't believe nor buy what he sells.

:shrug:

[ErnestoG]

120. Who over at FreeRepublic wrote that topic line for you?

Nice work.

[Beacool]

153. I'm a lifelong Democrat, nice try.

Your guy is still all smoke and mirrors and I'm glad that in the media some are finally starting to notice it.

[Zhade]

170. What's funny to me, who supports neither, is how EXACTLY ALIKE both camps can be.

(But I'm still glad your candidate is crashing and burning.)

[TexasObserver]

94. I'd shoot myself before I'd vote for McCain. I vote the ticket. End of story.

I'm a Democratic party guy, and that's how I'll go out.

[ErnestoG]

122. I wish more Hillary supporters agreed with you.

I have been keeping track of those who say they'd rather vote McCain or not at all than vote for Obama.

Not a good sign.

[TexasObserver]

I'm an Obama supporter, and before that, John Edwards. I'd still hold my nose and vote for Hillary.

I vote the ticket.

[MzShellG]

96. Are Hillary supporters so weak that they will vote.....

For or enable the republican in the fall, because their candidate lost? Why then do they call themselves the true democrats? GMAFB!

[ErnestoG]

123. YES. And I have proof.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4729430&mesg_id=4747864

[BlackVelvet04]

98. If you think it's ONLY because she might not get the nomination

you really aren't very smart.

[MzShellG]

100. Those so-called true dems...

Who are turning their backs on our nominee in the fall, who will probably be Obama, I can't help but sense an undertone of racism. I'm sure some will cry out in false outrage mixed with vehement denial but I'm not buying it. I can't remember a time in history when the dem party has been this divided heading into the fall elections.

[NOLALady]

137. Sadly, I agree.

Let's just hope they are a minority. The people, regardless of party affiliation, who love this country will try their best to vote out this corrupt Republican administration. There is so much at stake. If the Republicans hold onto the White House, this country will be completely destroyed.

[cooolandrew]

103. There are so many issues that are more important than the candidates,as long as we keep that focus.

[Raejeanowl]

104. I Wholeheartedly Support Clinton, But...

..I really am the adult I claim to be, and I want what's best for my country, particularly, I want a Democrat in office.

If and when her defeat is inescapable (i.e., she withdraws pre-convention or concedes the nomination, not because my cohort on this board declares it), I will lick my wounds a while, sort out my thoughts, square my shoulders, and resignedly go into that booth and do what my values tell me I must do.

And that is, vote for Barack Obama.

[Muzza]

108. Not Over

Firstly, it's not over yet! Clinton is not out! I am sick and tired of all this fatalistic doom - all peddled by the mainstream media and obsessed Obama supporters. It amazes me how intelligent people can be so willing to uncritically take in propaganda peddled by the media and other groups.

Secondly, John Kerry did not inspire hatred and violence in his followers and therefore rallying behind him wasn't a difficult task, even if he wasn't the first choice for many of us. Obama's cult-like impact has had exactly this effect. I will most willingly abandon the party if it chooses a leader who is dividing this country with propaganda, fantasy, and lies. My rage is not because my candidate, Clinton, is momentarily behind and/or could lose. My rage is because her opponent is causing so much damage to this society through his shameless and dangerous campaign to mislead the electorate with false hope and fantasy.

So, yes, you can count me out if Obama is the nominee!

[NOLALady]

119. Your concern is noted.

Welcome to DU. There's always room for one more positive voice.

[verges]

142. It's about the math.

Yes, Hillary could possibly still pull this out. It is very unlikely, however, and I don't think it's going to happen.

Hope is what any campaign is about. Whether it's stated or not. Do you believe Hillary isn't offering Hope? Of course she is.

The only candidate that could possibly live up to expectations IS McCain! 100years of war. Jobs ain't comin' back. Pretty easy to keep promises like that. But I really feel that he would be bad for the country. A country that needs Hope. And either John McCain or the Democratic nominee IS going to be President. Doesn't it make sense to vote for who will do less damage?

[RememberWellstone]

109. Barrack Dukakis

Nuff said. He will not do well in the GE, he probably get blown completely out if Hillary is our nominee. I could be wrong, but it does'nt look well for the GE.

[JI7]

110. what the fuck are you talking about

many of the people who backed Kerry in 2004 and supporting Obama now.

i supported Kerry in 2004 and support Obama now. i don't care for your bullshit post. especially considering many of the Hillary people have bashed Kerry nonstop.

[NMMNG]

113. I will not vote for Obama

It has nothing to do with Hillary (who I came to only after DK and JE dropped out), and everything to do with Obama. I frankly don't give a flying fart in hell what anybody wants to think or say about it. I'm sick to death of people trying to vilify me for refusing to vote for someone who violates my ethics. I will not take an active role in putting that man in office. Ever.

[NOLALady]

117. Does McCain violate your ethics?

[NMMNG]

124. I'm not voting for him either.

Sorry, but the "lesser of two evils" deal isn't going to cut it this time. Obama stinks so bad I can't vote for him no matter how hard I hold my nose. I'll either abstain or write in Kucinich.


What do you guys care anyway? Allegedly support for Obama is so overwhelming he's going to sweep this thing anyway. My piddly vote isn't going to mean squat.

[dicknbush]

130. Bravo I am in your camp.

I will not vote for Obamanable. He is just a preacher in politicians clothing! Yuckkkkkk

[verges]

149. You'd rather

play a passive role in putting McCain in the WH?

[99th_Monkey]

150. But if Hillary got the nomination, you'd be calling for "party unity", did I get that right? -nt

[NMMNG]

154. No, I never said that

I don't bully people into doing anything. Vote for who you want, or don't vote at all, as is your prerogative.

[TankLV]

207. I'm with you buffy - the idiot obamabot supporters made if very clear they don't want us

and now they want us to suck it up for the good of the party - well they can kiss my ass - it's not ME they have to blame - but THEMSELVES.

Mcgurkin was the first nail in the coffin, their trashing everything Clinton was the next batch, and their fucking attitude towards serious disagreements and outright LYING about DOMA and DADT were the final straws...

Fuck 'em - I won't be responsible for that pandering bigot in OUR White House...

[RetroLounge]

116. You know, i was almost swayed to your opinion...

But then again, I wouldn't want to allow the comment of an anonymous posters on a political chat board sway me.

:irony:

RL

[Hutzpa]

118. I'll K&R to this

:kick:

[dicknbush]

126. A Spry Farrakhan Sings Obama's Praises

YEAH BABY LOUIS "JUDAISM IS A GUTTER RELIGION" FARRAKHAN HEARTS OBAMANABLE! THAT SHOULD GET A FEW MORE VOTES FOR BO

IF HILLARY IS SMART SHE WILL PUT OUT FLYERS WITH BO AND CALYPSO KING ALL OVER THE PLACE. HIS WIFE IS NOT PROUD OF ANYTHIGN AMERICA HAS DONE UNTIL HER HUSBAND GETS SOME ATTENTION AND NOW JEW HATER FARRAKAHN LOVES HIM HE SAYS THAT OBAMANABLE IS THE SAVIOU OF THE WORLD OH THAT SHOULD GO DONE WELL WITH THE CHRISTERS...OH THIS IS GOING TO BE GOOD IF THIS FRAUD GETS THE NOMINATION THEY ARE GOING TO CHEW HIM UP AND SPIT HIM OUT NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY HE GETS ON THE INTERNET.

[LuckyTheDog]

135. Dang

So, if a candidate gets unsolicited praise from a distasteful person, then that candidate is "tainted"? Get a grip.

[Beacool]

156. Really? This is too good!!!!!!

Go Farrakhan!!!!!!

:rofl:

[Trajan]

128. I haven't seen anyone say that ...

Can you provide more than a couple links (in our forums) to statements saying such things ?

I would expect 'more and more' links posted in support of your contention ....

[NOLALady]

139. There are many posts in this thread alone.

[Trajan]

157. There are a few ...

There are VERY few ... Hardly enough to worry about ...

Say 'good riddance' and go your way ....

[NOLALady]

158. You're right.

I've activated my ignore button for the first time.

[LuckyTheDog]

138. It was that thinking that gave us GW

The people who showed their ideological purity by voting for Nader in 2000 helped bring us what we have now.

[katandmoon]

141. "How to win friends and influence people"

NOT.
If Obama gets the nomination and I vote for him it sure as hell won't be because of posts like this one.
It will be DESPITE posts like this.

[Skarbrowe]

143. You lost me at "grow up." Heard that crap from the other side since 2000.

[gorfle]

144. I'm just excited

I'm just excited to be voting Democratic for president for the first time. I'd vote for either one.

I don't understand the animosity within the Democratic Party for your own candidates.

They are all good and very similar. We are much more alike than different.

[verges]

155. Good for you!

I don't understand either. They ARE both good. It's very silly. And it's also next to impossible to remain ethically pure in a political race! Politics is about compromise.

[99th_Monkey]

146. But when it looked like Hillary was winning, it's also these same folks that called for "unity"

Now it's coming back to bite them hard.

[dicknbush]

161. Calypso Louis "Judaism is a gutter religion" Farrahkan says Obama Da Man!

Farrakhan(Jews are a gutter religon) compared Obama to the religion's founder, Fard Muhammad, who also had a white mother and black father.

"A black man with a white mother became a savior to us," he told the crowd of mostly followers.

[tucsonlib]

163. Your Anger is Misdirected

Once again I too shall hold my nose and vote for whichever Democrat is on the ballot. I'm not particularly angry toward either Clinton or Obama - This is what pisses me off: Just how the hell did it all come down to a choice between the two weakest, most vulnerable Democratic candidates? Dodd, Richardson, Biden, Edwards, Kucinich - Any one of them would have been a shoo-in. But thanks to the DLC, the corporate media, the Republican noise machine and a gullible electorate we're now facing the real possibility of defeat in November. Say hello to President McCain. God help us all.

[Zhade]

164. "Is that how petty and spiteful you are?" Sure looks like it.

Their "anointed one" is failing, and they're selfish enough to fuck over the party, country, and world by withholding their votes - making them hypocrites.

It's interesting to watch, that's for sure.

[Skittles]

165. works both ways

here's one
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4752494&mesg_id=4752522

[Cronus Protagonist]

172. This happens every election.

If it was Obama apparently losing right now, you would be wading through a monstrous sea of "no vote" threats every single day on here. As it stands, I think this isn't so bad yet. Wait till it actually happens one way or the other and you'll see a suffocating sea of people acting just like petulant children.

[NYPat]

174. Insulting the unconverted doesn't convert

I voted Edwards because I thought he was best, now I think Hillary is the best of the rest. I'm trying to get my mind around Obama since things are tilting his way. I won't detail what my misgivings are, but I'm unsure about Obama. I'm really trying not to let the ugliness on this board turn me away from voting Obama, should Hillary lose, but using words like petty, spoiled, self-centered, or whining for those of us who haven't seen the light doesn't help.

[Cronus Protagonist]

208. I have absolutely not a care in the world about converting anyone

Not interested. And if people act like petulant children on here, that's just a fact about their behavior, not name calling at all. Some people, however have comprehension problems and I seem to be able to bring them out of the dark like moths to a flame.

[ElboRuum]

221. A wise person...

...tunes out the insults and makes up their own mind. Let the zealots rip each others throats out, we don't have to throw in with them or allow them to sway our thinking.

[bklyncowgirl]

175. That's what many Dean and Clark supporters said in 2004.

The overwhelming majority of them voted for and actively supported Kerry in the fall.

Of course Dean and Clark lead the way themselves by not only endorsing Kerry but working hard on his campaign. Let us hope that whoever loses this campaign--and it is by no means certain that it will be Hillary Clinton--will have the grace and strength of character to follow their example.

If the nomination is cleanly won (no superdelegate shenanigans, no pulling a fast one with Florida and Michigan) most and the losing candidate gets on board and leads her/his followers into supporting the nominee, the party should be fine.

[From The Left]

178. A Vote for Hillary is a vote for McCain

Go, Obama, Go!

[Marrah_G]

182. Not sure why you think that isn't said on the Obama side

Just a handful of people who are either talking in anger or really don't care about the party as a whole.

You are being deceptive when trying to make it appear as though this sort of thing only comes from the Hillary side.

In fact I would say that there are FAR MORE people who say "I Wont vote for Hillary under any circumstances".

[pjt7]

185. Clinton supporters will come around, just like a lot

of Edwards people have.

You need some time to de-compress after a hard fight. But then, you realize while maybe Obama is not perfect & you might have many issues with him, Obama is firmly on the democratic side & it's time for the democratic party to take the WH.

[Marrah_G]

186. I'll vote for Obama in the GE

But frankly I don't have an goodwill towards his supporters here and really have zero inclination to campaign for him as I have for others in the past. Actions have consequences and the actions of many Obama supporters here on DU has soured me on the whole thing.

My honest reaction ( at least for right now) towards a great deal many here is " Take your fucking campaign, the insults, the nastiness, the complete assholishniess and shove it. You won't get any help from me".

Sorry, that's just how I feel. Maybe that will change. Maybe I just need to leave this cesspool for a while and get my bearings back. No promises though. Probably no forgiveness either.

The people who have acted like assholes will stay on ignore forever. Fuck them.

[Cameron27]

205. Word for word,

your entire post is exactly how I feel.

"The people who have acted like assholes will stay on ignore forever. Fuck them."

I don't have all of them on ignore, but I won't ever feel the same about some people around here.

[DiverDave]

188. I voted for Edwards in '04, Kerry in the General.

and Edwards again this year.
I'm very sorry that he quit, but voting for that god damned mccain or not voting at all has never, and I mean NEVER, crossed my mind.

I'm a Democrat, till the day I die.

[the other one]

190. For you, I will think about. Hey! Its ONLY FEBRUARY!

This thing has the potential to be quite a roller coaster over the next several months. I could say a lot of things, but it boils down to this: don't let what people say today be of too much concern to you. What people say today and what they do on election day might be very different things.

[MasonJar]

191. I am a Hillary supporter and I will be supporting and working for and voting

for whomever the dems choose. Surely DUers will not vote for a PUG after the last 8 miserable years. However, that said I must say that the vitriol against Hillary on DU has been insufferable and has caused me to avoid the GDP for weeks now. The vicious anti-Clinton rhetoric has diminished your candidate and to what end? As both sides have been reminded time and again, such hate-mongering does nothing to change anyone's mind!

[beezlebum]

200. i honestly can not imagine

a DUer or any true dem voting MCCRAZY- i can see it from indies and self-proclaimed centrists, but progressives?

i guess it's quite possible that there could be a few freeper ops afraid of an obama candidacy, since polls have him smoking mccain in the GE.

but then again i have met some long-time diehard clinton fans who swear they will never ever vote obama, who also swore against edwards, and who have admitted the possibility of voting against obama via mccain, and i can't get over it. i guess bitterness can make one want for more abuse (R)?

i have a feeling, though, if it were the other way around, there would be a quite a lot of tantrum throwing and vows to not vote clinton (i once vowed that, before i was an obamaton or whatever they are calling obama supporters today, and i still do not want her as the candidate, but i WILL vote for her in the GE, even if she does something utterly ridiculous and unethical to get there).

as for "hatemongering" against clinton, i have seen sufficient amounts of hatred towards obama and obama"trons", equal to (at least equal to) anti-hillary vitriol. the difference, however, tends to be substance.

in any case, teh intarwebs is not really the best barometer in terms of reality (no offense DU). i really doubt that the rest of the country, who obviously have less free time than those of us who spend time whining and gloating here, cares enough to protest a la republican- nobody wants another 8 years of dumbass. :eyes:

[Myrina]

193. Aye!

:applause: :patriot:

[beezlebum]

194. the sad thing is

some of those saying they will vote mccain, nader, abstain, write in, so on and so forth, are the ones saying they're voting for hillary b/c they think obama can't beat mccain...that's some logic there!

k&r'd

[Mad_Dem_X]

195. Yes - It's time to think about the country

I'm not crazy about either Dem candidate, truth be told - but whomever gets the nom I will vote for, because we need a Dem in the White House! It's time to stand together and stop letting our personal feelings get in the way of what's best for the country!

[WacoRenegade]

196. I don't see why everyone's so stunned

Look around DU, virtually all of the advocacy is framed in voting AGAINST whoever. Hillary supporters vote against Obama, Obama supporters vote against Hillary, everybody votes against McCain. Damn near nobody's voting FOR anyone. Even the original message in the thread is advocating voting against McCain for the sake of McCain NOT winning.

It probably all comes from not really having anyone left to vote FOR.

As long as you all have the mindset of voting against whoever you think is the biggest boogeyman by voting for what you consider lesser boogymen, don't be so shocked when it misfires. Not all have the same opinion about who is the lesser boogyman.

And voting FOR the party isn't all that appealing a strategy either, considering how many people voted for the party last cycle and got stuck with an utterly worthless congress that calls itself "D" instead of "R."

How many of you spent the early primaries beating down every candidate that wasn't your chosen one? Back when no one candidate had more than 20% of DU supporting him or her, no one candidate had less than 80% of DU attacking. If that's how you want to play this, then here is the result. Bitch and cry all you want, this is your bed, you sleep in it.

I will write in the candidate who will have earned my vote, and if McCain wins the office, so be it. Quit voting for boogeymen just to vote against other boogeymen and you'll stop getting stuck with boogeymen.

[calico1]

199. Wow,

Nothing like a positive, non insulting, non condescending post to encourage people who are not crazy about Obama to vote for him. Nice job!

:sarcasm:

[amb123]

202. YES! Someone on DU who actuallly GETS IT!

K & R
K & R
K & R
K & R
K & R
K & R
K & R

Say NO to four more years of Fascism and War! United we stand, Divided we fall.

Thank you MadHound! :patriot:

[southern_belle]

203. k & r

[Mark D.]

204. PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE

Let's keep this simple. Nader can't win and a Democrat ought to be popular enough to beat Mc-more-of-the-same, on steroids, so that his participation won't matter. Obama supporters aren't often very fond of Clinton and vise versa. We hear you. I was a DK supporter, then JE when DK wasn't getting the momentum. Now I'm for Obama, but would support Clinton if she were nominated. Staying home if your favorite won't win? You're pathetic and not a Democrat in my opinion. You are just about one candidate. Other than LIEberman (when he was a Dem) I'd support any Dem for prez. They'll always be the lesser of two evils vs. a Republican.

Don't just stay home. Get out of the country, or at least out of groups named 'Democratic' anything. You don't belong here as your non-vote and how that may inspire others not to participate may mean McCain wins. And truth is, you're less safe in another country if he wins, as he's more likely to nuke one of them vs. America. Though not totally true. The strategy of staged terror for shock value to incite support (ie. like 9/11) will likely go on under McCain and the CIA dressed like 'El-CIA-Duh' that plant a 'dirty bomb' in a mall (and drive away, they're not suicide bombers after all) may be in a mall you shop at. Take your pick.

I cannot stress this enough. Every Democrat, ARE YOU LISTENING? Don't waste a vote on Nader, and don't stay home. John McCain is the biggest threat to our security ever. He's worse than Bush, because unlike Bush, he's not merely controlled by globalists who want endless war for our debt (their profit) but he's a hot-head enough to want to start a real World War III, not small ones in oil areas, I'm talking about getting pissed at Putin and opening up the silos. WE MUST STOP MCCAIN at all costs. Yes, that means voting for a Democrat you don't prefer. Get over it. Our future depends on it.

[Danascot]

210. If the Dems nominate a dog turd

I'll vote for it. Can't be any worse than the last 7 years.

No one who's gotten far enough to be a viable candidate for president is perfect. They all have baggage and poor judgment in their pasts. I'm outraged at the current pack of dickless Dems in congress who keep rising their rumps to the Pukes for another rogering. But I'm practical enough to realize that we have to suck it up and elect a Dem president and a Dem congress and hope it eventually dawns on them that Karl Rove doesn't call the shots anymore and that the American people want change.

[madwivoter]

209. I couldn't have said it better myself!

:grouphug:

[557188]

211. Talk about unity!

Obama, and his supporters, have helped destroy this party and alienate Clinton supporters.

So much for Unity!

[drmom]

212. I'll admit it...I'm one of the people you describe

I am completely turned off by Obama because of his supporters and how mean they have been. I'm planning on voting for Nader. I was never really that strong of a Clinton supporter, having gone to her side after Edwards left the race, but hearing the mean-spirited Obama people around here repeatedly calling Clinton a b*tch, has totally turned me against his campaign.

I don't want to be part of encouraging that type of behavior, and I can't imagine anything happening to change my mind.

[ElboRuum]

220. So, then...

You are comfortable with the idea of a McCain presidency?

[NoSheep]

215. AMEN!! Vote with the Party. I was DK, then JE then had to take a long hard look...

I decided I would be much happier with either BO or HRC than any of the repukes. If you've painted yourself in a corner by spewing venom on this board as a HRC supporter against a candidate as fine as BO then that's your shortcoming. Yes, please, while I understand your disappointment and frustration, quietly take a grown-up stance and start looking at the good side of the candidate that may defeat Hillary in the long run. I've watched the debates. They are both very good with only minor differences in most areas. If he wins, BO is going to catalyze a lot of people from all walks of life. Even those who do not even realize they are not empowered. Those who THINK they've got theirs when they are really living in a country where democracy is in peril. Let's work together. And on a final note, the race isn't over, but we will need each and every one of us to defeat the republican power/smear machine in the general election. This isn't about you and your personal preferences. It is about your country and the generations to come as well. And the rest of the world really, because we have so much influence.
Please relax and look at what our 2 candidates have to offer. The two we are left with. And remember in the long run, it is about defeating the fascist neo-cons. We can do it if we stick together.

:kick: :grouphug:

[Politicalboi]

216. Well then maybe Hillary

Shouldn't be like the Republicans in her mocking of Obama. It's not that I want to see McCan't win it's the way Hillary is going about it. Win at all cost no matter who you insult. I don't like the way she has been running her campaign. And then there's the Fl Mi debacle which now she wants those votes to count for her. And I don't care if she now feels different it's just the idea that she thought she could just count those. And the MSM still does. It's part of her 11 state win when really she only won 9. And if the SD pick her then that is outright cheating and I will not participate in the 08 election.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

217. Agreed

[Lerkfish]

218. I posted on this already -- link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4740933&mesg_id=4740933

[ElboRuum]

219. While I agree with you...

I think you're assuming something that's not necessarily true. I am under the belief that quite a few recent DUers are nothing more than a bunch of agitators trying to devolve DU into some sort of primary mosh pit. I will not name names nor cast aspersions at post counts. I will not put forth Rovian conspiracy theories, nor will I declare "j'accuse" without proof I know is not forthcoming. However, having this firm belief, I should state that most of these "my candidate or McCain/Nader/NavelgazingAtHomeOnElectionNight" types will most likely never be seen on DU again once the nominee is obvious.

To some, politics will always look like a sporting event. To them, leadership is nothing more than a cult of personality. What's the real point in continuing to watch the playoffs when your team has already been eliminated? Some are so much like this that they'll root for a team to come along and trounce the one who trounced you out of spite.

Do some of Hillary's supporters think this way? Do some of Obama's supporters also think this way? Of course on both counts.

In quite a few ways, both of these cadres of individuals are symptomatic of a larger problem in this country: the deification of personality over any other quality that might indicate a readiness for the job. All of our recent Presidents have been chosen in this manner, starting with Reagan and going forward.

Somehow, we've been indoctrinated into the institutional governmental distrust which has pervaded the cultural atmosphere. We don't honestly believe government works for us, so it is easy to reduce capability to a simple personality contest. Obama is winning because Obama is more likeable. If you look at their "accomplishments" both are rather bereft of true experience, but I do believe that, unlike some have suggested, they both have the chops to govern and will do so with as much fidelity to the Constitution that they can muster. How is this NOT a step up?

But the transients miss this in the haze of their zealotry. Of the (now) four candidates in the race, only two have the real interest in governance, and they are both Democrats. Of the four, only two have convinced me that when they take that oath of office, they will mean it.

[FreedomUnderground]

224. Sitting This One Out? Selfish and Embarassing.

Anyone professing to care about this country who sits on their hands because the candidates aren't good enough will have no voice after the results. Your opinion is shit. Sorry, all you need for evil to triumph is good people who choose to do nothing. It is shortsighted and selfish. No other way to look at it. Consider the options and then do something, not nothing. That's my opinion.

[Toasterlad]

227. I DID Do Something. But I Still Lost.

I contributed to Kucinich's campaign. I campaigned for him. I was as vocal as I could be for him, here and among friends and family. I did what I could to get the word out. But the Democratic sheep still drowned me out with their "baaa's". And Kucinich dropped out.

Now the sheep want me to fall in line and vote like I'm told to. Vote or give up my "voice". Well, this time NOT voting IS my "voice". And you can try and blame me for the election results all you want, but I'll be too busy blaming YOU to notice. Every last one of you toeing the line for no other reason than you believe a guy who calls himself a Democrat is better than a guy who calls himself a Republican. You sold out your party. You had the chance to bring real change - the change you've said you've wanted to see - and you blew it. You knuckled under to the corporate manifesto, and proved that we don't deserve the power, because we refuse to take it when the opportunity is given. You're a disgrace. You're pathetic. And you deserve whichever jackass gets elected: Obama OR McCain. It's just too bad the rest of us have to suffer for your cowardice.

[FreedomUnderground]

229. Here's Why You Are Wrong

You're being selfish plain and simple. I voted for Kucinich too. Tough shit! We don't get want we want sometimes. That's life, but to take your marbles and go home crying is short sighted and selfish.

What you're saying is essentially 'I didn't get my way so I won't play'. But it's worse than that. You have to be able to say in good conscience that you, and people like you who threw a pity party for themselves and refused to vote for Gore against Bush made absolutely no difference in the outcome of that election and that having George W. Bush as President was no different that having * as President. That, my friend, is bullshit.

If you can't see that I feel sorry for you on the day that you do. McCain is bad news for Progressive Americans and potentially innocent victims abroad and I for one will NOT FUCKING SIT THIS ONE OUT!

It is weak and unprincipled. The only barely legitimate excuse it that you would just as soon vote for McCain as Obama or Hillary. In which case you are free to your opinion and I am free to say you are full of shit.