Under Obama's healthcare plan, what happens when somebody shows up

[Rex_Goodheart]

at the emergency room without health insurance? Same as now?

[ecstatic]

1. From the debate, I just gleaned that

the person would be required to purchase insurance on the spot. That works for me!

[UALRBSofL]

2. The problem with that, and I work in the ER

and have for 20 years, they don't have the money to purchase it when they go to the ER. Plus, these folks that don't have healthcare won't get preventive care either, which is the basic foundation for good health. They won't have a family practice doctor to get routine physicals and in many cases catch things like cancer early on or high blood pressure caught early on, etc.

[flyarm]

3. and how does one afford insurance at the ER if they are incapacitated?

who pays for that person..oh i know..the rest of us who were responsible and bought the insurance..same as now..and that is why my fucking hospital bills are so high and eating up my lifetime caps!

yeah..lets always pass the buck..on the guy next to you..thats real responsible!!

wooo hoo..obama lets you mooch off the rest of us!! great guy!!

wow that will really united americans..one group is responsible and buys insurance to protect themselves in case of disease or illness or accidents.. and the other group says fuck it lets buy ipods, blackberries..and beer..and mooch off the others!..wow that will really really unite us won't it?

one group pays the others say ..fuck it..

fly

[bigbrother05]

4. Right. Need universal, single-payer system. Neither does that.

[anamandujano]

6. Hillary is going for it. Obama is not. He will let the crisis continue unchecked.

We will all remain screwed.

[flyarm]

7. we are not going to get that ..not right away..and if you listened to Edwards you would have

understood that..but his plan and Hillary's is a take off on his plan..is considered a first step..

Obama's plan is a plan to never have universal health care.

ever!

any major change like this tales stages.

I was living in Canada when they put their health program into effect..lots of Medical people left Canada..but eventually they all came back..or most of them did. They bitched and moaned..but all the Doc's we know that left ..all went back .

and the price of meds went down enormously.
I always bought my meds up there before coming back to the states.

Change doesn;t always come in one step.

fly

[flyarm]

5. you buy insurance , any insurance for the time you may need it..you don't buy it

when you need it..you buy it for many reasons..in case of fire , flood , hurricane , earthquakes..life insurance should you die..

why should people be allowed to get into a program when they opted out of that insurance..because they said..i don't need it or want to pay for it..and then if they have a devastating diagnosis, or accident
then when they need it the most.. they don't have the means to buy into it ..why should they get it? When we are all going to sacrifice to have a national program..why should some be allowed to not sacrifice ..because of many reasons..but mostly because they don't "think" they need it.

Hope won't pay the bills..hope won't pay to medicate you if you need it or pay for surgery if your life depends on it..

I have friends who's 22 yr old..she was the flower girl in my wedding..who didn't tell her parents she dropped out of college at xmas time..she was in a car accident and her parents health insurance did not cover her because she was no longer in college and she was over 21 yrs old..

Her parents were pretty wealthy..but you can't be wealthy enough with a traumatic illness..her parents lost both of their homes and lost everything...and totally went bankrupt trying to care for their daughter..they got help from all their friends and the husbands collegues..but it was never enough....but their greatest loss was the day they had to turn over her and make her a ward of the state because they could no longer afford her care.
She lived for 4 years in paralyzed from her nose down...she was on life support..for 4 years.She finally lost her fight.

Do not think it can only happen to someone else.

Insurance is a protection, and each and every american should have it. And if people are able bodied and working they should be required to participate.

No other country that has Universal health care do they get it free. there is no free ride in life.

My husband worked in Canada for 22 years..we were required to pay OHIP even though we were not eligible to use it.

Fly

[Horse with no Name]

18. Think about that for just ONE minute

What if EVERYONE waited until they NEEDED it to purchase it? With THAT type of option--I believe it would sink our healthcare system further into the abyss.
It would drive the costs HIGHER for the people who are more responsible, while others could skate along having a system intact "just in case" they might need it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. erm, and if we can't afford it, we have to die?

[flyarm]

27. try reading the programs..if you can't afford it you would probably get it free under Hillary's plan

or close to free..her plan is a sliding scale depending on income or lack of income.

but what would you do now.. if you can't afford it at it's highest rate?? die..because you are barely getting care now..the only difference now.. is i am getting charged for those with no insurance..alot!!

I am getting screwed royally for those without insurance. and not only in fees but it is coming off my lifetime caps on my healthcare for my lifetime...understand when i am being charged $2700.00 for a $50.00 shot..that $2,700. is deducated from my million dollar lifetime cap..

get cancer or be in a bad car accident and need lifelong care..1 million doesn't go very far..and each and every time you use your insurance you are taking off the amount from your lifelong cap.

I get migraine headaches..and on occasion i have to go to the er for a shot..if it is druing the night or a very bad headache..

i get charged now $2,700.00 for that shot..the shot cost $50.00...the er cost is usually $150.00

the rest is for indigent patients.

so $200.00 is for me and $2,500. is for people with no insurance..so maybe they are not paying for their care..but i sure and fuck am paying for them!
and it is coming off my lifetime cap.

there is nothing free..not in this life..

I pay $2,200.00 a month towards my insurance 1/3rd , my husbands employer pays 2/3rds..i do without other things to pay that payment each month, as my husband is retired and if i let it lapse one month we lose the health insurance.

But i am being charged a high rate because my insurance is being charged for those without insurance.


no one ..even those without health care..get a free ride..the difference is ..i am paying for them.

fly

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. What If He Has A Brain Injury That Costs Hundreds Of Thousands Of Dollars To Treat?

Is a monthly premium really going to cover it?

And what if it's learned he was a single , thirty year old man who was earning seventy five thousand dollars a year but decided there were more important things to spend one's money on than health insurance?

Doesn't it create a moral hazard to make people immune from the consequences of their own actions?

[OzarkDem]

8. Yes, same as now. Costs a lot of money

and that's why his program will end up a disaster.

[nonconformist]

9. He's said previously that person would be fined. nt

[flyarm]

10. how do you fine someone who is diagnosed with cancer..or needs and operation that

leaves them disabled? or they are in a traumatic accident?..you buy insurance to protect yourself from those things before they hapoen..can you imagine getting insurance for fire after your house burns down?
or folld insurance ..after your house floats away?

he is asking others to foot the bill for those who want to opt out. that is it in a nut shell!

fly

[nonconformist]

12. Basically, yep. Which is why mandates are necessary. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. But won't all mandates due is just force people to put give yet more money to

the health insruance companies, at the expense of paying their other bills and buying food?

I guess I am just not clear on how this is going to fix the problem of uninsured people if the whole point of being uninsured is that it is priced way out of reach of those people. (like me. Do I get to stay on Medicaid under this plan??)

[nonconformist]

25. You would stay on Medicaid, yes.

For those who can least afford it, the coverage would be free. For those who can afford it, the rate will be capped - you will never pay more than a small percentage of your income. In addition, the costs will be offset by tax credits. You will have a choice between private insurance or government insurance (like what is available to Congress).

By mandating it, you can get people covered that otherwise wouldn't bother - there are thousands upon thousands of people, maybe more, that qualify for Medicaid or other assistance yet don't take advantage of it for whatever reason. That's why just reducing the cost won't do SQUAT. You have to reduce the costs and help people pay for it, but you also have to mandate it. When everyone is covered, that eliminates the "freeloader" analogy of the uninsured person in the ER.

It's not a perfect plan, single payer true universal healthcare is preferable, but this is much better than Obama's plan, which will accomplish next to nothing outside of children (many of whom can be covered under SCHIP anyway, thanks Hillary), and miles above what we have now.

[flyarm]

28. her plan is to mandate according to income and ability to pay..he has mandates too!

if you would read both their plans..Obama has a hidden mandate writen in..that if his plan does not work..that he will impose a mandate

i can tell you right now..his plan will not work..

young people will opt out..so they can buy their beer and ipods..they think they are invincible..what young person does not think that?

if you want to pay for a bunch of dead beats and people who will game the system..vote for Obama..it is that simple!

you will pay for the dead beats and you will pay for those who will always try to game the system..and Obama's plan will not work..his plan is a guarantee we will never have national health care insurance.


do you just think..that other nations with national health care..that they don't pay for it?? you are delusional if that is what you think..

my hubby worked in Canada for 22 years..we were forced to pay for their OHIP..even though we did not quailfy to use it..but we worked there ..we paid..but it was a sliding scale ..as it would be here under
Hillary( Edwards) plan.

You will be charged what you can afford..prob way less than you would pay now!

so you can decide..do you really want health care..or a new ipod and blackberry..or beer..if you are paying for healthcare now..you are paying through the nose..and if you don't have health care ..and you need it ..you will be costing those of us that are paying for ourselves and you!

you may think you are getting it for free..but believe me..the rest of us are paying for you!

there is no such thing as free.

yes i feel empathy for those who find themselves without health care..and those without it for their children..but i am tired of paying for those who game the damn system

fly

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. So it really sounds like Hillary has the better plan. (And you don't

need to tell me about exorbitant medical costs. My mother-in-law died of cancer but not before spending weeks in the hospital. And my dad, who lives on rather little income now that he is retired, is paying through the nose for meds, hernia surgeries, and ambulance trips to the ER for heart surgery.)

[flyarm]

32. Hillary's plan is almost a copy of Edwards plan..it is the only way we will get close

to universaL HEALTH CARE..IS IT PERFECT..NO..EDWARDS KNEW IT WASN'T PERFECT..HE KNEW IT WAS THE FIRST STEP TO UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE..

opps sorry for the caps my computer keeps slipping into caps don't know why..

anyway..
Obama's plan has no chance of working..and i don't think he wants it to..this way the insurance co's can revisit it and say..looky looky..this doesn't work..

hell no it won't work..without mandates

who here really believe the young people will opt into it?

seriously...

but when they get into a major accident ..who will be paying for them? oh yeah the rest of us.

and when they have their babies..with say a ahdnicap..who will pay..yes those of us who were responsible..and paid for the insurance.



what kind of household insurance do you think we would have if say..people could buy their insurance ..after a fire burnt their house down? or after the Flood..or after the Hurricane..

or after the earthquake and a persons house was gone..oh yeah..let me buy insurance then...sure ...
how would that go over with those who bought it before and paid for it all the years before..would anyone buy insurance again?? i sure as hell wouldn't.. if i could buy it after a catastrophe, and be fully insured. what fool would pay ahead????????? if that was the game plan..

fly

[anamandujano]

17. Even if one were able to fine them, the fine would surely not cover

the care they would be receiving, paid for by everyone else. That is tantamount to NO CHANGE. The crisis goes unchecked.

I know someone who ran up a $60K hospital bill in two weeks, not including the doctors or the surgeon. Then $392 a day, everyday, for 6 weeks radiation therapy. It goes on. This person was very healthy until this episode.

What would that fine be?

[rinsd]

30. Not true.

[sandnsea]

11. That's a long term issue

He believes we need to make sure health care is truly affordable before considering any mandates. He's right. Especially when Hillary offers TAX CREDITS, not premium subsidies.

[nonconformist]

13. You didn't answer the question.

That's because he plans to fine those people at the ER, when they can LEAST afford it. And then who picks up the tab? The rest of us.

[anamandujano]

14. People will be paying a small fraction of their paychecks with Hillary's

plan. Those who don't have even that to give, will not pay anything, like Medicaid.

He already has mandates on parents for their children, 150 million, but the parents may not have insurance. If they get sick under Obama's plan, tough luck for them as well as their covered (BY MANDATE ) children.

With the huge pool of people, everyone in the country, the gov't will be able to set the rules, not the insurance companies. Obama completely misses the strategy of that.

The Tax Credit part of her plan is for people who would function better taking that route.

[sandnsea]

16. What fraction? You have no clue

We do know how much SCHIP costs, it's cheap to insure kids. That's the difference. The tax credit is what is subsidized. You have to wait to get your subsidized tax credit and hope you can pay the percentage until then.

He also regulates insurance companies so they will not be seting the rules.

His plan will meet the same objectives hers does. It just won't put in mandates without being sure there won't be people unintentionally hurt, which usually happens with any govt program.

[anamandujano]

19. His plan will not meet the same objectives no matter how many times

you say it. He has a plan to let things continue as they are now. A little tweaking will not do. The insurance companies are still in charge.

Everybody knows there are people who cannot afford to pay anything, that there are people who can pay very little. That is what they will pay with her plan.

People who are already paying a mint for insurance will end up paying less with better coverage and no preconditions. They can keep their plan if they want but they will most likely know a good deal when they see it and opt on.

He wants to ride her coat tails by saying their plans are just about the same. He knows his plan is inferior and won't even own up to it. That's pathetic.

[sandnsea]

24. You've either never read his plan

or are determined to repeat your Clinton talking points regardless of any facts to the contrary. It is true that 95% of their plans are the same and he's the one who did health care plans in Illinois back in the 90's. So you can't say he is riding Hillary's coat tails at all. You have no idea what amount she means, it will likely be no more helpful than the Hope College Tax Credit was. That was supposed to solve all our college problems too. The key difference in the plan is whether you want to risk being forced to pay premiums you might not be able to afford. Why not wait until the plan is in place, the cost savings start going into affect, and see how cheap we can make it.

[flyarm]

33. i have read his plan front to back and you are worng his plan sucks..and either

you don't understand insurance or you are deliberately not telling the truth..i understand some people don't understand insurance..but you are wrong..his plan will fail..

fly

[HeraldSquare212]

15. same as now.

[PurityOfEssence]

20. We pay for it.

Simple.

[OhioBlue]

23. probably same as now under both plans

just b/c hers has mandates does not mean that uninsured will not show up in the emergency room.

Neither plan is true single payer universal coverage.

IMO - both plans are band aids - what they think they can sell to the Congress and get past lobbyists.. Neither plan will come out as they present it. But both are better than nothing.

[doc03]

26. That's the follow up question the debate moderators

should ask Obama. His so called plan is what we have now, if you don't have insurance the rest of us pay through higher taxes and insurance premiums. How could anyone seriously believe it is fair to not pay for insurance then sign up after you get sick. You don't buy car insurance after you have an accident. If the MSM wasn't in his pocket they would pin him down on it. I think if Obama gets elected I will just buy a new SUV inbstead of insurance and if I get sick you guys can pay.

[flyarm]

34. thank you..you have got it..you are understanding it correctly! eom