Hillary came across as a fighter, Obama barely had a pulse all night

[Herman Munster]

Obviously, DU'ers won't approve of anything she says or does so it's probably even a lost cause posting this as I'll get 30 replies saying how wrong I am, but she wasn't trying to change DU'ers vote.

Her target audience was the women and working class men in Ohio and Texas who feel they need a fighter for them.

And she came across as the fighter.

[NDambi]

1. She failed to get KO..nothing changed.

[sfam]

14. Agreed. Both landed punches...but no major change. But yeah..Barack...

does not dominate debates like he does on the stump. He looks like a regular joe. But again - nothing changed here. No knockout happened. At all.

[lumpy]

55. I think Obama is uncomfortable debating Hillary because he

doesn't have the political experience and the advantage of age that Hillary posseses. Interesting to see how he would hold up with world leaders and representatives.

[ContinentalOp]

84. I think he knows that he just needs to sit back and watch her destroy herself.

I actually find his restraint really frustrating because some of the things she says make me want to scream. But on further reflection I think he's correct to lay back and let the attacks slide.

[krkaufman]

90. Agreed. He comes across as pretty damn Presidential, to me ...

... refusing to get into a screaming match with her. His manner seems calm and deliberate, and, accompanied by informed and wise, I'm OK w/ him as the candidate.

[rodeodance]

146. It portrays itself as SMUGNESS.

[stevietheman]

149. Nonsense. n/t

n/t

[rodeodance]

155. nonsensical response. game done.

[krkaufman]

161. "game done"? n/t

[krkaufman]

160. Or you're one who interprets it that way. As is your right. n/t

[chascarrillo]

2. Okey doke.

[FrenchieCat]

3. And they call Obama supporters delusional!

Ha!

[Clintonista2]

110. Your delusions have nothing to do with you being an Obama supporter

It's more of a character flaw.

[elixir]

152. Okey doke.

[KoKo]

163. no more delusional than those of us..."Neo-Gore"....He's the One..supporters...

Neo-Gore!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4779988

[stahbrett]

4. We'll find out next week - I disagree with you but could be wrong

I don't see her winning by large enough margins to warrant her remaining in the contest, however. She just can't overcome the math problem that's facing her campaign.

[adoraz]

5. I didn't see that, but ok.

I really believe this debate only hurt her.

[Yael]

6. She needed a gaffe. She didn't get one.

I am sorry. :hug:

[elixir]

153. Maybe not a "gaffe" but his debate style leaves much to be desired. Even Tweety and KO, who

have mancrushes on Obama said this is not his "medium". Please, the guy was getting the questions after HRC answered them so that he could say "yeah, what she said."

Pretty weak.

[CatnHat]

164. Was Obama even

awake. His eyes were half closed.

Interesting side-note. Hillary was on PPS Newshour. They devoted almost 15 minutes to her. She was very good, I hope alot of people got to watch her. She talked about real issues facing the average American families. A totally wonderful interview. No mods butting in, just a one-on-one, wow! I like her even more now.

[rodeodance]

165. Hillary is a good teacher---by 2012 Obama will be ready for the WH

[Bicoastal]

7. Seems to me that the PARTY is a bit sick of her.

Have you seen the polling lately? Or will you call that biased as well?

[gateley]

I think she came across more as an attacker, rather than a fighter.

On the other hand, I think Obama could have stepped it up a bit.

[lumpy]

59. Obama makes me snore

zzzzzzzzz

[anamandujano]

102. Yup, vacant.

[Orangepeel]

8. good example of how where one stands depends on where one sits

:shrug:

People on both sides see what they want to see.

[gateley]

17. GREAT saying!

I always liken it to being a witness to a car accident - we each see something different.

[susankh4]

123. That is correct.

And people on either side are LOOKING for entirely different things.

I do have to say that, as a Hill supporter, I thought this was Barack's strongest debate yet. He actually addressed issues. That appeals to me. And, if he is gonna get my vote in Novemebr... he needs to keep it up. More solutions. Fewer sing-a-longs.

I don't want to "get along" with people who hate me and my family (ie. the GOP.) I want someone strong enough to stang up to them.

[indimuse]

127. Obama..."Fixer of souls now...says Michelle O..we have to fix our souls..

"Barack Obama is the only person in this race who understands...that...we have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken....I am married to the only person in this race who can heal this nation.... is going to demand that you shed your cynicism.... Barack will never let you go back to your lives as usual!"

Michelle Obama

And the skies will open up! DO NOT NEED a Pastor...Rev...Savior...in the White House!

[susankh4]

128. I agree....

and Ohio will do it's best! We are working our buts off for Hillary here!

If you can come out and help, plz. do!

[indimuse]

131. thank you!

wish I were there! I got YOUR back! :)

[SammyWinstonJack]

138. ...

:puke:

[grantcart]

9. You keep saying things like that almost every day are you trying to convince us or

are you trying to convince yourself?

[Avalux]

10. Obama was Presidential, Hillary was not.

I'd prefer Obama's calmness to Hillary's frantic "pick me, pick me" any day. She did herself no favors by interrupting and interjecting at every turn.

[jlpohio69]

22. And I prefer Hillary's fight

as opposed to Obama's mono-tone style.

[Blue_In_AK]

34. Me, too. I like her spunk.

These candidates were my last two choices, but I've come to admire Hillary's fight and determination throughout this. When/if she loses the campaign I hope she takes that fire back to the Senate and kicks some ass.

[Auntie Bush]

46. Me three.

[rodeodance]

166. me four

[Auntie Bush]

168. Do I hear a five?

[lumpy]

63. His monotone bothers me, also, clipping his words, and the

downtone at the end of every sentence. Spiritless.

[emilyg]

79. !!!!

[woolldog]

83. He has gravitas.

And I consider him to be more presidential than her.

[krkaufman]

91. Agreed. Personally, I want a calm, deliberate President meeting with other leaders ...

... and not someone who's angry and attacking. He came across as MUCH MORE Presidential, to me.

[Popol Vuh]

116. Ditto

I am pretty sure I'd rather have someone who's calm and collective as opposed to someone who's like a snapping dog controlling the nuclear and conventional forces.

[Rockholm]

136. Obama just agreeded with everything Hillary said.

He stammers on the tough questions.

[rodeodance]

148. "He stammers on the tough questions".----thinking is hard you know

[Rockholm]

157. Not knowing is even harder.

[truebrit71]

11. Nah, she came across as whiney, pushy and irritable...

...now watch people flame me for being 'sexist'....

[lumpy]

68. Well now we know, you are a male.

x

[rodeodance]

167. not necessarily--all gender can use those words to decribe a female

[jefferson_dem]

12. I agree...

with everyone else on this thread who says you are full of shit.

[lumpy]

69. And you are a bad boy for using such a word. Tsk tsk

x

[scheming daemons]

DID A SINGLE VOTE MOVE TO HER TONIGHT? No.... therefore, she lost....

..you'll see.

[Auntie Bush]

49. Are you a f***** psychic?

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

113. He's not, I am

Not a single vote.

[zulchzulu]

13. It's always interesting seeing how crackheads respond to debates

Lots of movements and eyeballs looking around, huh. Get some sleep.

[anamandujano]

104. You shouldn't be throwing that word around. If we used it, we'd

never hear the end of it.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

15. Agreed. She knows what needs to be done. Is America ready for a president who actually

spells out the proposal and then asks for feedback?

Are we the "I'm elected to LEAD, not to READ" country?

[sendero]

120. If she knew what needed to be done..q

.... why hasn't she done it? Her votes supporting the neocon agenda are what her base is sick of, and she JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

16. she didn't seem to be fighting anything?

she seemed to be most of the evening trying to deflect difficult situations?

[thevoiceofreason]

18. Herman - you done jumped the shark

You have lost touch with reality. Hopefully, the judge will say you are compos mentis and allowed to cast a vote for Barack this November.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

114. BURN

See title of post.

[subsuelo]

19. No she didnt she came across as desperate

[sniffa]

20. Wow

I totally forgot you were still a member.

Weird.

[book_worm]

21. they both did well, but Hillary needed more than that

[izzybeans]

23. or just another self-entitled elitist gasbag.

[LSK]

24. talk to us in a week

You will reject and denounce your statement.

[Connie_Corleone]

25. So this is what desperation looks like when the Ignore function isn't working.

:rofl:

[Seeker30]

26. Obama looked like a deer in the headlights a few times

I actually thought he was going to freeze up.

[Oleladylib]

30. he's not far from it.

[lumpy]

74. As president he would have worse situations to face other

than debating with Hillary Clinton. Hope he can continue to keep his cool under the international gun. High flying rhetoric just doesn't fly with international politicians. Bush learned that hard lesson if you recall.

[Abacus]

39. The only deer-in-headlights moment I saw

was when Hillary was asked to name Putin's puppet. I don't disparage her for this, it was an obvious "gotcha" question -- if I want see people answer trivia, I'll watch Jeopardy.

[Auntie Bush]

57. Yeah, he was shocked when he actually got a challenging question

and he didn't like it one bit. That wiped the smile off his face in a hurry. He'd better get used to it or the RW are going to make mincemeat out of him.

[anamandujano]

105. When he had to answer first, he looked uncomprehending. He doesn't

appear to be too quick on the uptake.

Some of his answers were much better than before. You could tell that he had memorized them.

[RiverStone]

27. A fighter on the ropes at the beginning...

And down for the count at the end.

The fight is over - Obama will be our nominee.

Hillary put up a good fight and your a dedicated supporter Herman, but the crowd is going home. The people have spoken.

[K Gardner]

28. Aw, c'mon people. Herman won't be able to post stuff like this much longer. Let's do for him what

Barack did for Hillary tonight and be gracious !

She did come across as a fighter, Herman. And I hope her target audience was inspired by her. I mean that ! :hi: :applause:

[DB1]

36. I agree, take the high road.

[Oleladylib]

29. THANK YOU-AGREE 100%

[Ikonoklast]

31. Whatever.

Ain't gonna change reality, though.

Hillary can't get it done. Move over for President Obama.

[New Dawn]

32. Yeah, Hillary is a fighter...

For giant corporations and billionaires.

[lumpy]

75. And no one owns Obama ?

hahahahahaha

[anamandujano]

106. Not counting Exelon.

[cloud75]

33. if you want a fighter she is a fighter...if you want a bitch you got a bitch

if want someone smart you got smart...if you want a smart ass you got a smart ass.

[DesEtoiles]

35. yeah - he should have been more unhinged

[Abacus]

37. He's cool under fire, one of my favorite of his personality traits. /nt

[Seeker30]

42. Not cool under fire, he just doesnt know what to say if he's not stealing someones speech

[casus belli]

130. Hyuck Hyuck...

Could you, maybe, find some talking points that AREN'T weeks old? Or are you gonna play your plagiarism card til the death?

[lumpy]

77. When have you seen him under fire ? Debating is under fire?

What a laugh.

[Auntie Bush]

38. Right, she will fight for Dem issues and Obama will compromise.

I'd personally prefer a fighter. That's the problem with the spineless Dems in congress now. Obama will probably be afraid to annoy someone and he wouldn't be seen as Mr. Congeniality anymore.

[donheld]

40. "DU'ers won't approve of anything she says or does"

And some others will make excuses for her no matter what she does.

[workinclasszero]

41. Alrighty then...see ya in a week, bring tissues eom

[Kittycat]

43. Hermie is still in the Denial stage.

I'm sure he'll come out of in the next week.

[Auntie Bush]

44. Sorry, you're wrong.

You predicted 30 replies! lol

You also bring up a good point about her trying to appeal to the working class voters. I hope they noticed and weren't working the night shift.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

45. Tim Russert is flagrantly biased.......

He goes into a 5 minute diatribe beating Hillary over the head, then asks a question at the end of it and considers that fair.

She was absolutely right.

Did you hear the question Russert asked Hillary, compared to the soft ass fucking wiffle balls he's throwing at Obama?

Give me a break.

MSNBC has been in the can for Obama since day one. Two of their damn employees had to apologize, and one got suspended, for attacking Hillary on the air.

He will hear from me in the morning.

[mkultra]

64. at this point, i think the entire nation is too

[lumpy]

47. Agreed, Obama doesn't appear to have much fire in his belly.

That is what is needed in the terribly difficult job that lies ahead for the presidential winner. Obama doesn't particularly inspire me since I have heard the same platitudes from pols for many many years. JFK was inspiring because he had that confident personna PLUS that underlying fire in the belly.

[Renew Deal]

48. A fighter to get us into Iraq. A fighter to fail at health care again. A fighter to expand NAFTA.

Lots of fight.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

50. When Obama is not saying "I agree with Senator Clinton"he's rehashing her ideas &making them his own

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[anamandujano]

109. A couple of times I thought she was going to smack him in the head.

How frustrating it must be. Talk about highway robbery; AND ON LIVE TV.

[goclark]

162. According to the polls he is moving on up

Maybe he is doing something right.

Lots of people are loving what he says and how he says it.

:bounce:

[bridgit]

51. Agreed!

[PretzelWarrior]

52. she came across as a bickerer. little different than fighter.

I don't think Americans are ready for another dyspeptic "my way or the highway" president.

[TwilightGardener]

53. Enough with the "Fighter" label. She's not fighting for anything but her political ambitions.

[Common Sense Party]

88. Repeating over and over, ad nauseum, "I'm a fighter," doesn't make her a fighter.

It's just words. Just words.

[BootinUp]

119. Gee, that reads like an opinion from a mind reader. nt

[BenDavid]

54. NDambi, in politics especially in debating you do not have to

knock out your opponent to actually win the debate. The words of HRC tonight did more for her and said volumns against Obama's positions. It will make people stop and think do they really want him as their president with nothing to offer but "change" spoken 40,000 times. HRC was masterful tonight and Obama reminded me as a director of a funeral home. People are taking notice of all that hrc is saying about obama and I hope they come forth next tuesday and stop this empty suit from leading the u s further down this road of despair.....You ever notice how obama reminds one of jimmy carter?

[lumpy]

78. Hear hear Ben

v

[Danger Mouse]

56. spinning like a top...nothing new...

[RoadRage]

58. It's not just DU'ers.. check out the MSNBC Poll..

65% thought Obama did better.. only 30% thought Hillary did. It's not just the political hack wanna be's here on the DU, it was the general (voting) public overall who thought that Obama not only had a pulse - but won the debate.

Obama didn't misprounounce the new leader of Russia's name
Obama didn't whine about having to answer a question first (seriously, how was that going to help?)
Obama didn't look like a blatant flip-flopper on NAFTA
Obama didn't have to explain why Hillary told voters of New York that in 2000 she would increase jobs by 250,000, and then have the region lose over 30,000. And it was nice spin to blame it on Bush.

Obama didn't screw up.. he had some whammy's thrown at him as well (McCain & G.E. Finance, Farrakan, and two opportunities to slay Clinton about her comments & the "picture"). He took the high road, kept his attacks focused against McCain instead of Clinton - and came out looking presidential. At least to 65% of viewers. To those who already have decided it's Clinton or nothing - there is not one word he could have uttered to change your mind, so his comments weren't really intended for you anyway.

[bmartello]

61. amen!

:D

[buff2]

70. Did anyone here ever stop to think that the

freepers are probably busy in all these stupid polls? Really....they hate Hillary almost as much as you people do here in DU. You people need to THINK. Geez...

[RoadRage]

76. Ahh.. that's right, if Hillary doesn't win - it's the damn Freepers.

If Hillary wins, it's because she's awesome.

Ohh.. and note: Freepers - they too get to vote in a general election.

[lumpy]

81. Don't you know how a presidential election works ?

Your post doesn't make sense.

[RoadRage]

87. I do know how it works...

It works like this: In a general election, you can vote for whoever the fuck you want. So those "Freepers" who are saying that Obama won the debate tonight.. those Freepers who you hate. Well, there is a good chance that (based on what many of those freepers are saying) they will be voting for Obama in the General Election.

I know.. the conspiricy that sounds great is that they all vote for Obama now, and McCain later.. but that doesn't really explain how Obama is currently beating McCain by 12 points in a head-to-head match. It sorta sounds like a lot of those Freepers are actually going to vote for Obama.

Which takes me back to my original point.. that most of the people who voted for Obama tonight think that he won the debate. Not because of a conspiricy theory.. but because, well - frankly people thought he won.

[lumpy]

80. Yes, thought of that.

v

[anamandujano]

111. So scientific!

:rofl:

[RBInMaine]

60. BS !

[kid a]

62. See ... here's where total bias changes perspective.

I thought Clinton did well...a little overly concerned with excessive filibustering and defensive debating strategy, while Obama was cool, calm, presidential, firm and overly specific on policy and tone!

Obama kicked ASS tonight!!

[Neshanic]

65. Very much so. Of course I do not have my "Official Obama 3-D Glasses" on.

[SammyWinstonJack]

141. ...

:spray:

[mkultra]

66. i prefer lovers

[Raffi Ella]

67. Yes,she did

She did a great job tonight,I'm really proud of her.

[RBInMaine]

72. In other words, Obama doesn't keep reinventing himself,

So Hillary steals again from John Edwards, and that's ok? It was EDWARDS who talked time and again about being a "fighter". How many lines does she need to steal from Edwards???

[Eurobabe]

73. She lost the male in Ohio vote tonight

It's the tone. I grew up in Ohio and know the "typical" males there.

My Uncle who is a Navy vet, and just retired from Ford after 35 years, 62y/o white male -- is voting for Obama. :woohoo: So is his 61 y/o wife, and their two almost 30y/o kids...

[emilyg]

82. The 2 30 yr. old kids still living at home?

[fedupinBushcountry]

86. I have 30 yr. old and 27 yr. old

boys and a 25 yr. old girl and they are all voting and have already voted for Obama. Now ask me if they live at home just because I have kids.

What a stupid question.

[emilyg]

94. It's not a stupid question.

This lousy economy has forced more kids back home.

[Eurobabe]

89. No the head cardiac male nurse at an NE Ohio hospital

that owns his own home in Amherst, he will be 30 in July, and the Special Ed teacher with her masters who works in Cincinnati with her Ph.D. husband and owns a home in Fairfield, OH.

Nice try though :hi:

[Binka]

115. Emily fails at her comeback

You and I both know that her initial response was sheer bullshit and snark. Her attempt to place that on the economy failed as well. She is grasping at dust. Hey Em don't quit your day job if you have one.

[woolldog]

85. what tone?

what do you mean?

[EndElectoral]

92. I prefer a leader to a fighter, otherwise I'd vote for Sly Stallone

[anonymous171]

93. She came across as a nit-picking silly politician.

I liked how Obama started laughing when she brought up the "denounce/reject" thing.

[k8conant]

95. Pillow fighter maybe ...

in a fake fight.

[jgraz]

96. I don't get the effort here. You surely aren't going to convince anyone.

Are you hoping to sway people who didn't watch the debate?

[Hieronymus]

97. Hillary needs to get rid of that school marm attitude. She has none of ...

the political skills that Bill had.

[Political Heretic]

98. That means he won.

All he had to do was have a pulse and not fuck up.

Check.

Game over.

[boppers]

99. This is not the WWE.

This is the Presidency.

Yelling in front of microphones, throwing tantrums, picking fights... that's pro-wrestling.

Calm negotiation, choosing diplomacy over combat, seeking compromise... that's global politics.

Slight difference between the two.

[BringBigDogBack]

100. Good to have your 'fair and balanced' take on everything, Herman.

:sarcasm:

[casus belli]

101. What a (cough) completely unbiased (cough) analysis. n/t

[Why Syzygy]

103. Working woman in Texas thinks we've had one too many fighters in the WH. n/t

[anamandujano]

112. So the Repukes are just going to hand us change without a fight.

That sounds about right.

[boppers]

117. When it's in their constituency's best interests?

Yes.

Alternately, the politicians will lose their next election (see 2006). win/win.

The thing missing from our side, for so long, was a politician skilled enough in sound-bite culture that they could deliver such a message.

[SammyWinstonJack]

142. It'll be a Miracle!

:silly:

[Jamastiene]

107. She probably doesn't even know DU exists.

Considering the bile for her here, I'm kind of glad for that too.

I agree with you, btw. :thumbsup:

[Fox Mulder]

108. They both bored the hell out of me.

[boppers]

118. Policy is/should not be televised fisticuffs.

This isn't entertainment, it's about setting rules and policies that kill, or help, people.

Literally.

It may look boring, until you realize that a million people have died because of Iraq policy.

Roll that around in your head for a bit.

Add in sanctions, it's 1.5 million people who are now dead, because of... policy.

Visually, it may look boring, but they're discussing, quite calmly, which one of them may kill more people, and for what reasons.

Of course, it may be more boring if the viewer isn't the one to be killed, but since much of my family has been wiped out by politicians 'setting policy', it's a tad more important to me.

[JVS]

121. A fighter in the sense that if you were to ask her how she likes her coffee, she'd get defensive

She fought the easy questions as much as the hard ones. It reminded me of an interview of Nixon where he had trouble answering the question of how his life would be different if he hadn't married his wife. He couldn't just answer it but had to start talking about how life would be very different....

[susankh4]

122. Hillary did what Strickland told her to.

And I will keep my paws crossed that Ted knows Ohio as well as he thinks he does.

Her tough talk did appeal to ME. It was just what I wanted to see! I even called for it in some of my DU posts yesterday.

But, I am not sure many men could handle it. My own DH seems put off by it. Not intellectually. But, viscerally. I think she hits the "mommy button" for him. That worries me a bit.

I saw this as a strong performance by Hillary. On the issues she was top dog for sure.

But, I also saw the best debate of Barack's career heretofore. He is learning well from her.... how to stick to the issues and cut the care bear sing-a-longs.

In the end, I fear, Hillary has done just waht sooooo many women all over this country do: train the men who will become our bosses.

I am heartsick at the prospect that this election is being stolen out from under her.... by the MSM's pandering to Obama. And the party elders (all men)forsaking her.

[Lerkfish]

126. well, you can blame the MSM and men if you want, but the real tragedy is

this nomination was hers to lose going in, and her campaign advisors, and yes, even her husband, sabotaged her chances from within.

Ultimately she bears the final responsibility because she chose these advisors, and she chose to listen to their advice.

I'm sorry your candidate's campaign was disastrously run, but give me a break with this "being stolen out from under her", that's a weak rationalization.

Her campaign was control the message top-down, Obama's was bottom up and I think that is the only way to win in the general, is from an upswelling of citizens involved in the process.

[susankh4]

129. Not true at all.

But then you have perhaps not walked in my shoes. Or Hillary's.

[Lerkfish]

132. and you have walked in Obama's shoes?

not really sure what that has to do with anything.
I have eyes, ears and mind, and I can have my own opinion about a campaign shooting itself in the foot. I don't have to have be female to analyze how a campaign has been run.

[susankh4]

133. No, but I am not dissing him...

In fact, I am praising him. For being a quick study.

What I don't understand is why Obama's supporters can't take a cue from their own leader, and be a little more gracious to his opponant.

[Lerkfish]

137. I'm criticizing how her campaign was run.

:shrug:

and you're blaming her loss on sexism

you're the one who is dissing an entire gender.....right?

[susankh4]

140. I am saying that this has been

harder for her than it needed to be. Because of the party's unwillingness to support her. And the MSM's infatuation with the new guy.

Grow up. It's not about you and your "gender."

[Lerkfish]

144. to quote you directly:

And I will keep my paws crossed that Ted knows Ohio as well as he thinks he does.

Her tough talk did appeal to ME. It was just what I wanted to see! I even called for it in some of my DU posts yesterday.

But, I am not sure many men could handle it. My own DH seems put off by it. Not intellectually. But, viscerally. I think she hits the "mommy button" for him. That worries me a bit.

I saw this as a strong performance by Hillary. On the issues she was top dog for sure.

But, I also saw the best debate of Barack's career heretofore. He is learning well from her.... how to stick to the issues and cut the care bear sing-a-longs.

In the end, I fear, Hillary has done just waht sooooo many women all over this country do: train the men who will become our bosses.

I am heartsick at the prospect that this election is being stolen out from under her.... by the MSM's pandering to Obama. And the party elders (all men)forsaking her.


-----------

yeah, right *I'm* the one talking about gender. you need to grow up at least enough to read your own post.

[Lerkfish]

124. That's about the only positive spin you could put on it --- wrong, but positive

the fact is Obama was unruffled and calm, looking presidential.
Clinton came off whiney (complaining about the order of questions and SNL) and needlessly combative (arguing semantics of "reject" vs. "denounce").
There were places where both were flat-footed, on Russia for example, and both were targets of setup "gotcha" moments by the lame moderators, but ultimately only one of them looked ready to handle the general election, and it wasn't Clinton.

[robbedvoter]

125. I missed the first showing, knew Hillary won when saw Maddow sayint "it was grim"

She said something about McCain being the winner of this one, death of enthusiasm - so I stayed and watched the rerun. She rocked!
And yeah, interesting hos she gets always the first answer, Then he can just say - "That's exactly what I would do" or "she is wrong"

[OhioChick]

134. "Her target audience was the women and working class men in Ohio"

I Fall into That Category and quite honestly speaking.....I'm voting for Obama.
I Don't think that we watched the same debate.

[Maribelle]

135. If anyone watched the Reagan Library debate where McCain creamed Romney over the Iraq timeline ...

there is no doubt that Obama's hand gestures pointing his index finger high in the air, and his rude interruptions will not win him any debate points against the Republican juggernaut, nor will his playing with word games. These tricks will in fact do the opposite, and make him appear as the incompetent rookie.

While Obama has greatly improved over the course of the 20 debates - - he remains terribly weak in this area.

[Lerkfish]

139. LOL! if you want to bring up "finger pointing" that's rich!

I mean, you shouldn't go there.

[Maribelle]

145. And you are commanding me that I 'shouldn't go there' because why?

[Lerkfish]

154. LOL! saying you "shouldn't" is the same as "commanding"? well

I think I see the whole problem with clinton supporter distorted perceptions right there.

If I have to spell out the obvious, Clinton does a LOT of finger pointing as she's debating. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, I just think you need to recognize your own candidate does that at least as much, if not more than Obama.

[MoonRiver]

143. All he did was admit all night how correct Hillary was!

I thought he sounded like a little boy seeking mommy's approval. I didn't get as mad at him as usual, because he wasn't coming across as an arrogant shit for once. But instead he sounded uncertain. He was especially clueless about universal health care. Plus, he had no argument to refute his flip flopping on NAFTA. Maybe he's so confident now he just isn't half trying. Probably thinks it's better not to antagonize Hillary supporters than to aggressively argue his opinions. And then there's always the real possibility that he doesn't have a grip on his policy opinions.

But you're right Herman, there's no point in arguing any of this here. I just wanted to give you my 2 cents. :hi:

[rodeodance]

147. I will chime and say I approve of your last sentence:-)

[elixir]

150. I think she hit homeruns on NAFTA, foreign policy (russia et al) and being a FIGHTER!!!

[stevietheman]

151. I don't want a fighter who attacks a fellow Dem in a mean-spirited manner. n/t

n/t

[chieftain]

156. The one without a pulse is the Clinton campaign. (eom)

[ProSense]

158. Hillary lost the debate

The reviews are in: Obama scores higher, "Won," "Quick on his feet," "Well prepared and focused," "Excellent command"

TIME (Joe Klein): He won. He not only won by not losing, but he also won on points--and on demeanor, and on quickness… LINK

Time (Jay Carney): Hillary Clinton missed some opportunities tonight. Her complaint at the beginning about the format of the debate seemed to fall flat. LINK

TIME (Mark Halperin) …Obama: B+, Clinton: B- “Avoided lofty rhetoric and focused on presenting himself as cool, deliberative, and substantive. Well prepared and focused.” LINK (On Clinton: “Her conviction that the media is biased against her seemed to throw her off throughout, and she was too distracted by her frustration with Obama and the press to truly shine.”)

NBC (Mark Murray): … Obama has an excellent command of his plan and his defense. LINK

MSNBC (David Gregory): … What you see time and time again with Barack Obama is a coolness about him. He absorbs a particular attack or a question or a pointed statement and tries to maybe acknowledge the point and then turn it around.

Washington Post (Chris Cillizza) …Obama successfully parried most of Clinton's offense and even turned some of her aggressiveness against her. LINK

Politico (Ben Smith) “Back to the war”: … it's always been Obama's trump card, and he returns to it tonight LINK

AMERICAblog (Joe Sudbay): … Obama was steady on a broad range of issues … In my view, the win goes to Obama. A clean win. LINK

The New Republic (Michael Crowley): …Obama is quick on his feet and good humored. He also conveys a certain bemused remove from the bizarre conventions of traditional insider politics LINK

ABC (Rick Klein): …Notice that Obama is the first to try to turn the argument to Sen. McCain -- their battle has already begun, if tentatively, and Obama welcomes it. LINK

Who do you think won the debate?

Hillary Clinton 10% 1431 votes
Barack Obama 89% 12059 votes

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

159. Found her to be divisive and trite - Some call that a fighter I guess, others call it Republican....

eom