Milo_Bloom
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Wed Feb-27-08 12:58 AM
Original message |
I watched 2 people convert tonight. |
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We all needed to work late tonight, so we set up a TV at the office and had the debate on as we did some "mindless" computer work... before long we stopped doing the work and just watched.
Me and 3 women.
2 of the women had voted for Clinton in the CA primary... they were not "supporters".. they just voted for her.
The other 2 people voted for Obama (me and the wife). The 2 Clinton voters did not know how I or my wife had voted, as I am their boss and I don't feel it appropriate to broadcast it in the office, but they had both mentioned voting for Clinton in the CA primary.
I was utterly fascinated, as I watched them cringe at Clinton's "pillow" comment. Laugh when Obama talked about a nonsensical distinction between "reject" and "denounce" and just generally not connect, in the least, with the candidate for whom they had voted. As someone just observing their reactions, it was absolutely clear to me, that they were now in Obama's camp... but this was made clear to me when Russert asked Clinton if there was anything she could take back... and one of them blurted out, "yeah, voting for you". The other one started laughing and said something along the line, "OMG, I was totally thinking the same thing."
After the debate they talked about how flustered she seemed and how evasive she was. They felt Obama "owned his positions and even his mistakes" while Clinton was "making excuses" for everything.
I am sure Clinton "supporters" saw it all differently, which was why I was careful to mention that they weren't supporters, they just voted for her in CA... but if this is any indication of how soft support and undecideds will break... I think Ohio and Texas have become a lock for Obama.
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Egnever
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message |
1. I don't think she did herself any favors with her opening |
Milo_Bloom
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
3. Personally, I thought she was off message and in desperation mode... |
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... but I don't like her, so I can't count my reaction to the debate, since it is hardly unbiased... that is why I was tickled pink by the reaction of two previous Clinton voters.
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krkaufman
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Wed Feb-27-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
26. Yeah, starting-off with the victim card made her look weak. |
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... and mixed with the "pillow" comment made her look petty.
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Eurobabe
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:03 AM
Response to Original message |
2. Clinton nailed her coffin tonight with those stupid outbursts. |
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Meet you in Ohio Hillary.
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Milo_Bloom
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
4. I really don't get what she was doing. |
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Did someone think that cushion comment was funny?
Did someone think being a "fighter" is what people want?
If the Obama campaign has shown us anything it is that people are tired of "fighting". They want someone who is just going to fight... they want results and promising to "fight" isn't promising results... it is promising 4 years of divisive anger.
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FlyingSquirrel
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
5. I missed the cushion/pillow comment |
samdogmom
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. Hillary brought up last Saturday's SNL skit! |
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Good grief! It fell very F...L...A...T! Your girl didn't win points with this Flying Squirrel!
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FlyingSquirrel
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
13. Um, she's not my girl |
samdogmom
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
FlyingSquirrel
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
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Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 02:06 AM by FlyingSquirrel
That's a thread created by an Obama supporter to pretty much make nice with Hillary supporters. I was happy to include myself in it. ----- Now if you'd like to dig a bit further into my recent past...... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4757993(Hint: Read the entire post, not just the subject line) :hi: Or you could go a bit further back to a week ago when I changed my avatar to Obama (before making it neutral again) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4656031
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samdogmom
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Wed Feb-27-08 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
23. In that case--I apologize! |
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Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 02:07 AM by samdogmom
You've turned up in so many Hillary threads--it gets confusing. Peace.
On Edit: I'm not trying to start anything--I just thought you were a Hillary supporter from the posts I've read. I was wrong. I apologize. I'm sorry. I was actually being a jerk. BIG APOLOGY!
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FlyingSquirrel
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Wed Feb-27-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
ginnyinWI
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. she was referring to a Saturday Night Live sketch |
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Which was about Hillary and Obama in a debate, and all the people are fawning over Obama and asking him if he's comfy, needs a pillow, etc.
So she actually brings that up in a real debate--unbelievable. I suppose she thought she'd get a laugh. She didn't.
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krkaufman
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Wed Feb-27-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
27. eh, I think it may have been a play for some sympathy votes. n/t |
psychopomp
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
psychopomp
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
FlyingSquirrel
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
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I guess I didn't miss the pillow comment after all, I just didn't think it was as big a deal as some apparently do. I did think she looked a bit silly going off on a rant just because she got asked the question first. She was on the left side after all.
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Tarheel_Dem
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
22. I'm a former Edwards supporter, and that was the turn-off for people |
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I spoke with about his candidacy. Their biggest complaint of Edwards was the "fighting" references. They said he came off as angry. Obama has somehow mastered the art of remaining cool & calm under pressure.
I don't know how many other Edwards people heard this, but it's what I heard , nearly all the time. And Hillary did herself no favors tonight, especially after they played back clips of her mocking Obama and his supporters.
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grantcart
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
12. Oh they are going to meet in Ohio all right |
samdogmom
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:08 AM
Response to Original message |
6. Thanks for the update! |
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Very astute observers, if I may say so myself!
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rexy
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message |
9. I felt the same way as your two employees. |
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I've been undecided for awhile now, but do admit I leaned more towards Obama than Clinton. I think both candidates have flaws, neither are perfect. But I honestly just do not like her tactics and lack of ownership of them. Still, I've tried to remain open minded throughout these debates.
Tonight did it for me. I became one of the "million" and donated to Obama's campaign just now.
I'd vote for either when it comes down to it, but I'm rooting for Obama.
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Cha
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
11. Thanks rexy and Welcome |
City Lights
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Wed Feb-27-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
Cha
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message |
10. That was a very interesting account, |
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Milo Bloom, thank you. I would have been fascinated..I keep waiting and waiting for some of the hilary supporters I know to say something about the way she's been acting.
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scheming daemons
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:21 AM
Response to Original message |
14. How many of the 10 states that Hillary won, do you think would vote differently NOW? |
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I think Obama would win CA, NJ, NH, NV, and NM.
Hillary would still win AR, TN, OK, NY, MA
That's my view.
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Cha
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
20. Maybe if they counted all of the |
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votes for Obama in New York he'd get a much better showing..especially after all the NYT OP-Ed's calling her out for her campaign problems.
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eissa
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Wed Feb-27-08 01:30 AM
Response to Original message |
15. That's been my observation |
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of those who voted here in California. A lot of people who may have followed the campaigns, but are not exactly junkies, voted for who they thought was going to be the inevitable candidate. That's why I think the longer this campaign goes on, the more in benefits Obama. The more people hear him and get to know him, the more likely they are to cast their vote for him. I think that's exactly why the Hillary camp will never agree to a do-over in Michigan and Florida -- they know full well they'd lose.
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krkaufman
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Wed Feb-27-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
30. Agreed re: MI & FL. Though I don't understand how the Clinton campaign's opinion would matter. |
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Shouldn't it be simply up to the DNC, MI & FL to decide?
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AtomicKitten
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Wed Feb-27-08 02:10 AM
Response to Original message |
25. Very interesting exchange. |
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After the debate they talked about how flustered she seemed and how evasive she was. They felt Obama "owned his positions and even his mistakes" while Clinton was "making excuses" for everything. :thumbsup:
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elixir
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Wed Feb-27-08 05:43 PM
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28. Well, in my house, I heard cheering when HRC nailed BO on Afghanistan, NAFTA and being a fighter. |
GarbagemanLB
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Wed Feb-27-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
34. Your house must be full of Hillbots, then. In reality, Obama won that debate. |
writes3000
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Wed Feb-27-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
35. Please stop using the term, Hillbots. It's annoying and silly. n/t |
goldcanyonaz
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Wed Feb-27-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
37. Yeah, but you're with normal people, you know the ones that care about issues. |
writes3000
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Wed Feb-27-08 09:52 PM
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39. Ah, so Obama supporters aren't normal and don't care about issues. Nice. n/t |
karynnj
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Thu Feb-28-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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My husband said - "hearings on Afghanistan in the Europe subcommittee, who has the committee that includes Afghanistan, shouldn't they have the hearings? \
Me - "It's Kerry and he had them and the full committee did too)
17 year old with a summer birthday - "Do you think HRC knows that"
Her parents, in unison - "Yes"
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NeedleCast
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Wed Feb-27-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message |
31. Great Point in your Post |
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And I think you're exactly right. It's the democrats who just voted for the democrat they knew best that are turning. They're the ones turning the polls in Texas and slimming the lead in Ohio. I don't remember ever seeing such radical polling shifts over such a short time unless a candidate committed a major gaff.
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elixir
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Wed Feb-27-08 06:17 PM
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32. Obama really hurt himself with his less than dynamic debate style and a tendency to parrot HRC |
bagimin
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Wed Feb-27-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
33. He hurt himself right into the whitehouse |
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last night.This race is over. She's lost 11 in a row and Texas now looking very bleak,Ohio getting close and she's lost her huge lead in Pa.= fin ito.
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goldcanyonaz
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Wed Feb-27-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message |
36. The people at my office loved the pillow comment. I'm in Arizona though, so our votes don't count. |
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Been told that a few times here.
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writes3000
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Wed Feb-27-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
38. Of course, your opinion and your votes count... |
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I don't think there is just one way all people would have perceived Clinton's comments.
If you agree with them, you applaud her. If you're neutral, it may seem aggressive and angry. And if you disagree, she probably came off as whiny.
I don't think the comments were a big win for her or a big loss.
Your votes count just like everyone else's.
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Milo_Bloom
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Thu Feb-28-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
40. Were they "supporters" or just "voters" |
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There is a huge distinction here. Obviously "supporters" of either Clinton and/or Obama are going to see things one way.
What I found interesting is that these people were the classic "soft support" that swings elections. They voted for Clinton, but after watching the debate, wouldn't do it again.
One of them was having trouble deciding between McCain and Clinton in the GE (when she still thought CLinton was going to win) because she didn't see a difference between them.
IN short, these are not political activists... or the majority opinion in the office (which I don't know everyone's position) they just happened to be the 2 people who stayed late to finish some work up that night and wound up watching the debate with me and the wife... these are the everday voters... the swing votes... the undecidededs who everyone covets.
They expected far more from Clinton, especially with her meet me in Ohio comments getting round the clock news coverage. They expected her to come out and make a stand... they obviously didn't feel she did and what they did see turned them off.
I am sure not everyone agrees.. but here it is... her core support... women.. turning away from her and I offered it to explain what you are currently seeing now in Texas, Ohio and Penn.
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goldcanyonaz
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Thu Feb-28-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
41. Just voters, and many of them are men. |
Milo_Bloom
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Fri Feb-29-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
45. Given the universal reaction of the crowd and everyone I have spoken to... |
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... I seriously doubt the veracity of that statement.
That pillow comment, at best, fell flat and made her look petty... at worse, single handedly cost her the debate and the nomination.
No one, who isn't a rabid supporter, thought it was great.
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LostinVA
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Thu Feb-28-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message |
42. "I watched 2 people convert tonight" |
Bluebear
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Fri Feb-29-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
LisaM
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Thu Feb-28-08 01:57 PM
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44. And how did the rest of the crusade go? |
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Did they faint? Did you have to loudly search for a bottle of water to revive them?
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barack the house
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Fri Feb-29-08 01:52 AM
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47. It's a beautiful thing when people see the light and truth. The truth is love.... |
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Edited on Fri Feb-29-08 01:56 AM by barack the house
On various occasions one camp has lied over the other, so if the truth is love what does the message send out.
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Hillary_Hillary
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Fri Feb-29-08 01:59 AM
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48. "Conversion"...That's what happens in cults... |
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