I'm tempted to change my vote next Tuesday to Clinton. Seriously

[cali]

Edited for all the lazy gits who can't be bothered to read to the end of the post: I am not changing my vote. I still strongly believe that Obama is the best candidate. Other than that, I stand by my extreme disgust at the sexism that's rampant here.

The sexism is so overwhelming that it's gotten to me, and out of solidarity, I'm strongly tempted to vote for her. It's true as can be that the press has treated her shamefully. I listened to "On Point" yesterday and the spent an hour on it with Geraldine Ferraro and others. Anyone who can't see that the MSM has treated Clinton unfairly is blind. And on DU? Way before I decided to support Obama I wrote posts about the sexism here, and the tolerance for it. And I got scoffed at, just as her supporters now are being scoffed at. But all of it is true. Jeezus H. Christ, I even saw her called "her thighness" on a thread today. That just enrages me beyond my ability to express it.

I'm at a point where I think everyone here should call out the sexist clap trap, and I think you're guilty of bias if you don't.

OK, I won't be voting for Clinton on Tuesday, but that's largely because I vowed 4 years ago to never vote for a candidate in the primary who voted for the IWR, but I've learned a lot about how prevailent sexism is in the progressive community and I wish to hell I hadn't.

[LadyVT]

1. This is a good AP video on that

http://video.ap.org/v/Default.aspx?f=MOEED&g=c0759e5c-aa68-4864-8f6e-8f678e104a91&t=s201&rf=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ap.org%2fOVN%2fvideo.html&fg=tool&partner=en-ap

[cali]

4. I don't need a video

and I'm much more of a written word sort of person. I'm just angry and disappointed by the blatant and ugly bigotry. And that's exactly what sexism is.

[Labors of Hercules]

44. Stay the course, Cali...

It is not fair to Barack to allow some asshole's sexist garbage to convince you that Hillary will be a better president than he will any more than it is fair to Hillary to allow racist comments to convince you to vote for Barack... He is not a sexist and Hillary is no racist.

I feel very strongly that if Barack secures the nomination, he will reach out for a strong Woman to be the incumbant VP in 2016.

You are a fantastic supporter for what is really at the heart of Obama's campaign. Don't let that go because of a few ignorant people who profess to "support him"... That's probably what they actually want you to do anyway.

[LadyVT]

135. It's a video on gender in the race; interviews women, it's independently made

[misanthrope]

35. LOL! "She worries about the household chores?!"...

...Don't you mean, "She worries whether her servants are getting the chores done?"

One day the child who said that will learn about the class system here in America and that the Clintons are in an upper one.

[susankh4]

55. It was not a child

it was a politician. A woman politician.

[misanthrope]

122. You're right...

...I guess it got lost in the endless parade of college students.

But I was mistaken. That certainly was a young woman politician who seemed to be reinforcing patriarchal, sexist gender roles with her statement that a female would naturally be preoccupied with housekeeping and grocery shopping.

[gateley]

2. There is sexism and there is racism. It's shameful. But not a reason to vote

for a candidate who might become the President of the United States of America.

[crispini]

3. It's pretty bad. I agree.

I've given up and am putting all the asshats and wiseasses on ignore. Everyone who says something that is mean gets on the list. I'm enjoying myself a lot more here these days.

I expect to get a few more from this thread. ;) Don't let the bastids grind you down! :D

[thevoiceofreason]

33. You are one of the most level-headed people here

I know you are in Texas from the Texas forum, but I don't even know who you support. You are a class act among democrats!

[crispini]

72. LOL, thanks!

I'm for the Democrat! :D

SD-23 Chair Ken Molberg even said something about this last night at a precinct convention training -- after this is all done, and they go home, we're still going to be here and we still need each other. I think we Texans are definitely very aware of that! It's still kind of red down here, after all! :rofl:

[thevoiceofreason]

76. Kind of?

I have a precinct with 2685 registered voters (no big change there) and we had 278 votes for Chris Bell -- a number that shocked me! Our precinct went 78% Bush in 04. That's red.

[crispini]

83. Have you checked your Democratic early voting numbers yet?

You may be surprised. Have you SEEN what's going on Collin County? Amazing.

[thevoiceofreason]

103. We don't have those numbers by precinct yet

But Harris County is wacked out.

End of 8 days of early voting:

Early votes: 95,997
Mail-in ballots already received: 2,983
Total: 98,980

Mail-in ballots outstanding: 8,850

Total total: 107,830

I think we need a bigger boat.

[crispini]

112. Ye cats.

Yay! All those Democrats! :)

Or at least, people we get to put on our party mailing list, LOL. :D

[NJSecularist]

5. Go vote for HRC then. We won't stop you.

If you are going to switch your vote based on what somebody says on this forum, that is absurd. And frankly, quite hollow. This is a grandstanding post at its worst.

[Maddy McCall]

8. Read her whole post.

[NJSecularist]

15. I did. It's either she is going to vote for HRC or she isn't.

This is just a grandstanding thread. Put the people who you believe are "sexist" on ignore and then let's move on.

If you like Hillary so much, then vote fr her. But voting for her based on what her opponent's supporters say is just absurd.

[griffi94]

26. voting for her based on what her opponents say is absurd

but voting against her based on what they say is alright? i'm sorry but it is my humble opinion that you can judge a candidate pretty well by the kind of people he draws support from.

[NJSecularist]

32. No, actually you can't. And it's absurd to think otherwise.

There are what, maybe 1000 supporters of Obama here on DU? And how many popular votes has he gotten total? A couple million. The members here are a miniscule percentage of Obama's support.

[griffi94]

51. well maybe you can't

but i can and do. how i pick who i vote for is up to me, and for me that includes the kind of people his movement attracts.

[The Anti-Bush]

34. NO, you couldn't have read the whole post

Otherwise you would have read where the OP said their vote would be for Obama regardless because he didn't vote for the IWR.

[MoonRiver]

49. Spoken like a true sexist.

And, btw, she said she wasn't going to vote for HRC, that she was just enraged by the BLATANT SEXISM on this board. You are a fine example of what she was talking about.
:thumbsdown:

[rodeodance]

63. "OK, I won't be voting for Clinton on Tuesday,"---here, your OUTRAGE is showing.

[crispini]

10. Aha! nt

[cali]

11. Nothing to say about the grotesque sexism that's played out?

And try reading. I make it clear in the OP that I'm not voting for Clinton. Furthermore, it's not grandstanding, it's disgust for bigotry. Perhaps you have more tolerance for it than I do.

[NJSecularist]

22. What do you want me to do about it?

Some of you people are offended over anything negative that is sad about Hillary simply because she is a female.

Just put the friggin people on ignore and let's discuss the issues instead of another grandstanding thread like this. This forum is full of grandstanding threads.

There are ignorant people all over this forum. Just put them on ignore and move on.

[bellasgrams]

93. NJS, it is not just because she is female, it's because people are

so nasty and say such terrible things that don't have an ounce of truth . Many negative posts are just plain insulting and not even related to politics. It appears that many BO supports are just not the kind of people you would want to be in the same room with.

[dansolo]

165. I wouldn't want to be around the rabid supporters of either one

Clinton supporters have been just as vile and pig-headed.

I am still pissed off at the way Dean supporters were treated here at DU 4 years ago, and I suspect that quite a few of those people who attacked us are currently supporting Clinton.

[lastliberalintexas]

172. Some, but not all

I've seen some of the worst offenders from 04 are actually supporting Obama. Including one who was very loud about the Dean following being a cult, ironically. :)


This year has been such a nice change of pace, not having a horse in the race and not caring which one wins. Both are good decent people with plenty of faults, but each will advance the issues I care about at least somewhat. I just wish some of the more rabid partisans could see that too.

[Adelante]

21. She's not switching her vote - read the OP

I do understand what Cali's talking about. I'm not conflicted enough to vote for Hillary when I want Barack to be president, either, but the sexism associated with this primary season is pretty sickening.

[cali]

Thank you, WesDem for getting what I was trying to

convey. As I said in my OP, I won't be voting for her either, and I don't think she's the best candidate, but the bigotry and hate based on gender has really gotten to me.

[emilyg]

43. Read - then react.

[woolldog]

140. Totally agree with that.

People take this forum waaaaay too seriously. Allowing whether you like the people here to effect your vote?

I think that's crazy.

[yardwork]

141. Does it occur to you that your response tends to reinforce the OP's point?

[Straight Shooter]

6. I would vote for Obama if the racism were as pernicious against him as sexism against HRC. n/t

[MercutioATC]

7. Yes, sexism is wrong...and HRC may currently be a victim of it.

may

However unfair that may be, would you change your vote and support a less-desirable candidate (since Obama is your first choice) based on that unfair treatment?

I do understand what you're saying, but I don't see the wisdom of voting for a candidate based on the way the media treats them.

[Maddy McCall]

9. Read her whole post.

[MercutioATC]

13. I did. Yes, I know she's still voting for Obama. I was questioning the motivation

to change votes, whether actualized or not.

[The Anti-Bush]

37. You are just being petty now. n/t

[MercutioATC]

162. ??

I thought it was a legitimate question.

If you've chosen your "best" candidate, why would you consider switching to the inferior candidate just because they were being picked on unfairly?

[rodeodance]

84. you have no clue do you.

[susankh4]

64. Actually, yes....

Yes I would tend to vote for an underdog. Especially if the two candidates were very close on the issues.

Because I believe in having a diverse electorate. And in having minorities represented.

[backscatter712]

12. There will always be idiots on the Internet.

And quite often, I'm one of them.

Don't let them get to you. Neither you, nor I, nor Obama can get the net.idiots to think first before they speak.

Look at Obama himself. How has he behaved? IMHO, he's very classy. He doesn't resort to cheap misogynism - he focuses on the issues and remains cool, collected and polite.

But that's just me.

You and I both agree on the IWR vote - Clinton still hasn't taken responsibility for that, nor for other votes like Kyl-Lieberman.

[bellasgrams]

96. They asked her last night if she had any regrets and she said

yes, the vote on Iraq. How much more does she need to say?

[Whisp]

105. she regrets it didn't turn out like she hoped - for herself.

she did not in any way make an apology or admit that it was a grave error in judgement.

[griffi94]

14. i was for edwards

and after he dropped out i didn't have a real opinion either way, figuring both would be good. i don't feel that way anymore.
i was listening in on the teevee show this morning, the one with whoopie and the rw woman whose husband is a football player, sorry i don't know the name of the show, but they had a list of things that had been said about hillary in the media just this primary season, it was beyond disgusting, and then to come in here and see the same old tired not based in reality attacks that i got to see for the last 16 years. it's just pathetic. also the posters here who so gleefully pile on about absolutely nothing. imho only true believers can hate that much, and i'm convinced that it's more about hillarys gender than her politcs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Hillary Is A Fundamentally Decent Person...

She has run a poor campaign...

She has been ill served by many members of her senior staff...

But none of that negates the fact that she has been treated unfairly by the press and the sexist attacks are revolting...

[Auntie Bush]

57. The trouble is the sexism and hateful comments were prevalent

when everyone (including Matthews) commented of her great run campaign.

The sexism has always been rampart and at this rate no woman will ever be
president until we have some sort of media overlook on fairness or we have more female talking heads with some clout.

[subsuelo]

17. changing your vote won't solve things

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. you should. people here can scream what they want, but obama reminds me most of a

younger and prettier bill clinton.

hillary has always had more substance than bill.

anyhow vote as you wish, regardless you will still be amongst my favorite obama supporters.

[griffi94]

45. not trying to start any flamewar

but i wish obama reminded me of a younger prettier bill clinton.
unfortunately, he reminds me more of a younger more articulate george w bush.
he seems to be saying things that appeal to every side of every issue, and that scares the hell out of me because he hasn't been on the national scene long enough for me to accurately judge where he might go next.
i understand the hope and change format is very attractive to people who have had to live thru the last 8 years, but bush ran on that same message of change...he was a uniter, he would restore honor and dignity, the grownups were back in charge, gore trusted the federal government, while bush trusted the american people.
for me it's just too damn creepy, kind of like a funhouse mirror.

[Lerkfish]

19. "you can put any kind of label you want on an empty jar"

I remember that line from a sermon when I was a kid. The sermon was about a parishioner who tried this church and then that church and then came back to the original church, and then the minister told it didn't matter, because you can put any label you want on an empty jar.

If you promised yourself 4 years not to vote for anyone who voted for the IWR, then you forgot that promise as recently as one year ago when you were one of the more vocal Clinton supporters.

:shrug:

[cali]

39. Ridiculous as ever, I see. I never supported HIllary Clinton

for president, and scour as you will, you'll never find a single post of mine that indicates in the slightest that I did. You are consistently full of it and less than honest. I have long defended Clinton against sexist bullshit. I know sexism doesn't bother the likes of YOU. I've seen enought of your posts to know that. Furthermore, I wasn't posting here a year ago, dear. I didn't post on DU from March til August.

[Lerkfish]

114. you have proof to back up your accusations of me as sexist?

I'd appreciate links to those, thanks.

[cali]

115. I didn't call you sexist. And you better damned well

first provide links to any statement of support that I ever made of Clinton- which you won't find, because I never supported her. I'm sick of people who make shit up, here and elsewhere. What I said, was that from your posts, I gather sexism doesn't bother you. That's not the same as saying you are a sexist. I have never seen you condemn it. And there's been a shitload of it on DU.

[Lerkfish]

144. I have always condemned sexism.

and my apologies for assuming you were a hillary supporter.

[UndertheOcean]

20. "her thighness" ???? That deserves a tombstone..

yuck

[JimGinPA]

23. The "her thighness" Quote Was From A Troll...

And I truly don't believe Barack is the least bit sexist. It's a little harsh to blame him for being supported by overly enthusiastic idiots & roaming trolls IMHO.

:loveya:

[bullwinkle428]

40. Because "non-troll" Obama supporters have never said anything sexist about Hillary?

And it didn't sound like Cali was blaming Obama in any way for the sexist garbage being tossed around...

[JimGinPA]

Not To Bicker...

But the one mentioned in the OP specifically was a troll. And the "garbage being tossed around" is coming both ways. But thanks for trying to be helpful. :eyes:

[bullwinkle428]

131. And thank you for doing a bang-up job to prove Cali's point!

:sarcasm: :applause:

[Coexist]

24. there are a lot of people who are emboldened by their anonymity on DU

they get the most attention - most here are not like that.

When I surf other sites and blogs, and I come back here, I am always amazed at the childishness here (and of course, I am guilty, too). Idiocy breeds idiocy.

Like anything, keep the best, discard the worst.

[AtomicKitten]

25. I think the isms have been overplayed gratuitously in this campaign.

[NJSecularist]

28. Agreed. Some people will be offended by anything.

I think some of these people really need to grow some thicker skin. Welcome to the real world, ladies and gentleman.

[AtomicKitten]

56. indeed and much of it I suspect is subterfuge

[shaniqua6392]

27. You are speaking for women everywhere Cali.

We can not stand by silently. I know it will not change your vote and that is understandable. I wish more people would point this out. It is not just on DU. It is all over the media too. I guess this country can accept an African American man before it accepts any woman. I was hoping I would live long enough to see sexism disappear. It seems racism may be tampered down long before sexism. We have not really "come a long way, baby". I don't really care which candidate gets the nomination, but I wish Senator Clinton would have had a fair trial. Thanks for your stand in solidarity for women.

[beachmom]

147. She doesn't speak for me. And I can imagine a lot of women disagree

with this "Hillary is the victim of sexism" meme. It's ridiculous. She is a U.S. senator and was formerly the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination. It was mistakes in her own campaign for why she is where she is. The idea that she is a victim is hyperbole.

[eridani]

177. Her campaign mistakes don't cancel out the really vile sexism in the media

It was there when she was the frontrunner and presumptive nominee.

[terrya]

29. Thank you and recommended.

I seriously appreciate you saying that.

I read this stuff here...the "her thighness" is a perfect example...and it sickens and disgusts me. You can be against Hillary for other reasons...policy, her record. But goddammit, don't peddle sexist shit on DU. We're better than that. Or should be.

[CatnHat]

106. And Obama

supporters who resort to personal attacks on Hillary, are the same ones; who don't know a damn thing about politics, policies, and what this country really needs. And then they wonder why no one takes them serious;y?? Grow up. This is not American Idol.

[Submariner]

30. A lot of newbies on the board cali

I have made the same observation too, but most appear to be from the newbie "bomb-throwers". They troll to raise the discontent.

My guess is they will stick around for this close race between Obama and Clinton, but drift away when they see the that Obama is going to landslide McCrazy.

Hang in there.

[totodeinhere]

31. You should vote for who you think will be the better prez.

You shouldn't base you vote on what certain supporters of either candidate say or do. Clinton can't help it that a few of her supporters might be racists. Likewise, Obama can't help it that a few of his supporters might be sexists. This is a historic campaign between a woman and an African American. Of course this circumstance is going to bring both racists and sexists out of the woodwork.

[ginnyinWI]

36. Fortunately Obama isn't like some of his fans here at DU. nt

[beachmom]

38. There have been a few objectionable posts here, but as a woman,

that's a pretty stupid reason to vote for or against someone. Look, my sister is an engineer where she works nearly 100% with men. There is probably some sexism at her work, just because there are few women there. But she never complains about anything and is very successful. We WILL have a woman president in America, but when we do, she'll be more like Barack Obama -- he just refuses to play the victim. When a woman comes forward and is tough and smart and a great leader AND she lets it all roll off of her, that woman will win. Maybe Hillary has a point about the media, maybe she doesn't. But to sit there and complain about being treated unfairly in a presidential election. I mean, please: that doesn't show leadership or grit.

[Cha]

48. Good post, beachmom..

I thought cnn was all clinton in the beginning of this primary at least? I don't have m$$$m and wouldn't watch it if I did but from reading DU it seemed like cnn was there for clinton in the debates?

[cali]

54. Try reading for comprehension

I say clearly in the OP that I'm not changing my vote. I hate bigotry. I don't give a shit whether it's racism or anti-semitism or anti-Muslim or sexism, and it disgusts me to see so much of it in the media and here. That's all that this is about. You want to excuse it? Fine. I won't.

[beachmom]

129. I know you said that, but to even hint that you considered changing

your vote based on some yahoos on DU or even in the MSM -- well, I don't understand that. Nobody is "excusing" it, but in the end, this race is about who you think will be the best president. The riff raff is testing that person. As a Kerry supporter, I found the attacks on John Kerry and his military service to be the most despicable thing I have seen in politics. I thought it was outright evil and patently unfair. I didn't see Kerry stand up in a debate and complain about the media coverage (who aided and abetted the smear) and cite The Daily Show showing how unfairly he was treated; instead, he destroyed Bush in three debates, and came damned near close in winning. To this day, I admire him for showing that grit and coming back after a rough summer.

There is NO EXCUSE to lie about a veteran's military service. There is NO EXCUSE to use racism or sexism against a candidate. But the fact is this stuff happens in campaigns, and with it a candidate is tested. Obama has carried himself very well, and refused to play the victim.

[cali]

130. it's called a rhetorical device

my mistake was in thinking that people here would recognize it as such. It's a very commonly used trick in the writer's bag. And no, I don't think you can compare what happened to Kerry to what's happening to Clinton. I've never seen anything in a primary season like the level of hate directed at Hillary Clinton.

[beachmom]

146. Okay, I disagree about "the level of hate directed at Hillary Clinton".

I see her given chance after chance despite all of Obama's wins and comfortable delegate count. Of course, I don't watch cable all day, which I actually don't recommend to anyone. And DU is set up so that the worst comments are the most prominently displayed. If someone puts up a hate post (which doesn't quite cross the mod line), then it gets 100+ comments telling them where to go, thereby kicking it over and over again.

[Hoof Hearted]

158. You know what's stupid?

Not bothering to actually read someone's post before hitting the "reply" button and then trying to worm your way out of it afterwords.

[BeyondGeography]

41. Don't be silly

(Was that sexist?)

[goldcanyonaz]

42. Remember when you stated that the party wasn't severed? It is, and mostly over the rampant sexism.

Many women are pissed off enough to not even vote, and I've heard many say they are going to cross over to the other side in order to tell send the party a big Fuck you come November.

I, for one won't be crossing over, but I'm also not sure if I won't be busy come election day.

[Stand and Fight]

117. It's not just women.

Many men feel that same way -- or have had thoughts of it -- including myself.

As a professed feminist, I think the rampant sexism on this board has sickened me to such a level that I am really wondering if there are not as many idiots and nut-cases on DU as there is on FreeRepublic.

[maddiejoan]

137. I might just decide to do some

"woman's things" that day.

[lastliberalintexas]

174. I really hope that's not the case

The women's vote is what has handed the Dems the last several elections we've won. I don't think that women will defect in large numbers, but I do think there should be some soul searching in the party for the next several years on many issues, not the least of which is the sexism on display in this campaign.

[Lannigan]

46. Thank you

for putting into words what I have trouble doing. I'm totally disgusted by it. I came to the DU looking for civil discussions of the two candidates, and see the same sh!t I've seen everywhere else on the internet...disgusting back and forth and a LOT of sexism in regards to HRC.

[thevoiceofreason]

82. It is a problem with open forums like this

It is a shame that a very tiny minority (especially if you would remove the persons who are disrupter plants) can make it seem like an entire campaign is slanted or skewed.

My view is to look to the candidates. Hillary doesn't have a racist bone in her body (and, for that matter, I dopn't think Bill does either). Similarly, I don't think Barack has any sexist inclinations at all.

[JackORoses]

47. Do you think Obama is sexist or a bigot?

Why should your support for him be affected by the actions of others?

If you really believe he is the best candidate, you would be selling yourself short to disregard this.

[cali]

58. Of course not. And try reading. I state clearly in the OP

that I'm not changing my vote. I was trying to impress on people like YOU who disgusting I find bigotry and that's just what sexism is. In fact, you should get a large degree of credit for my fury: It was your fucking asshole post that triggered my rage about this.

[JackORoses]

85. I know you aren't changing your vote. The questions were rhetorical.

"It was your fucking asshole post that triggered my rage about this"

You know that my post had nothing to do with the real bus accident that occurred today.
I didn't find out about that until after I posted, and when I did, I adjusted my post to note this and express my regret.

I made the image last night after the debate. If you want proof, here is where I posted it last night: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4790744&mesg_id=4791484

It was a direct representation of the "Bus in the Ditch" Iraq War Metaphor.
It was not in any way bigoted or sexist.
It was meant to be funny.

Granted it was humor at the expense of Hillary. But is that so wrong with that?

There is no reason to be furious about this.
I would really hate for any misinterpretation of my intent to weaken your support for Obama.

[Whisp]

50. I've been reading DU for quite a while now and this is nothing new...

sexist, homophobia, rascism has always been here in some % or other.

undoubtedly there is far more now directed at Hillary (but to be honest a lot of it isn't really outright sexism but sme people will make new definitions for it) but how many times in the past has there been pile ons on Ann Coulter in a most cruel sexist way that was somewhat condoned by the community because it was 'funny' and against an 'enemy'.

I find that pattern here too often.
Same for the Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones threads that pop up here once in a while. They are often called many awful names from bimbo to just plain dumb, etc.- they are defined by Bill and his sexuality - as holes and not human beings.

and Monica. She is still reviled around here - and also defined as a 'hole' that made things uncomfortable for great old big dog without any self control. I don't think I've ever seen such a hateful mob after an individual in the media and everywhere. Why? why was she the one who had to go hide in shame and have the name Monica turned into a nasty adjective? Bill sure isn't hurting much now on that count, is he?

so I'm all for not saying sexists things, but for me that should include every woman, not just the ones we find 'acceptable' here.

but still, I can slip once in a while, and probably have. You must consider that sometimes its difficult to retrain what you have been told by society and the media, etc., at large for so many years. I have wiped a few words out of my vocabulary for this reason, but it's an ongoing process.

It's not all that long ago that I truly understood the toxicness of calling a woman a 'bitch' and there is no equal slight against a man with just one word that includes so much distain and historical hate and fear.

thanks for making this post.

[griffi94]

81. you raise a very good but subtle point

sexism has always been, at least to some degree, ok as long as it was directed at katherine harris, ann coulter, or other women deemed to be the enemy. my question would be when did hillary become the enemy to democrats. i think it's possible that simply by running a competitive campaign against her male peers she became the enemy. many people here hate her because last year she was the chosen one, but they don't seem to hate obama since he's become the chosen one. and while i certainly have objections to some of her senate votes, she didn't vote any differently than a lot of other democratic senators, and i don't get the same hate vibe regarding them.

[Whisp]

98. my choice was based on the IWR.

carved in stone.
Kucinich was my guy at the start and I reluctantly (but now thankfully) switched to Obama.
I would never have supported Edwards (he has many good qualities but that is my line in the sand, The Vote) or Anyone who gave the nod for that fiasco.

whether they apolozied for it or not.

That was too big of an error in judgement or selfish wants for simple 'forgiveness'.

it doesn't get any more complicated than that for me and on that, Hillary will never get my support no matter how sexist some people may be.

and yes, Obama voted for funding, but let's not get into that apple and orange throwing about, because there is a Huge difference in the two votes.

[Hoof Hearted]

164. I read your post and my first thought was "bastard."

When you said there is no equal slight against a man I thought, what about bastard? But you are correct. Literature and lore provides us with many examples of men described as "magnificent bastards." It's a term that is sometimes given to a kind of rugged romanticism and barely begrudged admiration.

[Why Syzygy]

52. whew on the vote catch.

And, yes. Sexism is rampant. What, you haven't seen a beer commercial lately?

I'm glad you realize it.

[Occam Bandage]

53. The sexism is out of control here, and it's mostly new users. I think it's mostly

trolls coming over here to gloat.

[Whisp]

111. how about the sexist remarks against Monica, Ann Coulter, Katerine Harris, etc..

I've been reading DU for a while now and know well how these women have been treated here.
so I say there is probably not much more sexism now here in this forum, it's just targeted to one individual.

would you defend Coulter, Monica and Harris against sexists remarks that Hillary is getting?

have you in the past?

I've noticed some people (not meaning you specifically, Occam) that like to jump on the sexist bandwagon only if defendng the 'right' kind of woman

[Occam Bandage]

173. I'll admit that

I have in past mockingly questioned the gender of Ann Coulter, and that kind of action probably does lead to this kind of environment.

However, I will say at the same time that Ann Coulter is the only female figure I have treated like that. I've defended the Bush twins against sexist remarks, but I showed up here during this primary season and as such haven't seen much bashing of non-Democratic women.

[donheld]

59. You are going to vote based on what

fools at DU say?

[cali]

62. No. I'm not. And you'd be better served by reading the whole OP

in which I state clearly that I'm not changing my vote.

[thevoiceofreason]

69. It is an unpleasant situation, I agree.

I sense that the vitriol and poor word judgment will abate after Tuesday.

At least I hope so.

[mtnsnake]

60. If you vowed you'd never vote for anyone in the Primary who voted for the IWR

then how can you vote for someone who claims to be anti-war, never had the CHANCE to vote for the IWR, yet votes to FUND the war each and every time a vote comes up in the Senate to keep the war going on? :shrug:

[cali]

65. He didn't vote for it. Period. And he has NOT voted to fund it each

time. You are parroting a stupid meme. He's supported all the legislation that mandates getting out of Iraq. He opposed the war from the beginning. YOU are disingenuous and I'm not in the mood for it. bye bye.

[mtnsnake]

That's odd. Then why did Barack agree w/Hillary last night when she said they both voted to fund it?

YOU are disingenuous and I'm not in the mood for it. bye bye.

Does that mean you're upset with me for politely asking you an honest question in my other post, and does "bye bye" mean "goodbye" or does it just mean "so long, until we meet again"? :shrug:

[rodeodance]

68. many here have made their assesment based on the NON-existant non-"vote"

[snooper2]

61. It's just the Internets Cali

I wouldn't hold DU up as being represenative of the "progressive" community...

Now, if for example you go to the Dallas Peace Center in person, that's a different story :) :hi:

[FrenchieCat]

66. Maybe there is a lot of sexism, but

If Obama had come 3rd in Iowa, he would be history.
If Obama had lost 11 in a row and had not won a contest in a month, he would be asked why is he still there taking up space.

In context, I disagree with your stance because I look at who is being questionned by the AP on their patriotism, versus who is allowed to state ....."voting for me because I'm a women is a good thing"....

Meanwhile the Black candidate is not able to say..."voting for me because I'm a Black man is a good thing". This only means we still have a long way to go, and that women are still a majority of the population in this nation, while Black People make up about 12%.

Women were given the right to vote in 1919.

Blacks were given the right to vote in 1868, and have had to fight for enforcement of this right for 100 years.

Black man who even whistled at White women were summarily arrested and/or lynched in the south through the 1960s.


And so, I must say, Cali.....if Hillary was a woman who had not been married to the last Democratic President, and who hadn't had the vast advantage of establishment and initial publicity and being able to claim her years as a first lady as part of her Presidential qualifying experience, beyond the lousy way that she has ran her campaign, and the many bad votes that she has taken....I might see it more in the terms that you are putting out there....but in context, Obama is simply a better candidate, and I am glad to see that his people driven campaign is winning the day.

Plus, I thought you were in California, and had already voted.

[cali]

80. I'm not going to get into a fight over who's had it worse

I know too much history to engage in that. And I live in Vermont not California- though I was born there.

[FrenchieCat]

97. I wasn't wanting to engage in a fight either.......but simply responding to your post......

But I was listening to Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning, and as I listened to Kinky Friedman's rant I was sickened to hear how racism is still allowed to rear its ugly head without a nary a complaint from the news commentators as they interacted with Friedman....as he totally segmented the population of Texas in a very racist manner. Let's just say that my mouth was hanging open, to think that this was still an acceptable thing to do.

Keep in mind that the Cunningham Ohio Radio Jock who says he is now supporting Hillary Clinton over McCain.....has been in the news, and yet

No one is asking Hillary Clinton to reject and denounce his Cunningham's statements.

Yet Farrakhan's admiration for Obama was a question asked of Barack in a national debate.

So anyways....I figured that you had written your op to garnet discussion on the very issue of sexism. And my point is simply that maybe if Hillary was running against a White man, you might just have a point, but she isn't.

[Cha]

145. Interesting reading..

thanks.

[Hoof Hearted]

169. No one of stable mind believes Cunningham is suddenly a liberal Democrat

and would therefore support either Hillary or Obama. That is why neither of them would be called on to reject or denounce his little temper-tantrum.

Very little mental effort is really necessary to figure this out.

On the other hand, if the pastor of Hillary's church had gone to Libya with Louis Farrakhan or an equally controversial anti-Semitic, and Hillary had cited that pastor as a personal mentor of hers in writing, you can bet the media would be on it. They would be burning her in effigy.

I for one am glad this is getting aired now, because if Obama is the nominee for my party, I want this crap on the table and dealt with EARLY. If it's dealt with now it will be ancient freakin' news by November. Irrelevant. If you thought they were never going to ask, you were fooling yourself.

[JVS]

184. Don't forget how many threads there were here about Farrakhan

I don't think it is a coincidence that Hillary supporters kept flogging the unsolicited endorsement of a man that teaches that white people were created in a mad-science experiment gone wrong.

[RockyTorres]

67. DEFINETLY!!!

[rodeodance]

70. Thanks for post on the prevalant sexism that exists. btw----........"thighness" was

on a thread this morning.

it got locked----but not because of the commment.



The sexism is so overwhelming that it's gotten to me, and out of solidarity, I'm strongly tempted to vote for her. It's true as can be that the press has treated her shamefully. I listened to "On Point" yesterday and the spent an hour on it with Geraldine Ferraro and others. Anyone who can't see that the MSM has treated Clinton unfairly is blind. And on DU? Way before I decided to support Obama I wrote posts about the sexism here, and the tolerance for it. And I got scoffed at, just as her supporters now are being scoffed at. But all of it is true. Jeezus H. Christ, I even saw her called "her thighness" on a thread today. That just enrages me beyond my ability to express it.

[madmom]

71. Cali, there are a lot points we don't agree on, but this is not one of them,

I find it ironic that just a few minutes ago I was reading a post about mccain's war record and quite a few people jumped on and said "don't go there" ,"we're better than that", etc. etc. but when it comes to sexism it's "grow up", " grow a thicker skin" etc. There is definitely NOT equality among the sexes.

Oh yeah ... May the better person win!:toast:

[Hoof Hearted]

170. And my favorite from upthread - "she should be more like Obama"

Yep. Who knows? With a y chromosome and a penis and she could have been a whole different candidate!

[mudesi]

73. Is "her thighness" sexist?

Sometimes I wonder whether or not insulting one's appearance has anything to do with gender. It's childish, yes, but is it sexist?

People have referred to Obama's big ears, or Kucinich's resemblance to an elf. Do those two things have anything to do with them being male?

I think the sexism charge is overplayed around here.

[rodeodance]

79. Yes, when used in the context of women. Let this be a time of learning for you.

[cali]

87. yes and I think you're clueless about the subject. sorry.

I could go into a long explanation about women and appearance, women and body image, but it's not worth it. And no the charge of sexism is not overplayed here. I don't countenance bigotry. And I fucking well know it when I see it. It's been rampant here.

[JVS]

185. yes it is. I doubt Ted Kennedy has good thighs, but nobody talks about him in those terms

[cooolandrew]

74. To my mind it's the high influence of media they need to switch it off go cspan and liberal radio.

Television is the most influential media in the world. Folks need to turn it off when they hear this sexist brain washing. They are using it in media to get Hillary elected. I stand strongly against anyone who uses these terms. It is no conincidence that it has gone overdrive since the election season.

[bellasgrams]

75. She 'did not' vote for the war. She voted to give Bush the

authority. It was not known that he was 'going to start' a pre-emptive war. Most of the senate voted the same way, but you don't hear anyone else mentioned. It sounds like she is solely responsible. No one is perfect. but a lot of people on DU think they are.

[cali]

90. Baloney. She voted to give bush a blank check. period.

Go read Pat Leahy's exhortation to his colleagues before the vote where he begs them not to send a blank check to the president. Now who am I going to believe? You or my educated self and Pat Leahy?

[mtnsnake]

107. You've got more spin than a top that's out of control

I love how you denied that Obama votes to fund the war upthread and how you spun that one YOUR way, but when someone tells you the exact truth about what the IWR was, you spin it in the opposite direction to suit your own purposes.

Give us all a frigging break, will ya.

[MadBadger]

95. Majority of dems in Congress voted against the war.

[cloudythescribbler]

77. Suggestion for a thread on SEXISM -- gathering together a whole collection, w/URLs from DU and ...

putting them in one post for commentary.

just a thought

[uppityperson]

104. Here is one that tries to excuse sexist words.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4783265

Otherwise, just check out GD or GD-P front pages, or do a quick search for "sexist" (87 topics for last 24 hours, 3 days past gives me Your search criteria returned too many topics. Only displaying first 174 pages.
174 topics match your criteria)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

78. It was shocking to see just how much has been considered acceptable

Not just here, at DU, but on a national level. I'm seeing and hearing opinions on TV and the radio that that are nothing but sexist rants masked as concerned opinions.

[griffi94]

91. like when chris matthews said

hillary was uppity. i wonder how it would have played out had he called obama uppity.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

101. That's one good example

Another is when I heard a radio personality say she was PMSing. He had to apologize for it but it's already said and the damage done. Then people came to his defense on the issue. :wtf:

[Arkansas Granny]

86. What has really gotten to me about the sexism on this board is

that I never expected to find it here, of all places. On top of that, many who have posted some of the worst comments deny that their remarks are sexist. I can't tell if they are really that ignorant about what constitutes sexism or if they are in abject denial about being sexist. They remind me of a man I know who uses the "n" word on a regular basis but denies being a racist.

[boston bean]

88. I do remember that you called it out way before the primaries.

and I have seen you call it out at times since you pledged to Obama.

I don't agree with much you say regarding Obama. But I will say that you have been pretty consistent in these terms and I do respect that.

I am responding before I read any replies, because I don't want what others might say make me feel differently. But this is my gut judgement.

[theHandpuppet]

89. Thank you for your honesty.

The rampant sexism and homophobia that's been flying around this place has been a real eye-opener for me -- and incredibly depressing. There's just no excuse for it on a forum for Democrats. Sometimes I've wondered if I haven't wandered into Free Republic by mistake. I guess we haven't come a long way after all.

[ieoeja]

92. What cali said.

Personally, methinks we have a LOT of trolls on this board only pretending to be Obama supporters so they can get their rocks off attacking Hillary on a Democratic discussion board. The few I've tried engaging -- a waste of time, but sometimes one just can't help oneself -- can't go three posts without veering off into the same old tired hatewing radio crap.

Last one I argued against took all of two posts to start accusing Bill Clinton of being a rapist.

Then some real Obama supporters too riled at the babies, cult, etc remarks feel it necessary to defend the trolls. One defended the poster I mention above until I provided a Troll-to-English dictionary (the troll was using rightwing code words to accuse Bill instead of honestly coming out and saying what he meant).

[mrreowwr_kittty]

94. I voted for Obama in the primary but the sexism against Clinton is disgusting

If she's the nominee I will find it much more palatable to mark her name as I picture the smug bastards who are mocking her appearance, as smug bastards are wont to do.

The most enjoyable thing would be watching shallow misogynistic so-called "liberal" dickwads like Bill Maher having to restrain themselves from being an asshole to a woman who is not an 18 year old lingerie model.

[tandot]

99. Thanks, Cali.

I am very thankful that there are some Obama supporters left who don't turn a blind eye to it. It is bad enough that the media is full of it, but to see it over and over again on DU is disgusting.

:hi:

[countryjake]

100. Don't let the crazies influence your decision...

you are one of the only Obama backers in here that I recognize, from the very beginning of the campaigns, and while I haven't agreed with you in your support of him, I do respect your reasons for why you wish him to win the nomination.

I, too, have been totally gob-smacked by the sexism directed at Sen. Clinton and I agree, it should be pointed out, but that's become almost an impossible task these days, so I don't even read in this particular forum anymore, unless a topic title jumps out at me on the latest page when I sign in. Calling out on such garbage is necessary tho, and the ones on here who insist on leveling outrageous personal criticisms at both candidates would never gain the upper hand if the conscientious folk from both camps would be more diligent and not fall for baiting and snarling. Setting this forum apart made it possible for some of us to conveniently ignore all of the trash-talk that's been going down, so chaos rules, of course.

You shouldn't give up on your candidate just because of a few unprincipled asses. Fighting the bigotry can only strengthen your candidate's position and I sure do appreciate seeing you taking such a stance in this forum. Thanks for that!

[mzmolly]

102. I'm with you all the way Cali.

I voted already, but I agree fully with your disgust.

K and R

[DefenseLawyer]

108. Do you think the media treated Al Gore fairly?

I don't. But I don't think they were being sexist. They are lazy; and they are opportunists. I don't think the media treated Paul Tsongas fairly. Or Jerry Brown. Or Mike Dukakis. I could go on and on about candidates that go dumped on for sport by the media. As far as stupid posts on DU, I'm sure some of it is based on true sexism, but a lot of it is just meanness directed at the candidate that takes a sexist tone to get a rise out of people. I don't take what I read on the internets all that seriously.

[Thepricebreaker]

109. Wow thats really stupid...

Your going to vote for Hillary because people HERE act sexist at times? Wow that will show em... :eyes:

[theHandpuppet]

110. Why don't you read her whole post

BEFORE you respond in the way you did.

[cali]

120. Or even the first line about lazy gits :)

[cali]

119. You know what's really mind bogglingly stupid?

People who comment when they haven't read anything but the thread title. Now that's monumentally dumbfuck stupid.

[democrattotheend]

113. Obama supporters, chill out

The OP did not say she is changing her vote. She is just calling out other Obama supporters here who have been pretty sexist at times, and she's right. There has been way too much racism and sexism on this forum of late, as well as way too much bashing of voters, who are somehow thought to be less capable of making decisions about the candidates than the enlightened posters on this forum.

[Independent-Voter]

116. Anyone who changes their vote based on some anon bulletin board is a fucking idiot

[cali]

118. Another candidate for reading comprehension tutoring

In the OP, I made it clear that I'm not changing my vote. Furthermore anyone but a fucking brain dead moron, could read that it's not just about what's being said on DU. How sad that you have such a problem with your basic reading skills. There's help for that.

[Stand and Fight]

121. Anyone who doesn't read the full post before commenting...

is a fucking idiot. ;)

[DemGa]

123. You are describing the "Obama backlash"

People are growing sick of the Obama phenom on many levels -- the overt sexism against Hillary (by Obama himself, no less) is but one factor.

And many say Hillary should quit -- not so fast.

[cali]

127. No. I'm not. Did you read my post?

I am not sick of Obama in the least. I think he's a terrific candidate and I can see him being a very good president. Obama has NEVER done or said anything that indicates any sexism on his part. Voters are clearly NOT sick of Obama. There are multiple signs that they are growing sick of Clinton. And if she loses OH and TX I damn well think she should quit. I'm disgusted by the sexism, but I still think Clinton has run a lousy campaign- to put it mildly.

[DemGa]

132. Yes, I did read your post

"The sexism is so overwhelming that it's gotten to me"

You are describing the emotion that is leading to this backlash -- only your reaction differs.

And yes, Barack in his smarmy passive-aggressive tone is guilty too. Surely you see through these things:

Barack Obama: “I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal,”

[Blue_In_AK]

124. You're right.

The sexism has been pretty awful, and I'm usually fairly immune to that sort of thing. With Hillary and Obama having such similar voting records and almost identical positions on so many of the issues, it's hard to come up with any other explanation for the rampant Hillary hatred. I don't think she deserves it.

[Barack_America]

125. With regards to the MSM, are we really seeing sexism or just Clinton-loathing?

A bit of both?

Russert was unfair to Hillary last night, but sexist? That I'm not so sure of.

As for what's being said around this place, I've sort of made a conscious effort to step away until next week, so I can't really speak to that. But I've no doubt it's bad.

[VotesForWomen]

126. you are correct, but you should really just write in Kucinich; people are giving O way too much cred

credit for the fact that he didn't happen to be in the senate at the time of the vote. btw, i voted nader in 2004, precisely because of IWR, but i'm voting clinton now, because the time to take a stand on iwr was 2002 and 2004. the dems chose not to, and there's no point in doing it now.

[cali]

128. um. no. I don't do stupid or symbolic

and many dems did take it a stand in 2002 as anyone familiar with the history knows.

[LadyVT]

136. Cali, I respect your willingness to post about this.

I'm not an Obama supporter, but I can see by reading this thread, the heat you are taking here for it.

Honestly, if Obama is the man supporters believe he is, he would be APPALLED to read the sexist comments here and throughout DU.

[TwilightGardener]

133. Sorry, I have no respect for "pity/backlash" voting. Or threats of it.

And if Hillary wants us to vote for her BECAUSE she's a woman (which she plainly said last night), then she invites some of the sexism herself, by portraying her gender as her main selling point. Can't have it both ways. I don't like sexism either, but just as I don't see racism hiding in every attack against Obama, I don't see much sexism against Hillary, except for a few obnoxious souls who don't think before they post.

[cali]

138. And I have very little respect for people with poor reading comprehension

and for people who don't know what a rhetorical device is. Frankly, I'm ever surprised by the lack of education I find here. Obama has made appeals to black voters. Clinton has made appeals to women voters. Nothing wrong with either. And that you can't see the sexism is just sad.

Here, educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_device

[TwilightGardener]

142. I read, and comprehended your post. You could have decried the

sexism that you believe exists without threatening to vote to make some sort of point about it. I will never understand anyone who is even TEMPTED to use their vote that way. Not sure what you were going for here--some sort of hyperbole or overstatement to make Obama supporters on DU watch what they say? I don't believe there is rampant sexism toward Hillary--not nationally, and not on DU. A few bad apples always spoil the bunch, a few egregious comments linger in the mind, but overall, it's been a pretty clean race in terms of racism and sexism. I think a lot of people don't like her, and sometimes that ends up getting expressed in unfortunately sexist ways, but sexism isn't at the root of her problems getting nominated--her lack of a consistent and inspiring message, and her poorly run campaign, has much more to do with it. No "Wahhh, poor Hillary" for me--she had a major-ass lead, she was on top of the game, and she blew it all by herself. You might feel sorry for her now, and feel like anything sexist and insulting at this end stage is "piling on", but let's not get irrational and start making her into some kind of victim.

[Kittycat]

134. ...

:hug:

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

139. cali--you're dead on.

[mod mom]

143. Read this Cali-Do you believe Obama would have sold out these folks to the powerful?

Here is a portion of activist/mother, Terri Swearingen's acceptance speech for the Goldman Environmental Prize, given April 14, 1997:



I am not a scientist or a Ph.D. I am a nurse and a housewife, but my most important credential is that I am a mother. In 1982, I was pregnant with our one and only child. That's when I first learned of plans to build one of the world's largest toxic waste incinerators in my community. When they began site preparation to begin building the incinerator in 1990, my life changed forever. I'd like to share with you some of the lessons I have learned from my experiences over the past seven years.

One of the main lessons I have learned from the WTI experience is that we are losing our democracy. How have I come to this sad realization? Democracy is defined by Merriam Webster as "government by the people, especially rule of the majority," and "the common people constituting the source of political authority." The definition of democracy no longer fits with the reality of what is happening in East Liverpool, Ohio. For one thing, it is on the record that the majority of people in the Ohio Valley do not want the WTI hazardous waste incinerator in their area, and they have been opposed to the project from its inception. Some of our elected officials have tried to help us, but the forces arrayed against us have been stronger than we or they had imagined. Public concerns and protests have been smothered with meaningless public hearings, voodoo risk assessment and slick legal maneuvering.

Government agencies that were set up to protect public health and the environment only do their job if it does not conflict with corporate interests. Our current reality is that we live in a "wealthocracy" big money simply gets what it wants. In this wealthocracy, we see three dynamics at play: corporations versus the planet, the government versus the people, and corporate consultants or "experts" versus common sense. In the case of WTI, we have seen all three.

The second lesson I have learned ties directly to the first, and that is that corporations can control the highest office in the land. When Bill Clinton and Al Gore came to the Ohio Valley, they called the siting of the WTI hazardous waste incinerator next door to a 400 student elementary school, in the middle of an impoverished Appalachian neighborhood, immediately on the bank of the Ohio River in a flood plain an "UNBELIEVABLE IDEA." They said we ought to have control over where these things are located. They even went so far as to say they would stop it. But then they didn't! What has been revealed in all this is that there are forces running this country that are far more powerful than the President and the Vice President. This country trumpets to the world how democratic it is, but it's funny that I come from a community that our President dare not visit because he cannot witness first hand the injustice which he has allowed in the interest of a multinational corporation, Von Roll of Switzerland. And the Union Bank of Switzerland. And Jackson Stephens, a private investment banker from Arkansas. These forces are far more relevant to our little town than the President of the United States! And he is the one who made it that way. He has chosen that path. We didn't choose it for him. We begged him to come to East Liverpool, but he refused. We begged the head of EPA to come, but she refused. She hides behind the clever maneuvering of lawyers and consultants who obscure the dangers of the reckless siting of this facility with theoretical risk assessments.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/et0897s17.html




There has always been something incongruous about Stephens Inc. Despite the Little rock firm's attempts to portray itself as a small- city operation that closes for the duck season and got fabulously lucky on a couple of down-home deals like Wal-Mart, it was, at the incinerator's inception, the ninth-largest investment bank in the country. Since it is not headquartered in New York, its dealings are local news, little noticed by the national press, even when they have national implications. And, as a source close to the company once remarked, "The farther you get from Arkansas, the better it looks."

Stephens Inc. was founded by Witt Stephens, a state legislator's son who parlayed a Depression-era belt-buckle, Bible, and municipal-bond business into an immense personal fortune. After his retirement in 1973, the company was run by his shy younger brother, Jackson (a classmate of Jimmy Carter's at the Naval Academy). Witt Stephens and Stephens Inc. did much to create the economic paradox that is modern Arkansas: a desperately poor state with a scant 2.3 million inhabitants that is nonetheless home to a number of wealthy companies. Without the financial assistance of the Stephens brothers, Sam Walton might have ended his days as the most innovative merchant in Bentonville. Stephens money was also important to the fortunes of enterprises as various as Tyson Foods and Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the television producer and reigning First Friend. Stephens Inc. is an important client of the Rose law firm, whose chairman, C. Joseph Giroir, made Hillary Rodham Clinton a partner. And back in 1977, Stephens assisted BCCI's infiltration of the American banking system by brokering the latter's purchase of National Bank of Georgia stock held by Bert Lance, former President Jimmy Carter's friend and disgraced budget director.

Jackson Stephens (who turned over the reins to his son, Warren, in the late eighties) and his firm were both substantial contributors to the campaigns of Presidents Reagan and Bush (to the tune of at least $100,000 in 1980 and 1989), but they have been closer still to Bill Clinton (whom Witt Stephens had been known to call "that boy").

On two occasions, once when Clinton was running for reelection in Arkansas in 1990 and again in March 1992, when his battered presidential campaign was broke, the Stephens family saved Clinton's bacon with an infusion of money. Indeed, it may not be too much to say that their Worthen Bank's emergency $3.5 million line of credit saved the presidential campaign from extinction. --L.J.D.

-snip

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1993/11/davis.html





Who is the octopussy that might be lurking in the Ohio River Valley? Perhaps we should start by asking shy Arkansas billionaire Jackson T. Stephens. After all, Stephens introduced BCCI from Pakistan to the United States and the WTI waste incinerator to East Liverpool, Ohio. Stephens would be a good sketch artist because he's seen some monstrous scandals in his day. Stephens' family firm is the largest privately owned investment bank outside Wall Street. In September 1977, President Jimmy Carter's Budget Director Burt Lance was forced to resign amid allegations about his bank dealings with Stephens (Stephens and Carter were classmates at the Naval Academy). In 1978, Stephens, Lance and BCCI were charged with violating U.S. security laws. The charges were dropped after the defendants promised not to violate security laws in the future, even though they admitted no guilt.

The New York Post reported in February 1992 that it was Stephens who enabled BCCI to gain a foothold in the U.S. and helped the fraud-plagued bank secretly acquire U.S. banks. In Peter Truell and Larry Gurwin's book, False Profits, perhaps the best account of the BCCI scandal, the authors outlined how opium revenue from Afghanistan Mujahedin fighting the Soviets ended up in the accounts of BCCI, founded by Agha Hasan Abedi. The Post reported that Stephens allegedly introduced Abedi to Lance shortly after Lance resigned.

In 1991, Lance testified that he urged Abedi to acquire a Washington bank holding company, but he denied any knowledge of BCCI's subsequent secret ownership of First American Bankshares. The Post reported that Securities and Exchange Commission documents from 1977 substantiate that the idea originated with Stephens.

During Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential run, Stephens and his son Warren boasted of raising more than $100,000 for the campaign. The Stephens family also owned a 38 percent share in Worthen National Bank that extended a crucial $2 million line of credit to Clinton in January 1992.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/bob.html



Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. (WTI)


WTI has also gained significant political support, as one of the original partners in the corporation was Jackson Stephens. Stephens, an Arkansas investor, was known as a significant contributor to Reagan, Bush, and Clinton campaigns.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

The EPA has been accused of having bias in favor of WTI and carrying out decision-making activities without required public participation. The agency also violated rules established in RCRA during the WTI permit application process. EPA admitted such wrong-doing at a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee's subcommitteeon Administrative Law and Government Relations, as well as the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/mcormick.html#Key%20Actors




Washington, D.C. - The League of Conservation Voters (LCV), the self-described political arm of the environmental movement, has given President Clinton a middling grade of "C-plus" overall for "not working up to potential" during his first year in office.

In particular, the League criticized the Clinton Administration for failing to halt Waste Technologies Industries' controversial hazardous waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.

-snip

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_fewer_onsite_hazwaste/

[Lerkfish]

148. here's an interesting post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4799158&mesg_id=4799213

for anyone who claims sexism is the only allowed bigotry, I'd beg to differ....nasty, nasty stuff right there.

[sniffa]

150. Can I get the gist of it?

So I don't have to log out. :D

[Lerkfish]

151. I'm really loathe to, but here you go

NOTE: THIS IS NOT LERKFISH SAYING THIS, I"M QUOTING another poster


-------------------

Obama, A Trojan Horse for Slavery Reparations Proponents? ( w/Citations)
Feb 27, 2008
Please consider my earlier posts. They may be long, but I provide excerpts and direct quotations. More importantly, instead of just making unfounded statements, I provide citations and links to my sources.

With the stroke of a pen, Obama can repeal income tax for a selected portion of the population, in order to pay slavery reparations.

The House Judiciary Committee Chairman -- a reparations proponent -- has been openly biding his time over the past two years, for Obama to become President, believing that Obama will make reparations the law.

Obama's closest advisors and political allies are ardent reparations proponents. A racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic organization that demands reparations and openly hates America is throwing its support behind Obama. The word will be spread in churches and mosques.

This prospect ought to give pause to all Americans.

[sniffa]

152. Wow

:wow:

I wasn't expecting a quote, so I'm kinda wow.

[Lerkfish]

153. amazing, isn't it?

kind of have to scrub my brain after reading it.

[Hoof Hearted]

171. poster WHERE? and WHERE is your LINK?

Ya got shit so far.

I can make a post that says

NOTE: THIS IS NOT HOOF HEARTED SAYING THIS, I"M QUOTING another poster

And then proceed to post a bunch of shit I just made up down here. Like something about how Lerkfish goes down on his mother, or something repulsive like that.

[elixir]

149. What do you think of Hillary's statement last night about regretting her IWR vote?

[cali]

180. JE's apology didn't cut it for me and neither does Clinton's

That vote is an absolute deal breaker for me when it comes to primary voting, just as it was 4 years ago.

[Mike03]

154. I couldn't agree more with your premise.

Hillary Clinton faces more insurmountable obstacles than Obama; it's obvious. You are not only preceptive but righteous to point this out, because a lot of people won't understand, perceive or believe it.

[Mike03]

155. A major kick and rec for a righteous "Shrill" "Shrew...."

I'm surprised more people haven't rec'd this thread, because no matter how much we may revere Obama, it cannot be denied Hillary Clinton has been blenderized, and it's because it is still acceptable to marginalize a powerful, ambitious, political, prominent female, whereas it is taboo to marginalize a powerful, ambitious, prominent, political African American.

A female "shrieks" and is "shrill" rather than full of conviction or passion, or is a "shrew." Have you heard those adjectives applied to Obama? You will never ever hear them applied to a male candidate.

[David Zephyr]

156. I am just about there with you, too.

My companion and I watched the debate last night and although we are supporter es of Obama, we were both blown away with what an amazing woman Hillary Clinton is, how dignified she is, how intelligent and prepared she is, and how fortunate we are to have her as a leader in our party.

With all the odds against her, she proved beyond any stretch of the imagination just how dynamic she is and that she is the only real match for Obama.

Tim Russert had both of us so god damned angry with his rude behavior toward her, his lack of respect and crass chauvinistic manner, that we were both yelling at the TV in defense of Hillary.

And I really don't care if I upset my fellow Obama supporters, we are crazy if we do not beg, yes beg, this woman to be our Vice President.

cali, thank you for your post.

[cali]

181. thank you, David, for understanding how I feel

I knew I'd get a lot of heat for this OP, but I just don't care. Some things need to be said.

[Hoof Hearted]

157. I'VE NEVER EVER RESPONDED TO ANY THREAD IN ALL CAPS IN MY LIFE BUT ** ** ** THANK YOU CALI ** ** **

You redeem much of the damage and ill-will inflicted here and your fellow Obama supporters would be wise to pay you some kind of tribute. If I were you, I'd ask for a week in the mountains and a new car.

[cali]

182. LOL!! Please, take me OUT of the mountains for a week

I am literally snowed in. Drifts 3 feet are blocking my front door- but thanks anyway, HH.

[Mezzo]

159. BRO'S not HO'S, man

They have the same voting record, and Obama said had he seen the intelligence, he'd have supported the war because it was faulty, misleading intelligence.

But hey, he wasn't there to actually make a vote, he actually interviewed about his supportive stance, and then transformed that to "I was against this war from the get go".

But his supporters say "Bro's not Ho's" and Harry and Louise is just fine and dandy.

[Occam Bandage]

175. A google search for

(((("Bro's not ho's" Obama)))) yields 34 results, all of which are actually just one Yahoo! Answers question. (((("Bros not hos" Obama)))) gives 18 results, all of which are Clinton supporters complaining about Obama supporters supposedly saying that.

[Mezzo]

192. teh google. teh mughty, might google.

you've been to the rallies. You know what they're saying.

You can't find anything with Barack Obama saying the had he seen the intelligence, he would have voted for this war. I am not making it up, nor is it wishful thinking. He dialed back his stance, I sweartogodonmymotherslifeandall.

The important thing for me being that they both want them out of there. He wants to redeploy to Pakistan/Afghan border, and I just want them the hell home.

NOW

[demo dutch]

160. Wish you would... Sexism is a HUGE problem not just here but thruout the country!

as we are currently witnessing with Hillary's campaign, and let's not forget last night's debate!

[leftofthedial]

161. There are plenty of perfectly good reasons not to support Clinton.

No one with two working brain cells to rub together needs to resort to a sexist attack against her.



How's that?

[Bongo Prophet]

163. Another call for solidarity against sexism. Agreed.

will be voting and caucusing in Tx next week, for Obama.

Have called out jerks on both sides for racist, classist, sexist and just plain name calling and assholery.
Some who hate the sexism , the turn around and commit one of the other ones.
Same with those who decry racism, but then make sexist remarks.


The stupid, it hurts.

[AZBlue]

166. "Her thighness"?!?!?! I really hope everyone alerted on that one!

[writes3000]

167. Fellow Obama supporter who hates sexism...

I understand what you were going for, Cali, even if it seems to have been misinterpreted and not appreciated by others. Rock on.

[goodgd_yall]

168. We've disagreed on everything it seems

But I'm with you on this.

[Levgreee]

176. How is "your thighness" different than making fun of Mcain being ugly... someone short, fat, bald...

etc? I'm not saying it isn't sexist necessarily, but I just don't understand. I see how it is petty and disrespectful, but I don't see how making fun of a woman because of her thighs, is necessarily sexist. Her thighs are a physical characteristic, like someone's bald head, or being fat.

Is it sexism towards males when political cartoons make fun of Obama's ears, or skinniness?

Explain this to me, why exactly "thighness" is sexist, instead of just being a physical appearance related insult, like baldness, weight, or shortness.

[avrdream]

178. Cali, I agree with you for the first time in months.

This Hillary supporter is very, very sad about that sexism. I truly thought we were beyond that in America. And on DU.

But, we aren't.

[CreekDog]

179. The glass ceiling is still there and still unconciously accepted

I do think Obama is the superior candidate, but I do think a many of the jabs at Hillary from people who don't like her are mysognist. Many of them unconsciously so.

I mean, just imagine what would happen if for every sexist comment about Hillary out there, there was one racist comment about Obama?

I actually think the latter would be more obvious to people. Of course, the subtle racism, the "there's something about him that's not quite right..." does appeal to some deep seated and maybe unconscious prejudices too.

But it is a measure of progress that despite this, these candidates are viable and have gone farther than other women and people of color in the race for the presidency.

[Leopolds Ghost]

183. While we're at it, cali, you need to find out if either of these guys is lying to us about NAFTA

If Obama or Clinton actually placed a call to a foriegn official from
nearby Canada to reassure them that both candidates planned to demagogue
Ohio voters on the NAFTA issue, and that it was "just rhetoric" and NAFTA
would go untouched by either candidate -- as prophesied by former Hillary
staffer and current Obama supporter Larry O'Donnell -- well, that is a
pretty huge lie that matters more than sexism of some of their supporters.

The "Big Lie", as they used to say.

Of course Obama has already abandoned campaign finance reform -- one of the
few issues both Bill Clinton and McCain agreed on -- and Hillary I'm sure
has failed to own up to a great many things her husband takes credit for.

But Obama is the candidate who's almost certainly going to win here, so
where's the big NAFTA commitment here? We need to at least know he's not
lying to the voters, regardless of what Clinton thinks...

On Edit: I oppose NAFTA and I'm sure most Ohioans do as well.
It's a temporary reversible trade policy and was sold as such
by Bill Clinton. I remember that very clearly.

[casus belli]

186. What of the misandry? Nobody cares? Figures. n/t

[JVS]

187. In some cases yes, in other cases not so much.

I've seen some bad stuff, and I've seen accusations tossed out on stuff for the slightest of reasons.

WRT the MSM. When she was up, they were very accommodating and kind, now that she's down they're kicking her. In this desire to kick a loser they sometimes forget what is appropriate and what isn't.

[MagsDem]

188. It's a shame you don't feel the same about anti-gay bigotry

I hope when you cast your vote for Obama you take a few seconds to think about the fact that you are voting for the first democratic president in your lifetime that embraced and offered a stage to a homophobic bigot to spew his anti-gay hatred for 30 minutes, and even stood mere feet from him and watched the entire time. We all know he did that to capture the votes of the black religious community that shares that anti-gay bigotry.

Clearly you are going to vote for Obama, but please have the decency, as you cast that vote, to think of the democratic party principles you are casting aside as you do it. And please do think of the 3-4 million loyal democratic GLBT people he spit on to get the votes of bigots when you cast yours.

[cali]

189. Aw, but I do deplore homophobia

and people here are aren't hate filled know it. I disagree strongly with Obama's decision to let McClurkin sing at one of his events and to rave homophobic shit- just as I deplore HRC's embracing the support of a Boston clergyman who spews the same crap. I held off on my support for Obama for months because of McClurkin. Obama has disappointed me by not apologizing but he high marks from all the GLBT organization.

Your posts are so vile and hate filled and sick that it stinks up the whole forum. It's a relief to know you won't be spewing here much longer. I will party when you leave us. Your bigotry filled posts about Obama have been deplorable.

As for me, I've worked on GLBT issues here in Vermont for 20 years- from non-discrimination legislation to civil unions and now full marriage. So can your crap and beat it.

[casus belli]

190. Wish I knew who you were talking to.

This "ignored" character really gets around.

;)

[Kahuna]

191. Really? Did you learn anything about the rampant RACISM in

so called progressives? :eyes: