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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:36 PM
Original message
Clinton is a Benedict Arnold on Offshoring Jobs! TATA, Photo in Native Dress!


Clinton Woos the Outsourcers that Workers Fear


by Peter Wallsten
BUFFALO, N.Y. - To many labor unions and high-tech workers, the Indian giant Tata Consultancy Services is a serious threat - a company that has helped move U.S. jobs to India while sending thousands of foreign workers on temporary visas to the United States.

So when Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) came to this struggling city to announce some good news, her choice of partners was something of a surprise.

Joining Tata Consultancy’s chief executive at a downtown hotel, Clinton announced that the company would open a software development office in Buffalo and form a research partnership with a local university. Tata told a newspaper that it might hire as many as 200 people.

The 2003 announcement had clear benefits for the senator and the company: Tata received good press, and Clinton burnished her credentials as a champion for New York’s depressed upstate region.

But less noticed was how the event signaled that Clinton, who portrays herself as a fighter for American workers, had aligned herself with Indian American business leaders and Indian companies feared by the labor movement.

Now, as Clinton runs for president, that signal is echoing loudly.

Clinton is successfully wooing wealthy Indian Americans, many of them business leaders with close ties to their native country and an interest in protecting outsourcing laws and expanding access to worker visas. Her campaign has held three fundraisers in the Indian American community recently, one of which raised close to $3 million, its sponsor told an Indian news organization.

But in Buffalo, the fruits of the Tata deal have been hard to find. The company, which called the arrangement Clinton’s “brainchild,” says “about 10 employees work here. Tata says most of the new employees were hired from around Buffalo. It declines to say whether any of the new jobs are held by foreigners, who make up 90% of Tata’s 10,000-employee workforce in the United States.

As for the research deal with the state university that Clinton announced, school administrators say that three attempts to win government grants with Tata for health-oriented research were unsuccessful and that no projects are imminent.

...

Like many businesses and economists, Clinton says that the United States benefits by admitting high-tech workers from abroad. She backs proposals to increase the number of temporary visas for skilled foreigners.

The Tata deal shows the difficulty of proving concrete benefits to U.S. workers from the visa system. Since 2003, the year its Buffalo office opened, Tata and its affiliates have sought permission to bring more than 1,600 foreign high-tech workers to the state, including at least 495 to the upstate region and 45 to Buffalo, according to government data. Tata has brought additional workers into the country under a second visa program whose numbers have not been disclosed.

Some U.S. worker organizations say Clinton cannot claim to support American workers if she is also helping Indian outsourcing companies and proposing more worker visas.

“It’s just two-faced,” said John Miano, founder of the Programmers Guild, one of several high-tech worker organizations that have sprung up as outsourcing has expanded. “We see her undermining U.S. workers and helping the offshoring business, and then she comes back to the U.S. and says, ‘I’m concerned about your pain.’ ”


...

The main lobbying organization for the Indian-American community, USINPAC, cites the Tata deal as one of Clinton’s top three achievements as a senator - and evidence of a turnabout, in its view, from her past criticism of outsourcing. “Even though she was against outsourcing at the beginning of her political career,” the USINPAC website says, “she has since changed her position and now maintains that offshoring brings as much economic value to the United States as to the country where services are outsourced, especially India.”

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/30/2857/


This must get out to OHIO. PLEASE RECOMMEND
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended.
:kick:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I see NOTHING wrong with our leaders wearing traditional garb
"while in Rome" and all that crap.
What is WRONG is for a candidate to make up shit about who is releasing these PUBLIC pictures and to fuel false outrage.
BTW..I reallly love that Asian silk she is wearing...the color is breathtaking.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. She'll never say she's sari...
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. LMAOBAMA! n/t
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Very clever....
A tip of the hat...

To you...
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
33. !
:rofl:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. well crafted
:toast:
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. MAKE SURE THESE VIDEOS GET OUT AS WELL -- K&R

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Damn! Thanks!
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BadgerKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Thanks.
I was wondering about H1b's last evening.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Actually, that looks pretty good on her.
Though is it just me, or does it make her head look small for her body?
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. What gets me is the evil offshoring look af avarice in her eyes
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. High-tech industry
My husband is one of these high-tech geeks, extremely high-tech. He says that the reason so many are hired from abroad is because they are geniuses in their fields. In fact, he just lost one of his "from abroad" employees to a West Coast company who offered her better than a 6 figure income. After 70 interviews with students fresh out of college, he still hasn't found anyone with comparable skills. He will have to hire 5 people to do her job.

Left of Cool
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Everybody lies. n/t
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. In my hi-tech experience, the exact opposite has been true.

We have almost always had to help the overseas folk get up to American standards.

In fact, if you look deeply into the advantages and disadvantages of offshoring the #1 disadvantage has always been that it will take more people more time to do the same job offshore. But at one-tenth (or lower) the cost, you can afford a whole lot more people.


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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I suppose it depends on the company
In hubby's posiiton, it is imperative to hire the best, brightest and most skillful and it does not matter if they are from the US, India, Japan, pick a country. He does not outsource but he does bring them in from abroad.

Left of Cool
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
43. True. n/t
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Morereason Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
30. Baloney, he has bought into hype. Who exactly engineered tech originally anway..oh, stupid Americans
Edited on Thu Feb-28-08 02:08 AM by Morereason
right. How in the world did we ever grow the industry with such untalented lazy workers?
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. so it would be more of a success if the foreign company got government grants
kinto kotai amar Bonolata Sen.

Because it ain't Hillary.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. ?
What government grants are you talking about and what does Hillary have to do with a my husband''s employees.

Left of Cool
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. since I replied to the OP
I was not talking about your husband's company, unless he works for TATA.

Government grants

"As for the research deal with the state university that Clinton announced, school administrators say that three attempts to win government grants with Tata for health-oriented research were unsuccessful and that no projects are imminent."

Your tax dollars at work, providing jobs for immigrants. A foreign company that hires mostly foreigners, funded by American taxpayers. Yet if an American company tried to hire only or mostly Americans, they would be sued for discrimination. :crazy:
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I trust Obama to fix this crazy world. Hillary will say anything and do nothing.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. oh she will do something all right
that's what your OP establishes. She will stick a knife in the back of the working class and call it progress. Just like she spit in the face of the anti-war movement and told them it was raining.
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
44. You really trust Obama to "fix the world"? That's a lot of trust for a system that's
supposed to be responsible government, where elected officials are held accountable.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. Clinton is the neoliberal globalization candidate.
I can't believe anyone in Ohio would think about voting for her. The memory hole strikes again.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. I'm more worried about the neoliberals taking over the Obama campaign now he's presumptive nominee.
Edited on Thu Feb-28-08 06:29 AM by Leopolds Ghost
Obama adviser privately assures Canadian ambassador that NAFTA threats are
"campaign rhetoric" and will not be acted upon (Clinton adviser apparently
sought the same assurance, suggesting that the two campaigns had spoken
privately in an effort to neutralize the issue by talking tough for a day
on NAFTA labor and environmental reforms that will not be acted upon)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4805060
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. Has it been drycleaned?
:hide:
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. That blue sari is stained with the blood sweat and tears of the American Worker
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 04:52 PM by Dems Will Win
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
23. I wonder if she's cutting similar deals with the Chinese!...
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From The Left Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. Didn't She Borrow this Frock from Pickles Bush?
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
25. Obama praised the recent Peru/US trade accord
of course he did not vote one way or the other....is that familiar?

but he is on record for stating, publicly, that the US trade accord with Peru is a good idea

never mind the devastating impact on Peru's small farmers....

or on US jobs....

but, hey, let's face it.....there is a huge double standard this primary season

Hillary can do no right, Obama can do no wrong

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
26. TATA!
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thanks for Getting the Word Out!
K&R
:kick:
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. Recommended! n/t
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
29. Here's Another Video
Courtesy of "antigop." :hi:

Presidential Candidates and H-1B
http://blog.noslaves.com/presidential-candidates-and-h-1b
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
31. Kick!
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Morereason Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
32. Kick and recommend
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
34. Irrelevant, since Obama's going to be the nominee.
I am far more concerned by the fact that a leading Obama advisor
apparently called the ambassador to Canada in an effort to undermine
Obama's rhetoric on NAFTA by promising that no action would be taken
on NAFTA after the election, a premise echoed by the fact that
Obama and Clinton both mindlessly and not-so-coincidentally adopted
the EXACT same position on NAFTA in the debate, and we know that
at least one of them is lying: since the other chose not to distinguish
himself from Hillary's current position on the issue, it is safe to
say there is no fair trade or labor candidate in the race.

Of course, Obama could prove us wrong by strongly denouncing this
treasonous action on the part of leading Democratic wise men,
assuring foreign leaders that he is lying to us about trade in order
to get elected in November

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4805060

(the primary season is essentially over so far as the Democratic
wise men are concerned -- they're good at math. That's how they
got so wealthy and influential in the first place.)
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Popol Vuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
36. K&R
n/t
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. kick
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
38. Informative Site:
Since 1985, over 17 million visas have been issued to allow aliens to work in the United States. These nonimmigrant visas, or NIV, are company sponsored visas that use a variety of different names including H-1B, H-2A, H-2B, J-1, L-1, and TN.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the year 2001, 9 out of every 10 new job openings for computer/IT were taken by H-1Bs, and despite record unemployment the INS issued 312,000 visas in 2002.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the year 2003 the total number of H-1B visas for high-tech workers issued was greater than the total number of high-tech jobs eliminated. Negative job growth in Computer/IT for U.S. citizens can be directly correlated with the huge influx of H-1B visa holders. If it wasn't for H-1B the unemployment rate for Computer/IT workers would be 0%.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

H-1B is used to import workers for jobs that American employers claim can't be filled in the "tight American labor market". Their claim is a lie because there are more than enough Americans to fill these jobs. L-1 visas have no yearly quota and may one day surpass H-1B as a means of importing skilled workers.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NIVs such as H-2A and H-2B are being used to import blue collar and agricultural workers and J-1 visas are used by educational and governmental institutions to import foreign workers. TN (NAFTA) visas are used import Canadian and Mexican citizens to work in the United States.

http://www.jobdestruction.com/shameh1b/
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. kick
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
41. TaTa, Jobs!
Thanks a bunch, Hill!
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. Pertains to Outsourcing/H1B's
India plans social security pact with US
November 18, 2006 12:15 IST

Overseas Indian Affairs Minister Vayalar Ravi said in New York on Friday that New Delhi is trying to negotiate for an agreement with the Bush Administration under which temporary Indian workers in the US would not have to pay social security taxes.

Talking to a small group of Indian journalists Ravi said during the visit of Belgium prime minister Guy Verhofstadt to India earlier this month an agreement, called social security agreement, was signed with Belgian Foreign Minister under which Indians who would work there for less than five years would have the option of paying their social security taxes in India rather than in Belgium.

'We are also negotiating with the United States for a similar kind of agreement,' Ravi said in response to a question. He said such agreements would also be signed with other European Union countries as well following conclusion of negotiations.

For hundreds of thousands of Indian H1B workers in the US, the mandatory payment of social security tax has been an issue since workers who go back to India after six years of temporary employment in the US either voluntarily or due to lack of sponsorship for permanent residency cannot claim the money they had paid from their earnings. For the permanent residents and citizens, social security acts something like a social insurance program at old age.

http://www.rediff.com/money/2006/nov/18india.htm
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
45. She's my Senator and I wrote to her after that story hit
My husband's job was outsourced to India. So were the jobs of most of his co-workers. Most have never been able to find comparable jobs in their own industry because experience and longevity in a field mean nothing anymore. Anyway, I knew that for the most part, Clinton was one of the good ones. She's a Democrat and she's worked her whole life, just as she says, for a lot of worthy things. But this a huge problem to so many American families and she's basically saying it's just fine. So, I asked her for some clarification. As I said, she's my Senator. I always would get at the very least an auto-reply followed by something boilerplate about her position on a subject. On this, there was just silence. No repsonse whatever. I draw no conclusions and I don't hate her but I definitely think she's been very out of touch with Americans on this issue.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I'm Sorry to Hear About Your Husband
And Co-Workers Jobs Being Outsourced. It's a Damn Shame. There are Many Unemployed IT Workers Here, as Well. As a Matter of Fact, A Friend of Mine Lost His Job (Outsourced to India) and is Now Working at Home Depot (And has a Part Time Job on the Side) and He and His Family Just Aren't Making Ends Meet. It's a Sad State of Affairs That We Have Qualified Workers Here in the US, But Corporations are Only Interested in Cheap-Ass Labor to Line Their Own Pockets.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
47. kick
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
48. Clinton is a neo-con; she votes for WAR and OUTSOURCING. n/t
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
49. Whoa! Talk about damning.
Explain that away, Madame.
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