Obama would have voted "present" on Iraq....

[catagory5]

He says he woudl have voted nay, but I bet he would have skipped out on it because it took some political cajones either way.

"obama" how do you vote? *present*

[Johnny__Motown]

1. not even close

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po


Also, you understand that of over 4000 votes he only did that about 130 times

That is about 3% of the time. AND the Present vote is there for a reason. I don't expect you to understand it but it is. If you support the ideas proposed in a bill but feel there may be problems in the wording you vote Present.

The simple fact that he knew enough about the bills he was voting on to decide on an up or down or present vote speaks well for him.

Compare that to Hillary who could not be bothered to read the NIE before voting for the Iraq War.


ALSO, Hillary is from Illinois. Anyone who passed their 8th grade civics class should understand the process in play here. She is also a Lawyer. Clearly she was distorting the facts just to fool people like you.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. I love the poll that was on here recently about that

The question was: Have you stopped killing babies yet?

The answers were: Yes, No, or Present.

Most people got the reference.

[Johnny__Motown]

15. Yep, Hillary sure can slime. Got to give her that To bad she can't pick a campaign manager as well

[cliffordu]

40. LOL!!

[laconicsax]

11. Closer

As the keynote speaker, Obama was trying to be loyal to the Democratic nominees, John Kerry and John Edwards, both of whom had voted in favor of the war authorization resolution, along with Hillary Clinton. In an interview reported by the New York Times on July 26, on the first day of the convention, he reiterated his opposition to the war but declined to criticize Kerry and Edwards, saying he was "not privy to Senate intelligence reports."

He then continued: "What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/01/obama_and_iraq.html

He later said that he would have voted no, but the fact is, it doesn't particularly matter how he would have voted as much as what he intends to do now that we're in Iraq. When we leave and how is more important than playing he said/she said.

[Johnny__Motown]

14. Nominating someone who voted for the war was a mistake, that should be clear by now

He did what he could to reduce the political damage to our party. He had the courage to speak out against the war when 70% of the country was in favor of it.

I'm sorry your candidate did not have the insight or the courage to vote correctly on the IWR but distorting Sen. Obama's position isn't doing anyone any good and just makes you look silly.

Sen. Obama will be our nominee and the next President. You may as well get used to it.

[laconicsax]

22. My candidate dropped out in January.

As is stands, I honestly don't care whether Obama or Clinton get the nomination. I'm voting for the nominee in November regardless.

[jackson_dem]

45. How many of those bills were like the Ronald Reagan Day bill he cosponsored?

On the controversial issues he often was nowhere to be found...

[Occam Bandage]

2. How insightful! And witty!

[AtomicKitten]

3. You should put that to music it's that awesome.

[provis99]

4. ok, mindreader.

Maybe you can tell me how Hillary would have voted, too? Oh, that's right. She voted FOR the war!

[tabasco]

5. If so, he's still better than Clinton.

Ever think of that, sparky?

[Breeze54]

16. How do you figure that? He voted for the Oman Free Trade Act!

Have you read about that?

http://tabacco.blog-city.com/oman_free_trade_agreement_passes_senate_10_democrats_sold_us.htm

400 organizations opposed it due to the slave trade!!!

Only 10 Dems voted for it and Obama was one of them!

ALL the rethugs voted for it except 4.

[tabasco]

17. I'm a veteran and care more about the war and my friends in harm's way.

There are not hundreds of thousands dead because of the Oman Free Trade Act.

[Breeze54]

23. I'm the Mom and sister of veterans and

the Oman Free Trade Act is HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And people are dying and enslaved!!! Little girls forced to be sex slaves!!!

Workers forced to work 100 hours a week for NO PAY, living in the worst conditions!!

Obama isn't talking about stopping the war in Iraq but

he did say he 'might' have the troops out of Iraq in 18 months!

18 months?!?!

and he also said that "preemptive strikes" are NOT off the table!!

[tabasco]

30. I suppose we have different priorities.

Obama was against the war and wants to get us out.

Who knows what Clinton will do? She was gung ho for the war until the polls changed. You can try to spin that all you want. Obama was against the war when it actually took some moral courage.

[Breeze54]

33. He 'said' he was against it

but he wasn't a senator then. He couldn't vote on it.

He also said preemptive strikes aren't off the table and that if he
needed to, he'd bomb Pakistan "just like this administration does". ugh!

[BeatleBoot]

6. Mr. Auchi, Convicted of Corruption in France, Loaned Obama $ 3.5 Million

"A company related to Mr Auchi, who has a conviction for corruption in France, registered the loan to Mr Obama's bagman Antoin "Tony" Rezko on May 23 2005. Mr Auchi says the loan, through the Panamanian company Fintrade Services SA, was for $3.5 million"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_amer...

[madrchsod]

20. you need to fax this to fitzgeralds office in chicago....

i`m sure he does know anything about this article

[cliffordu]

41. Same attempt at character assassination, different day

:puke:

[Drunken Irishman]

7. Are you Clinton's joke writer?

[stahbrett]

8. Better than voting Yes

:D

[MannyGoldstein]

9. You Guys Rock!

Keep up the great work!

Many thanks!

[Breeze54]

12. He voted invoked 'Present' nearly 130 times as a state senator.

:wtf:

Is that even normal for any senator? Apparently in Illinois it is. :eyes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html">It’s Not Just ‘Ayes’ and ‘Nays’: Obama’s Votes in Illinois Echo

snip-->

Mr. Obama’s aides and some allies dispute the characterization that a present vote is tantamount to ducking an issue. They said Mr. Obama cast 4,000 votes in the Illinois Senate and used the present vote to protest bills that he believed had been drafted unconstitutionally or as part of a broader legislative strategy.

snip-->

“If you are worried about your next election, the present vote gives you political cover,” said Kent D. Redfield, a professor of political studies at the University of Illinois at Springfield. “This is an option that does not exist in every state and reflects Illinois political culture.”

The vote on the juvenile-justice bill appears to be a case when Mr. Obama, who represented a racially mixed district on the South Side of Chicago, faced pressure. It also occurred about six months before he announced an ultimately unsuccessful campaign against a popular black congressman, Bobby L. Rush.

State Senator Christine Radogno, a Republican, was a co-sponsor of the bill to let children as young as 15 be prosecuted as adults if charged with committing a crime with a firearm on or near school grounds.

The measure passed both houses overwhelmingly. In explaining his present vote on the floor of the Senate, Mr. Obama said there was no proof that increasing penalties for young offenders reduced crime, though he acknowledged that the bill had fairly unanimous support.

“Voting present was a way to satisfy those two competing interests,” Ms. Radogno said in a telephone interview.

Thom Mannard, director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, said political calculation could have figured in that vote.

“If he voted a flat-out no,” Mr. Mannard said, “somebody down the road could say Obama took this vote and was soft on crime.”

Mr. Obama’s aides said he was more concerned about whether the bill would be effective rather than with its political consequences. They did not explain why he did not just vote no.

More....

[madrchsod]

18. so what? that`s the way the game is played here

and neither party objects to it. works for the state of illinois so why do you care?

[Breeze54]

25. Really? So what? Isn't that 'so what'; what got us into this mess?

[tritsofme]

42. Lots of things work here in Illinois.

But I would imagine the rest of the country would just as soon not have us impose our peculiar political tendencies onto them.

[scheming daemons]

13. As my 9-yr-old likes to say... YOU MUST BE A SIDE-KICK!

(she misheard the word Psychic...)


;-)

[rodeodance]

19. its a safe vote for him.

[Raine]

21. What don't you get a job with the psychic hotline

since you're so good at predictions. :sarcasm:

[babylonsister]

24. Do you have anything to support that. Because of people like you,

I hope Obama smokes Clinton, she gets out of this, and I don't have to listen or read the likes of you. Hay! I just realized, I don't have to! Have a nice life, and bye.

[CyberPieHole]

26. That's if he would have bothered to get his lazy butt over to the Senate...

he often has not bothered to show for the votes.

[elias7]

35. you are my ideal Democrat

non-judgemental, non-pejorative and fair-minded. Thanks for your comment.:hi:

[stillcool]

27. Is it really that difficult to understand?

'Present’ Perfect
By ABNER J. MIKVA
Published: February 16, 2008
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/opinion/16mikva.html?ex=1360818000&en=9417ee6115534086&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON should probably be forgiven for not remembering the course on the state Constitution that she would have had to take as an eighth grader in Illinois. But had she remembered it, she would have known that Senator Barack Obama was not ducking his responsibility in the Illinois Senate when he voted “present” on many issues.

Unlike Congress and the legislatures of most other states, each chamber of the Illinois Legislature requires a “constitutional majority” to pass a bill. The state Senate has 59 members, so it takes 30 affirmative votes. This makes a “present” vote the same as a no. If a bill receives 29 votes, but the rest of the senators vote “present,” it fails.

In the Illinois Senate, there can be strategic reasons for voting “present” rather than simply no. A member might approve the intent of legislation, but not its scope or the way it has been drafted. A “present” vote can send a signal to a bill’s sponsors that the legislator might support an amended version. Voting “present” can also be a way to exercise fiscal restraint, without opposing the subject of the bill.

I recall voting “present” on many bills when I was in the Illinois Legislature. In the 1960s, for instance, I voted “present” on the annual highway appropriations bill. Like many of my fellow senators, I thought some of the money being allocated should have gone to public transportation. Still, I didn’t want to vote no, because I did not want to stand against the basic principle of maintaining our public roads. So I voted “present.”

It never occurred to me or to any of my critics that I was ducking responsibility for a making a decision. Mr. Obama was an outspoken member of the Illinois Senate, and not someone known for dodging questions, whether they were on ethics, police responsibility, women’s choice or any other hot-button issue.

Even if Senator Clinton does not remember the constitutional majority requirement in Illinois, one of her advisers might have explained it to her. When I was White House counsel, President Clinton frequently reminded me that he had taught constitutional law before he ran for public office. I would hope that he would assume that another constitutional scholar — Barack Obama — would be aware of his voting responsibilities as a state legislator.

Abner J. Mikva has been an Illinois state legislator, a United States congressman, a federal judge and, from 1994 to 1995, White House counsel. He now directs the Mandel Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School. Mr. Mikva serves as an informal adviser to Barack Obama's presidential campaign.

http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=274863
Friday, January 25, 2008
'Present' votes defended by Ill. lawmakers
By Daniel C. Vock, Stateline.org Staff Writer

In most legislatures, lawmakers vote either “yes” or “no” on bills, but in Illinois, senators and representatives can hit a third button for a “present” vote. Now that quirk — not unique to Illinois — has sparked heated exchanges among Democrats vying for president.
------------------
But Obama’s former colleagues who still serve in the Illinois Capitol say that the attacks are off-base and that either Obama’s opponents don’t understand how things work in Springfield or they are deliberately distorting his record.

“To insinuate the ‘present’ vote means you’re indecisive, that you don’t have the courage to hold public office, that’s a stretch. But, it’s good politics,” said state Rep. Bill Black (R), a 22-year veteran of the House and his party’s floor leader.
----------------
“The ‘present’ vote is used, especially by more thoughtful legislators, not as a means of avoiding taking a position on an issue, but as a means of signaling concerns about an issue,” said state Rep. John Fritchey (D), an Obama supporter.
--------------------

In Illinois, the “present” vote works as a vote against a measure during final action.

State Sen. John Cullerton (D) calls the “present” vote “a no vote with an explanation.” Legally, there’s not much difference between the two votes, but practically, it can let the sponsors or other legislators know of problems with the bill that should be corrected.

That’s not how U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) characterized it in a debate in Myrtle Beach, S.C., this week.

“In the Illinois state Senate, Senator Obama voted 130 times ‘present.’ That’s not ‘yes,’ that’s not ‘no.’ That’s ‘maybe,’” she said.-----------------------

Those remarks angered Cullerton, who is also backing Obama. He stressed that voting “present” is different than not voting at all.

“There’s not one Republican, there’s not one member in the history of the General Assembly who is still alive today who would criticize voting ‘present.’ There’s not one member of the General Assembly who’s alive today who has ever not voted ‘present,’” he said.

Fritchey, the House Democrat who chairs a committee on civil law, said he often used the “present” vote when he thought a bill had constitutional or other legal problems.

That’s also the reason Obama, who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago, gave during the debate for voting “present” on a bill he originally had sponsored.

“After I had sponsored it and helped to get it passed, it turned out that there was a legal provision in it that was problematic and needed to be fixed so that it wouldn’t be struck down,” he said.

Contact Daniel C. Vock at [e-mail].

[Danger Mouse]

28. I had wondered when you'd come back from under the bridge!

:hi:

[Forkboy]

29. Thank you mtnsnake.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

31. Every time you post this, you just demonstrate your own ignorance

Why don't you go educate yourself about what a present vote means in the Illinois Senate before parroting the same smear that was debunked weeks ago.

[DiverDave]

32. huh, can you give me

the winner at Delmar in the 5th?

Thanks

[CTLawGuy]

34. even if that could be remotely true

I'd take that 20 times over voting yes.

[emilyg]

36. I will not.

[CTLawGuy]

38. so you support the war?

NT

[emilyg]

39. My feelings about the war are not the issue here.

[CTLawGuy]

44. so why wouldn't you take "present" over "yes."

NT

[emilyg]

47. I don't like people who avoid issues.

[jgraz]

37. Obama would have spelled "category" correctly.

:eyes:

[Warren Stupidity]

43. Ponies can fly in my imaginary universe

isn't that kewl?

[Teaser]

46. Can I borrow your alternate reality machine

I want to check out the timeline where Biff has "adopted" Marty McFly and is running a big casino.

I hear Marty's mom is an easy lay there.