Which warrents the bigger apology McClurkin or IWR vote

[mckeown1128]

I really want to know what everyone thinks about this.



I will give my opinion:

I think Hillary should apologize for the IWR. Everyone in the country KNEW at the time that it was a vote for war. Those of us who are honest will admit that it was clearly a vote fore war. This revisionist business about how Hillary couldn't possibly have known that it would lead to war..is bs. 4,000 people have died and Hillary among many others helped that happen.

McClurkin I am not as bothered by. It was one event... no one died... McClurkin was there to perform NOT to mouth off about his bigoted beliefs. The mistake was that they let him mouth off. He should have been told ahead of time to STFU. But, it does make sense to have him at the event. It is part of Obama's overall plan. He is reaching out to those who we may disagree with. Obama isn't sacrificing his own policies because of McClurkin. Reaching a hand of friendship out to McClurkin and his bigoted ilk.. will only help us bring them over to our side. Maybe Obama will be able to call on McClurkin's support to help push people to accept civil unions.. who knows.. The point is that Obama is trying to bring people into the party. It is a brilliant strategy to get things done. It is clearly a part of Obama's message. That being said I repeat.. McClurkin should have been told to STFU. The fact that he mouthed off during the event was wrong. Obama should apologize.. But it is not that big of a deal. No one died over it for christ's sake.

Well, I would like your opinion. Not attacks... but your opinion.

[Melinda]

1. You, for posting this divisive shit. n/t

[taterguy]

2. . . .

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[bunnies]

6. scoot over.

:popcorn: Not gonna be pretty.

[Forkboy]

3. What's a better way to die? By bomb or by beating?

Pretty ignorant OP.

[mckeown1128]

5. Obama was clearly not encouraging people to go out and

beat up homosexuals.

[Forkboy]

36. I know he wasn't.

But it's a dumb comparison. Do you know how many homosexuals were killed in World War Two? Do you know how many Iraquis have died in this war? Adding up the dead to pick a candidate is a little odd.

[LostinVA]

4. You should apologize for posting flamebait

BTW, the Ex Gay movement KILLS people. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[mckeown1128]

11. This isn't meant as flame bait. but thanks for flaming...

I doubt they were pushing to go out and kill people at the Obama rally.

[LostinVA]

14. Do some research into what goes on in the Ex Gay movement, then get back to me

Sickening.

[mckeown1128]

22. I know what they do and it is sickening....

but I don't see what the problem is with Obama having McClurkin sing at his concert. He wasn't there to bash the GBLT community.

[LostinVA]

30. Then why DID he bash the GLBT community?

[mckeown1128]

41. Because he didn't keep his mouth shut. Apparently it either

wasn't made clear to him or he spoke when he shouldn't have.. And I said in my OP that Obama should apologize for McClurkin spouting his hatred.

[LostinVA]

32. Dupe

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. There are 120,000 dead gay Iraqis.

Just saying.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. Jesus. She's said 'if I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have made that vote'

What's wrong with that?
It's not like she had a 'War!' button, a 'Present' button, and a 'HolyShitBushMightNotDoWhatThisMeasuerAuthorizesAndStartAWarNoMAtterWhatThisSays' button, and she hit 'War!" by mistake.
Obama's getting in bed with the HateWing of his Church is something he'll never apologize for, and you love him for that. You are the one who should apologize.

[mckeown1128]

15. an apology is accepting responsibility...

Hillary saying that Bush managed to trick her(and conveniently not the rest of us) into pushing for the war. That is not her apologizing. It is her blaming Bush.

What should I apologize for?

[griffi94]

23. because it wouldn't matter

if hillary apologized and to make amends ate a handful of broken glass. the obamabots hate her, and they're always going to hate her, but they feel the need to justify hating her so they post shit like this.
when obama wins the nomination, and the media turns on him, and the crossover repubs cross back over
and mccain gets sworn in as president. the obamabots will still hate her, and blame the loss on hillary because she didn't get out soon enough, or got out too soon, or they'll just make some shit up.

[cali]

8. Here's my opinion: You're making excuses for Obama about McClurkin

and you totally don't get it.

[mtnester]

28. cali....

thank you

from the mother of a gay son who I love dearly

[cali]

40. you are most welcome

some of us Obama supporters do get it, and we're not willing to make excuses for him on this.

[mtnester]

47. I know you are a passionate supporter, so it means double

really. Folks that support because they believe, not so they can tear down, are a good thing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. did you not watch the last debate?...or are you just enjoying being willful liarl?

[mckeown1128]

18. I saw the last debate...

I saw Hillary once again blame bush for taking her vote for IWR literally. Once again... blaming Bush doesn't mean she is apologizing for her own vote.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. RUSSERT: But to be clear, you'd like to have your vote back?CLINTON: Absolutely. I've said that many

RUSSERT: But to be clear, you'd like to have your vote back?

CLINTON: Absolutely. I've said that many times.

[mtnester]

31. Yeah, you and I BOTH watched a different debate than the OP did n/t

[mckeown1128]

34. There is a difference.

She wants it back not because the vote was a mistake... but because Bush tricked her. She was still blaming Bush.

[goldcanyonaz]

10. Homophobia kills.

[TheDonkey]

53. But not as much as us bombing the bejesus out of Iraq.

but who cares about Iraqis getting blown to pieces when you have some radical man speaking to a small gathering and his words were later criticized by the man who hosted the event. RORRHUIE

[goldcanyonaz]

55. But, who cares about gays here in the U.S. being beaten to death, because a boy wore lipgloss to

class.

[mtnester]

13. You certainly are not saying homophobic bigotry is OK because no one died are you?

Really?

Try telling that to the parents of Matthew Shepherd and the others who have died because of GLBT hate.

Take a peek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw9zJq0QGl0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_gays,_lesbians,_bisexuals,_and_the_transgendered

[LostinVA]

16. He actually dismissed the kids that die because of the ex-gay movement in his response to me

Apparently, it's no big deal, since it wasn't verbally advocated at the concert.

[mckeown1128]

19. So, what your saying is that Obama murdered "kids" because..

McClurkin sang at his concert?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

38. Seriously -- talk about disingenuous

[mtnester]

54. I am trying to figure out why that post got deleted

I am for the very first time in 4 years her looking for a moderator

[LostinVA]

56. It's against DU rules to say you're alerting on something

[mtnester]

61. Oh sheesh...is that a new rule?

I see that all over the place and have for years.

Oh well, I aked for reconsideration...maybe I get it, maybe I don't.

[LostinVA]

63. Nope

It just isn't always enforced. You should be able to repost what you wrote without that part.

[LostinVA]

35. No -- I'm saying he gave a platform to people responsible for gay teens dying

[mckeown1128]

45. You need to seperate the hate from the actions...

McClurkin as screwed up as he is has a right to his bigoted opinions. He was not there to spout his hate but to sing gospel music. Big difference.

[LostinVA]

50. Obama gave a platform to a bigot

The bigot has a right to his fucked up opinion, but I also have a right to expect my presidential candidates to not endorse it.

[mckeown1128]

58. Obama wasn't endorsing it...

Obama's policy's run contrary to the unauthorized bigotry pouring out of McClurkin's mouth.

[LostinVA]

60. He endorsed it when he gave McClurkin a platform -- regardless of what his "policy" says

Actions speak louder than words.

[mckeown1128]

64. The platform Obama gave was for singing...not for McClurkin

to spout off. Like I said... I have a problem with McClurkin spouting off. Not with him being invited to sing.

[mtnester]

20. There is not a day that goes by

that I think "it could be my son, or my uncle, or my cousin" ...because it could

And the willingness to throw the GLBT community under the bus over and over and over.

The puke icon is not enough.

[mckeown1128]

29. I share your worry. I worry a lot about my brother.

But, I don't see Obama reaching out to all people..as throwing the GBLT communiyty under the bus. He is trying to bring people in to the party. Hopefully Obama's leadership will help change these people.

[mtnester]

33. He can KEEP the homphobe

our party does NOT need them

[mckeown1128]

39. How about trying to change them or at the very least....

use them to get Democratic policies (including Civil Unions)pushed through.

[mtnester]

43. Here is an easy answer

no..because people like McClurkin are not only homophobes, they are ex gay self hating homophobes.

There is only one way to fix that, and it is to open the closet door, which he supposedly has, and THEN says it is wrong to do so.

Do you not see how self haters who preach the hate are even WORSE than the "honest" homophobes (I think I am going to retch)

[mckeown1128]

48. Well, you just summed up the split in the party...

Hillary's people want to nail the Republicans. To divide. To draw lines. (which won't get anything done) And Obama's people want to reach out Republicans. To draw them in. To try to change them. (Which some...believe will be sucessfull) Now.. I don't mean to speak for other's but that is the way I see it.

[mtnester]

51. I have NOT decided on a candidate

my primary is next week.

[mckeown1128]

65. Well, by judging your opinions I would think that you fall into...

the Hillary mindset. In my opinion. I personally like how Obama is trying to do things. Reaching out. Unity for change. (That change includes protecting and respecting the GBLT community)

[mtnester]

73. Thanks for your concern and ability to read my political mindset

boogity

[griffi94]

44. the problem i have with this

is the people he's trying to bring to the party are largely refugees from the repub party who are switching side now that the gop is starting to sink. they haven't changed their politics, and they haven't changed their thinking. they've swamped their boat so they're invading this one.
their more like a flesh eating bacteria than voters you'd want on your side. they participate in politics like it were a spectator sport. win at all cost.

[mckeown1128]

52. I personally believe that bigots can change...

I think pushing them away doesn't help change them. Remember.. you have to talk to your enemy's too.

[griffi94]

59. it's not my place to try to change them

with a political party. that's what therapy is for. as a democrat i want the most progressive, open minded, rational, critical thinking candidates to win. i'm not interested at all in trying to change anybody. if they want to change they will, but if you allow hateful bullshit like this to stand so you can get them in the party so you can change them, well you're deluding yourself. why should they change when the message seems to be homophobic, they're already homophobes.

[mckeown1128]

66. at the very least you can convince them to elect Democrats...

thus giving us more ability to change the system into protecting the GBLT community.

[LostinVA]

49. Why does Obama think it's okay to reach out to homophobic bigots, but not racists?

Homophobia is just as bad as racism.

Would you be okay with a politician giving a platform to David Duke to try to bring people into the party and change them?

And, I just love the "I have a gay brother/friend/mom" card. It's almost as good as the "I'm gay, too!" card.

[mckeown1128]

62. Well, I don't like people implying that I don't care about the

GBLT community. I have people I care about too. If Obama wants to reach out to David Duke (so he can sing) then I don't see a problem with it. If David Duke goes off the script and starts spewing his racist BS then I have a PROBLEM. Like I said... Obama SHOULD apologize for McClurkin spouting his hatred. I don't however see a problem with McClurkin singing at the event.

[Solon]

72. Well its true, from your posts, I have to assume you don't give a shit about GLBT people...

that's the way it seems to me.

[mckeown1128]

74. Well, I don't have to prove myself to you. nt

[leftofcool]

17. Actually

There have been people who died either over the words of or the actions of homophobic idiots like McClurkin. Ask the parents of any gay man who was beaten and killed for his lifestyle. These statistics can be Googled.

Left of Cool

[AndyA]

21. What a ridiculous post.

Both were wrong. There is no excuse for either.

I would have expected Barack to be more sensitive to issues of bigotry, but apparently he's not.

I do not support Hillary or Barack at this point. Both are a compromise. We could have done better.

[leftofcool]

25. Edwards!

[cali]

27. Well, better tha John Edwards

is my opinion. He would have made a truly weak GE candidate.

[Straight Shooter]

37. "I think Hillary should apologize for the IWR."

I think you should apologize for your post.

[BuyingThyme]

42. Neither warrants an apology as neither would be sincere in apologizing.

[MonkeyFunk]

46. Let's see

if Clinton had voted no, the resolution would still have passed by a large margin, and not a damned thing would be different.

If Obama had "fired" McClurkin, a lot of GLBT people wouldn't be upset with him, McClurkin wouldn't have had a platform to spout his nonsense, and Obama would've been rightly lauded.

[mckeown1128]

57. I can turn your logic around....

if Obama had voted no, McClurkin would still be a bigoted gospel singer, and not a damned thing would be different.

IF Clinton had voted no, a log of Progressives wouldn't be upset with her, the NEOcons wouldn't be able to say that ALL of the prominent Democrats were for the war in the beginning, and Hillary would've been rightly lauded.


At least with Obama inviting McClurkin maybe Obama could've pulled a few McClurkin supporters into the party. Thus causing a few more to vote for democrats...giving us more legislative power to push for GLBT rights like civil unions.

[LostinVA]

69. You think bringing bigots into the party will make it easier for Dems to push for GLBT rights?

:rofl:

[donheld]

67. IWR

:popcorn:

[dsc]

68. I am sick to death of the notion that the likes of McClurkin don't kill people

I literally check in with a student at my school at least once per week because of my very real fear he will kill himself over dealing with being gay. No I am not making this up, I know he has threatened to do so in the past (to the point of having tried it while at school). I personally, tried more than once when I was in high school and even college. That doesn't even include the gay bashings which lead to death.

[MethuenProgressive]

70. "No one died over it for christ's sake." You are mistaken, my friend.

http://www.lambda.org/avp_gen.htm

[Solon]

71. Your argument is full of shit, and that's my opinion. n/t