Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

After much hope, this has become the most Depressing primary I can remember

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 03:28 PM
Original message
After much hope, this has become the most Depressing primary I can remember
Edited on Fri Feb-29-08 03:34 PM by Armstead
I know, I know. It's common to say negative things about primaries (or elections) at this stage of the game. Nerves are raw, it's all been said, there's been destructive divisiveness,and there's a general exhaustion.

But I gotta tell ya, as someone in my mid-50's who's lived through a lot of campaign seasons, this one has becomes about the most depressing and ennervating one I can remember.

It's SO WEIRD. Here we are, at a point in history when the Democrats have all of the stars in alignment for a landslide -- and a major swing of the pendulum towards the left. And the GOP had a bunch of clowns who were beating each other up mercilessly.

We started out with a good crop of candidates, representing a fairly broad spectrum. And the candidates were serious and substantial, whether you agreed with a particular one or not.

Although I knew he wouldn't win, Kucinich had at least a shot at injecting some good old liberal populism into the mix. Edwards seemed to have great potential to combine a center-left populism with mainstream appeal. We had some serious and experienced politicians in Dodd, Biden and Richardson. And we had two rockstars in the center, Hillary and Obama.

It was frustrating that Hillary seemed to have it locked up at the beginning. But it seemed that at least there would be a clear contest of ideas and approach as the primariues went on, with Hillary as the centrist DLC candidate against either a traditional democratic liberal or a progressive populist.

Then it degenerated into yet another battle of personalities. To heck with all those messy real issues. It slid into the Hillary Gang versus the Obama Cult. Rather than any meaningful debate over core ideals and specific substance, it became a contest of The Centrist versus The Centrist.

Real issues were boiled down to a choice between this and this. Relatively small and symbolic differences were magnified, while there is little examination of the forces that have gotten the US into its present predicament.

Instead of talk of fundamental reform, we end up with symbolic tinkering around the edges.

True Universal Health Care? Forget it. Off the table. Corporate Power? Off the table. The Free Trade Scam? Off the table.

So, rather than a productive tug-of-war with healthy differences being the focus, we end up with meaningless polarization and divisiveness over what candidate said what mean thing. Or which candidate is the Anti-Christ.

And we engage in the diversion of identity politics, as we dissect and attack each other and the other candidate over perceptions of sexism or racism, rather than the substance of what each candidate stands for.

I am a supporter of Obama now. My first choice Edwards is gone. He got Rockstarred off the stage, and with him went the last vestiges of a "grown up" tone to the campaign.

I appreciate the hope and enthusiasm that Obama has brought to the process. That's the one bright spot at this point.

I sure hope the General Election phase at least will be more substantial.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Chuck Todd of MSNBC actually made a good point a while ago..
He was talking about Hillary's "red phone" ad and said it was more of a general election ad. In the primary, it is more about personality than about the big issues. He thought at first that the ad was made by the McCain camp? He thought it went against Hillary's interest because it gave Obama another excuse to talk about the war, her major weakness? I wonder who advised her to run this ad?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. The GE phase *will* be more substantial...
As in the Dem turnout will be substantially MORE than the rep turnout. No matter what, we win. Its good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's not all doom and gloom...
I for one am thrilled that the Dems have a damn good shot to control the House, Senate, and Executive Branch for the first time in many years. Obama will sweep in larger Dem majorities then any of us have enjoyed in recent memory.

Amazingly, this means that finally - we may get real legislation through for and by We The People.

Primaries and politics is a full contact sport - the divisiveness you have seen among the Dems is small compared to the smear, lies, and dirty tactics that the pukes will throw our way this fall.

We need you and we need a unified party to no only weather the storm, but usher in Dem power in numbers we have not seen for a generation.

That happens, and you will be in a much better mood! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Maybe it's the snow -- Another gd foot tonite
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Apply Liquor Liberally
Helps when I'm snowed in.


:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KLee Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Where are you at?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Massachusetts
Or Freeze-achusetts this winter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. I would respectfully disagree with you...
...I can't remember a time when so many people were energized by their candidate. After 8 years of Bush, we need something like this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I agree...
I can't think of an alternative type of campaign that would be more exciting. It would be nice if the Hillary/Obama camps were a little more accepting of their opponent?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Where are you from in Kentucky?
Born and raised in Louisville myself. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. the mountains...
near Cumberland Gap. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think both candidates have similar goals...
the contest has really been about how best to achieve those goals. In a way, it is about style over substance, but leadership style does matter. I don't mean in terms who looks best on camera or who has the wittiest soundbites - more in the sense of how different people approach problems and deal with them.

Think back to you favorite boss or teacher in your past, and compare them with the least favorite. Both had the ability to 'get where they are' and end up supervising you (whether professionally or educationally), but there's probably a big difference between your happiness and productivity under different supervisory styles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reality Check Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. Obama has not brought hope at all. He has polarized the electorate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. ...
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Not true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Tell that to the millions of young people he's inspired to be part of the process.
Whatever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. Critical progressive issues are not being addressed as well as I would like
Edited on Fri Feb-29-08 04:30 PM by BushDespiser12
by these 2 centrist candidates. However, the level of involvement of the populace is a good step towards restoring something more akin to democracy. Let's hope that this election provides solid footing for reclaiming a Democratic majority so that we can push much harder for the necessary progressive reforms come 2012.

edit for speelin :9
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. The Democratic party has been depressing me for about a decade now.
x(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KLee Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Armstead...
I tend to agree with some of what you have said. I too have been disheartened at times during this primary season. What I have noticed though is it seems to come more from one side than the other, and the other side spends time defending rather than attacking.

One side states they want to talk about the issues, but sidesteps with attacks. That side has really good ideas if they would just stick to them.

The most consistent for me in actions and words has been one person and that is Barack. He sticks to what he says no matter where he is, and doesn't change his message depending on who is talking to like others.

We need that in this country, honest with us, no matter how hard the truth may be. It's not going to be easy, since GW has left us with such a mess, but I believe with Barack we can start to repair the damage that has been done to this country, not only in Americans eyes, but countries all over the world. We can be a Democracy again Of the people, by the people and for the people again, not just by the few. Without hope to make the changes we seek, there can be no improvement.

I get frustrated when I hear people making fun of hope. Since when is hope a bad thing? When our child gets sick, do we not hope that they will get better? It takes hope. When our parent is stricken with cancer, etc, does it not require hope for them to get better? Face it America is ailing right now, not with a human disease, but democracy is being stiffled out with the disease of destruction. If we do not have hope to turn it around, it will continue on its path.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Well the attacks on hope are part of what's so depressing
Regrdless of whether one supports Obama or not, seeing the attacks on the enthusiasm and involvement and sense of hope he has generated is one of the dispiriting undertones of this election.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoBorders Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. In general, people don't vote on 'issues'
They vote for the person they identify with, with all of the vagueness and irrationality that that implies. I know its frustrating for the more rational among us, but that's the way it is.

Read 'What's the matter with Kansas', or work by George Lakoff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. the media is never going to allow a "clear contest of ideas"
it's bad for their ratings.

That great squishy ignorant middle out there that decides our elections doesn't care about ideas. In the end they'll make their choice for the most mundane of reasons - they'll vote against Hillary because she reminds them of their Mom, they'll vote against Obama because he's black, they'll vote against McCain because he's old and ugly....

They'll vote for their candidates for reasons that are just as superficial - how else could we have wound up with a Reagan or a Bush?

It's depressing as hell, isn't it? I'm a few years, at most, younger than you, and many are the days I wished I lived in some foreign land where I couldn't read the papers, couldn't understand what they were saying on the tv - didn't have to care about politics, etc.

Maybe ignorance really is bliss.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. It will be better when Hillary quits
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. You have never been open minded to Hillary
It is my belief you have her all wrong. Further it is Obama that has killed discussion of the issues and moved the discussion to the right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. You are correct -- I haven't liked her or the DLC since about 1994
But I'm not talking about my personal preferences here, so much as what a moronic election is is boiling down to.

And there's anough blame to go around for that. Hillary has been just as eager to move the discussion to the right and avoid discussion of core issues.

IMO when Edwards got out, so did many important issues. What we're left with is a personality contest between two candidates who basically agree with each other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC