Ohio Union Officials have Questions for Obama

[boston bean]

March 1, 2008

Dear Senator Obama:

We were surprised and disappointed to learn that your top economic adviser reportedly had a secret meeting with a representative of the Canadian government where he dismissed your anti-NAFTA rhetoric.

According to Canadian news outlets, your adviser, Austan Goolsbee, told the Canadian Counsel General Georges Rioux that your criticism of NAFTA is “just politics” and should not be taken seriously.

After a series of misdirections and half-truths, it’s time for you to come clean about your campaign’s communications with the Canadian government about NAFTA. Enough with the non-denial denials and the Washington double-speak.

Many Ohioans are concerned about the issue of trade and we want answers to some simple questions:

1) Did you direct your top economic adviser - Austan Goolsbee - to tell the Canadian government that your speeches railing against NAFTA are just political rhetoric? If so, why?

2) Are you aware that Mr. Goolsbee held a secret meeting with the Canadian Counsel General Georges Rioux? Have you spoken with Mr. Goolsbee about that meeting and will you repudiate his comments?

3) Why has Mr. Goolsbee been unwilling to deny that he discussed your positions on NAFTA with Mr. Rioux? Why won't your campaign disclose the full details about that meeting?

4) Given these reports, why should Ohioans believe that you will act on the campaign promises you have made about NAFTA?

5) Sen. Clinton has issued a comprehensive plan to fix NAFTA. Why haven't you done so as well?

The people of Ohio are eager to hear from you - there’s too much at stake.

Sincerely,

Gary Dwyer, Secretary-Treasurer, Ohio State Building and Construction Trades Council

Barry Pickett, Business Representative, Sheet Metal Workers International Association, Local 24


http://www.taylormarsh.com/

[AtomicKitten]

1. I wonder if he'd be surprised to learn the Clinton campaign contacted Canada?

Hillary blames Barack for what she is doing, thinking she's a clever monkey in doing so, but most Americans have seen this dog and pony blaming act/pay no attention to the man behind the curtain routine before, and are now simply bored with her bullshit.

[boston bean]

2. The sign of desperation, blame someone else for your problems. nt

[AtomicKitten]

4. my point exactly

[Binka]

5. The OP Is Confused

Hillary's Sweat Army Is Desperate.

[boston bean]

12. Is this your new copy and paste. stop spamming the board. nt

[rodeodance]

49. tell the UNIONS in OHIO that--as letter was from them!

[FrenchieCat]

3. Taylor Marsh gets paid by the Hillary campaign,

and Those Unions have endorsed Hillary. http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=4260

They need something; anything. They'll take a lie and try to turn it into their truth, if they must....as usual. A controversy based on confusion is better than nothing at all, even if it is one built on lies.

Its the kitchen sink mantra.....throw "anything" at them, and as time is short, even if something sticks for a few minutes, that's better than nothing.

[boston bean]

6. Mark Halperin has the story too. Give it up Frenchie, if Obama lied to the American

People by telling a Foreign government one thing and then another to the American people he is in for some trouble.

[FrenchieCat]

7. The only story that Halperin has is the letter.....which is signed by

union outfits who have endorsed Hillary.

We ain't stupid, you know. We have all seen how a smear works.

The only fucking trouble is gonna be when Hillary looks around to see where all of the new voters have gone. But of course, she never has a plan till there is a crisis.....cause she always figures things will be just fine....which is why she's lost 11 in a row. But go ahead, by any means, and act like there is any facts backing this frail raggedy shit up....

[geiger]

15. It's becoming increasingly transparent, yet they still try.....

[rodeodance]

40. OHIO Union letter posted on Political.com--3/1/2008. also

[Maribelle]

9. The point you miss is that Obama either lied to Ohio or lied to Canada

Well, which is it? That's what the unions want to know.

Your pomp does not even go near Hillary's words.

Oh look at this shiny thing over here - - - merely typical Obama puff with no substance trying to weasle out of discussing the real issues.

[yourguide]

13. ROFL

No he didnt either lie to ohio or lie to canada. The campaign has already categorically denied that they had a phone conversation with anyone in the Canadian Govt.

You HRC supporters are so dense.

[Maribelle]

31. The denial was also a lie

[yourguide]

33. And you know that how???

oh, just because YOU say it is...got it :sarcasm:


:rofl:

[Maribelle]

35. Because you apparently cannot follow a thread, I'll ignore your sarcastic pomp and repost the link

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080228/turkey_Gates_080228/20080228?hub=TopStories

[yourguide]

37. I clicked the link

and got this:

Sorry, the article you are looking for has either been updated or transferred to another file.

Please use CTV.ca's search function to find the story.

However this story has already been debunked and denied. Done and done.

[Maribelle]

44. I just edited and it works fine now. CTV sticks to their story after Obama tried to deny it.

Try it again.

[yourguide]

57. as did the bush adminidtration

when they decided to go into iraq, means nothing.

[Maribelle]

61. The issue remains: did Obama lie to Ohio, or lie to Canada.

I know that issues are truly tuff stuff to Obama supporters, and you would much rather throw out stink bombs.

[yourguide]

63. No again

this was denied by the obama camp.

the issue is you stirring up BS or actually reading the denial.

[Maribelle]

64. They did deny it. What on earth is your point. After they denied it, their denial was debunked.

I gave you proof in the CTV link. No matter how many times you post that denied, denied, denied pomp you do not disprove the facts found on the CTV link.

Sorry you are proven wrong. You should attempt to get current now on your rants.

[aasleka]

8. Use your brain people, Canada would WELCOME free trade being tied

to standards for the environment and the worker. They are a socialist nation, they are environmentally ahead of us having recognized the danger of global warming and ratified Kyoto. Fair free trade means more jobs for them and less jobs for China, how utterly ridiculous anyone could believe an intelligient economist would ACTUALLY begin to think they would have to soothe Canada's fears over fair free trade topics in a primary debate.
Now if he had called Panama or Guatemala I would still think it was ridiculous. Use your damn brains people the supposed facts from this do not make sense it is a economic fear smear.

In conclusion the very premise of this situation does not hold water. What possibly could anyone's campaign have gained? Seriously, if you think it DID happen what was gained by the supposed statement?

[Maribelle]

10. I don't believe in this thread we are worried about what Canada wants or even thinks, except...

to testify that Obama is lying.

In conclusion, these signatory unions which just happen to be in the United States of America want the truth.


Do you have a problem with these unions receiving the truth?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

14. Unless i'm wrong, Canada has already denied any such contact

aside from some low level talk with BOTH campaigns about a variety of topics

[Iceburg]

16. CTV sticks by its claim, and Obama has not refuted the claim

its all over the Canadian newspapers. Further, and with reason, Canadians still trust their journalists.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

19. Canada's reply and Obamas

Canada's first
-
"No, none," Norton told me when I asked him if Michael Wilson, Canada's ambassador to the U.S., had spoken to any Obama advisers recently. He added: "Neither before the Ohio debate nor since has any presidential campaign called Ambassador Wilson about NAFTA."

Norton did allow, however, that the embassy on the staff level had discussed multiple issues, including NAFTA, with the Obama and Hillary campaigns at various times, and had urged them to look at NAFTA in a positive light.

"We've impressed upon them the fact that NAFTA has been good for all three countries," Norton said. "They have made it clear that NAFTA is an issue of contention in the , and that inevitably there would be discussion and debate surrounding NAFTA."

"They've heard us out on the issue of NAFTA and expressed understanding for our position. But the candidates and their campaigns have been very careful to refrain from making specific commitments," Norton continued, reiterating that no such conversation like the one described in the Canadian TV report ever happened.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/canadian_embassy_report_on_oba.php
-
And Obama
-
On his campaign plane, Obama said: "It wasn't true."

His campaign also denied the CTV report.

"When Senator Obama says that he will forcefully act to make NAFTA a better deal for American workers, he means it," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton. "Both Canada and Mexico should know that, as president, Barack Obama will do what it takes to create and protect American jobs and strengthen the American economy - that includes amending NAFTA to include labor and environmental standards."

http://news.aol.com/elections/story/_a/fact-check-obama-denies-report-on-trade/n20080228153109990013
-

[Maribelle]

22. After Obama's denials, CTV responded by naming names and Obama went suddenly quiet

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080228/turkey_Gates_080228/20080228?hub=TopStories

[Bodhi BloodWave]

23. Both Canada and Obama has stated it didn't happen, i think i'll take them both on their words

I posted both their replies in post 19

[Maribelle]

30. The information I supplied came after their replies - -CTV sticks to their story

"Sources at the highest levels of the Canadian government -- who first told CTV that a call was made from the Obama camp -- have reconfirmed their position"

[rodeodance]

54. Poor Judgement on part of OBAMA---he needs to clear it up with the unions

[aasleka]

59. It's been denied by all parties, if there is proof then support your

claim. I guess you don't understand that Canada would WELCOME fair free trade and so there would be no reason for anyone to call up Canada and say don't worry we don't mean it when we say we would change NAFTA to be better for Canada and the US. This is an illogical story and most likely a ploy based upon economic fears.

So if you can provide more substance than a story printed 4 days ago and has since been categorically denied by all parties I would welcome a second look.

[Maribelle]

60. You poor Obama supporters are not current with your information.

Please do try to keep up.

CTV has the latest, and evidently these union folks are cognizant of the latest.

[indimuse]

11. oh my, what webs we weave...

...

[NDambi]

18. It must be hard to be on the losing end...all the tail chasing and gnawing..I just

hope it wil be over soon. I can't much take the Hillary people bashing their heads against the wall much longer...doing any and everything to bring down Obama..


It's not going to happen.

[totodeinhere]

17. Couldn't you bring it in your heart to say even one little thing...

positive about Obama? It seems like it's nonstop negative about Obama from you and we don't need that attitude towards someone who will probably be our nominee for president if we are going to win in November.

[cd3dem]

21. positive about Obama? he's a good lier! satisfied?

[cd3dem]

20. Steel Workers Union picketing Obama head quarters in Ohio

just saw the video on the news...

[yourguide]

24. God the clintons are

f'n pathetic.

Obama's campaign has totally denied this, yet they send out their union thugs to picket.

wow. I cant wait until weds and we are f'n done with her. just done.

[cd3dem]

28. Union workers are not stupid followers... they are serious... and Obama is not fooling them

[yourguide]

29. Riiiight

That's why he has more union support than she does, including the teamsters.

I am over her shady politics, over it. I would love to tell her just pack up and go home but that would mean she's coming back to NY and after seeing the past 3 weeks of crap from her and the three stooges (penn, wolfson, ickes) I dont want her as my senator any longer - hell I dont even want her in the state.

[rodeodance]

50. Obama has displayed Poor JUDGEMENT on the issue.

[fedupinBushcountry]

25. Taylor Marsh

Credibility - :thumbsdown:

[rodeodance]

55. too bad that the u

Union letter is also posted elsewhere

You gonna do the Rovian KILL THE MESSENGER on the sites?

[fedupinBushcountry]

65. Stop it now

With your rovian smears. I am a democrat and a woman and I have an opinion, you don't like it tough shit. EOM.

[NYCGirl]

26. Do those unions know that Clinton's campaign manager is a union buster?

Or did she hide that like her income taxes?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2007/06/16/hillary_and_mark_penn/

Among the most controversial aspects of Penn's firm's business, from the liberal perspective at least, come under the category of "labor relations," a traditional euphemism for suppressing workers and thwarting their right to organize. Before Penn scrubbed his firm's Web site, it advertised this specialty and noted the firm's capacity to confront "Organized Labor's coordinated campaigns whether they are in conjunction with organizing or contract negotiating." Not the most graceful wording, but the idea is clear enough.

And in practice, as Berman reported, Burson executives have used these skills against two major unions seeking to organize workers at Cintas, the nationwide uniform-supply company, which may be the single most ambitious union drive in North America today.

So here was a conflict of interest that seemed both direct and salient. Sen. Clinton is a declared supporter of labor rights who often tells workers that she is on their side. Besides, she badly wants the support of the Teamsters and UNITE HERE, the unions seeking to organize the Cintas employees, not to mention all the other labor organizations that might help her win the nomination and the presidency. But on the issue of workers rights, her top advisor has been on the other side.

Or has he? Penn said that he had nothing to do with the Cintas account, even though he is Burson's CEO. Moreover, he took offense at the implication that he might be anti-union. He recalled that his father had helped to organize the poultry workers union in Queens, N.Y., where he grew up. Unsurprisingly, his indignation and sentimentality did little to persuade union officials of his sincerity. They know very well that Penn is among the leading figures in the Democratic Leadership Council, whose budget is underwritten by major corporations and whose policies favor business over labor. Even the lunchboxes at DLC conferences display corporate logos.

On June 6, in response to Berman's story, Teamster president James Hoffa and UNITE HERE president Bruce Raynor sent a letter to Clinton about Penn, expressing their "distress" over his firm's role in "the effort to undermine workers right to organize at Cintas, a campaign our unions are involved in, is particularly disheartening." Their letter went on to say that they "do not want to see you or the Democratic Party embarrassed. We look forward to hearing back from you on this matter." Other labor leaders, such as AFL-CIO president John Sweeney and Service Employees International Union president Andrew Stern, have privately told the Clinton campaign of their misgivings about Penn.

Whatever Hoffa, Raynor and their colleagues may have wanted to hear, it is hard to imagine they were satisfied with the Clinton campaign's response via Penn. Essentially, he replied that he hadn't done anything against labor. He didn't step down from his executive position at Burson (as even Karl Rove did in 1999 when he sold his consulting firm to work for George W. Bush's presidential campaign), not even temporarily. He certainly didn't order Burson to cease all union-busting activities. He merely "recused" himself from work on the Cintas account, which he insisted he had never worked on anyway, citing a convenient "conscience clause" available to all Burson executives who might find a particular account morally repugnant. (It isn't clear whether activating the conscience clause means giving up a share of revenues derived from the repulsive activities, or merely bestowing a patina of moral hygiene on the dirty money.)

[Maribelle]

32. The union questions are for Obama, not Clinton or her manager.

But thanks for showing off how Obama supporters will attempt to deflect the truth.

[NYCGirl]

39. The truth is that Obama has more union endorsements, including the Teamsters.

[Maribelle]

43. Are you having a problem with the questions these unions have asked Obama?

poor you

It's all Clinton's fault, isn't it.

[NYCGirl]

52. Clinton's fault? She hired the union busting dirtbag, didn't she? In fact, he's

worked for the Clintons a number of times.

[rodeodance]

58. Unions in OHIO put out the letter.

[geiger]

27. the Ohio union officials can kiss my ass; histrionics year after year add up to shit

[rodeodance]

38. ah gee---now you swear at the UNION--!! -but always ready to gloat how Obama gets union support!!

[Freida5]

34. Obama's lies are finally being challenged. Hurray

[rodeodance]

41. yes, -Unioon letter is posted on other web sites--see my post below

[rodeodance]

36. Posted on Political.com also*** Ohio Labor Leaders Call on Senator Obama to Come Clean on NAFTA

http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=2&subcatid=30&threadid=439442


3/1/2008
Ohio Labor Leaders Call on Senator Obama to Come Clean on NAFTA


COLUMBUS, OH - Gary Dwyer, Secretary-Treasurer for the Ohio State Building and Construction Trades Council, and Barry Picket, Business Representative, Sheet Metal Workers International Association, Local 24, issued the following letter to Senator Obama, asking him to come clean on press reports that his campaign offered private assurances to Canadian officials downplaying his anti-NAFTA rhetoric.

The letter is as follows:


March 1, 2008

Dear Senator Obama:

We were surprised and disappointed to learn that your top economic adviser reportedly had a secret meeting with a representative of the Canadian government where he dismissed your anti-NAFTA rhetoric.

According to Canadian news outlets, your adviser, Austan Goolsbee, told the Canadian Counsel General Georges Rioux that your criticism of NAFTA is "just politics" and should not be taken seriously.

After a series of misdirections and half-truths, it’s time for you to come clean about your campaign’s communications with the Canadian government about NAFTA. Enough with the non-denial denials and the Washington double-speak.

Many Ohioans are concerned about the issue of trade and we want answers to some simple questions:

1) Did you direct your top economic adviser - Austan Goolsbee - to tell the Canadian government that your speeches railing against NAFTA are just political rhetoric? If so, why?

2) Are you aware that Mr. Goolsbee held a secret meeting with the Canadian Counsel General Georges Rioux? Have you spoken with Mr. Goolsbee about that meeting and will you repudiate his comments?

3) Why has Mr. Goolsbee been unwilling to deny that he discussed your positions on NAFTA with Mr. Rioux? Why won't your campaign disclose the full details about that meeting?

4) Given these reports, why should Ohioans believe that you will act on the campaign promises you have made about NAFTA?

5) Sen. Clinton has issued a comprehensive plan to fix NAFTA. Why haven't you done so as well?

The people of Ohio are eager to hear from you - there’s too much at stake.

Sincerely,

Gary Dwyer, Secretary-Treasurer, Ohio State Building and Construction Trades Council
Barry Pickett, Business Representative, Sheet Metal Workers International Association, Local 24

[rodeodance]

53. k

[Arkana]

42. I wonder if anyone told them

THAT THIS NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

[Maribelle]

46. lol You should be more worried about what Obama told you.

CTV sticks to their story after Obama tries to deny it.


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080228/turkey_Gates_080228/20080228?hub=TopStories

[rodeodance]

48. "Sen. Clinton has issued a comprehensive plan to fix NAFTA. Why haven't you done so as well?"

Sen. Clinton has issued a comprehensive plan to fix NAFTA. Why haven't you done so as well?

[Evergreen Emerald]

45. why does the Obama camp remain mum? what are they hiding?

They should come clean.

[Maribelle]

47. How can you tell when Obama is lying?

His lips are moving. :rofl:

[rodeodance]

51. :-)

[rodeodance]

56. Thanks MassDem

[Hepburn]

62. Three more days....

....<sigh>

The desperation level on the Hillbots must be extremely high today. How many threads have they started on loooooooooooooooong discredited and debunked anti-Obama bullshit today?