Now I know why there was no impeachment

[NoBushSpokenHere]

It has become quite clear to me why Bush and Cheney were not removed from office. Nancy Pelosi would have been the first female President. She would have made an awesome! I have tried to withhold my thoughts on this from DU because I didn't want to contribute to the fighting here, but dammit, it is so clear to me now. And, to think of the lives sacrificed in that damn war just so someone else could be first!

Yes, it would be nice to have a female as President, but not HRC. My vote is going to the person who truly cares about those sent to fight an unjust war, Barack Obama!

Flame away, criticize if you must, I just had to get this in words so my soul can go on without as much outrage!

[JVS]

1. So HRC kept impeachment off the table?

:popcorn:

[DemBones DemBones]

4. Spineless Democrats like -- oh, Nancy Pelosi! -- kept it

off the table. She even said impeachment was off the table when she first became Speaker, which was one of the stupidest things any politician has ever said. She's been in the game long enough to have said something like "I don't anticipate impeachment being an issue, we are concerned with (list other issues)."
That would have left the door open for impeachment to become an issue without it being pinned as Pelosi's issue.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

6. Yes, but WHO initiated the talks of "Keep it OFF the table?" nt

[DemBones DemBones]

16. The DLC? Pelosi herself?

Are you suggesting Pelosi was pressured into saying it was off the table? Because if so, that's not a sign that she's make a good president.

Before anyone says it, for the millionth time, yes, HC voted for IWR, as did virtually everyone in the Senate. They were lied to and they were afraid to appear "soft on terrorism" when the media was squawking "WMD! WMD! The sky is falling! Hussein has WMD! Hussein must go!" and had most Americans convinced that Hussein was tied to 9/11.

Why they believed the lies when a great many of us saw it for a con from the get-go is something to think about. Did they really believe the lies or did they just act in their own self-interests?

Clinton is not perfect by a long shot but she doesn't try to claim she opposed the war from the start as Obama does when in fact in July 2004, during his campaign for the Senate, he said he basically agreed with Bush about the war.

Back in 2002, he made one (1) anti-war speech.

Since January 2005, when he became a Senator, he has voted yes on every bill to fund the war and voted to confirm the PATRIOT Act.

Explain to me how he is passing himself off as anti-war. It seems to be that people fall for the Audacity of HYPE.

Bottom line: Clinton could beat McCain. Obama could not. Do we want McCain?

[Vinca]

2. I hate to disagree, but I do. There's some evidence to suggest

Nancy and others had been briefed on waterboarding long, long ago and never made a peep. If she opens up the can of impeachment worms, that tidbit will crawl out.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

3. Show me evidence that HRC was for impeachment.......I haven't seen any to date nt

[DemBones DemBones]

10. Most politicians won't support impeachment because

they fear it would damage their careers. That includes Clinton and Obama, and Pelosi and Reid.

[mattclearing]

5. It's not that simple. Impeachment wasn't possible, and was likely to backfire.

Without an ironclad case beforehand, there's no reason to do it, because all it will do is rally a totally demoralised and weak enemy around a totally demoralised and weak president.

It risks the next four years to attempt to define the last eight years, which does the American people little good in the long run.

We'll regret not doing it, but I understand and respect the reasons for not doing so.

[tekisui]

7. THe most likely scenarios wouldn't leave it to Pelosi.

If chimpy was impeached first, dickie would be Pres, name a new VP in line to take the job if dickie were removed.

If dickie was impeached first chimpy would replace him and the new VP would be next in line.

If the were co-impeached, dickie would resign, chimpy would replace, and still no Pres. Pelosi.

[geiger]

8. There was no impeachment becoz Congress was complicit with the crime.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

9. HELL they both could have been easily locked up nt

[Clovis Sangrail]

11. That's stretching it a bit

I think Tekisui has it right.
There was never really a chance of Nancy becoming president as a result of the impeachment process, so not entering the process to avoid her becoming president doesn't make much sense.

It's not some sexist plot, but rather Pelosi's own incompetence.

[HamdenRice]

12. Point of info: Pelosi would not have become president. Remember Gerald Ford?

That is not how impeachment works -- even when both the president and vp are guilty of impeachable crimes. Pelosi would only have become president if Bush and Cheney had been removed simultaneously -- something Congress would not have done.

Cheney would be impeached and removed first; Bush would be forced to appoint a vp acceptable to Congress; then Bush would be impeached and removed.

Alternatively Bush would be impeached and removed; Cheney would become president and would appoint a vp acceptable to Congress; then Cheney would be impeached and removed.

My guess is that if impeachment does go forward, we will end of up President Colin Powell to serve out Bushco's term -- ie a republican somewhat less tarnished than the rest, with strong enough national security credentials to keep it together for the last year, with no presidential ambitions.

[babylonsister]

13. This doesn't make sense; Pelosi herself has kept impreachment

'off the table'. That's not the reason imo, and Clinton has nothing to do with it.

[Recursion]

14. Pelosi would only get the position if they had been simultaneously convicted

Which is not likely.

[napi21]

15. I think there MIGHT have been a bit of feeling on Nancy's part that

she didn't want to appear self promoting, BUT think about this logically. It is and would have been impossible to remove BOTH Shrub & Cheney at the same time! It's impossible even NOW to get ONE of them "removed from office"! You MIGHT be able to push through an impeachment vote, and that's a VERY BIG MIGHT, but when it got to the Senate for a conviction and expulsion from office, there's NO WAY it would EVER PASS! In fact the best you could hope for would be the impeachment smack on the hand and a permanent record in history that a Prez or VP was impeached.

I don't see that as meaning much, and I sure don't think Nancy was the reason impeachment was never persued. I really do believe it was, as they all said, they knew it would never pass and would just piss off enough people that it would jeopardise the Dem. majority.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. I'd agree with that but think it was stupid for Pelosi

to say impeachment was off the table. She's been around long enough to know not to make such a strong pronouncement that you might have to take back later. It would have been used against her if circumstances had arisen in which impeachment was possible and desired by most Americans.