Eleanor Clift explains her vote against Hillary

[BeyondGeography]

From a Q&A in today's NYT magazine:

Whom are you supporting for president?
I don’t want to say, because I don’t want to alienate one or the other. I would take either of the Democrats.

But as a feminist who wrote a book with your late husband about the prospect of a “Madam President”
— How can I not vote for Hillary Clinton?

Yes.
Hillary called me the day after (my husband) Tom died, and her first words were, “Oh, Eleanor, oh, oh, oh.” Six weeks go by, and I get a call from her scheduler. They set up lunch, and it was just the two of us. She has a well-deserved reputation for being loyal to people and remembering birthdays and illnesses and all of that.

And after that, you still didn’t vote for her?
I vote in the District of Columbia, and I agonized over the vote. President Clinton, in the lead-up to the South Carolina primary, wanted to make it hard for Democrats to vote against his wife. Instead, by seeming to inject race, he made it easy. That’s all I am going to say.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/magazine/02wwln-Q4-t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine&oref=slogin

[Spiffarino]

1. I was an Edwards guy

I though long and hard about whom to vote for if Edwards dropped out. After the Clintons' miserable miscalculation in South Carolina, that iced it for me.

No, I don't think it was "racist" in the sense that it was hatefully aimed against black people. But what it did was make race a factor in the Clinton strategy, and that made me very uncomfortable. When I looked at Barack Obama I didn't see a "black" man; I saw a person with great gifts vying to become President, exactly the same as I viewed Hillary Clinton. Other than the historic precedents set by both candidates, race never entered into the discussion among fellow Democrats until Bill brought up the "Jesse Jackson" comment.

Bill is no fool. Indeed, he has been one of the most brilliant political minds of the last fifty years. He knows Jesse Jackson is a dog whistle to certain segments of the Democratic Party. I suspect he was aiming his comment at the "lunch box" Democrats in the upcoming primaries to whom Jesse Jackson is, let's say, less than beloved. As a tactic, it was downright disgusting.

[writes3000]

2. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

You have nailed this perfectly.

This is exactly when I felt Bill Clinton went too far.

[Spiffarino]

6. It really hurt, because I liked Bill as a President

As a person he seemed a bit out of control, but as a leader there have been few better in our nation's history in terms of getting things done. Jefferson; Monroe; Polk; Jackson; Lincoln; TR; Wilson; FDR; Kennedy; Johnson; Reagan and Clinton: The things they accomplished certainly weren't always for the good, but they all had the skill and force of personality to drive public policy and achieve their goals.

We've had very few leaders like these among the forty-three Presidents. To now see Bill Clinton act like a typical campaign bomb-thrower lowers my opinion of him enough to consider taking him off the list. I suspect I'm not alone.

[Ravy]

27. I am sure it hurt Bill to be called a racist. And Hillary, too.

The first I heard it was when Bill was explaining that Obama spoke against war with Iraq, but when he announced for Senate he removed that speech from his website, then he correctly recalled how Obama had said he probably would have voted for the IWR when he was campaigning for Kerry, then how Obama has consistently voted to fund the war. He called Obama's supposed virulent anti-war stance a "fairy tale", which the Obama camp morphed into saying that Obama's run for presidency was a "fairy tale" and that Bill Clinton was a racist for believing a black man could not win the presidency.

The second thing I heard was Hillary talking about the importance of having the right people in the president's office at the right time, and used the example of LBJ being in there to pass the civil rights act. This pissed off some of the Kennedys who thought JFK should get the credit, and was called racist by people who said MLK was slighted. I don't think either were slighted if you look at the point she was making about the holder of the office of the presidency when legislation is passed.

I did hear about the Jesse Jackson comments, and I thought they were because Bill and Hillary felt that they had been stabbed in the back. I thought that was beneath him, but understandable after being called racist based on spin and lies.

I was an Edwards supporter, too, at the time, and while we were mostly getting attacked by Hillary supporters here, I felt a genuine sadness for the Clintons over the way their positions were morphed so they could be called racists.

[Spiffarino]

29. The "Fairy tale" comment didn't mean anything

That was a red herring. Anybody who paid even scant attention to what Bill said knew it wasn't about Obama's dream of becoming President. It was Bill framing Obama's Iraq War positions.

No, the ONLY comment I took offense to was the "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina, too" comment which was either blatantly race-based or alarmingly tone-deaf.

[Ravy]

30. I don't think he met anything racist either about the fairy tale comment...

but it was when the slide began because people heard "Obama's campaign is a fairy tale" after it was repeated. I am sure after it got repeated enough and elaborated on, it did sound like he made a racist remark. That is when the numbers started rapidly moving though. I think the JJ comment was actually the day after the SC primary, that is when I heard it, but he may have been repeating it over several days.

[Spiffarino]

31. The Jackson comment was after the SC primary

The "fairy tale" remarks were well ahead of the primary and they definitely DID have an impact on the SC primary. The MSM took Clinton's remarks out of context at every opportunity - which they always do - and it hurt HRC. I understand that completely. Anybody who paid attention would have understood what Bill was talking about. Sad fact is, most people don't pay much attention and let Charlie, Wolf or (ack!) Bill-O spin it for them.

I got turned around after the primary, when Bill brought up Jackson's win. That was the comment that bothered me; the "fairy tale" thing had no effect on me at all.

Was the comment "racist" or not? I always try to take such comments in the context of the person, and I don't think Bill is a racist. I do believe that Bill's underlying meaning was that race was a factor in Jackson's primary win. So what was Bill saying, that black people vote for other black people because they're black? I'm sure some do, and some whites vote only for other whites. The majority of both tend to vote for the person they think is best for the office.

[Renew Deal]

3. That is brutal.

:wow:

[Colobo]

4. It's beautiful.

[Cha]

17. Beautifully, brutally,

frank.

[From The Left]

5. Clift is a cool gal.

It took courage to push back against the Clinton machine!

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. "by seeming to inject race." Lovely, Obama shouts "racism" from the rooftops

and everyone buys it without ANY proof.

[writes3000]

8. Sorry for you, people actually LISTENED to what Bill said.

And they made their own decisions about it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

10. Right. Because when he said that Obama's stance on the war is a

fairy tale, that is racist. What a load of crap.

Oh brother. I cannot understand how it is ok with you for Obama to denigrate another democrat so horribly, especially one who worked his whole life for the rights of minorities. He pulled something worse than Willie Horton (and of course he could not have succeeded if it weren't for the press).

[writes3000]

11. As I've said many times, I didn't feel like that was a racist comment.

Although I do think he was trying to demean Obama's chances overall.

It was the Jesse Jackson comment that sent me over the edge. And that came straight from his own lips. No interpretation needed.

I absolutely believe Bill Clinton loves black people. He just didn't love the one who got in his way.

[Evergreen Emerald]

20. Of course he was trying to deman Obama's chances...this is politics

But he did it fair and square--talking about the issues. Obama used racism to gain the voting block of SC.

And frankly, I do not want a president who is willing to divide the democratic party and play on the fears of racism to win an election.

[NorthernSpy]

9. ooooorrrrr you could take Clift and the many who feel the same way seriously...

... instead of just shouting them down, for a change.

[JVS]

13. I think Elanor Clift is intelligent enough to see what's going on.

[union_maid]

14. Whatever it was, was right out there in the open

If you heard what Bill said...the "Jesse Jackson won SC" comment, then you knew what he was doing. He was trying to make Obama into the "black candidate". He was trying to put him in the same category as various candidates who ran to make some particular point, without ever having a hope of winning. It was a logical enough strategy, but the fact remained that he was, in doing that, taking a bit of a dump on a truly historic moment. Win or lose, Obama is a mainstream, viable candidate and that's a first. That's progress, overdue, but progress nonetheless. If Clinton's remarks had stuck, that progress would have been wiped right out.

[babylonsister]

15. Tell that to Clyburn, Leahy, Kennedy, Kerry, etc. Without proof? Right. nt

[beachmom]

33. Obama NEVER EVER shouted "racism". I believe it is YOUR candidate

who whines about being unfairly treated, and keeps talking about "being the first woman president". Obama, OTOH, has made sure that a) people vote for him for his ideas, not who he is (he only discusses that in terms of the American dream) and b) you will never hear him whining about racially sensitive remarks. He doesn't do that, and he never will.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Always liked Eleanor - this just reinforces my opinion. n/t

[Cha]

16. Fucking bil...does

it again.

[dsc]

18. It is threads like these which really burn up so many gays who got pissed by McClurkin

You know what, you have every right to be offended by what you percieve to be racial slights but then you turn around and call us phony gays for daring to get pissed at gay slights. That really does piss alot of us off.

[NorthernSpy]

22. no, it was the ~selectivity~ of the McClurkin outrage on the part of some...

... certain people who have been all too eager to give their beloved Hillary a free pass on her weak stand on the DOMA, or her association with Rev. Rivers, etc. It was that sort of two-facedness that made some people's McClurkin rage seem fake.


If you're gonna tell the story, tell it right.

[dsc]

23. and your outrage is just as selective

but of course you are allowed to feel the way you do.

[VotesForWomen]

26. correct; but racism counts, homophobia doesn't, don't you know? nt

[grantcart]

19. sometimes the softest jabs are the most deadly

[apocalypsehow]

21. Excellent article. K & R.

n/t.

[butterfly77]

24. I didn't think it was racist...

The media took that and ran away with it..

[VotesForWomen]

25. oh yeah, the clintons injected race.... blah blah blah. bs. nt

[Kahuna]

28. Listen up. There were many dog-whistles before Bill's JJ remark..

Many people were warning the Clintons about them, but they blew them off and insisted that they were going to do whatever it took regardless of who didn't like it. Jim Clyburn warned them. Ted Kennedy warned them. There was talk about the seeminly racist comments by Team Clinton in print and in the media. The Clintons wouldn't listen. They were off the hook. The issue was brought up during a debate and Hillary shrugged her shoulders and tried to imply that Obama was to blame. When the list of offenses by Obama's camp was brought up during the debate, Obama apologized for the list that reportedly went out to journalists. Hillary sat there in triumph that she had managed to make Obama look like the one injecting race.

Then! Just before SC, Bill went totally off the hook. Not once but twice. In one instance carried by CNN, Bill made the outlandish comment about Obama putting a hit on him. See video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvJJsXtpPvw

Then, if that wasn't bad enough, hours before the polls closed in SC, a reporter asked Bill what it meant that it took both him and Hillary for Obama to run against... And instead of answering that question, Bill blurted the now infamous comments about JJ winning. I was watching the all day coverage on MNNBC. Joe and Mika were arguing over the allegations about the racist remarks. Joe told Mika that he, being a southerner recognized the racist dog whistles that Team Clinton had been making. Mika said she didn't see it. Right after that, the now famous JJ video was shown. That was sometime between noon and 1pm. Not, AFTER the election results that the media has totally changed the dequence of the historical events. But that's how they roll as we all know. Mika was like, whoa! She said that she could no longer defend the Clintons against the charge because she had just seen it and heard it for herself.

See the JJ video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqd2dfjl2pw

You Billarybots can try to rearrange history if you want, but there will always be an accurante account of events, thanks to you tube. Hillary is responsible for her own woes.

[Tarheel_Dem]

32. Eleanor speaks for me....n/t

[grantcart]

34. kick