For the LAST TIME, Clinton supporters. SHE HAS TO WIN BIG TO EVEN CATCH UP!

[mudesi]

I don't know how many more times the rational ones among us have to point this simple fact out. It is, for all intents and purposes, already over for Hillary Clinton. The denial and the delusion I read here on a daily basis is astonishing.

She can "win" Texas and Ohio by 5 or 10 points. It won't make a dent in the delegate count! This is simple mathematics, people. This is not opinion or a "delusional Obamite" or any other such nonsense. It's the simple reality -you know- the facts.

Accept them. She needs a 60% winning streak from here on out. It can happen if Obama is hit by a major scandal of some kind, but that's it. Unless such a scandal happens, Obama isn't "going to" win the nomination, he has already won it.

So stop making us repeat ourselves! This has been rehashed by countless people dozens of times. You can't make 2 + 2 equal anything other than 4. Accept it.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

1. We'll watch and wait, and go by the results on Tues. It's no biggie.

After all, we're all on the same team, right?

[high density]

6. We would assume so

But Clinton is acting as if Obama is a Republican that must be taken down at all costs.

[Zhade]

65. I'm not on ANY team that rewards cheaters, so I will NOT vote for her. Ever.

NT!

[SoFlaJet]

12. are you?

some wonder...who will you vote for when Obama wins the nomination? Watch she won't answer it

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

14. "Watch she won't answer it". Even though I've said over and over I will happily vote for him.

Should I provide links to my repeated assurances? :shrug:

[bigtree]

2. Quit hollering at 'Clinton supporters'

Go play with your own campaign.

[BringBigDogBack]

3. Correct.

[Kahuna]

4. 'We can't hear you..la la la la la la la la la.'

For the record, I support Obama.

[Deja Q]

51. Singing "Deck the Halls" again? It's only less than 10 months to Christmas...

:D

[Kahuna]

53. LOL! Good one, TOAD!

;)

[OzarkDem]

5. For the last time

Obama's campaign doesn't make the rules - they're starting to look silly with this stuff.

[mudesi]

8. See this is what I'm talking about!

What rules? What are you even talking about? The "rules" of addition and subtraction? It's mathematics.

[OzarkDem]

17. Bush math

Please. The Obama is inventing this stuff.

[Forkboy]

24. I see this going the way of your traffic thread.

[Yael]

39. Inventing what?

[quakerboy]

73. "the obama"

is creating math? He must be even smarter than we had all realised.

[Patsy Stone]

93. It's like

the Iraq, and such as...

[rodeodance]

18. way past looking FOOLISH--

[mudesi]

22. The only ones who look foolish are the ones who insist that 2 + 2 doesn't equal 4

Did Clinton supporters sleep through math class or something?

[ClassWarrior]

110. Psssttttt...

(In case you hadn't noticed, a lot of 'em can't spell either...)

NGU.

[earthlover]

60. Do. The. Math.

Look at the remaining states and the delegates therein. Remember we have proportionate representation, meaning there are no winner take all states.

Obama is currently 150 or so pledged delegates ahead of Hillary. In order for Hillary to TIE, she needs 60%+ of all the remaining pledged delegates.

If she does not get 60% Tuesday, that percentage will only go up because the number of states has gone down.

Remember,too, that some of the remaining states are solidly Obama. So that means Hillary would have to do even more well in the remaining states.

This is why Hillary has to do 60% or more Tuesday, because after TX and OH, the only large state left if PA (and the polls have tightened there already, so hillary cannot count on 60% there either any more).

So....unless something happens to drastically change the equation....such as Obama being caught in bed with a teen ager or something....it is hard to picture Hillary catching up in the popular vote or pledged delegates.

Meaning, if Hillary is to win she has to make deals with the super delegates, who would be inclined to follow the will of the people.
Also, knowing that if she won the nomination while losing the primaries it would tarnish her victory to put it mildly.

This is not pro-Obama dream land. It is reality. At 3aM we need a candidate who can face reality. If Hillary doesn't win TX and OH convincingly, she needs to face reality and endorse Obama.

[ClassWarrior]

107. Is that Clinton's education policy? Math is silly stuff?

:rofl:

NGU.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. Welcome to DU lynyrd_skynyrd!

I always suggest new members read a few threads before posting their first one.
Welcome, and have a DU day! :hi:

[grantcart]

9. part of the problem is the will never wander into a thread with a title like

yours. You need to retitle it to say something like "Obama's secret arrest record"

if however any Clinton supporters have wandered in here please do not listen to us listen to this man:



Schumer also suggested that the current system of awarding pledged delegates is flawed. "The delegate counts are so close, and you can win a state by quite a lot and you still don't win the delegates by quite a lot,” he said. "Maybe that's a flawed system. But that will be for the next election, not this one.

"I think if you win a district 55 to 45," he said. "The delegates shouldn't be three to three. Yes, I think proportional representation makes some sense but they sort of overdid it."


and then he states

But he also said he doubted that one candidate would stay on long after it became clear he or she could not win the nomination.

"The number one thing that people worry about is that the candidates will cut each other up and make it harder to win the general," he said. "But I think that is not going to happen. Because everyone cares about winning so much. Not only the candidates, but the electorate. So if one candidate is doing something that is regarded as really self-destructive, of the ability to win, that's really going to hurt them."

"It would widely be regarded negatively in the electorate," he said.

[George_Bonanza]

10. But what about Working-Cass Female White Votes in Latino-Heavy States That Matter TM?

Aren't they the true Democratic demographic?

[Johnny__Motown]

They are watching the goal posts, as they move down the road on the back of a truck

[liberal N proud]

11. Do you really think this rhetoric is going to convince anyone?

I am sure that I am going to come to the internet to have someone do the virtual equivalent of getting in my face and trying to tell me that my ideals are wrong.


Everyone playing this game should think about how stupid it makes them sound.

[mudesi]

13. It's not rhetoric, IT'S MATH!

Is it really so hard to understand? This has nothing to do with "ideals". It's just reality.

[cali]

19. bwahahaha. says the poster who blamed Cindy Sheehan for her son's

death. Who the hell are YOU to lecture anyone after that disgusting outburst?

[Forkboy]

25. *SNARF*

It must be nice to forget what one did just minutes after doing it. :)

[liberal N proud]

64. WHAT? WTF

Blamed Cindy Sheehan?

I think you have the wrong poster. Never blamed Cindy Sheehan for anything.

:wtf::wtf::wtf:


:crazy: :think:

[Forkboy]

79. Well, I for one will apologize.

I did have you confused with another poster, ProudToBeLiberal.

I'm sure cali had you confused too.

My sincere apologies.

[JVS]

46. It's 3 AM and your candidate is losing badly. How will keep McCain from killing your dog?

[Zhade]

66. It has nothing to do with ideals, and everything to do with mathematical probability.

It does not favor Clinton at this point.

[JVS]

15. Here. Don't bother try to convince them, just keep these ready for Wednesday

[rodeodance]

16. oh stop with the Lectures!!--they are so so Bushlike!!

[mudesi]

26. Maybe you should have paid attention to the lectures!

When they were teaching you addition and subtraction, for example.

[Forkboy]

33. 'If nothing else works,

a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.'

[Zhade]

67. Yeah, like Clinton's lies, smears and attempts to cheat aren't.

Get a mirror, ace.

[AZBlue]

20. Oh, let's see how this one is spun?

Something maybe about Clinton purposely giving up votes this Tuesday as part of her grand plan to come back in April? Losing big is important for winning later on, doncha know?

[Forkboy]

34. It's "Bush math".

To think people pay to see comedians when they could just read DU. :)

[Yael]

42. Apparently Obama is inventing Bush Math

:shrug:

[rug]

21. For the last time, how big does Obama have to win to get a majority, not simply a lead?

[Zhade]

69. Um, is that "b*s* logic"? HE HAS A MAJORITY.

NT!

[rug]

86. I must have missed him getting 2,025.

A plurality is not a majority. He can't get it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

92. Actually, you're wrong...

in the FIRST place, as the math now stands, neither can get 2025 unless the other drops out. However, Obama still has a MAJORITY of the delegates thus far awarded. Should things continue as they have, he will enter the convention with a MAJORITY of the pledged delegates. A PLURALITY would be: most delegates in a three-way-race, but less than 50% of the total number. A MAJORITY is any number in excess of 50%. I would suggest you get a dictionary.

[rug]

95. I would suggest you get an abacus.

You can slice this baloney however you want but neither Clinton nor Obama will enter the convention with a majority of the delegates, period. Without the superdelegates neither has a majority. So it won't be decided until the convention and the fact is Obama, at the moment, is simply leading.

[Spider Jerusalem]

97. 'A majority of the pledged delegate total'...

total number of delegates = 4047, less 795 supers = 3352, a majority of pledged delegates (not superdelegates, who can, and WILL, change their vote) = 1677. Obama's current PLEDGED delegate total = 1193 (per RCP); with 981 remaining to be awarded, if he gets 50% of the remaining total (which seems a reasonable expectation given polling trends) he'll enter the convention with a majority of pledged delegates (1683). The superdelegates are IRRELEVANT TO THE EQUATION, because there has been an indication that they will support the clear leader in total delegate count should this go to the convention.

[backscatter712]

23. The only way Obama could lose...

is if he eats a baby live on CNN.

[From The Left]

27. Thank You for Explaining This to Them

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to explain delegate allocation and Hillary needs 60% to 65% to even catch up to Obama's delegate lead. But they keep saying, "Hillary is ahead in Ohio by 4 points, she's going to be president!"

Ah, no, she's not.

[TheDeathadder]

28. why don't you let the primary

be a primary and stop telling people over and over again "For The Last Time!!" There's zero favor of unity in that sort of rhetoric.

[Forkboy]

29. Hillary supporters response....

[KoKo]

30. Dunno....Huckabee is still in there...and haven't heard the Repugs calling for him to drop out...

:shrug:

[mudesi]

31. Christian conservatives who don't believe in evolution

You expect them to grasp basic arithmetic?

[skipos]

37. Uh... Martinez, Bennett, Perry... those (R)s after their name mean they are Republicans, right?

Plenty of Republicans are calling for Huckabee to drop out. The good thing for them is that MSM currently ignores Huckabee. They won't ignore Clinton.

[Bullet1987]

94. That's essentially the issue here

it's easy for McCain to ignore Huckabee because he gets very little media attetion and the MSM has already written him off. For Clinton it's the polar opposite...even if she doesn't get the votes she needs on March 4, they'll keep her in the news and pretend she still has a chance.

[BeatleBoot]

32. So, she still has a chance.

[frogcycle]

35. NOBODY IS MAKING YOU REPEAT YOURSELVES

geez louise

Your facts are accurate. Unless hell freezes over, you will be proven right. You don't need to keep insisting. Nobody is making you. Just sit back and wait to say "I told you so."

[C_U_L8R]

36. no matter what you KNOW they're gonna claim victory

and probably not have the decency to concede either... again.

How many times do they have to lose before this game is finally over ??

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

45. Hey, fellow Democrat!

We're all in this together. Power to the people! :toast:

[C_U_L8R]

58. I agree

hugs all around !!

[TheDeathadder]

57. why does it bother you

to let the primary be a primary and let the states that didn't vote yet vote?

[MojoMojoMojo]

38. 9% of Obamas Texas voters are Republicans .Should they

determine who wins the Democratic nomination?
I think the Florida and Michigan Democratic voters should determine our nominee.
Sorry, but Republican voters should not be allowed to participate (spoil) in any Dem state primary.

[Arugula Latte]

40. Well, them's the rules now. So...You can work to change that, after the election.

But that's how it is right now. You can't change the rules mid-stream just because your candidate isn't doing well.

[Gore1FL]

47. That would be up to the individual states to decide

It is a matter of law and election procedure. Whether or not the point is valid, it is really moot in the scope of existing facts that are not going to change by tuesday.

For the record, MI allows crossover voting, as does FL. Those contests, however violated the rules that our party does, in fact, control.

Although one could argue that caucuses are the most party-oriented event and Obama has won most of those contests--arguably all if you count wins as delegate majorities.

I'm not trying to create flamebait here. I am just trying to point out that nothing is new here since the race started, when no one seemed to think any of this was an issue. I don't like to see rules change to favor or disfavor one candidate or another--that's the sort of thing that created the Florida 2000 mess.

I am an Edwards refugee. I tend to lean Obama because he is closer on par with the Edwards issues cared most about. I will vote for the Democrat in the General election, regardless.

[Ravy]

41. That is supposing that the Super Delegates use national

pledged delegate totals to cast their vote. I don't believe they will. They will look at perhaps their constituencies, or the national popular vote. With big state wins in blue areas, Clinton will have a case to make for their vote.

[Gore1FL]

52. Perhaps

But assuming a current lead of about 150 delegates, Clinton would have to take 475 of the super delegates out of the 800. she has about 236 now. Obama has about 185. This means out of the 321 remaining she needs 239--assuming they average a tie for delegates in every remaining contest. Both of those are a long-shot even under the best of conditions,

[Ravy]

55. If there is one thing we have seen, things can turn on a dime this year.

Personally, I will be happy with either candidate. I do not view them as equal though. Hillary is above average pretty much across the board (in my book), Obama is way above average in many areas, below average in others, to where I rate them close to the same overall.

[MojoMojoMojo]

68. The Superdelegates should look at total registered Dems votes

Republicans dont count.

[Ravy]

72. That is one school of thought. I imagine some of them are.

Superdelegates can vote using whatever criteria that they want. I am sure there will be many ways at arriving at their eventual vote, just like everyone else.

[Hugabear]

109. And how, exactly, are you going to determine which votes should and shouldn't count?

We all know that there are rethugs voting in the Democratic primaries - at least, the ones that are open primaries. But how do you determine which candidate they voted for? Do you have some sort of magical mind-reading device? Or are you going to assume that every single one of them voted for Obama? Because I've heard quite a few rethugs say that they'd rather face Hillary in the GE, so it would make sense that at least some of them would vote for Hillary in the primaries in order to make that happen.

[Window]

43. ..

[Yael]

44. Math should be banned from the primary process immediately!!

Its sexist, damnit.

[adoraz]

54. LOL!

[tandem5]

48. if you're certain of his winning the nomination then be at peace. nt

[mudesi]

49. I'm not certain, the numbers are certain

For God's sake, people. It's arithmetic.

[tandem5]

50. be at peace nt

[shraby]

56. And she says Obama is running on "hope".

She's running on a wing and a prayer like a teenager coming home from a date and hoping he makes if before the tank runs dry.

[TexasBushwhacker]

59. Who taught you math?

Yes, according to CNN the delegate count right now is 1369 Obama to Clinton's 1267. 2025 are needed to win, so Obama only needs 645 to Clinton needing 747.

Okay, there are a total of 4049 delegates. 2636 have already been decided (pledged and superdelegates) so that leaves 1403 that are still up for grabs. 60% of 1403 is 842. But Clinton only needs 747; just 54%. Are you math-challenged, or did you just exaggerate? No doubt, Clinton is fighting an uphill battle, but it's not nearly as steep as Obamites would like us to think.


Now, here's the thing. Only 502 delegates will be up for grabs over the next 2 weeks. Not enough for Clinton, even if she got 100%, and not enough for Obama even if HE got 100%.

I supported Edwards at the beginning. I was, and continue to be, heartbroken that he was forced out of the race, but frankly, if I have to choose between the two on issues, I'm going with Clinton. I will gladly vote for either of them in the GE. McCain in the WH would be nothing short of catastrophic. But on Tuesday, I'll be caucasing for Clinton, and no amount of bullying or bad math will change my mind.

[mudesi]

61. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4849838&mesg_id=4851451

And there are several other threads on the subject over the last month or so. You can search for them if you like.

[TexasBushwhacker]

63. No thanks. I did my own math.

The problem with the post you referenced is that it assumes the following is correct:

"Obama is currently 150 or so pledged delegates ahead of Hillary. In order for Hillary to TIE, she needs 60%+ of all the remaining pledged delegates." In fact, he is only ahead by 100 to 110, depending on who's doing the estimating.

CNN - 1369 TO 1267 - A difference of 102

CBS News - same numbers

MSNBC - 1194 TO 1037 - A difference of 157 BUT they count all superdelegates as "uncommitted", and we know that's not true.

I think it's like when you tell someone a rumor, and they tell someone, and so on, and so on. The story changes a little every time it's told, and each teller puts their personal spin on it. And let's face it, most people pay attention to the numbers that say what they want them to say. Nevertheless, the fact still stands; only 502 delegates are up for grabs over the next two weeks, and BOTH candidates need more than that.

[TheDoorbellRang]

83. The post you reference is referring to pledged delegate difference only, which is about 150

Most sites mix in SD's with their totals, in which case the difference is closer to 100. This site shows totals from several sources, and breaks down the PD and SD running tally, too.

There were a total of 3253 pledged delegates and 796 super delegates up for grabs this year. Take out MI and FL 313 pledged and 53 super delegates. Then let's take out Edwards' 26 PD's because who knows where they'll go. That leaves 2914 PD's and 743 SD's for our candidates to nab. Half of 2914 is 1457. From demcom link, AP shows Obama at 1187 PDs. He needs 270 more -- 39% of remaining PDs -- to hit 1457; Clinton is at 1035 PDs. She needs 422 more -- 61% of remaining PD's -- to reach 1457. Then they can slug it out with SD's to see who can get 568 of 'em to reach 2025. This scenario would favor Hillary as the SD count stands now, BUT there's one other problem with the PD race:

In order for Clinton to get 61% of the remaining PD's, she's probably going to have to get an even higher percentage of votes, since the delegates don't necessarily get apportioned in exact percentages. Eg., in Alabama Obama won over Clinton 56-42%; the delegate count, however, was 27 for Obama and 25 for Clinton. If it had been apportioned according to the vote, it would have been at least 29 for Obama and 22 for Clinton, with one left over. Oddly enough, I haven't heard any complaints from the Obama campaign about how unfair it is...

[Bullet1987]

96. The problem with your numbers is that you're lumping

all of the states together. Hillary Clinton is not going to win some of the states...which is why the percentage she needs to catch up is so high. It confuses people when you say she only needs 60% of the remaining delegates...which may be true but it's kinda misleading. What should be said is that she needs around 65% of the vote in EACH remaining contests to even catch up! With the knowledge that she's only won a couple of states by that large of a margin...the probability that she gets that much of the vote in EACH STATE from here on out is highly unlikely.

Also acknowledging what I just said about her not winning every state anyway...after March 4 the percentage is going to be closer to 70% in the remaining states. So you may lump together all of the states and say she still has a shot, but when you break it down by looking at EACH STATE it becomes clearer that she doesn't have much of a shot. At this point, the nomination is Obama's to lose.

[TexasBushwhacker]

105. Fair enough, but it will still not be decided this month

With only 502 candidates at stake, it's not enough to get either of them to the magic 2025. Since none of the Democratic primaries are winner take all (like some of the Republican's) they will continue to split the votes, and the superdelegates can still change their mind at anytime, or remain publically uncommitted.

I have no doubt that the Obama camp would like her to drop out if she doesn't have a good showing during the next 4 primaries. Nevertheless, I hope she stays in the race until the end. Let it be decided at the convention. We haven't done that in 50 years!

[polichick]

70. Why do you say Edwards was forced out of the race?

I was a supporter too, and have yet to receive an email with any kind of explanation whatsoever.

[TexasBushwhacker]

103. He would not have left before Super Tuesday on his own

Rumor has it that Ted Kennedy and/or Howard Dean demanded that he drop out. They thought that with him out, the candidate would be decided on Super Tuesday. They were wrong.

[RememberWellstone]

62. Not giving up!!!!!

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS PRINCIPLE??? I already for Hillary here in FL, I am supoporting as as long as she is running..these ignorant calls for her quitting are just making me and whole lot of Hill supporters evenn more ardent!!

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

71. K&R for the Math. nt

[LisaL]

74. No she doesn't.

Neither one is getting enough votes for the nomination, and then it goes to the convention.
Is that so hard to understand?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. Wahhhhh Wahhhhhhhh Hillary's Not Dropping Out Yet. Wahhhhhhhhh Wahhhhhhhh Change Me.

wah wah wah wah complain complain complain moan moan moan roar roar roar yawnnnnnnnnnn

Yeah yeah, i know, we'll be the ones going wahhhhh on tuesday blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[mudesi]

76. Hey OPERATIONMINDCRIME

You just accused someone in another thread of being childish.

There is nothing in my OP that is false. Not a thing. You lose again!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. Wahhhhh Wahhhhhhhh Hillary's Not Dropping Out Yet. Wahhhhhhhhh Wahhhhhhhh Change Me.

[mudesi]

80. You need to grow up

How immature.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

81. Wahhhhh Wahhhhhhhh Hillary's Not Dropping Out Yet. Wahhhhhhhhh Wahhhhhhhh Change Me.

So many tears from the Obama side today. It's like you're all becoming cartoon characters or something. It's hilarious to watch.

[mudesi]

82. You're funny

:rofl:

[berni_mccoy]

78. Don't worry. She had her Macaca Moment tonight on 60-minutes. She's done.

[Avalux]

84. I missed it - what happened?

Thanks. :hi:

[berni_mccoy]

85. It's absolutely disgusting, but here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4851016

[Avalux]

87. Oh my; she certainly didn't help herself there.

I will try to find the video but from what I've read on that thread, she left room for doubt in the minds of Americans. Dirty tactic.
x(

One thing about that though - what if Obama was a Muslim? They were talking about it as if it's a horrible thing.

[berni_mccoy]

88. Video Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x99904

[Avalux]

90. Thanks.

I hope to god this whole thing ends on Tuesday. Hillary needs a vacation.

[Arkansas Granny]

89. We are fully aware of that. There is one thing I know for sure, however.

Hillary is not a quitter, which is something that I have always admired about her, and I don't think she will leave this race as long as there is even the slightest chance that she may be nominated. As long as she is willing to run, I will continue to support her.

[anamnua]

91. Not so hidden agenda.

Can people not read the signals here? There is an undercurrent of quiet desperation on the part of the Obama campaign to get Hillary OUT before the Rezko trial gets going.

[grantcart]

98. even the media understands it

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080302/NEWS01/303020032

Delegate math tough for Clinton

As much as Hillary Clinton wants to win Ohio on Tuesday, a two-percentage point win won’t do her much good.

Under the complex mathematical formula the Ohio Democratic Party will use to divvy up the 141 delegates at stake in the Ohio primary, a candidate has to win big –really big – to win the lion’s share of the delegates.

And not all areas of the state are created equal. Southwest Ohio’s congressional districts can provide candidates only four delegates each; the more Democratic-rich congressional districts in Northeast Ohio get more.



In districts with four delegates each, a candidate could win 60 percent of the vote and split those delegates right down the middle with the candidate who had only 40 percent.

“It’s a very complex system, and very hard to understand,” said John C. Green, a political scientist at the University of Akron. “But the bottom line of it is that if you are going to win a lot of delegates, you’d better win big.”

Obama and Clinton are competing on two levels – statewide and at the congressional district level. The 18 congressional districts have 92 delegates to be chosen, while another 49 delegates will be chosen at large

[grantcart]

100. We are really really desperate - that Clinton supporters learn how to read

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080302/NEWS01/303020032
Delegate math tough for Clinton

But there's one undeniable fact among Democrats: They overwhelmingly think that Obama will win the November election, regardless of whom they support in the primary. Even nearly a third of Clinton supporters in the poll expect Obama to be the next president.

One of them is Diana Brenner, a 54-year-old psychologist from Columbus, who said she likes Clinton's experience and the way she can specifically explain her positions on health care and the economy.

[grantcart]

99. #98 below found a pretty good explanation in Ohio newspaper

[JCMach1]

101. For the last time, Obama Supporters, unless he wins big 60%+ he can't win the nomination

Without the superdelegates---


Neither candidate can... so drop the spin.

Obama has to win exactly the same way Hillary would have to.

[BenDavid]

102. it tis all about the MO....obama does not look as good as he once

did....buyers remorse is sitting in on obama, and folks are finally beginning to see that it was obama and his campaign staff along with some of the msm that were behind the race baiting and race card playing prior to South Carolina.....

Obama's "hole in his soul" is getting bigger by the day.....

[DUyellow]

111. 20 point jump, thats some buyers remorse. LOL

[mattclearing]

104. Dunno if you've noticed this, but the Hillary people aren't so good with the delegate math.

As evidenced by their losing campaign.

[snooper2]

106. It's all about Rhode Island now...

Texas doesn't matter, and Ohio may or may not matter, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Hugabear]

108. The primaries were supposed to be a mere formality - she'll fight to the very end

How dare this uppity Obama try and stand in her way? Doesn't he realize that she's a CLINTON, and that this is supposed to be her moment? I fully expect to see Hillary fight, claw, and scratch to the very end, even if it means tearing the party apart. After all, it's not official until the delegates cast their votes at the convention, right? This is all about Hillary's quest for power, it has nothing to do with what's best for the party at this point.

[Jennicut]

112. Come one everyone! Has anyone even listened to Chuck Todd?!

Hillary needs 60% of the vote in all the remaining contests to even catch up to Obama. Neither will get to the official final amount of delegates to emerge with the nomination. However, if Obama has a huge or even small delegate lead by the end of this whole primary process, it is up to Hillary to then fight it out over the "superdelegates" instead of standing aside and have the superdelegates ratify the candidate who has more delegates. If she does that, many believe she will risk fracturing the Democratic party and ensure that the Republicans will most likely win in November. That is it folks. If Obama was behind Hillary and were to pull this I think people would be telling him not to do it for the sake of the party. After this election is over, the Dem party needs to go back and rewrite the delegate process. Superdelegates were a dumb idea. Proportionality seems okay as it gives everyone in each district in each state a say in the process. We will see what happens tomorrow night but Hillary really needs to do well or she risks standing in the way of Obama gathering full support of the party and the public against McCain.

[Dogmudgeon]

113. So how does Obama get to 2025 delegates?

He doesn't.

Neither of them have much of a chance; Obama is ahead of Clinton, but it's the equivalent of a fifth-inning score of 4-3 about to be delayed by rain.

A large number of Obama supporters keep pushing the idea that there is no way Hillary can win, and if she doesn't submit to defeat early, they intend to blame her for any failure Obama has in the general election, if he makes it there. The dismissive tone of these posts approaches the point of comedy. It tells the world that Team Obama is averse to conflict and can't deal with a protracted battle. And considering that the battle between Obama and Hillary has been so genteel, it paints us all as slap-fighting sissies.

In spite of the press narrative about how the insurgent Obama has driven a stake through the dark heart of the monstrous Clinton, she is still doing pretty well. Besting her by 5% nationally is NOT a slam-dunk win. If Obama wins, he will have a big job selling Clinton's supporters that he isn't just some P.T. Barnum figure, and that he doesn't share the excesses of his supporters.

Hillary will not and should not concede unless she loses both Ohio and Texas by margins that give Obama significant comfort. A relative loss of 2% of the delegate balance will not be enough anymore. It is no longer her primary day to lose, it is Obama's to win. When you have lived by the Narrative, you must risk dying by the Narrative, the same way Hillary Clinton has.

And as I have said before, I will happily support the winner.

--p!

[grantcart]

114. he just has to keep on doing what he has been doing