Sorry, But Steinem and Clark need to Layoff the McCain CinC Argument now

[JCMach1]

While to a certain extent what they are saying below is true, I don't think it will wash well with the American people (especially during war time). I am sure McCain is formulating his comeback lines as we speak.

And, frankly, Clark is just wrong here. Generals (those great strategic thinkers) also include people like Tommy Franks et al who get us involved in shooting war in Iraq without an exit strategy and with too few troops at the beginning to do the job. Civilians also can do (and screw-up-- think Rumsfeld and Bush) the job as well.

Sorry, but these are some cheap shots on McCain that will only backfire.


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On a just-finished conference call in which retired military leaders endorsed Hillary Clinton to be commander in chief, retired General Wesley Clark said John McCain's military experience is not the right kind of experience to command the nation's armed forces:

In the national security business, the question is, do you have — when you have served in uniform, do you really have the relevant experience for making the decisions at the top that have to be made? Everybody admires John McCain's service as a fighter pilot, his courage as a prisoner of war. There's no issue there. He's a great man and an honorable man. But having served as a fighter pilot — and I know my experience as a company commander in Vietnam — that doesn’t prepare you to be commander-in-chief in terms of dealing with the national strategic issues that are involved. It may give you a feeling for what the troops are going through in the process, but it doesn't give you the experience first hand of the national strategic issues.

If you look at what Hillary Clinton has done during her time as the First Lady of the United States, her travel to 80 countries, her representing the U.S. abroad, plus her years in the Senate, I think she's the most experienced and capable person in the race, not only for representing am abroad, but for dealing with the tough issues of national security.


Speaking just after Clark, retired Admiral William Owens, former vice chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, said, "I would just say that I agree with Wes on that."... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3206701

Feminist icon Gloria Steinem took to the stump on Hillary Clinton’s behalf here last night and quickly proved that she has lost none of her taste for provocation.

From the stage, the 73-year-old seemed to denigrate the importance of John McCain’s time as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. In an interview with the Observer afterward, she suggested that Barack Obama benefits—and Clinton suffers—because Americans view racism more seriously than sexism.

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“Suppose John McCain had been Joan McCain and Joan McCain had got captured, shot down and been a POW for eight years. , ‘What did you do wrong to get captured? What terrible things did you do while you were there as a captive for eight years?’” Steinem said, to laughter from the audience.

McCain was, in fact, a prisoner of war for around five-and-a-half years, during which time he was tortured repeatedly. Referring to his time in captivity, Steinem said with bewilderment, “I mean, hello? This is supposed to be a qualification to be president? I don’t think so.”

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UPDATE: The Clinton campaign sends over the following statement from Howard Wolfson: "Senator Clinton has repeatedly praised Senator McCain's courage and service to our country. These comments certainly do not represent her thinking in any way. Senator Clinton intends to have a respectful debate with Senator McCain on the issues."

Read more: http://www.observer.com/2008/stumping-clinton-steinem-s... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3206775&mesg_id=3206775

[bluestateguy]

1. When they apologize for what they did to John Kerry in 2004, I will agree with you

But until they do, I say, pull no punches.

[sandnsea]

2. But being first lady does

:eyes:

We cannot have these people campaigning, if this is how they think they're going to win. You do not denigrate a POW. Good lord how stupid.

[FrenchieCat]

4. that is the problem from where I sit......

If Clark was running, I would agree that he is in a better place to be CIC. Hillary, not so much.....especially because of her wrong "Red Phone" answers in 2002 and in 2007.

[Bucky]

3. That's not how I remember the press treating the women captured in OIF

The women who got captured got treated, even to the point of being hyped, as heroes.

Steinem's a god in my book, but she's dead wrong, tone deaf, and just a little too smug here. She needs a new patter than "suppose Clinton's opponent were a woman". It keeps on back firing on her.

[tblue]

5. All I can say is, Wes Clark knows a hell of a lot more about what would make a good Commander in

Chief of the armed services than I'll ever know. I trust his judgment on all things miilitary. And these comments are nothing compared to the personal and baseless smears of Hillary and Obama coming from the Right. So, John McCain, you'll just have to defend your damned self. You'll get no help from me.

[lapfog_1]

6. Good god.

McCain spent years AFTER returning from being a POW in Vietnam, as commander of a Navy squadron. Before he was elected to office. He has also spent 25 years in elected office. More than Hillary and Obama combined.

He has the experience, both military and political.

Attack him on his policies, his record, his proposals or lack thereof. Attack him for corruption and cronyism while in office. Attack him for being too old to serve as President.

But don't attack him on HIS EXPERIENCE. Especially when all you have is someone that traveled the world as a glorified TOURIST!

jeebus... what idiots are running camp Hillary???

[spag68]

7. Read the book Sailors to the end.

[lapfog_1]

10. Ok, what about it?.. and no, I'm not running out to buy it.

McCain was piloting a plane that was struck by a missile that misfired while both planes were on the deck of the Forrestal, the resulting blasts (presumably by the bombs from McCain's plane, surrounding planes, jet fuel and from bombs waiting to be loaded) caused a huge fire that resulted in 134 sailors losing their lives and another 161 injured. McCain was the pilot of the plane initially hit by the misfired rocket.

Is there anyone blaming him for the fire? Or blaming him for escaping (in a daring feat, he freed himself from his stricken aircraft, scrambled down the nose (that's not easy) and edged out on the refueling needle at the front before leaping to safety.

Are we out to swiftboat McCain for this incident? Or for his time in the Hanoi Hilton? Really?

I know the right wing radio nuts want to do that... they are welcome to it.

[TwilightGardener]

8. I am of mixed feelings about this--on one hand, I don't think McCain's

service is untouchable and is open to examination, simply because he offers it as his major qualification. Clark can certainly go there--he is NOT in thrall to military guys, because he's a military man himself (high ranking, too). My husband (NOT high-ranking: company grade AF officer) is the same way, he doesn't hold his commanders in awe, and some of them he personally thinks are just incompetents, ass-kissers and assholes. It's like any career, with the usual hierarchy. Gloria Steinem...I dunno. However, my concern is for the backlash that may result with the public for criticizing him or appearing to minimize his service.

[theboss]

9. Let's at least try to be truthful about McCain's record

He was a hell of a lot more than just a fighter pilot.

He commanded a squadron and later became a liason to Congress.

We can beat him without making stuff up, Wes.

I think you can take a little issue with his military record if you wanted to. His grades at Annapolis. The fact that he was known for being irresponsible in his early days and crashed three jets. His utter inability to climb the ranks once he returned home. His philandering while still an officer.

Still, I think there is a lot more to attack in his record in the Senate. And I don't think you need to lie about his actual military accomplishments.

Basically, attacking his military record is simply too dangerous and ugly a tactic.