A dose of realism for the Hillary supporters

[Citizen Kang]

Your candidate (gonna yell for the hearing impaired) HAS TO WIN ALL OF THE REMAINING PRIMARIES BY AT LEAST 30% TO CATCH OBAMA IN THE DELEGATE RACE!!!!
Even if she wins the popular vote in Texas, she will still most likely lose delegates. She won't win by enough in Ohio and Rhode Island to make any impact on Obama's lead. Obama will in Vermont, he will win Wyoming and Mississippi before Hillary gets another chance to win in Penn and pick up more delegates in a state than Obama.

This leaves Hillary with some very unappealing and undemocratic options. She could try to force the DNC to seat the delegates from Michigan (where only Hillary was on the ballot). She could try to force the DNC to seat the delegates from Florida (where everyone agreed not to campaign) or she could try to force superdelegates to vote against the majority of Democrats who voted in their primaries. All of these options would throw the party into chaos and completely destroy any chances of a Democrat winning the White House in 2008.

Which leaves me wondering.....the writing is on the wall for Hillary, there is nothing she can do to win except the options I outlined above. Why insist on campaigning until the convention and forcing a brokered convention and shattering our party???? Who is Hillary really working for???? Is she so blinded by a lust for power that she will destroy our party if she does not get what she wants? Hillary supporters, do you want to be a part of this???

[MyNameGoesHere]

1. Can someone from the Obama campaign please come to the courtesy counter,

we have your child here and he seems lost.

[Citizen Kang]

3. Can't make a valid counter-argument...

so just throw insults instead. For the record, I was an Edwards supporter until he dropped out before my primary. Its clear Obama has an insurmountable lead. Lets get over the delusions and focus on winning the General Election.

[MyNameGoesHere]

8. lets not and wait until all the votes are counted? Whadda say a little democracy for a change?

[JackORoses]

you don't have to wait for every state to vote before it becomes evident who the winner is

This is the way it always is.

Kerry and Gore were declared the nominees long before every vote was counted.

At this point, Hillary cannot win this nomination fairly.
Whadda ya say, a little honesty for a change?

[MyNameGoesHere]

24. I am not willing to speak for those who have not voted.

If you are that is your business.

[Citizen Kang]

26. Sure we can wait

Will you still say "let wait to count all the votes" when Hillary needs to win by 50% of the vote to catch Obama? Because in about 2 weeks, thats what its gonna be. When is enough, enough?

[MyNameGoesHere]

35. I will wait until it is decided by

votes and the convention if necessary. I still believe in America is that idea gone now that Obama is running?

[DemVet]

33. Actually, she doesn't need enough delegates...

...all Hillary has to do is KEEP Obama from getting ENOUGH delegates. Then there will be fireworks on the floor of the convention.

[krkaufman]

52. ... and corks popping at John McCain's victory party in November. n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. ROFLMAO!!!!!

:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. her way or no way.

besides, she's Special. She's ENTITLED. Bill Owes her for all bimbo eruptions. America Owes her for not accepting her ridiculous secrecy-filled, unworkable, insulting and self-defeating approach to health care. We Owe because she is who she is.

Once you realize that she is right, we are wrong, and she MUST BE PRESIDENT, it all makes sense.

[nels25]

13. You know what is a real shame

is that I know many who voted for Barack in Wisconsin who feel the way you posted.

They tell me it will be very hard for them to support Hillary, especially now that they perceive the campaign to have gotten dirty (IE Hillary's phone ad).

Some say they will stay home, and others state they will take a good, hard look at McCain.

Hey don't flame the messenger, just stating what I have heard.

:eyes:

[saracat]

4. Because I fear Obama more than a convention fight? Because maybe

a great candidate could come out of the convention? That being said there is just as good a possibility thst she will win Turesday as will Obama. Why are some so quick to want to end Democracy? If depriving people of the vote, no matter what the circumstances is required, to win an election,I don't support it.Winning is just not that important.

[Capn Sunshine]

7. A great candidate who motivates the youth and non voters to come out?

creating HUGE TURNOUT NUMBERS? RECORD TURNOUT NUMBERS?

What more could you want? Someone who will lose a close election in the courts?

I just don't understand this.

[jlake]

12. How come Hillary now polls better against McCain than Obama.

Hillary will win & Obama will lose in the GE.

[not_too_L8]

14. which polls?

NewsMax

snip/
Barack Obama would fare better than his Democratic presidential rival Hillary Clinton in a head-to-head matchup with Republican John McCain if the general election were held today, according to a new Time magazine poll.

Obama outpolled McCain by a margin of 48 percent to 41 percent in the survey of nearly 1,000 likely voters. But Clinton and McCain deadlocked at 46 percent.

The reason, according to Mark Schulman, CEO of Abt SRBI — which conducted the poll for Time — is that independents tilt toward McCain when he is matched up against Clinton. But they tilt toward Obama when McCain is matched up against the Illinois Senator.

[jlake]

15. Are you seriously citing Newsmax?

These polls:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics...

[not_too_L8]

27. The poll was conducted by Abt SRBI for Time...n/t

[jlake]

46. You already showed your hand.

[damonm]

47. Still at that canard, eh?

The FACTS:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

And they disagree with you.

[saracat]

16. I started to write out my list of reasons again and realize you wouldn't care!

Yes. as the lady watching CNN in the Dry Cleaners said to me. "He scares the crap out of me" I do not trust him, his motivations, or the company he keeps.

[Capn Sunshine]

28. I'll let your distrust of me pass

But as a Democrat, why deny the phenomena? I thought this is about winning the General.
I suspect many here distrust sincerity since they've been screwn so many times in the recent past.
A variation on the abused person syndrome. "Way too nice, I can't deal with this. Where's the half truths and liasons with people I hate?"

Specious bullshit polls aside from the same poster, Obama polls very well vs MCain. All in Landslide territory. (anything over +8 generally can create a landslide)

Now BACK TO THE PHONES!

[Independent-Voter]

32. I mean this in the nicest way, but Democrats have put up horrible candidates for the GE for several

election cycles. Ya'll are nuts to want to put up HRC, but history has shown Dems to be masters of picking the biggest insider douchebag, get their asses handed to them, them wonder what happened.

The GOP is handing you the election. Put up Obama and he'll easily get 290 EC votes. See, isn't that simple?

[Tarc]

21. Heh, "motivates the youth"

Hopefully there won't be an iPod sale on election day.

[Independent-Voter]

43. You ought to hope "Murder She Wrote" isn't on.

Snub the youth vote - great idea!

[high density]

5. She's working for herself

Party be damned if we don't want her.

[saracat]

18. And Barack isn't ? Oh yeah, he really cares about each and everyone of you.

[LSparkle]

23. He's not the one running nasty negative ads ... seems he cares more

about the unity of our party at this point than she does. All she cares about is rehabilitating the Clinton legacy that her reckless husband wasted.

[paulk]

6. as far as the super delegates go -

I would counter that exit polling has shown registered Deomcrats as being pretty evenly split, with some even showing Hillary having an advantage in that area. Obama has a lead in the popular vote because of Independents and Republicans. I would argue that if the super delegates are representing Democrats - they could rightfully vote for the candidate that Democrats are supporting - which could very well be Hillary.

I would also argue that this notion of "destroying the party" is overblown. With average turnout for caucuses being only 6% and primaries being under 30%, most of the party hasn't even bothered to make a choice in this matter - but, instead will go along with whoever is chosen at the convention.

[Nederland]

31. Most Super Delegates don't represent Democrats

Most are elected officials who represent all the people in their voting district.

[paulk]

49. they are elected Democratic Party officials

Their allegiance in party matters is to the party, not their constituents. Choosing a candidate is a party matter.

IMO

[MethuenProgressive]

9. Welcome to DU. So, you hate Hillary?

21.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. Only 30%? I though it was up to 120% already.

What Hath Chris Todd Wrought?

--p!

[lapfog_1]

11. Actually, I'd love to see the analysis

not based on poll numbers, but as a spread sheet, where I can insert winning/losing percentages state by state (or even better, district by district)... I'm sure the campaigns have such spreadsheets and internal polling numbers to drive the spreadsheets, but I'd love to download one to play with myself.

Otherwise, you see these statements like "Hillary has to win every race from here on out by X percent just to tie Obama" etc. But I have no way to know if that is true. Certainly not saying it isn't (hell, I'm one of ones here repeating these stories), but I'd love to play with the raw data and a computer model just to reassure myself that what I'm saying is true.

[Windy]

17. Watch video of Hillary speaking to Code Pink the night before the Iraq invasion.

If you can still vote for her, then kindly explain it to me!!!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/2/192832/8354/283/467547

She starts speaking at 6 minutes 3 seconds

[BlackVelvet04]

19. How about a dose of

Kiss my Ass?

[SoonerPride]

30. Don't fear change.

Embrace it.

Join us.

[LostinVA]

36. If you're not being sarcastic, that's just plain creepy

[NJmaverick]

20. Thanks for the Reality Check

It's something that was badly needed.

[bluestateguy]

22. She COULD still win this nomination

But she'd have to tear the party apart to do it, at which point the nomination would be worthless because so many Obama voters would be angered to a point that they would stay home.

Of course, if she wins fair and square I will support her and campaign for her (Lord knows she will need the help).

[cascadiance]

25. To keep battling in a close race, one has to show that there's a mission and a reason to stay in!

Up until this point, Hillary's been campaigning as "the inevitable", "the most experienced", and others that imply you should vote for her because everyone else will, and that you should vote for her because she's the "better person".

Unlike Edwards, who was campaigning on issues such as taking on corporate power and poverty, which weren't being talked about much about other candidates, there is no real solid ISSUE that she can campaign on and say that if she's not the candidate then the Democrats will lose something if they go with Obama instead. It's pretty much too late for Hillary to switch gears and take on Edwards' stances now though.

Just about every issue Obama's as much or more progressive than she is. Not to say he couldn't do more, but I'm not seeing a huge issue that she can say she would make a big difference with.

About the only issue that I can see where she comes close on that is gay rights, and even then I don't think Obama is set against tryng to help gays either.

She's campaigning that the reason we should vote for her is because "she should be in charge". Well, if she were ahead, and had the strong following like Obama does with young people, then I might see some value in her logic, but she's not got any one demographic that strongly over him (or over the Republicans better than him).

Hillary, unless you can come out with an issue that "will get lost unless you win", then you should gracefully withdraw, acknowledging that someone else is the people's choice to carry forth with a Democratic agenda that she doesn't seem to have a problem with. If you had a heavy issue where you thought Obama was out of touch with the Democratic base (and American people) on where you have a better solution, then stay in and fight until the end. But I just don't see that issue. The only issue I see is that you are concerned about losing for your own vanity. That isn't good enough for the rest of us. The rest of us want unity behind one candidate that represents us. You're not making the case why you should be that person. I would even like Edwards to have still been in the campaign at this point were he choosing to do so, even if he were out of it from a delegate standpoint, to champion the issues he's been. If he didn't have those issues, then I think he got out at the right time for the same reasons.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

29. She is doing nothing but tearing the party apart right now

with the visceral attacks. The amount of vitriol her campaign employs is straight out of the GOP playbook.

[midora]

34. Hillary Is Out for Hillary

She doesn't care if her vitriol and vicious attacks divide the party or not. If she doesn't bow out, and continues fighting until the convention, there's no telling what will happen. I will not vote in the general election if she is the nominee.

[LostinVA]

37. Thanks for joining DU JUST to post this

I like new blood that cares about DU as a community, and becoming part of that community.

:eyes:

[midora]

44. New Blood

I am to please, Lostin. Look, when I lived in Arkansas, HRC was my First Lady for 10 years or so. So I know she's no Pollyanna. I can't believe that more people don't see through her. I agree with her on a lot of issues, though;she'd be OK without all the sniping and attacking.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

41. I WILL vote for her in the GE vs. John McCain.

But, with each crap-filled attack she slings, I lose respect for her.

[rodeodance]

39. BO is divisive and has racialized this primary

[HCE SuiGeneris]

42. Seriously, I have seen more divisive comments

from her supporters. Too bad there isn't a higher level of dialog here that focuses on positive traits, as opposed to negative ones.

[midora]

45. Obama Is not Racial and Divisive

Bill Clinton is the one who played the race card by comparing Obama's primary wins to Jesse Jackson's. I was very disappointed in Mr. Clinton for saying that. I have always supported him. HRC made some borderline racist comments like saying Obama won in Lousiana because they have an active black community there, and blah, blah, blah, isn't that great.

[mudesi]

38. They are DELUSIONAL, or they are hoping for a SCANDAL

Either way, the Clinton supporters are making me sick.

[GeorgeGist]

48. Fear mongering

chicken shit.

[Raejeanowl]

50. Gee, I Wonder Why Those Options Might Be In Place? n/t

[krkaufman]

51. (d) All of the above.

The recent surge in smears against Obama is not just targeted at Tuesday's primary voters. The Clinton campaign wants to sully Obama's reputation to the point that the superdelegates feel it necessary to override Obama's pledged delegate plurality.

Here's to hoping voters hand negative campaigning another resounding ass-kicking, just as Wisconsin did 2 weeks ago.