I'm trying. I really am trying. But I **just** cannot warm up to Obama

[Stinky The Clown]

I've never had a candidate in this primary season. Clinton was not even near the top of my list. Neither was Obama. A few weeks ago, however, I said that I think Obama will be our guy and I'll probably be working for him in one way or another.

But try as I might I simply cannot come to like him. I actually find him annoying. Yeah, I know ..... those are the memes his detractors keep putting out there ......... but to me ..... they're reality.

Professorial (it comes off to me as arrogance)

Inspiring (it comes off to me as a bad imitation of a black preacher)

Intelligent (it comes off to me as naive and without substance)

I actually think he's as qualified to be president as anyone. I also think he has the makings of a good one. Maybe even a great one.

But I seem to be unable to like him.

[Kaylee]

1. Don't worry about it.....no one is liked by everyone.

[rug]

2. He's likeable enough.

[sueragingroz]

25. :)

[JerseygirlCT]

45. LOL. Ok, I'm an Obama supporter, but you get funny points on that one. nt

[JKaiser]

3. maybe Obama is a bad fit for you.. I agree I cannot like him either..

I think because of most of the Obama supporters on here..

[saracat]

4. I don't either but Idon't trust him either. his walking out of his own press conference and refusing

to answer questions by accusing a reporter of a "personal motivation" for asking did nothing to dispel that mistrust either.

[JKaiser]

6. I don't see how he can bring people together when he has communication issues

like that.. I don't trust him..

[liberalnurse]

10. That was funny!

He can't handle the pressure. I think of Obama as a High Jumper where Hillary, she is a Marathon Runner.

[JTFrog]

118. Something I would have loved to see Clinton do when asked about Obama's religion.

Instead of that purposely lame bullshit answer she gave to play along. Even the reporter was shocked as Clinton ran away with the ball into the wrong end zone.

At some point our candidates are going to have to stand up to the media or we will just continue letting them make all the calls for us. I'm getting kind of sick of that myself. Some folks are just getting frustrated and pissed off that there is no "there" there and they are desperate to drum up any kind of suspicion or negativity for their own personal reason or gain. It's time for the media to go back to reporting events of the day instead of trying to shape public opinion.

[liberalnurse]

5. Thant's okay, you won't have to do that.

The Rezko Trail is making the news, Obama is getting his due with the Canadian NAFTA Memo! Now he has had to admit there was a meeting...but we never said that....(yea, right). Larry King is even all over this now! They even had a big argument/fight as they do in Canadian Parliament today! They all got the memo!

Ari Fleisher just called obama a blank slate....

Good Press for Obama.

[nonconformist]

7. There are a lot of people who feel that way.

I've heard that from more people than I can count. He turns off a LOT of people. I hear many say they can't even put their finger on it, they want to like him, but they find him condescending/passive-aggressive/annoying/disingenuous/etc.

After Edwards dropped, I thought my support would go to Obama, because I really wanted to like him and had a positive opinion of him at the time. I'm actually quite surprised that after lots of research and soul searching, I ended up backing Clinton.

[Auntie Bush]

41. Now there's someone who's voting due to there intelligence

rather on their emotions. Good for you!

[Greyskye]

108. Where intelligence?

:shrug:

[leftynyc]

119. My mom also

A diehard Dem her entire life - has never voted pub for ANYTHING and says there is no way she'll support Sen. Obama. I admit to being very stunned by this and my dad, sis and I are hoping to turn her around.

[hamsterjill]

125. Me, too!! Me, too!!!!

Make no mistake, if Obama gets the nod, I will be backing him in November, but I agree that there is just something about him.

One of my best friends is very much INSPIRED by this man and I've tried my best to listen to her arguments and see what it is that she sees. But I simply don't.

There is ONE thing that really bugs me about him (and before I get flamed for being petty - let me say it just one more time, - I will support him if he's the nominee). But when he speaks, he tends to drop the last word in every sentence. I think his habit must remind me of someone in my past (maybe a bad Sunday school teacher or someone) because I find myself irritated by it.

I find that I have to really force myself to get past that irritation and listen to what he has to say.

[eileen_d]

8. Maybe you don't need your president to be your buddy.

That may come off sounding condescending, and I apologize in advance if it does. But maybe you and he just don't click personality-wise, and he will just be the guy that you're supporting for president for practical reasons.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. That's fine with me. I don't need a new buddy.

I plan to vote for him and even work for him.

I just don't like him.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. You don't have to like him; just vote for him.

I can't remember a President I actually liked since Kennedy (and I was just a kid then). They have all been a at least a little annoying, some of them downright odious. Nixon was dreadful; Ford was a doofus; Carter was a nice man who was annoyingly feckless; Reagan was a mean old fuckwit masquerading unsuccessfully as a kindly grandpa; Bush I was a prime example of an upper-class twit; and even Bill Clinton was just a little too oily for me to really like. I didn't especially like Kerry, either, since he really was a stuffy wonk, though I respected him. And Bush II -- well, I hate him with the blinding intensity of a thousand suns.

I'm not sure I *like* Obama, either; but I'll probably never meet him, let alone have a beer with him. So I don't care much about liking him. I do think he has a better chance than Hillary of beating McCain, whom I really, really don't like. And that's all I need.

[sniffa]

11. Sorry

Vote for who you want to, even if it's not Huey Newton. :hug:

[dogman]

12. Hopefully McCain will help.

Given the choice, I am reminded of the McGovern-Nixon election and hope the Dems can keep it together this time. I experience a racist/sexist world and fear the prospects. I feel this is a media driven event and know their "If it bleeds, it leads" philosophy. I think they pray/prey for/on civil unrest.

[Lefty-Taylor]

13. Well, you don't have to like him. Frankly, many of us don't care if you do. I'm a former Edwards

supporter who sees a lot more to vote for in Obama than Clinton. But again, if you're "unable to like him" so be it. He'll be the Dem nominee whether you like him or not. Sorry.

[saracat]

18. Wow, "he will be the nominee whether you like it or not" ? Nice attitude.

That may not be the case and as a former/ current Edwards supporter myself, I think you have no class. We are "better than that".

[Lefty-Taylor]

36. I'm sorry. I'm just tired of the myopia some espouse in not "liking" a candidate because of skewed

perceptions. The OP questions Obama's intelligence and oratory skills. That's demeaning and shows a true lack of reality. He sure seems to have both according to a majority of voters thus far and signs point to a good day for him tomorrow. I also get tired of people not looking at the records of the two remaining candidates. One example: Clinton supported the war, Obama did not.

[saracat]

39. Obama has no record and his lack of support of the war cost him nothing .he had no more vote than

and ordinary citizen.He has done nothing to end the war since and has regularly voted to fund it but whatever. he is no better than any other politician and he is certainly no "anti war hero". Edwards who did vote for the war is more of an anti war proponent than Barak. At least he voted against funding it and admitted his vote had been wrong. Whatt constructive thing has barack done against the war?

[Lefty-Taylor]

42. You don't think that his strong opposition to the war couldn't have cost him what he wanted: A seat

in the US Senate? Of course his stance had relevance and posed political risks. At least Edwards admitted his mistake in voting for IWR. Clinton has not. And she voted for the Kyle-Leiberman Iran amendment. Saracat, you and I have agreed before. I'm not sure why you don't understand why the OP's post was offensive -- calling Obama's speaking skills that of a "bad imitation of a black preacher" ?????????? Come on!

[saracat]

54. Actually, I have called him a poor imitation of Jesse Jackson. " I may be in the minority but

I have taught speech and acting and I don't think Barack is that good a speaker. He does mostly cadenced repetition and raises his volume. There isn't real emotion or inflection.I have said so in the past.Sorry.I cannot relate to his oratory but others say they can,good for them.For the record, I think Jesse is a great orator! And I think John Edwards was the best speaker we had in the race but thats JMHO.

[saracat]

57. And stong opposition? One speech and he had no opposition in his senate race.The GOP flew freaking

Alan Keyes in from maryland. It was the equivelne of running against a small soap dish!

[Lefty-Taylor]

The sentiment of the day and the super-patriotic mainstream press classifed any who denounced

the war as essentially America-haters in the fall of 2002 when Obama spoke up. That's why so few politicians stepped up and spoke against the war. For that alone, Obama took a risk of being vilified and, consequently, marginalized. He has continually spoken out against the war in this campaign. Clinton has not been consistent at all about this.

As for your speech and acting instruction that you mention, I can relate. I've done both as well and am currently a college professor who teaches students writing and presentation skills (I hesitate going into this but you mentioned it first). Obama may not have MLK- or Jesse Jackson-type abilities but he's sure better than any other candidate still in the race. He certainly hits a lot of the right notes and connects with people on both an intellectual and visceral level (and I'm skeptical of style over substance; just stating what seems to be true).

[saracat]

80. He was a state senator when he spoke up.no one cares what they say. I spoke up too. No one cared

what I said either.I never said he was a "poor speaker" , he just isn't that wonderful. I had a friend refer to him as "the greatest orator who had ever lived".She went on to say this was universally acknowledged. Sorry. I just don't "get it". Others do but I believe a lot of it is hype. Sometimes if something is said often enough people believe it.

[Lefty-Taylor]

85. Well, I agree that your friend's hyperbole about Obama being the best orator ever is over the top.

I don't agree that, in the strange land of the USA in 2002, a state senator who seeks US Senate would not be risking vitriol and political alienation by speaking out against the war. Obama showed conviction over political gain and like you and me, he was right. And he did it more than in one just speech.

[saracat]

98. Perhaps but only one got noticed and i do not believe he risked anything.

Alan Keyes was his opponent. Obama would have won no matter what he said. Ryan dropped out under really nasty circumstances.Effectually Barack won by process of elimination.I don't believe Barack showed any particular conviction over gain but JMHO.

[Lefty-Taylor]

103. I'm aware of the dynamics of the Illinois Senate race. But thanks anyway. The point is simple: Obama

objected to IWR. Clinton did not. He couldn't help it that he wasn't in the US Senate at that time. He could have just as easily not spoken up at all and avoid any possible bad press. Again, he did speak out. Clinton caved. He's advocating -- albeit not as soon as I would have liked -- a quicker withdrawal of our troops than HRC. I hope he chooses Edwards as a running mate or as the attorney general should he win -- perhaps we can agree on that.

[Stinky The Clown]

69. You got something to say, say it to me

Or shut the fuck up, you blinded partisan.

[Lefty-Taylor]

73. Whoa. I assumed I was saying it to you, about you and for you. Perhaps

you need anger management counseling. Please try to read what I've been saying about why your original post was so offensive. Read it all and then respond, please.

[Stinky The Clown]

75. Only when you reread my OP and get it for what it is .... PERSONAL OPINION

Are we no longer entitled to that?

I don't like your haircut, either. Does that disqualify me from speaking about you?

[Lefty-Taylor]

83. Now I'm chuckling. Yes, of course, you're entitled to your opinion and I can

object to what you say, which I did. Try to relax a bit and realize than when you stick your neck out and express your opinion others may agree or disagree and say, as I did, that we don't care about your not "liking" a candidate because he sounds like, as you said: "a bad imitation of a black preacher." Or call his intelligence "naive."

[Stinky The Clown]

86. Do me a favor .....

... go lecture someone else. Maybe someone who gives a shit.

[Lefty-Taylor]

93. Clever. I'm thinking you do "give a shit" or you wouldn't be responding to my retorts. Just a hunch.

[Stinky The Clown]

68. Hey! ..... take a breath ............. reread ........... and try to comprehend ......

I aver nothing factual about YOUR candidate (which is why you have the comprehension problem). What I state is what ***I*** feel. Whether you like it or not.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. You don't comprehend very well what you read, do you?

[LostinVA]

27. Why the uneeded snottiness towards the OP???

I don't always agree with them, but they are a well-known, sincere DUer (and a bc lover, which covers alot of stuff), and nothing was said in their OP to warrant your response. So -- why?

[Lefty-Taylor]

37. Scroll up and read, please. And please consider the OP's faulty demeaning characterizations.

[LostinVA]

43. Unliike many,I did, and also unlike many,I am familiar with this poster and their history

They deserve an apology from you and others in this thread.

[Lefty-Taylor]

67. An apology? Why? The poster (singular, not "they") insulted Barack Obama in demeaning terms. No

apology is warranted.

[Stinky The Clown]

70. Fuck You

Did that get your attention?

You got something to say, say it to me.

[Lefty-Taylor]

74. That's articulate and really adds to the discussion. Thanks.

[Stinky The Clown]

79. Can the passive agressive crap and get on with it

You're a blind partisan ready to attack anyone who says one word you don't like.

Peddle it elsewhere.

[Lefty-Taylor]

84. Call it passive-aggressive if you like. Or, more accurately, call it calm reason.

Can you say the same?

[Stinky The Clown]

87. Yeah .... my logic is perfect

My issue is I don't suffer fools or blind partisans gladly.

You seem to be both.

[Lefty-Taylor]

92. Well, given that I wanted to vote for Edwards, I don't consider myself a "blind partisan."

But if that's the easy way to for you to try to regain your bearings, which you obviously lost when you lowered this discourse to four-letter proclamations, so be it. Shall I respond in kind? OK. Hey husb2Sparkly, go perform anatomically impossible feats on yourself. There. I showed you.

By the way, your "perfect logic" has convinced me: I now don't like Obama's "arrogant" professorial tone or his "black preacher" oration or his "naive" intelligence. You are so right! Good night.

[Stinky The Clown]

120. You know, I really don't give a fuck what you like or don't like.

And having had an exchange with you, I care even less.

I don't like much about your guy. Deal with it.

I know, you'll come back with some passive-aggressive/tsk tsk/sucks to be you ..... whatever .......... you proved nothing and I still don't like your guy. And since the point of this OP was never to do anything but state an opinion, I can't lose. You, on the other hand, have shown the colors of a blind cultist.

Now come back with your meaningless little retort and feel good about yourself.

[Lefty-Taylor]

122. I think you're jealous -- not too mention unimaginative.

[Stinky The Clown]

127. .

:spray:

[PretzelWarrior]

14. it must be sad to be you

even with Hillary's obnoxious and sometimes boring tone, I've had moments where I could warm up to her.

I'm not sure if your complete inability to like him says more about him or you.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Oh stop it

I'll bet there are people you don't like, too.

[Birthmark]

I'm with ya.

I do think he's intelligent, though. But that doesn't mean he isn't naive and without substance.

[OhioChick]

15. I Know How You Feel....

I just cannot warm up to HRC.

[Olney Blue]

16. I don't know what to say- maybe its living around here that tends to make

one suspicious of "hope."

[moobu2]

19. His race baiting tactics killed any chance I could ever support him

He disgusts me.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. I can't say he disgusts me

I can't fault you for saying that, either.

I just find him difficult to like.

[XtraProudDem]

23. Bullshit.

You're not trying.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. Oh? Its bullshit? I don't know what I'm thinking, but you do and see the need to call bullshit?

Who the fuck are you? And when did you get inside my head?

Speaking of heads ... get yours out of your ass.

[Lyric]

35. ...

:thumbsup:

[MoonRiver]

31. Now I think I have heard it all.

Gotta try REAL HARD to like the messiah, doncha know! And if you just can't like him, then you must be a BAD PERSON. UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE.

[LostinVA]

32. Why the HELL do you think you have a right to talk to the OP like that?

I may not always agree with them, but I respect them. I KNOW them. Who the hell are you to be so rude to them?

I am REALLY disgusted at the rudeness on this -- and other threads -- towards longtime DUers who ahve done NOTHING to warrant such rudeness. This is beyond being a candidate issue.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

95. In fairness, his first 27 posts were nicer

[CyberPieHole]

111. LOL...the "Audacity of HOPE" in full bloom.

Gotta love the irony.:evilgrin:

[OhioBlue]

24. I don't like Hillary

Listening to her is almost as painful as listening to the Shrub. She's been horrible lately. I don't think she is a good person.

So, I guess I know how you feel.

[cooolandrew]

28. Maybe you will like his top advisor Samantha Power, link..

www.members.aol.com/cooolandrew2/outstanding.mp3

[cooolandrew]

33. You may even like his advisor Susan Rice, link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyn35HL0eng

[Stinky The Clown]

52. I think Susan Rice is the best candidate spokesperson out there, bar none.

She'd **better** be in the Obama administration.

[Dark]

29. No offense, but you're in Maryland. You had your say.

And now Ohio and Texas will have theirs, and we'll be in a lot better condition to debate tomorrow night.

For now, no one knows who the candidate will be.

[Stinky The Clown]

55. What does your post have to do with the OP?

It seems to me waaaaay off topic. What does my being in one state or another have to do with how I might or should feel about a given candidate? :shrug:

(I'll be you don't reply to this.)

[Dark]

66. I'll reply to this.

Now, it's not off topic because, after tomorrow, we'll know a lot better about the situation the Dems are facing. We'll know whether Hillary makes a comeback, or whether Obama locks up the nomination. That will change the discourse drastically.

Secondly, you admit he'd be a great president. So why don't you like him? He's able to bring independents, and even conservatives, in.

We need a coalition to win. Period. Hatred of president shit for brains won't guarantee that this election any more than it did last election.

on edit: misread the op. sorry.

[Stinky The Clown]

71. "on edit: misread the op. sorry."

Not a problem ..... :hi:

(For the record, the OP was purely personal. It has nothing to do with tomorrow or strategy or coalitions or anything. It is what I .... me ..... myself alone ...... thinks about Obama. It also says I'll vote for him and I think he's make at the very least a good president.)

[Dark]

78. Yea, a few beam and cokes'll do that to ya.

;-)

Or rather

:crazy:

I personally would be fine with either one as president. They're both great people.

[peacetheonlyway]

30. Losing trust here too... and I'm an Obama delegate

I see 3 disturbing things this week
#1 religious rhetoric means he's lowering himself to the republican wedge issue level, we do live in separation of church and state and his proper response to the preacher about gay marriage should have been "I support civil unions, full marriage equality for all and complete and total separate of church and state" period.. instead he said he's NOT for gay marriage.. blah.. that sux...

#2 He's personal friends with Chuck hagel. Are you fucking kidding me? Hagel bought his election by owning a company that owns ES&S and rigging his own South Dakota election. Sure he's been ratching up the antibush rhetoric but that's just power lust.. he's as much a part of the neocon crowd as anyone.. He's be bush #2 with a brain if he were in charge and Obama should surely see a wolf in sheep's clothing

#3 He's totally not taking the offensive on hillary and RW talking points on muslim. he's got to hit back and hit hard... and avoid repeating the muslim meme... it's better for him to say "This is wedge issue, this is patently untrue" than to say he prays to jesus further enraging those of us that give a shit about our presiden'ts religion.

either way, the convention is going to be interesting.. I know some obama folks considering a switch to hillary..

I don't think it will be over by denver, much to the dismay of the democratic party..

when the 2 are so thoroughly done beating each other up, there will be enough voters left to mccain that this torture loving asshole just might win.

I can't stand the democratic party's inability to manage their own.

howard dean, shame on you dude....

[saltpoint]

34. In a better world, Mario Cuomo and Bill Moyers would be a dash younger

and would comprise our ticket.

Ask me if I'd be looking forward to State of the Union addresses with those two in charge.

[Stinky The Clown]

60. Be still my weary heart!

Cuomo would get me ALL fired up!

[saltpoint]

64. I hear ya and I hear you loud and deep. He's the guy I'd lay down in traffic for.

[ProgressIn2008]

112. You got me at Bill Moyers... now there's something to believe in!

[saltpoint]

116. Hi, ProgressIn2008. Yep. Moyers is the cat's pajamas.

I'd listen to him on any topic he wanted to talk about.

[DawgHouse]

38. My coworkers eight year old daughter thinks it's funny

that his slogan is the same as Bob the Builder. "Yes We Can!"

I'm having difficulty warming up to him too but I will vote Dem, whoever wins the nom.

[seabeyond]

40. not my choice either. but i like him over mccain. so is simple to me. n/t

[Flabbergasted]

46. That's about it. I haven't really warmed to him either.

[1620rock]

56. Sigh, I know what you mean...I am trying so hard to warm up to him.

...he just seems, well "oily."

[DemGa]

44. Two years in the Senate qualifies no one to be President

Obama -- Just a silly sham from start to finish.

[saltpoint]

47. 1 term in the House did it for Lincoln.

How silly was he?

[saracat]

72. Barack is no Lincoln.

[saltpoint]

94. Lincoln was no Lincoln either, saracat. The Lincoln of our textbooks

didn't show up until AFTER he was elected.

I think you know that.

[saracat]

99. Actually if you read the Lincoln /Douglas Debates the evidence was there.

and no such evidence exists with obama. Sorry to disagree but there you have it.

[saltpoint]

102. Your bias against the man is a rash of skin boils.

I've read and taught the Lincoln Douglas debates. And keep them quite close, in fact.

They're instructive.

Obama, like Lincoln, is an attorney. Like Lincoln, he is broadly educated with very significant depth and scope.

He edited the HARVARD LAW REVIEW. Not very many marginal men and women edit that publication.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/01/28/at_harvard_law_a_unifying_voice/

So you see, the "evidence" is there for Barack Obama, despite your boiling bias.

[saracat]

107. "Yawn" Don't be silly .The comparison is not apt but whatever.

[saltpoint]

109. O it's apt all right.

Real apt.

[saracat]

110. You may be right Both Obama and Lincoln appear to be Republican!

LOL! Seriously both my parents were editors of their law reviews and I wouldn't have voted for them either, and for the most part, I "liked " them but there ya go, I don't consider that a big whoop.

[saltpoint]

115. Very stingy of you. When someone gets into that position, it suggests

accomplishment.

You should be more generous in acknowledging demonstrable success.

You also seem confused about party affiliation. Give your high school History teacher a call and see if those two guys are in the same party or not.

You might be surprised.

[seabeyond]

49. and how many years in state senate. to say the mans total experience is 2 years is a sham

too

[Eric J in MN]

77. Obama will have 4 years in the US Senate...

...on January 20, 2009 (Inauguration Day for someone.)

[xchrom]

48. well -- i was undecided for long time -- i was even excited -- big time about all of

our candidates after the first couple of debates.

but after donnie -- i was turned off big time to barack -- and the continuing religious tone to his speeches -- blech.

[KaptBunnyPants]

50. The good thing is you don't have to like him.

You're not marrying the guy.

[JerseygirlCT]

51. Look, maybe that means you're just in a good position

to make a completely dispassionate decision. I find the tricky stuff - the way you feel about the candidate on a more gut level - to push me toward Obama. For me, the fact that he can move so many people and offers some hope of bringing people together after 7 years of hate and fear is a good thing. But he doesn't bug me, either, so that helps. Clinton does - but it won't stop me from supporting her if she's our nominee.

And for me, there will always be IWR. If she had apologized and admitted she'd blown it, I could forgive and move on (except when she goes for Kyl-Lieberman! Has she learned NOTIHNG?) but her stubborn refusal to just say it bugs me. I see a willingness to cave for personal political gain in that, and it's not attractive.

So just look at the facts. Look at positions. Look at history. And just make a cerebral judgement, since you're not getting that gut thing with either.

[Lefty-Taylor]

105. Wow. That's exactly what I've said on so many occasions. Bravo, JerseygirlCT. Great thinking.

[Horse with no Name]

53. I tried to like him too

I've never been a Hillary fan and somehow I feel like I have had to make an unholy alliance because of my intense dislike for him.
He reminds me of a literate bush.

[LWolf]

58. I can relate. n/t

[jlpohio69]

59. I know what you mean...

I just can't warm up to this guy, something about him does not sit well with me. I can't put my finger on it, but I have an uneasy feeling about him.

[stillcool]

61. I used to 'like' Hillary...

I actually respected her. But that was before all this:

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."

"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.

Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET

The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------

Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused. I made unfortunate comments that do not accurately reflect my bipartisan conviction, political philosophy, or most importantly, my opinions about Senator Obama and his historic campaign for the United States presidency."

and the saddest thing I've ever seen...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[ruggerson]

62. I'm right there with you

[dailykoff]

63. Have you watched the last couple of debates?

The guy is a charm tsunami.

[Skittles]

65. I am with you

I find him merely adequate - just like I find Hillary

[Eric J in MN]

76. You're choosing a representative, not a friend.

It's fine not to like any of the presidential candidates.

[LadyVT]

81. He leaves me feeling empty and cold.

[ProgressIn2008]

113. Yep, me too -- cold, turned off. Really don't like him and moreover don't trust him.

Neither candidate does it for me, but he in particular leaves me with that cold nothing.

[Gloria]

82. Your gut is telling you something....he's a phony and deep inside,

you know it. Just be kind to yourself and admit it. You'll feel much better!! I speak from experience!

[NorthernSpy]

132. ...and if our guts tell us all that and worse about Clinton?

Are you going to switch gears and tell us not to base our political judgement on a "feeling"?


:eyes:

[ellisonz]

88. You sound anti-intellectual.

Get over it. No candidate is perfect.

[printpolitico]

124. likely supporter

You're rude. Don't make assumptions about this individuals intelligence. It does far more to spotlight yourself as arrogant than it does to make someone else look less intelligent.
No wonder you are an Obama supporter.

[ellisonz]

130. I don't make an assumption about his intelligence.

I made an assumption about his attitude toward intellectuals, which is what Obama really is (Mr. UChicago law professor).

1. Professorial - Check
2. Inspiring - Check
3. Intelligent - Check

So how is my post not a fair assessment of the OPs argument?

[jillan]

89. I tried too. In fact he was my first choice. And then after Biden dropped out,

I planned on supporting him, that didn't work out too well.

But I will vote for him in November IF he is our nominee.

[Hawkeye-X]

90. Heck I hated GWB, and look where it got to him...

And you can have a beer and trout-fish with him, Stinky!

And Obama looks like someone I could share a joint with and he's got my vote.

[Zookeeper]

91. I will support the nominee, although neither Obama or Clinton...

were my first, second or third choices, as I find them both too pleasing to the big corporations.

However, I am also having an increasingly difficult time liking Obama, whereas I like Clinton, but not her husband or his baggage.

I don't find Obama to be authentic, especially with the black preacher routine which doesn't actually reflect his background. And, as an atheist, who needs another president who flaunts his/her faith? I do see arrogance and smugness. Although, I can appreciate his ability to not rise to a baited question, generally his "coolness" is off-putting (to me). I don't believe he cares deeply enough to fight the Rethugs. IMHO, we don't need to compromise with the Rethugs, who have had their nasty and unethical way and been steamrolling us for the last 12 years. We need someone willing to fight them, turn the tables and get things done. Knowing the players and the system would help a lot with that.

Oh, and then there's that issue of "creating unity" while trying to divide us according to generations. Obama is, technically, a Baby Boomer whether he likes it or not.

Again, I will vote for Obama if he is the nominee, but it will be with some reservations.

[Asia Expat]

96. My feelings are very similar.

As hard as I try to like him, the more I dislike him.

[judaspriestess]

97. you are not alone

I don't like him at all. I am happy to see an African American doing so well in the campaign but that does not change my mind. I am just not sold on his bill of goods.

[idovoodoo]

100. Don't worry yourself about it too much. Jesus wasn't that popular the first time either.

And he didn't run for president either but look at the legacy! Lawdy , lawdy....i'se creamin ma jeans over de Obamaman!

:D :D
praise de lawd

[froggy0]

101. same here

[Kokonoe]

104. Have you seen him having a conversation.

Depending on where you live, some coverage will only show him shouting out of context. I think he is most likable when when he just has a random conversation.

[Apollo11]

117. Have you seen him shooting hoops?

Now that's what I'm talkin' bout! B-)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=daH0ltD20A0

[NastyRiffraff]

106. I don't like him either

Plus, I don't trust him. The word that comes to mind is "slick." I know that's heretical to some, but there it is.

Before someone starts screeching, yes, I will vote for him if he's the nominee.

[Catherina]

114. Don't worry about liking him. Think about Cluster Bombs.

I just posted this information in another thread so it's fresh on my clipboard.

I took a long time to warm up to Obama and I'm still not happy with him but as Americans who are having grave crimes committed in our name, it's inconscionable to tolerate certain things.

The young people supporting Obama are going to be cleaning up the mess we've left them for years to come. What kind of world do you want to leave them and people all over the world?

Obama will be a great President. Greater than any others before him I'm sure of it. Make your decision with logic but don't forget your heart for other people. There are more countries on the war list and we owe the world now.

You're not electing a drinking buddy here, that was Bush. After the hate and polarization our country has been through for the last decades, it's time to come together under a strong leader with the wisdom to lead this country in a collaborative clean-up effort and focus on our future because we all live in this country and we all live in this world.


I submit to you the 3 exhibits I had handy.

Kyl-Lieberman amendment on Iran

I cannot support the Kyl-Lieberman amendment on Iran. To do so could give this President a green light to act recklessly and endanger US national security. We learned in the run up to the Iraq war that seemingly nonbinding language passed by this Senate can have profound consequences. We need the president to use robust diplomacy to address concerns with Iran, not the language in this amendment that the president can point to if he decides to draw this country into another disastrous war of choice. We shouldn't repeat our mistakes and enable this President again. - Chris Dodd

Hillary voted FOR it.

Cluster bombs

.AMDT.4882

Amends: H.R.5631

Sponsor: Sen Feinstein, Dianne (submitted 9/5/2006) (proposed 9/5/2006)

AMENDMENT PURPOSE: To protect civilian lives from unexploded cluster munitions.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/R?r109:FLD001:S58975

But in the autumn of 2006, there was a chance to take a step in the right direction: Senate Amendment No. 4882, an amendment to a Pentagon appropriations bill that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

Senator Obama of Illinois voted IN FAVOR of the ban.

Senator Clinton of New York voted AGAINST the ban.

(snip)

of the two remaining Democratic candidates, one decided her vote on Amendment No. 4882 according to a political calculation. The other used a moral calculation.

On not one but two of her most important life-and-death votes in the Senate, Clinton embraced political expediency over the protection of innocent human lives.

(snip)

http://mediabloodhound.typepad.com/weblog/2008/02/hillary-vs-obam.html

Here is the exact text of the bill straight from Senate Amendment No. 4882:

Sec. 8109. No funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act my <sic> be obligated or expended to acquire, utilize, sell, or transfer any cluster munition unless the rules of engagement applicable to the cluster munition ensure that the cluster munition will not be used in or near any concentrated population of civilians, whether permanent or temporary, including inhabited parts of cities or villages, camps or columns of refugees or evacuees, or camps or groups of nomads.

Here's the roll call.

Cluster bombs in civilian areas is a war crime.

(snip)

Under Article 85 of the Geneva Conventions, it is a war crime to launch "an indiscriminate attack affecting the civilian population in the knowledge that such an attack will cause an excessive loss of life or injury to civilians." Under the Hague Conventions, Article 22 and 23, "The right of belligerents to adopt means of injuring the enemy is not unlimited," and "It is especially forbidden to kill treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army."

A cluster bomb is a 14-foot weapon that weighs about 1,000 pounds. When it explodes it sprays hundreds of smaller bomblets over an area the size of two or three football fields. The bomblets are bright yellow and look like beer cans. And because they look like playthings, thousands of children have been killed by dormant bomblets in Afghanistan, Kuwait and Iraq. Each bomblet sprays flying shards of metal that can tear through a quarter inch of steel.

The failure rate, the unexploded rate, is very high, often around 15 to 20 percent. When bomblets fail to detonate on the first round, they become land mines that explode on simple touch at any time.

(snip)

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0126-04.htm

Cluster bombing


Unexploded cluster bomb


A cluster bomb victim

Another cluster bomb victim

The US weapons industry

Clinton bucks the trend and rakes in cash from the US weapons industry

By Leonard Doyle in Washington
Friday, 19 October 2007


The US arms industry is backing Hillary Clinton for President and has all but abandoned its traditional allies in the Republican party. Mrs Clinton has also emerged as Wall Street's favourite. Investment bankers have opened their wallets in unprecedented numbers for the New York senator over the past three months and, in the process, dumped their earlier favourite, Barack Obama.

(snip)

Employees of the top five US arms manufacturers – Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop-Grumman, General Dynamics and Raytheon – gave Democratic presidential candidates $103,900, with only $86,800 going to the Republicans. "The contributions clearly suggest the arms industry has reached the conclusion that Democratic prospects for 2008 are very good indeed," said Thomas Edsall, an academic at Columbia University in New York.

(snip)

After her election to the Senate, she became the first New York senator on the armed services committee, where she revealed her hawkish tendencies by supporting the invasion of Iraq. Although she now favours a withdrawal of US troops, her position on Iran is among the most warlike of all the candidates – Democrat or Republican.

(snip)

Mrs Clinton has been a regular visitor to Iraq and Afghanistan and is careful to focus her criticisms of the Iraq war on President Bush, rather than the military. The arms industry has duly taken note.

So far, Mrs Clinton has received $52,600 in contributions from individual arms industry employees. That is more than half the sum given to all Democrats and 60 per cent of the total going to Republican candidates. Election fundraising laws ban individuals from donating more than $4,600 but contributions are often "bundled" to obtain influence over a candidate.

The arms industry has even deserted the biggest supporter of the Iraq war, Senator John McCain, who is also a member of the armed services committee and a decorated Vietnam War veteran. He has been only $19,200. Weapons-makers are equally unimpressed by the former New York mayor Rudolph Giuliani. Despite a campaign built largely around the need for an aggressive US military and a determination to stay the course in Iraq, he is behind Mrs Clinton in the affections of arms executives. Mr Giuliani may be suffering because of his strong association with the failed policies of President Bush and the fact he is he is known as a social liberal.

(snip)

Mr Edsall's analysis of the figures reveals that, over the past 10 years, the defence industry has favoured Republicans over Democrats by a 3-2 margin, making Mrs Clinton's position even more remarkable.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/clinton-bucks-the-trend-and-rakes-in-cash-from-the-us-weapons-industry-397281.html

[Stinky The Clown]

121. You've assumed I would prefer Clinton and present info to dissuade me.

I actually do not prefer Clinton.

[printpolitico]

123. anointed king

Seems as though many are starting to see the same arrogant, naive, inspirational evangelist type aura that you see. Hopefully enough people will question his sincerity and experience.
He stresses how he never voted for the war and he wouldn't have voted for this or that. 1st of all no one truly knows what they will do until they are in the position to do it.
I have heard so many women say that if their husband ever cheated they would leave him no questions asked, but when it actually happened circumstances changed as did their stance. We never know what we would have done only what we think we might do. That's not concrete and not having been faced with the same information and set of circumstances I dismiss his claims.
Besides he would have most likely followed his pattern of voting present or asking someone else to answer first so that he could draft off of their answers.

[npincus]

126. Different strokes, i guess. We are trading in a Chimp, after all...

if we can beat McCain.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

128. I don't like either of them. (Much too similar, IMO)

I'm voting for who I will think will defeat McCain: Obama.

More Republicans are switching to Obama than Clinton. There's less dirt and stigma attached to him than Clinton.

Also, my perspective is that Clinton is a tad more hawkish about the war than Obama, (at least he SEEMS to want to "bring people together"...) which speaks to my pacifism.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

129. i suggest you read "The Audacity of Hope"

I don't agree with him on every issue, but it's as clear as day that he's a deep thinker, well versed in the problems our country faces. I would imagine it's hard to dislike him after reading this book, even if you don't agree with him on everything. At the least you will come away respecting him.

[mojowork_n]

131. I was back and forth between Obama and Edwards, for the longest time.

But I have that kind of problem with Hillary, so I think I know what you're saying. For me, no matter how many times I agree, rationally, with what she's saying, I'm always thrown off the track when she starts talking herself up, telling voters why she's the right choice. It doesn't take any time at all before that starts sounding like a 'me, me, me, me, me' sort of whine, or drone. I think that I'm just hearing her say what she thinks people want to be told, but it all just sort of backfires, in my ears.

[amborin]

133. no problem, Clinton wins Ohio and wins the GE