Proof that Rove ain't all that smart

[eileen from OH]

So far Bush's campaign has been really, really lame. One misstep after another, from controversial offending ads, to joking about missing WMD's to stepping into it over the kid on Letterman to overreacting to Clarke to saying Condi-can't-testify and sending her out to every talk show on earth and then flip-flopping. The latest, and it seemed to take a few days for this one to kick in, is the testifying-but-only-with-Cheney thing. The latest is finally getting traction (thank you, Nancy Pelosi) and Bush is looking like a total tool.

No wonder they brought back Karen Hughes.

Rove was always the man-behind-the-curtain but it seems more and more that not only doesn't he have a heart or "the nerve" he also is absent a brain - Bush's or otherwise.

Does a body good.

eileen from OH

[coltman]

1. good to see...

a fellow buckeye with the same sentiments as our's.........all repukes suck.

[Union Thug]

2. These are signs of desperation from the bushies/ eom

[The empressof all]

3. Rove= very very small private parts

I've always thought he was an over rated bully myself. He clearly appears to me to be someone suffering from EPD Emaciated Prick Disease.

[countmyvote4real]

4. Side trip on Karen Hughes...

I have no doubt that Karen Hughes is a true * believer. Still, how convenient that she has a book to peddle as she re-enters the stage. I would never buy it and don’t give a hoot what she thinks. But it’s great excuse for the WH controlled media outlets to turn over airtime to her drivel. So, even if I don’t buy her book or anything she has to say, I’m still robbed and assaulted. Quick CLICK to Comedy Central. Oh no, she’s there, too.

I’m wondering if she’s planning to donate any of the profits from her book to a charity. And I don’t mean the * campaign to be finally elected in the second term fund.

The point of this side trip is that Rove is a hypocrite. It’s just gets worse in their mania to stop a sinking ship.

[Zinfandel]

5. Don't sell the slimy Rove short...he'll make his mistakes but is a

ruthless lying fuck who owns the republican corporate media..proof being, just watch the Letterman video...Rove had CNN immediately tied in knots...and in the end, as always, CNN took full blame...what the fuck is that all about? They dictated what will be said and aired...again, thank someone for Air America at least there's something he can't touch (But old Clear Channel is involved hedging their bets)...great humor, truth, and a voice...cheers to AAR...

Rove is there to take away our freedoms...what right do we have for freedom?

[LonghornJack]

6. Good Point on Rove

I agree with you on this one. If Rove is the "genius" behind the "boy", then why is the WH on the defensive 99% of the time? Some genius. I have some other colorful descriptives for Rove, but I really should watch my language on this forum.

Getting rid of Rove is one huge reason that I'm looking forward to the Shrub and Cheney going down in November.

Go Kerry!
Let's save America!

[newyawker99]

7. Hi LonghornJack!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mobuto]

8. Rove is thoroughly overrated

He's a medium-talent political hack. We're always warned not to underestimate our opponents, well we overestimate them. The Bush people, none of them, are all that smart. They have money, and they've got faux-populist rhetoric, but beyond that, they're a paper tiger.

[progressiverealist]

9. I don't buy it.

Rove is the best in the business. He makes mistakes because he takes risks and he's a hateful sonofabitch. As a result, he makes a few bad decisions here and there out of spite. Nonetheless, he *DID* get chimpy into office and has recently organized a powerful surge that has seen Bush blow by Kerry in the polls in only a few weeks' time.

Rove knows how to cheat and does not hesitate to do so. He knows how to destroy the careers of his enemies and does so with glee. He knows how to sell sand in the desert- this is the man who is responsible for the rise of Gee Dubya, and he is a hell of a potent adversary. Yes he makes errors, but on balance he's better than all of the consultants, operatives, and strategists we Democrats have combined.

[mobuto]

10. No he didn't

1. Gore lost the 2000 election, Bush didn't win it. Forgetting for a minute the Supreme Court / Florida mess, which Rove had nothing to do with, I think the real failure was Gore's inability to create any sort of compelling national message. There's been a lot of post-election spin that's tried to create a national mandate for Bush, but there wasn't any.

has recently organized a powerful surge that has seen Bush blow by Kerry in the polls in only a few weeks' time.

2. Blow by Kerry? The two most recent polls I've seen, from the LA Times and from CBS News both show Kerry in the lead. Kerry was floating high because the Democratic primary process stole all the media attention. Then Rove put on $41 million in attack ads, and Kerry came down to earth. There's nothing terribly ingeneous about that. In fact, the real question is why Bush isn't firmly in the lead after such an aggressive attack.

Rove knows how to cheat and does not hesitate to do so.

3. All political hacks, from either party, know how to "cheat".

Yes he makes errors, but on balance he's better than all of the consultants, operatives, and strategists we Democrats have combined.

4. And you know this... how? What's your position of authority?

[MonicaR]

14. Gore Did Not Lose The 2000 Election

He won. The Supremes stopped the statewide recount in Florida that would have resulted in a Gore victory. Gore won despite katherine Harris and company illegally stripping 50,000 African-American from the voter rolls, a GOP engineered riot that halted the Miami-Dade County recount and other GOP hijinks.

[mobuto]

17. Well,

Gore lost the election because the only measure of who won and who lost that really counts is who's sworn in on January 20. But Rove had nothing to do with Florida, and nothing to do with the Supreme Court.

I think a competent Bush campaign could have easily blown Gore out of the water. Gore was a weak, unfocussed, totally uncompelling candidate. The manufacturing sector was in recession in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Illinois, and yet Bush still couldn't compete. And nationally, he didn't come within 500,000 votes of Gore.

The disenfranchisement of black voters in Florida was accomplished by local Republicans and, to a lesser extent, by the state Republican Party. It was not orchestrated by the Bush Campaign.

Rove is just thoroughly overrated. His political instincts are wrong, his only saving grace is that he can cover his incompetence with his limitless financial resources.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. Yes, it is possible to sell sand in the desert --

but you are unlikely to get alot of repeat customers.



Yes he makes errors, but on balance he's better than all of the consultants, operatives, and strategists we Democrats have combined.

What an idiotic, self-defeating statement.

[progressiverealist]

13. idiotic, huh? I think it's idiotic to underestimate one's adversary

we can beat Bush, but we have no Rove on out team. That's all I'm saying.

[mobuto]

15. I think its idiotic to overestimate one's adversary

Dems are scared shitless by Rove and we shouldn't be.

we have no Rove on out team.

No, we have a lot of political strategists who are a lot smarter.

ON EDIT: Removed one arbitrary example, but if you want a list of a hundred Dem strategists smarter than Rove, I could probably compile one in about half an hour. You just don't know what you're talking about.

[progressiverealist]

21. Yeah, calling me an idiot does a hell of a lot of good.

Pardon me for having an opinion that differs from yours.

I guess I'll just go shoot myself since I obviously don't measure up here on DU.

[mobuto]

23. WTF?

You said what I thought was "idiotic" - that's the exact word you used - and I replied that no, the reverse is idiotic. My statement was phrased identically to yours. What the hell's your problem?

I don't have any beef personally with you, in fact I've challenged you repeatedly to explain what your own personal expertise is. You've said that all Democrats in the field, combined, are less effective than Rove is, and yet you have neglected to describe what your basis is for making that rather bold assertion.

[progressiverealist]

26. what the hell's my problem?

My current problem is you're dogging my ass. Fine I'll shut up. I'll contribute my money (which I have) and vote straight ticked Dem but from now on I'll shut the fuck up. If you're the spokesperson for the current progressive movement and I'm going to be called an Idiot for a bit of pessimism once in a while then the hell with it.

[mobuto]

27. Huh?

I don't want you to shut up. I have never asked that you shut up. In fact I have asked that you explain what you're trying to say, which you haven't done.

If you're the spokesperson for the current progressive movement and I'm going to be called an Idiot for a bit of pessimism once in a while then the hell with it.


I didn't call you an idiot. What are you talking about?

[progressiverealist]

29. you clearly implied that I'm an idiot

What an idiotic, self-defeating statement is what you said. Idiotic statement, idiotic person. At first I thought you were merely insulting me... now it's damned clear that you think I'm some kind of sub-moron. Well what the fuck maybe you're right. My doctorate is in a physical science so what the fuck do I know about fucking politics right??

I'll try one more time to explain. Karl Rove has got to be an awesome force in politics if he can get George W. Bush even CLOSE enough to Al Gore to allow the theft of the election. Think about it... Bush Vs. Gore shouldn't have even been close. Why pretend Rove isn't powerful? We've got by FAR the better candidate, we've got all of the issues, and yet we lost. And it's happening again.

In my opinion Rove is damned good and we can't beat him at his game. We've got to do it another way. Get out the vote. Write letters to the editor. Call in shows. But the hell with it I'm an idiot so I'll just shut the fuck up. I'm sure I'll be banned soon enough.

[mobuto]

35. No that's not what I said

That's what another poster said. Don't put words in my mouth.

now it's damned clear that you think I'm some kind of sub-moron

Excuse me?

Karl Rove has got to be an awesome force in politics if he can get George W. Bush even CLOSE enough to Al Gore to allow the theft of the election.

Except that Gore an incompetent campaign. If Lee Atwater or someone similarly competent had been running the 2000 Bush campaign, I think he would have won by ten points.

Why pretend Rove isn't powerful?

I'm not. I think Rove isn't all that competent. He's very powerful.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. It is even more idiotic to underestimate and disrespect your allies.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mobuto]

20. You still haven't stated what your

expertise is. How do you know that Rove is so much more competent than Dems? Do you know Rove? Do you work Democratic political campaigns? You make a seemingly baseless blanket statement, then complain when you're called on it.

[progressiverealist]

25. I'm complaining about your name calling.

You can disagree with me all you want.

I guess I'm an idiot for having a different opinion than you. I guess I can't play in your club huh? Well forgive me. To answer at least one of your questions, I have worked on a few Dem campaigns, and I am sick of losing due to our ruthless republican counterparts.

Here's the deal: I may have made a dumb statement. I personally think Rove is damned good. I probably was over dramatic. For that I apologize. I guess it makes me an idiot.


Here's the personal part: I suffer from depression, largely exacerbated by the current political climate. We're in an uphill battle and I am obsessed with it. Because of the Bush administration and our republican state legislature, I'll probably be out of a job by next fall (I work for the state in higher education). My two kids have to grow up in George W. Bush's America. Believe me nobody wants to see Bush go more than me.

I suppose I shouldn't post here. I'll just piss off people like you and feel worse myself.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. If someone engages in namecalling, please hit 'Alert' and tell the mods.

BTW, your personal mental health is off-topic and not an appropriate topic for discussion in this forum. And also, it's no excuse for saying something stupid.

[progressiverealist]

30. well excuse me for that.

there's no excuse for my stupidity. God, the hell with it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. Please try to understand the distinction.

I don't consider myself stupid. Nevertheless, I have said and done many stupid things in my life. Despite my best efforts to the contrary, I fully expect to continue doing and saying stupid things in the future, as well.

Just because someone says something stupid, does not mean they are a stupid person.


OK?

[mobuto]

31. I didn't engage in namecalling

1. You accused everybody who works in Democratic politics of being incompetent. That includes me. I didn't much appreciate that.

2. You said my position was "idiotic". You used the word "idiotic." I responded in kind. But I did not call you an idiot, I didn't name call and I don't think you should interpret any of this as a personal attack on yourself.

3. I'm very sorry if you're depressed, and I don't take depression lightly, but that doesn't give you the right to libel Democrats, or to expect that you won't be called on it when you wax rhapsodically about Karl Rove's political skills. You're not the only one here who cares deeply about the November election and you have to post responsibly.

I suppose I shouldn't post here. I'll just piss off people like you and feel worse myself.

No please be here. I'm not trying to chase you away. But what I am asking is that you take things less personally and that, when you're making a controversial argument, you provide the facts to support your case.

[progressiverealist]

36. OK point taken.

I've personally alerted MYSELF and asked to be banned.

I've worked in campaigns too. I'm 39 and worked on Jesse Jackson's campaign in college, then on a couple of state campaigns and most recently on Bradley's 2000 primary run. I am 0-for- 4 and sick of it. I've seen our side out-spent, out-strategized, and out-fought every time. I'm sick of losing.

If I've become a defeatist then I need to get the hell out. I'm sure I'll soon be banned from DU but I assure you I will support Kerry and Russ Feingold (who I actually think has a fair chance of winning) financially and with my votes. My wife thinks I need to quit politics and she's probably right.

Well carry on and fight the good fight.

Out.

[EricNYC]

12. Did you read about Rove calling Bill Schneider abou teh Gallup poll

Saying that he believed it was Bush's positive ads that had made the difference. I can't remember where I read it. hah. The only reason Bush is still in this thing at all is because he's blowing millions a week on ads to raise Kerry's negatives. I thought the test run of the Kerry rapid response operation a couple weeks ago was stellar and once Kerry is engaged again this week, the sparks are going to fly, mark my words.

[rasputin1952]

24. Welcome to DU EricinNYC...

:toast: :hi:

:)

[JNelson6563]

18. Mayberry Machiavelli

He will fail eventually. It is starting now.

Julie

[Skeptical Democrat]

22. The difference, or part of it, seems to be that the media isn't

falling in line and buying it hook line and sinker or covering it up anymore. They aren't getting the free passes for stinkage that they used to..

[napi21]

32. I'm not sure it's Rove! Look what he has to work with!!!!!

I do think Rove is good at politics, but he has to try to work with what he's got, which isn't much! Buhsie keeps putting his foot in his own mouth. I'm sure Rove isn't a very happy camper.

[Dr Fate]

33. You dont have to be smart when the media does everthing you say.

n/t