Kerry needs Dean for VP.

[mzmolly]

Discuss. :hi:

Kerry is falling in the polls and needs a strong voice who can balance out his positions on the war and other issues.

They would make a great team.

[progressiverealist]

1. I don't think so.

Like it or not, he's got to pick someone who can bring in a few southern states. Kerry needs a southern running mate.

[mzmolly]

2. He's losing Blue states as of late!

Also, Dean's position on Gun Control can help in the South. :shrug:

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x491416

[progressiverealist]

7. I agree on the gun control thing

but I don't think it makes up for the fact that Southerners aren't going to vote for a guy from Massachusetts running with a guy from Vermont.

For many of the folks in the South the civil war has never ended.


BTW I live in Wisconsin, and Dean would help here. So I do see (part of) your point.

[Paradise]

18. perhaps that's why 'zell' is retiring.

joke:hi:

[MoonRiver]

3. Latest 2 major polls put Kerry ahead.

He's doing great. :)

[mzmolly]

5. But state by state he may be in trouble?

:shrug:

[MoonRiver]

9. If people are that stupid in this country,

I don't think Dean or anybody else can help Kerry win. We'll just have to endure a complete fascist take-over with national and international repercussions of unknown, but probably terrible consequences.

[mzmolly]

23. But I think Dean speaks in a manner that resonates with many Americans

intelligent and not so.

Kerry is lofty and doesn't cut to the chase, Dean does. We need "balance" and these two guys off set one another nicely.

[MoonRiver]

35. I think Dean does speak in a manner that resonates.

My huge fear is that if people don't get how unbelievably vile and corrupt this regime is right now at this point in time, no amount of packaging any Dem candidate, whether Dean or Kerry is going to have a rat's ass of success. The outrages are so blatant and obvious, even with the righwing media machine working overtime to cover them up, that what can I say, either the polls are as rigged as the voting machines, or Americans are hopellessly retarded as a group.

[mzmolly]

39. I agree. John Dean speaks about Impeaching Bush because his crimes

make Nixons look like a bike theft.

It's time Democrats started using the *I* word too! Kerry should call for the impeachment himself.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. It's interesting that we have to worry about winning popular vote...

And loosing electorally at the same time. Generally if not re-elected the opponent wins the popular vote and the electoral vote because there's a sense all over the country that the president hasn't done a good job. After last election, we truly have to worry about winning individual states even if Kerry is ahead 2 or 3 points nationally.

[Bill Wade]

4. I'd rather see Dean stay out of Kerry's campaign

He'll do much better as a somewhat liberal spectator/troublemaker.

I think Bob Graham would make a great VP for Kerry. Maybe even Gephardt, even though I can't stand him.

[mzmolly]

6. *

:P

I think Dean would give the Kerry campaign the energy it is lacking.

Even Edwards has some of that fire that Kerry so desperately needs.

I think Graham is ok too, but Gephardt "Dull and Duller"??? I am not taking anything from Kerry's strengths, but he needs someone to fire things up a bit.

:boring:

[MaineDem]

8. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

And I share your opinion of Gephardt. I think Graham would be a good choice.

I also think Dean would be better on the sidelines during this campaign. I'd like to see him as a thorn in the side of the GOP and he can do that much better from the outside than as part of the ticket.

[mzmolly]

10. I spose...

:( ya got a point.

But Kerry may need a thorn if the polls keep sliding?

[JI7]

11. people think Kerry is too liberal

which is why his poll numbers went down. to balance it out he would need someone like john edwards who isn't seen as liberal.

[mzmolly]

12. Edwards voted for the same bills many teetering on the Nader edge

have issues with.

Dean would even out the Nader factor and even out Kerry on other issues as well.

IMHO Kerry needs a VP who was opposed to the war among other things.

That leaves either Graham or Dean, from the pool of candidates.

We also have to consider Ralph Nader's appeal. Dean would help in that regard, and in all fairness Graham may help more in the South?

[JI7]

13. Ralph Nader isn't as big a problem as some think he is

and anyways nader is on record as saying kerry has a good record and to vote for kerry if you want to get rid of bush. he also said he likes some of the cases john edwards took on as a trial lawyer. nader isn't going to give up running anyways. there are more moderate voters who kerry needs and edwards or someone like edwards will be needed to help with them.

[mzmolly]

15. Most moderates who don't have their heads up their arse are already

voting for Kerry. It's the left we need to energize here. Kerry already has all the moderate vote he's gonna get.

And, we all know Dean is a moderate who energizes the left. :shrug:
He also has an excellent fiscal record in Vermont.

[JI7]

16. no, it's not the left

certain people on the left as shown on du will not support kerry no matter what. they will bring up every little thing and ask questions like "so , what's the difference between kerry and bush". you can't depend on these people for their votes. but kerry can depend on edwards doing all he can do help deliver as many votes to the ticket as he can. ralph nader isn't going to drop out of the race, he could have campaigned for kucinich and been a stronger supporter of his during the primary but he didn't. he had a hard time endorsing paul wellstone. most liberals already support kerry, those on du who were longtime supporters of kerry are mostly liberals. the polls show kerry's numbers went down because he was seen as too liberal, mostly based on tv ads.

[mzmolly]

22. Nader has dipped into Kerry's polling numbers.

I also don't know that Kerry's polling numbers dropped because he's viewed as too liberal.

Do you have any data that would suggest that is the case? It seems to me they went down when Nader entered the race.

Also, Dean is a moderate, so the Kerry's too liberal meme would be served well by Dean also.

He balances out a Kerry ticket beautifully. Edwards and Kerry are the same guy as of late. The only difference is one is from the South. And, I'll give you that.

[JI7]

24. no, Edwards is seen as moderate

it's perception. the national polls show kerry's support went down because he is viewed as too liberal. it doesn't matter if nader has support right now. it's a good thing at this moment if kerry and nader's numbers are over 50 percent together. kerry has a liberal record of his own (which helps explain the perception of him as liberal)that he can use to get support. including quotes from ralph nader himself. for some reason people who don't hate bush do like edwards. and while most people vote based on who is at the top of the ticket there are some who will vote based on vp and in a close election it will matter.

and anyways it's not good to make a decision based on every single latest poll or news. polls just a few weeks ago showed kerry/edwards beating bush so based on that kerry should pick edwards. polls showed kerry's campaign over just days before the iowa caucuses.

[mzmolly]

25. Point taken...

My Republican in laws like Kerry/Edwards ... especially Edwards. But, I think that team will send more people over to the Nader column. I don't see it as a win/win personally.

I'd have to say Graham over Edwards, who is also moderate, but evens out Kerry on the War etc... However, I still think Dean would make the BEST choice for VP.

[JI7]

26. i would like to see more polls

with kerry and different vp choices. and while as i said we shouldn't make decisions on those polls alone it could give an idea of what direction the campaign needs to take, especially if there is a long term trend. there was a poll of kerry with hillary and the numbers were not that different than with edwards. just maybe up to 4 points difference. i wish they would do some more polls of kerry with others as vp.

[mzmolly]

29. Me too. I imagine there are some internal polls, but I agree.

Polls of this nature would be interesting to see.

[w13rd0]

14. I don't want Dean tied that closely...

...to the Kerry ticket. Sorry, but it just seems to me that we're going to have to not only convince voters that Kerry would be a better president than Bush, but Kerry needs convincing as well. Is there anyone on his team that actually wants to win?

[Bombtrack]

17. Even Dean has shown he believes it a rediculous idea.

Really, what don't you understand about the electoral college. The only worse state a case can be made for, for a democratic nominee to come from electorally than Massachusetts is Vermont, and vice-versa.

Dean's on no short-list for the Kerry campaign, he's on no long-list. The list he's on has him right after Jim Traficant and Gary Condit

[w13rd0]

19. You are fine up to a point...

...but then you've got to make an assinine slam by trying to put Dean on some mythical list below Trafficant and Condit. That's just lame. Never pass on an opportunity to slam on Dean though, right?

[dsc]

20. Just what would satisfy you in regards to Dean

I mean really. Would killing all the first born children of Dean supporters do it? Would steralizing them do it? Would torturing Dean on national TV do it? Just what would it take?

[mzmolly]

21. Really? When did Traficant and/or Condit meet with Kerry?

:shrug:

Did Condit get a standing Ovation and recognition from Carter/Clinton at the Democratic Unity Dinner?

You have zero credibility with statements like this...course that's nothing new.

Next...

[Bombtrack]

27. I wasn't equating Dean to Condit or Trafficant

I'm just stressing just how much Dean isn't in consideration for the vice presidential pick, and extrapolating, how imbecilic it would make the Kerry campaign were he in consideration.

Notice I didn't attack or criticize YOU either. I exclaimed the notion you had was in conflict with reality, in my opinion, and I explained why.

The same cannot be said with you when you say I have zero credibity, and apparently, haven't had any credibility.

[mzmolly]

28. My apologies if I became personal.

However, I don't think you can stress that Dean isn't a consideration unless you know Kerry personally?

You explained why my position was not "a position of reality" while using absurd comparisons, thus my statement on your credibility. I don't find your comparisons "credible." In fact, I found them insulting.

Sorry if I took your point the wrong way. :hi:

[JI7]

31. from what i heard

the early list has many names and no reason to think that dean would not be on it. based on history and other things many people can come up with top considerations like clark, edwards, graham. but kerry and the guy he hired and other top people in the campaign probably do a lot more analysis of what could be the outcome of the election with different vp choices, what the positives and negatives are. and someone most people had not really considered based on media and other things early on could be found to have something that they see as really helping in the election. you have to remember most of the media is lazy and their analysis is mostly based on name recognition. but name recognition is not a problem once vp announcement is made and they get all the media attention. i also heard the vp selection thing is very top secret with many in the campaign not being in on it. i'm sure people leak things to the media especially after the interviews with different choices start. and supporters of candidates probably do that also to try to help the one they want as vp. i thought it was interesting reading the al gore selection thing after lieberman was publicly announced as vp. kerry and edwards were on the short list but gore didn't pick kerry in part because of the "morals" issue. he was trying to get away from clinton and kerry's private life, especially before he married teresa and dated a bunch of woman would not help in playing the morals card. kerry was my top choice in 2000 though. and lieberman was picked of course because he is known as being moral. but his speech against clinton on the monica lewinsky thing was something that really helped him. i think gore made a mistake with that.

[slinkerwink]

30. No----Dean would never be Kerry's VP, and he's said as much

not this election year, maybe he'll run again in '08.

[mzmolly]

32. He did?

I wasn't aware of that :(

[JI7]

33. 2 northeasterners

he said it's probably not a good idea to have 2 northeasterners on the same ticket. but he never ruled out accepting vp if asked. i don't think anyone has. they just say things like they are busy and happy with the job they are doing and expect to finish their term and other similar things. but none have ruled it out 100 percent. none have said if they are asked they will not accept under any circumstances. history shows those too eager are usually not chosen so it makes sense for them to speak that way.

[NoPasaran]

34. No for two reasons

I would rather see Dean work on building Democracy for America into a powerful, sustainable grassroots organization. In the long term this can do more for the future of progressive politics than running for the vice presidency.

Also, not being on the ticket, Dean is able to function as an attack dog, calling the rethugs on their lying bullshit. If he were on the ticket he would have to be more restrained.

[madfloridian]

36. Dean should not be VP for Kerry.

He is too much needed other ways.

[mzmolly]

37. Ok, I'm sold...

;)

[Dying Eagle]

40. no dean

To much emotion and he speaks before he thinks. I love the guy, but the country is not ready for Dean YET! Dean will still be young in '12