Hillary supporters are ignoring the math because....

[Blarch]

They are counting on her winning it by changing the rules in the middle of the game, per FL/MI

It goes unspoken on the DU ...but make no mistake this is their last card .....cheating

[BeatleBoot]

1. Neither Candidate can win without Super Delegates now.

Reason #1 to support Hillary:
In Arkansas she was instrumental in straightening out their school system - taking it from one of the worst systems to a role model used by other troubled schools on how to improve public education.

Reason #2 to support Hillary:
In 2006, she led the fight to kill the anti-gay Republican constitutional amendment that for the first time would have added laws to the Constitution that would INCREASE discrimination.

Reason #3 to support Hillary:
After being pummeled by the public for trying to pass Universal Health care while she was First Lady, she dusted herself off and in 1997, led a federal effort that provided insurance support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.

Reason #4 to Support Hillary:
She was able to secure a raise in research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

Reason #5 to Support Hillary:
She initiated the Adoption and Safe Families Act.

Reason #6 to Support Hillary:
She's authored a great deal of legislation during her years on the Armed Services Committee that has passed regarding increased and improved benefits for our returning Iraq veterans.

Reason #7 to Support Hillary:
She was one of the key Senators who fought to give our military badly needed raises and increase in benefits. For being such flag wavers, it was the Republicans and Bush who resisted these attempts to show our military how much we value and appreciate them.

Reason #8 to Support Hillary:
Since 1974 she has been fighting for a woman's right to choose.

Reason #9 to Support Hillary:
She is fighting to lift the ban on stem cell research to cure devastating diseases.

Reason #10 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)

Reason #11 to Support Hillary:
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. (Dec 2003)

Reason #12 to Support Hillary:
Vows to protect next generation by paying off national debt.

Reason #13 to Support Hillary:
Fought in Congress to "Help people facing foreclosure; don't just bail-out banks." (Aug 2007)

Reason #14 to Support Hillary:
In 1962 she met MLK Jr. preaching a sermon in Chicago and learned from him the importance of equal rights for all.

Reason #15 for Supporting Hillary:
In 1965 she brought black classmates to her until-then all-white church.

Reason #16 to Support Hillary:
Since 1995 has criticized China's human rights abuses.

Reason #17 to Support Hillary:
IN 1988 Instituted gender diversity Report Card within the American Bar Association, which sets standards for lawyers in the U.S.

Reason #18 to Support Hillary:
In 1972 worked as a lawyer suing white-only schools, working with Marian Wright Edelman on enforcing school desegregation in the South.

Reason #19 to Support Hillary:
In October, 2000 she said it's not enough for America just to apologize for slavery and move on; we need to concentrate on civil rights now.

Reason #20 to Support Hillary:
Has been pushing for a "Privacy Bill of Rights" for all Americans since 2000.

Reason #21 to support Hillary:
Will end don't ask, don't tell in the military, "Gay soldiers need to shoot straight, not be straight." November 2003.

Reason #22 to Support Hillary:
Supports civil unions, with full equality of federal benefits.

Reason #23 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on adding violent crimes based on victim's sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes.

Reason #24 to support Hillary:
Rated 96% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance.

Reason #25 to support Hillary:
Freedom of Speech: Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration.

Reason #26 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore. (Mar 2005)

Reason #27 to Support Hillary:
Voted more funding and stricter sentencing for prosecution of hate crimes. (Apr 2001)

Reason #28 to Support Hillary:
Voted to Require DNA testing for all federal executions. (Mar 2001)

Reason #29 to Support Hillary:
Although she was in college during the height of the drug culture in the late 1960s, she was devoted to work on civil rights instead of partying and taking drugs.

Reason #30 to Support Hillary:
She is fighting for Universal pre-kindergarten.

Reason #31 to Support Hillary:
Wants to establish an education "Bill of Rights" - Establish right to education from pre-school thru college.

Reason #32 to Support Hillary:
Since 1998 has fought publicly to keep art and music programs in public schools. "Arts education is needed in our schools."

Reason #33 to Support Hillary:
'Government should pay off all student loans for teachers who go to urban schools." March, 2000

Reason #34 to Support Hillary:
Wants a complete re-write, a Total change in No Child Left Behind. (August, 2007)

Reason #35 to Support Hillary:
Rated 82% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes.

Reason #36 to Support Hillary
Voted YES on spending $448B on education & debt reduction instead of Bush's tax cut for the rich. (Apr 2001)

Reason #37 to Support Hillary:
Wants to "Remove energy dependence on countries who would harm us." (Jun 2006)

Reason #38 to Support Hillary:
Wants to build a "$50B strategic energy research fund from taxing oil companies." (Oct 2006)

Reason #39 to Support Hillary:
Wants to Invest in alternative energy; jobs that won't be outsourced.

Reason #40 to Support Hillary:
Called on U.S. to Ratify Kyoto; and fund more mass transit. (Sep 2000)

Reason #41 to Support Hillary:
Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence. (Dec 2006)

Reason #42 to Support Hillary:

Voted NO on drilling for oil in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)

Reason #43 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)

Reason #44 to Support Hillary:
Voted NO on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)

Reason #45 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)

Reason #46 to Support Hillary: (listen up Louisiana!)
Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)

Reason #47 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning. (May 2007)

Reason #48 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on making oil-producing and exporting cartels illegal. (Jun 2007)

Reason #49 to Support Hillary:
Rated 89% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes.

Reason #50 to Support Hillary:
Voted NO on confirming Gale Norton as Secretary of Interior. (Jan 2001)

Reason #51 to Support Hillary:
Called on Bush to "Put someone in charge of Katrina recovery who actually cares." (Aug 2007)

Reason #52 to Support Hillary:
Her Support for green-collar job training

Reason #53 to Support Hillary:
Introduced bill to Better track kids' products for exposures to toxic materials coming from China.

Reason #54 to support Hillary:
Calls for the government to treat kids as "child citizens" not "minors" under the law. (Since Dec 1999)

Reason #55 to Support Hillary:
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition

Reason #56 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on enlarging NATO to include poor Eastern Europe nations. (May 2002

Reason #57 to Support Hillary:
"Smartest strategic choice is peace." (Nov 1999)

Reason #58 to Support Hillary:
Calling for a NATO-enforced no-fly zone to end Darfur genocide. (June, 2007

Reason #59 to Support Hillary:
IN the 1970s worked to pass Constitutional Amendment to allow young people aged 18, 19, 20 to vote.

Reason #60 to Support Hillary:
Voted NO on allowing lobbyist gifts to Congress

Reason #61 to Support Hillary:
Pledges to support $50B for AIDS relief in US and world

Reason #62 to Support Hillary:
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record.

Reason #63 to Support Hillary:
Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)

Reason #64 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)

Reason #65 to Support Hillary:
Says, "Torture cannot be American policy, period." (Sep 2007)

Reason #66 to Support Hillary:
She would never say anything as creepy and cult-like as "We are the ones we have been waiting for."

Reason #67 to Support Hillary:
Rated 100% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record.

Reason # 68 to Support Hillary:
Voted NO on extending the PATRIOT Act's wiretap provision. (Dec 2005)

Reason #69 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods. (Sep 2006)

Reason #70 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on preserving habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees. (Sep 2006)

Reason #71 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on limiting soldiers' deployment to 12 months. (Jul 2007)

Reason #72 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship. (May 2006)

Reason #73 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on comprehensive immigration reform. (Jun 2007)

Reason #74 to Support Hillary:
Voted: No salary increase for Congress until minimum wage increased.

Reason #75 to Support Hillary:
Would accept minimum wage as president. (Jul 2007)

Reason #76 to Support Hillary:
Rated 85% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record.

Reason #77 to Support Hillary:
Voted NO on repealing Clinton's ergonomic rules on repetitive stress. (Mar 2001)

Reason #78 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25.

Reason #79 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on restricting employer interference in union organizing

Reason #80 to Support Hillary:
Admits she made mistake in believing in WMDs in Iraq after being mislead by the Bush Administration.

Reason #81 to Support Hillary:
Reaches out to conservatives but voting record is progressive.

Reason #82 to Support Hillary:
"Karl Rove is obsessed with me because I take Republicans on & beat them." (Aug 2007)

Reason #83 to Support Hillary:
Served as a Staff attorney on Watergate/Nixon impeachment investigation.

Reason #84 to Support Hillary:
1976: Organized Indiana for Carter-Mondale campaign. She knows what it is like to work on a democrat campaign in RED STATES!

Reason #85 to Support Hillary:
Rated 100% by the AU, indicating support of church-state separation.

Reason #86 to Support Hillary:
Voted NO on confirming John Roberts for Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

Reason #87 to Support Hillary:
Voted NO on confirming Samuel Alito as Supreme Court Justice.

Reason #88 to Support Hillary:
Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record.

Reason #89 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on increasing tax deductions for college tuition.

Reason #90 to Support Hillary:
At Wellesley in 1968, steered college anti-war movement.

Reason #91 to Support Hillary:
Recommended by EMILY's List of pro-choice women.

Reason #92 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)

Reason # 93 to Support Hillary:
1980s: Led her church to found the largest daycare in Arkansas.

Reason #94 to Support Hillary:
1978: chaired Legal Services Corp. in President Carter's Administration - allowing Poor Families access to legal aid

Reason #95 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on implementing the 9/11 Commission report to get us out of Iraq in a fast, safe manner.

Reason #96 to Support Hillary:
Voted YES on restoring $565M for states' and ports' first responders eliminated by the Bush Administration.

Reason #97 to Support Hillary:
Worked with Evan Bayh, Al Gore, Bill Clinton and others in the 1980s to rejuvenate the Democratic Party from within.

Reason #98 to Support Hillary:
In 1969, she entered law school as "vehicle for social change."

Reason #99 to Support Hillary:
Calls to Increase spending for libraries.

Reason #100 to Support Hillary:
In October, 2006 - called for "Phased redeployment out of Iraq, beginning immediately.

[JackORoses]

6. so that makes cheating OK?

[rosetta627]

8. Reasons 101-10,001 not to vote for Hillary

101=Dead Iraqi civilian woman
102=Dead Iraqi civilian man
103=Dead US soldier in Iraq
104=Dead Iraqi civilian child
...

[KaptBunnyPants]

23. You forgot a few million reasons..

I know it wasn't intentional, but you under-represented the civilian toll of the invasion and occupation of Iraq by several factors.

[rosetta627]

26. Thank you for taking note of that KaptBunnyPants

Sadly there's probably not enough bandwidth on DU to reflect the true tally.

[surfin]

21. I was told she ruined the Arkansas educational system

In Hawaai they tell a story of how she help get Hawaii out of last place (50th) after taking over education for Arkansas and driving them down to the bottom.

I would liek to prove this and got if from dems who were mad about Hillary attacking the school Obama went in Hawaii.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

38. It was part of her master plan

She knew that educated voters wouldn't vote for her.

[KaptBunnyPants]

24. If she can't get more pledged delegates than Obama, she'll never be president.

Overturning the winner of the popular vote would destroy the Democratic Party. I've voted straight ticket in the past 4 elections. It'll be my last vote for the Democratic Party if they attempted such a stunt on anyone's behalf, and I would not be alone. The supers know this, so your attempts to undermine democracy will fail.

[aquart]

2. No, we're just enjoying you arrogant sweethearts spinning like tops.

Anything that makes you a little less smug is a plus. Although I doubt anything will make you less nasty or more truthful.

[msongs]

5. that's not a nice thing to say about obama supporters nt

[Maddy McCall]

9. That's preciisely it.

:D

[rwheeler31]

3. Her campaign will destroy us.

[rinsd]

4. Neither candidate can without Superdelegates.

And if Hillary is able to get some momentum and win out she can make the case that she is deserving of the nomination.

Though I think for that to be a winning argument the pledged delegate count will have to be close, real close.

[mudesi]

7. CAN YOU CLINTON PEOPLE STOP ALREADY?!

She has to get 70% in every contest now.

It's not going to happen!

[rinsd]

10. If she is within in 20 or 25 pledged delegates, I think she can make the case to Supers.

[anigbrowl]

14. I thought Penn said that would happen last night

More power to her if she can pull it off. I'm not holding my breath though.

[Blarch]

15. No way.

She won't get the delegates, or the super delegates, or the most states won, or the popular vote.

It's over. She is Huckabee land.

[Zhade]

18. Not without holding the popular vote, which she doesn't and won't.

NT!

[JackORoses]

42. do you realize how low you have sunk?

How can you keep parading around the disenfranchisement of FL and MI,
all the while supporting the ultimate subversion of all voting by the Superdelegates?

You reak of hypocrisy, much like your master.

[anigbrowl]

12. Let them fantasize for a while

reality will set in soon enough.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. She has to get 70% in every contest to meet a standard you have invented

There is no rule anywhere that the pledged delegate winner gets the nomination.

You or I can say he/she should.

You or I can say the party will explode if he/she doesn't.

But nobody can't say the process requires that she get 70% in every contest to be the nominee.

[JackORoses]

11. how can she catch up in Pledged Delegates?

are you a believer in the MI-FL-SuperPoachedDelegates Theory?

[0007]

44. Only by recruiting Jim Baker will that happen.

[ClassWarrior]

19. Get some momentum? How?

How do you expect her to "get some momentum." Really. Outline a few "momentum" scenarios.

NGU.

[rinsd]

32. She just won 2 more big states.

The MSM appears to be turning on Obama.

We'll have to see how the next few weeks turn out.

[snappyturtle]

35. Which big states? OH and ??????????? n/t

[truedelphi]

37. When I went to bed last night, the media were giving her Ohio and TX

The two stations that I was watching seemed to favor Clinton (MSNBC and CNN)

[snappyturtle]

45. In Texas Hillary has a few more, 4, delegates for the primary.

However, in the caucus, Obama is ahead with 56% to Hillary's 44% with 67 delegates at stake. NPR reported last night at five o'clock that they expect the percentages to stay about where they are. If so, Obama will net more delegates from Texas. I am not talking popular vote since this nominee selection seems to be wrapped around delegate numbers. The Texas delegates then go through a regional and state formality process before actually awarded. Although, technically the delegates can vote in a different direction than the electorate does. Confused yet?

It is a cumbersome process but I think it gets down to the basics of attracting citizens to speak out through the primary and caucus systems.

[surfin]

22. How many more super delegates she lose today?

I heard two. When is the last time she gained one?

[rinsd]

31. How many can she gain back with a string of wins?

You do know that Superdelegates have not voted yet, right?

[wileedog]

40. There is one meaningful state left for her

Pennsylvania.

The rest are small delegate counts or already heavily leaning toward Obama. Heck even the media which has 'turned' on him will come right back when he stomps her in Wyoming and Miss next week. That's what they do.

Its over. All that can happen now is more damage.

[KittyWampus]

46. And Obama is picking up Delegates. god Hillary supporters are stupid.

[rinsd]

47. Superdelegates don't vote till the convention and can change their mind at any time.

So Superdelegates (and Hillary's lead in that category) do not matter until there is a massive realignment behind one candidate which we have not seen.

[cynatnite]

16. NOT TRUE...Read what Howard Dean says...

We're glad to hear that the Governors of Michigan and Florida are willing to lend their weight to help resolve this issue. As we've said all along, we strongly encourage the Michigan and Florida state parties to follow the rules, so today's public overtures are good news. The rules, which were agreed to by the full DNC including representatives from Florida and Michigan over 18 months ago, allow for two options. First, either state can choose to resubmit a plan and run a party process to select delegates to the convention; second, they can wait until this summer and appeal to the Convention Credentials Committee, which determines and resolves any outstanding questions about the seating of delegates. We look forward to receiving their proposals should they decide to submit new delegate selection plans and will review those plans at that time. The Democratic Nominee will be determined in accordance with party rules, and out of respect for the presidential campaigns and the states that did not violate party rules, we are not going to change the rules in the middle of the game.

"Through all the speculation, we should also remember the overwhelming enthusiasm and turnout that we have already seen, and respect the voters of the ten states who have yet to have their say.

"As we head towards November, our nominee must have the united support of a strong Democratic Party that's ready to fight and ready to beat John McCain. After seven years of Republican rule, I am confident that we will elect a Democratic president who will fight for America's families in the White House. Now we must hear from the voters in twelve states and territories who have yet to make their voices heard."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20080305/pl_usnw/dean_statement_on_florida_and_michigan

[Blarch]

20. And this...

The Democratic Nominee will be determined in accordance with party rules, and out of respect for the presidential campaigns and the states that did not violate party rules, we are not going to change the rules in the middle of the game.

[Sir Jeffrey]

29. ...

Just made my night cyantnite


:thumbsup:

[truedelphi]

36. So who seats the people that serve on the

Convention Credentials Committee??

[madfloridian]

39. He told them that before the vote ever happened. They were warned.

They laughed, and voted 115 to 1.

[WillyT]

17. Lying (Check), Cheating (Pending), Now... What Comes After Those Two ???

:shrug:

[tridim]

30. Lawyers? nt

[WillyT]

43. I Thought It Was Stealing... But You Might Be Right...

:evilgrin:

[Fresh_Start]

25. because superdelegates can change their minds

so you can't assume their votes are committed

[Blarch]

28. If you are...

holding out for the supers to overturn the will of the people, then I am wrong, you have two cards left to play, both involve breaking the rules or ignoring the majority. Well done.

[Mike03]

27. When I clicked on this thread I was really hoping to get some kind of

technical answer that would settle the question, but it was just a dumb ass empty thread that didn't help anyone or clarify anything.

Thanks for nothing.

[Blarch]

33. This thread isn't about...

the math ...it's about the reasons why they are ignoring the math.

There are already 10 'math threads' going ...it would have been inconsiderate to start another one. Sorry to disappoint. I will now commit Hari Kiri...

[truedelphi]

41. This OP of mine from abt two weeks ago includes

The URL for the superdelegate site I find most helpful

http://tinyurl.com/38jkqb

IS that more what you are looking for?? Site claims to be non partisan and committed to helping people receive superdelegate knowledge

[still_one]

34. Either way, she will never get my vote in the general election if she wins the nomination

as far as I am concerned this speaks her true colors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P21PRmUzN-A

what she has effectively done is endorse mccain over Obama if he gets the nomination

I can't use the words I would like to about her comments in this forum, but the one thing I can do is ensure that MY vote WILL NEVER GO TO HER because of that