Give me "shoulder pad feminism" any day

[pnwmom]

over the garter belt feminism of Maureen Dowd and her ilk.

"Some women in their 30s, 40s and early-50s who favor Barack Obama have a phrase to describe what they don’t like about Hillary Clinton: Shoulder-pad feminism.

"They feel that women have moved past that men-are-pigs, woe-is-me, sisters-must-stick-together, pantsuits-are-powerful era that Hillary’s campaign has lately revived with a vengeance.

:And they don’t like Gloria Steinem and other old-school feminists trying to impose gender discipline and a call to order on the sisters.

"As a woman I know put it: “Hillary doesn’t make it look like fun to be a woman. And her ‘I-have-been-victimized’ campaign is depressing.”

:But Hillary — carried on the padded shoulders of the older women in Texas, Ohio and Rhode Island who loved her “I Will Survive” rallying cry that “I am a little older and I have earned every wrinkle on my face” — has been saved to fight another day."

SNIP

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/opinion/05dowd.html?hp

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. That's silly. No one smiles w/more genuine radiance than HRC n/t

[LulaMay]

9. Yeah, those women who formed the modern day feminist movement are such DOWNERS it feels GREAT. :)

To see a woman this close to winning the presidency...to win primaries.

Women who don't like feminists who spawned the movement in the 60's and 70's don't understand how much they owe to them.


Maureen Dowd is no feminist.

Gloria Steinem rocks (and is very nice and funny. I got to meet her once).

[DURHAM D]

2. Maureen is one sick fuck. eom

[rodeodance]

69. yes. she is!! I recall her dissing Kerry a few weeks before the election. she has

gotten worse and worse!!

[Gormy Cuss]

3. Source?

Which women would those be, FAUX anchors?

[pnwmom]

4. Thanks. I'll put in a link.

It's her regular column in the NYTimes.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. Thanks. I'm still waiting to hear a single woman IRL tell me that she's supporting Clinton

based on gender. What a piece of crap.

[OzarkDem]

5. Me, too!

I don't understand the whole concept of act- slutty- and- let- men- treat- you- like- garbage- version of today's "feminism".

Sexual freedom is one thing, becoming a doormat is another.

[pnwmom]

7. And I'm sure Hillary wears pants for the same reasons I do.

They're comfortable, practical, warm, and you don't have to wear stockings -- or -- horrors! -- always shave your legs.

[xmas74]

48. They also cover my ankle tatoo

and the beginning of a spider vein.

Let's face it-we just don't look as good in short skirts as we get older. Besides, I love HRC's pantsuits.

[pnwmom]

58. I like them, too.

If she were taller, I'd be happy to take her hand-me-downs.

(I've got that pear-shaped thing going, too.)

[xmas74]

77. I'm shorter.

I'd be only too glad to have them-take them in on the bottom.

I'm more hourglass but with a bit of work they'd fit fine.

[peacebird]

6. I would prefer less "poor poor pitiful put upon me" - the "I've earned every wrinkle"

is just too freaking cloying and annoying.

The whining over press coverage and most especially the "at my age it's flattering to have so many men paying attention" just make me cringe...

The longer this campaign drags on the less respect I have for Hillary.

I am supposedly part of THE core HRC support group - a college educated professional woman of 50.

I believe she will stay in the race til the bloody end, thus guaranteeing McCain the White House

[OzarkDem]

12. I guess I missed that part

I don't know of any stong women in my generation who solicit pity.

Perhaps you can give us an example?

[peacebird]

21. Hillary

[OzarkDem]

22. Like I said

your post has no merit.

[peacebird]

24. every quote in my first post is HRC's. every one is poor me - those mean men.

Oh and the convenient "tears"

:eyes:

As a woman - her campaign is an embarrassment

On edit - every quote except the literal "poor poor pitiful me" - but that has been ever implied....

[pnwmom]

28. Almost every 50 and 60 year old professional woman knows exactly

what she has gone through to get where she has. And they're not saying "poor me." They're saying, to those who always want to put them in a double bind -- F-off!

[BlackVelvet04]

81. n/t

[anonymous171]

8. Steinem will just end up as a liability for Hillary

Have you heard some of her comments about McCain?

[pnwmom]

10. I heard her say that being a prisoner of war isn't a qualification for the

White House . . . is that what you're talking about?

[anonymous171]

16. Not exactly.

She also said "I am so grateful that she hasn’t been trained to kill anybody. And she probably didn’t even play war games as a kid."

[rodeodance]

74. YOU neglected to tell her that Hillary distanced herself from that Immediately!!

[rodeodance]

73. Hillary distanced herself from that quote within hours and good for her!

[joshcryer]

11. check out my sig pwnmom. Obama's delegates are "cheaper" than Hillary's. Very telling about the...

...process. Because Hillarys only chance is winning most of the true blue states, she has a better chance of being respected equally as far as gender lines are drawn. So her delegates cost *more* since Obama wins those red states easily.

It's an amazing thing, I swear! I didn't think the political process could draw these lines so distinctly.

[peacebird]

19. per your sig line - I take it as a referendum on the candidate not the gender

HRC's problem is not her sex, it is her campaign, her message, and the perception that she will do anything to get elected. It is her triangulation not her lack of testosterone, that causes her problems.

[pnwmom]

26. Interesting analysis. n/t

[NashVegas]

14. Dowd Is An Asshole

There's no other way to put it.

[amborin]

15. Maureen Dowd has lost it

she's gone off the deep end

turned totally vicious, bitter and whacko

[seabeyond]

17. so now are we going to dissect the different kinds of women to attack each other

this is the part of the election i am on hillary's side. not that she is a woman i would want to be, or i particularly admire her as a woman, cause not.... bills ass would be on the curb, BUT who the fuck cares, get off this woman stuff, this kinda woman that kinda woman.

i did not see what hillary did in tx oh ri as honorable.... i will survive.... regardless of the cost, even ethics and honor lay on the side of the road.

i do not respect that and has nothing to do with woman, but how a person decides to walk life. we have seen to many male republicans do this too. dont admire them either. it is not a banner for woman to hold up to honor hillary. it is shame that she has to resort to dishonesty

[KoKo]

39. I agree with you about this.... Dowd segmenting women into groups

and dissing "shoulder pad women" (of whom Dowd is also a member..much as she might want to disguise her age experience) and comparing them to others is incredibly demeaning.

I tried to parse out where she was going with this column...and finally decided she was just "twitting" to cause some controversy where there is none. She has a beef with Gloria Steinem? She maybe has some "padded shouldered blouses" lurking in her closet that she's ashamed of? :shrug?

[seabeyond]

44. well i have big enough shoulders i never needed the pads.

now what..... lol wink. i hear ya. that is what it sounded like

[NashVegas]

18. I've Got Your Old School Feminist Right Here

A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ...

enough money within her control to move out and rent
a place of her own, even if she never wants to or needs to...


A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ..

something perfect to wear if the employer, or date of her
dreams wants to see her in an hour...


A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ..

a youth she's content to leave behind....


A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ...

a past juicy enough that she's looking forward to
retelling it in her old age. ...


A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE .....

a set of screwdrivers, a cordless drill, and a black lace
bra...


A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE

one friend who always makes her laugh... and one who lets her
cry...


A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ....

a good piece of furniture not previously owned by anyone else
in her family...


A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ...

eight matching plates, wine glasses with stems and a recipe
for a meal that will make her guests feel honored...


A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE ...

a feeling of control over her destiny.


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW ...

how to fall in love without losing herself.


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW...

how to quit a job, break up with a lover, and confront a
friend without ruining the friendship...


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW...

when to try harder... and when to walk away...


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW...

that she can't change the length of her calves,
the width of her hips or the nature of her parents..


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW...

that her childhood may not have been perfect...but its over...


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW...

what she would and wouldn't do for love or more...


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW...

how to live alone... even if she doesn't like it...


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW..

whom she can trust,
whom she can't,
and why she shouldn't take it personally...


EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW...

where to go...
be it to her best friend's kitchen table...
or a charming inn in the woods...
when her soul needs soothing...

EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW...

what she can and can't accomplish in a day...
a month...and a year...


- Maya Angelou

[pnwmom]

30. Ah! Maya.

Thanks for the reminder.

[KoKo]

40. Great sentiments...even though women don't need those "stemed wine glasses" anymore...

who knows when they might come back in fashion. :D

[rodeodance]

71. i recall that .

[tishaLA]

20. Maureen Down: A "Liberal" Ann Coulter

[anonymous171]

27. She's always had a thing against the Clintons

Or so I hear.

[ada chupitos perez]

42. I never thought she was a liberal either

She rarely bashes Republicans.

[pnwmom]

59. Welcome to DU, ada!

And you're right, she seems to enjoy bashing Dems much more.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. Dowd is no liberal. Never has been.

I'll never forget the way she relentlessly mocked Al Gore in 2000. Like a cheerleader for the Republicans. Let's not forget she won a fucking Pulitzer for basically a cheesy gossip column about the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

Maureen Dowd. Mean Girl Extraordinaire. :puke:

[pnwmom]

70. You're right, she's never gotten past a high-school mentality.

I don't know whether she was one of the "cool kids" or one of the "dweebs," but high school has clearly left its mark.

[Beregond2]

23. Pantsuits

The pantsuits ARE a problem, not because they ae pantsuits, but because they are SO FUCKING UGLY! Doesn't she have any gay male friends?

[pnwmom]

29. And the men's suits look like Chadors. So what. n/t

[maddiejoan]

37. Her suits are stunning looking

[KoKo]

41. Exactly....Hillary manages to make a Pants Suit look sexy...with color and jewelry.

But, all the people I see in the grocery store in shopping centers today wear jeans, exercisewear and baseball caps. Even our busy executives in our office buildings dress very casually unless it's the blue suit for a business meeting. And, usually it's "boring colors and styles." I rarely see women around who are as "put together" and attractively dressed as Hillary is. But, maybe I have a "jaded eye" and am part of what Dowd calls the "shoulder pad" generation. :eyes:

[pnwmom]

55. I wouldn't mind having some of them.

But then who knows what I'd be accused of.

Singlehandedly starting the Iraq war, perhaps?

[Nine]

25. Daily Howler has Dowd pegged

Choose one at will. There's no shortage of her stupidity: http://www.google.com/custom?q=dowd&sa=Google+Search&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3Ac32a032061318778%3B&domains=dailyhowler.com&sitesearch=dailyhowler.com

[Eric J in MN]

31. Fox News has "some people say."

Maureen Dowd has "Some women" say.

[pnwmom]

33. Hah! Good catch. n/t

[kwassa]

32. Why Dowd has a column is a mystery altogether ....

she is nothing but a mess of her own personal issues.

[pnwmom]

34. It is hard to imagine that she has any close women friends.

She shows so much disrespect for other women.

[kwassa]

38. I think she needs some conciousness-raising, to use an old term

Dowd really wants to be the never-aging coquette, the center of all men's attention. Hillary is undeniably more important than Dowd, despite her national column, and Maureen can't handle that.

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2512/context/archive

(WOMENSENEWS)--A growing media narrative over the past year says men do not like high-achieving women.

It's been fueled by stories in, among others, The New York Times, the Chicago Sun Times, Toronto Star, "60 Minutes" and the Atlantic magazine.

This drumbeat reached its zenith Sunday in Maureen Dowd's New York Times Magazine piece, "What's A Modern Girl to Do?"

The rest of this article rips apart the so-called research Dowd has done to support her retrograde theory.

[maddiejoan]

35. I'm younger than Maureen Dowd

so she can pretty much bite me.

[pnwmom]

61. LOL!

How old is she, anyway?

Her photo never seems to age. Maybe she's Dorian Gray?

[eridani]

36. Right. Destroying a country that was never a threat to us is so very feminist

Not.

[pnwmom]

51. That is a lot to accuse even Maureen Dowd of.

:sarcasm:

[eridani]

91. Dowd voted to invade? n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

43. Maureen Dowd will say anything to get a Republican elected.

Anything at all. If you doubt my word, go to daily howler.com, which has; kept track of Dowd's outrageous GOP-enabling behavior for years.

The archives there go back into the mid-Nineties.

[anonymous171]

45. From the comments here it appears that women are some kind of tribe.

[pnwmom]

52. Kind of scares you, doesn't it. n/t

[anonymous171]

54. No, it makes me sad.

It reminds me how fractured humanity is, and how willingly humans separate themselves into factions without much cause or worry.

[pnwmom]

56. Women are linked by common experiences, whether they like this or not.

Most professional women who have gotten out of their twenties have experienced a serious situation at work precisely because they are women. With me, it was a harassment issue; with my sister, it was being in a department where the women were routinely passed over for promotions and raises because of their gender. (My sister finally filed an EOC complaint, and even with the Bush EOC, the discrimination was proven -- it was so blatant -- and all the women got raises of at least 40%.)

[smalll]

46. Take a rec for your coinage alone - "garter belt feminism" -

:applause:

[pnwmom]

53. Thank you very much on that.

I tried.

:)

[robbedvoter]

47. March is Women's History March. DU celebrates with MoDo, Paglia & such

Gee, I wonder what the freepers hung in their trees this month?:shrug:

[rodeodance]

72. i glance at that Paglia thread--and the Obamakiddoes praising her. Sickening!

[xmas74]

49. I was a teen in the 80's

when I last wore shoulder pads.

Maybe it's time to reinvest...

[pnwmom]

62. Anything to make M.D. happy, I guess.

Are you old enough to remember the big scientific debate about whether women's menstrual periods and menopause whacked out their hormones so much that they should never be President?

That was fun.

:sarcasm:

[xmas74]

78. I don't remember it that well.

Either I wasn't old enough (I'm 33) or I was too involved in getting the guy to worry about it.

I was a very different creature when I was young. I feel like I've evolved so much and yet I know that I have so far to go!

[bling bling]

50. My grandma, in her 80's, is truly the biggest sexist I've ever known.

And I mean that sincerely. Divide everyone up by their gender roles. Girls are nothing if they're not married. When I was single she would always reassure me not to worry about it too much yet, that I would meet a man and get married before long. She genuinely never got it when I assured her I was fine being single. I could tell a hundred stories about her. The 2nd most sexist person I know is my husbands grandmother. It is important to me to clearly emphasize that I have never been demeaned due to my gender by any man in my family. And don't even get me started on weight issues these women pounded into every female in their families. They still do it and I'm in my 30's now. The DAY I came home from the hopital after giving birth to my daughter, the DAY I came home my grandma came over to meet her and within 10 minutes asked me "if I was going to lose the weight." I don't blame them. I know they are products of their generation and of society. They lived in a time where a woman who was pregnant timed her leave of absence based on when the baby started to show. I'm just saying that from MY perspective, it's the women in my family who have tried to mold me based on my gender. I've always rebelled against it and it pisses them off but the men were always on MY side!

So that's my experience. I've studied the history of women and feminism. I know what I've experienced as a woman. I can't think of too many things I would be more interested in listening to than women talking about their own personal experiences. I would LOVE to hear more from the women here if anyone ever wanted to share so that we can learn something from each other.

Having said that, I don't think categorizing feminism into one group is better or tougher or had it worse or whatever. Women today and I'm talking adolescents who the older women seem to want to roll their eyes at -- teenage girls still play dumb to be accepted. Still feel fat and ugly and skip nourishing their bodies.

When woman can grow up in this country without being quite literally, *obsessed* about their physical weight, I'll feel a personal sense of victory. It is SO engrained in us that I bet most women don't even realize that they are in fact obsessed about it. It's considered normal.

Anyway, I thank the women who came before me for pioneering the road as they have. And I appreciate it all the time. I mean that. I really do. All the time.

[pnwmom]

64. What a thoughtful post. Thank you, bling bling.

You're right -- women have always been among the offenders. Just as women in certain parts of the world are the ones who carry out female genital mutilation, women here push their daughters to starve themselves. I guess they feel that it's the only way THEY survived, so it's the only way their daughters can survive. It's a very warped, misguided, but common form of love.

I always emphasized healthy food with my daughter, and healthy habits (sleep, exercise). I never said anything about weight, and I never talked about my own need to diet (which is real) -- because I didn't want her to think along those lines. And she's never had any issues with weight.

I worry about some of my nieces, though, because they're getting the same "treatment" I got. Their mother is verbally obsessed with her own weight, and they're catching the bug themselves.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

57. Sorry, I don't appreciate Steinem et. al. telling me who to vote for.

Feminism is NOT about dictating women's choices to them. Ask the 1500 feminists who signed the letter in support of Obama.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4790287

[pnwmom]

65. I'd rather listen to a pacifist like Steinem

than a closet Rethug like Dowd.

[susankh4]

86. Or a yes girl like

Oprah.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

90. If Steinem is a pacifist then why does she support Clinton?

IWR vote and Kyl-Lieberman.

Here's a little info for you and Gloria about cluster bombs:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/world/europe/06vienna.html?ref=world

Obama voted for a ban on them. Clinton voted against it.

Until recently, Clinton approved of the use of torture in some cases:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2006/10/16/2006-10-16_mccain_team_mocks_hil_torture_loophole.html

Now she doesn't, but only because it was bad for her politically.


I have a lot of respect and admiration for Ms. Steinem and always will, but even she can be wrong sometimes. This is one of those times.

[nomorewhopper]

63. you have to give dowd props for

standing up for her personal beliefs, and not just voting for hillary because she's a woman

blind support of your race/gender for something as important as the presidency is not what feminism is all about.

[pnwmom]

67. And blind hatred of the Clintons is not what good reporting is about. n/t

[snooper2]

85. Um, at the top of the page it says OPINION

It's not supposed to be an unbiased news report...


read

[rodeodance]

75. she can do that without spewing sewer skink all over and you know that!

[Nine]

83. Hatred of Dems *is* her personal belief

Maureen Dowd is a halfwit with gender issues. And she's directed her inanity at your candidate as well. That still ok with you?

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh030507.shtml

But then, why should pundits criticize Coulter when she describes Dem males as big “f*ggots?” It’s very similar to the gender-based “analysis” their dauphine, the Comptesse Maureen Dowd, has long offered. In Dowd’s work, John Edwards is routinely “the Breck Girl”(five times so far—and counting), and Gore is “so feminized that he’s practically lactating.” Indeed, two days before we voted in November 2000, Dowd devoted her entire column, for the sixth time, to an imaginary conversation between Gore and his bald spot. “I feel pretty,” her headline said (pretending to quote Gore’s inner thoughts).That was the image this idiot wanted you carrying off to the voting booth with you! Such is the state of Maureen Dowd’s broken soul. And such is the state of her cohort.

And now, in the spirit of fair play and brotherhood, she is extending this type of “analysis” to Barack Obama. In the past few weeks, she has described Obama as “legally blonde” (in her headline); as “Scarlett O’Hara” (in her next column); as a “Dreamboy,” as “Obambi,” and now, in her latest absurd piece, as a “schoolboy” (text below). Do you get the feeling that Dowd may have a few race-and-gender issues floating around in her inane, tortured mind? But this sort of thing is nothing new for the comptesse. Indeed, such imagery almost defines the work of this loathsome, inane Antoinette.

[pnwmom]

89. A good reminder, Nine. She IS nasty! Welcome to DU! n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

66. Funny, when I saw "shoulder pad" feminism, I thought of this:

- which more closely approximates my approach as a feminist!

:rofl:

[pnwmom]

68. Sometimes you need them.

That's for sure.

[rodeodance]

76. :-)

[EmilyAnne]

79. Lame as all get out. Ms. Dowd, I still luv ya, but this article is very disappointing. n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

80. Aren't these "garter belt" feminists the ones who think

pornography is liberating?

[EmilyAnne]

82. I think so. They're sometimes called post-feminists.

All different ways of being a powerful woman, I guess.
Personally, I'd take shoulder pads and positions of authority over stripper poles and pornos, but I suppose it all comes down to freedom of choice.

[pnwmom]

87. Those "feminists" would certainly be included in the group. n/t

[barack the house]

84. The reason being divding the sexes damages society. Life was never meant 2 be war but our evolvement

our evolvement to harmoney

"the only thing that is real is love everything else is an illusion"

[pnwmom]

88. So does dividing the races. But does it help to tell the people among

the oppressed that they should just love their oppressors?

Of course women have come VERY far, I'm not denying that. But I'm not going to say that we are "past" the issue of sex discrimination in the Presidency until we have actually had women Presidents. And at this point we only have 16 women Senators out of 100.

[avrdream]

92. Maureen needs to get it over with and marry Tweety already.

Imagine the conversations THEY would have in bed! (Snicker, snicker)