Hillary's next, and final, step to the nomination.

[Ravy]

*IF* she wins PA, she should announce to the sueprdelegates that she will offer the VP slot to Obama. If Obama will not pledge to offer the VP slot to Clinton then I would expect enough superdelegates to move to her for the nomination.

This is what I see as her best strategy moving forward. I do not know if Obama would accept the Vice Presidency, but if he doesn't and doesn't extend the same pledge to Hillary, I believe there would be enough superdelegates who would hold it against Obama for not uniting the party.

It might even happen before then. Call it a hunch.

[Taverner]

1. We have to have a dream ticket

Otherwise, we're fucked

[MercutioATC]

13. How the hell is that the "dream ticket"?

Clinton brings nothing to the plate, as far as I'm concerned. Obama should select an energetic, but older, running mate to counter the experience question.

(and I mean somebody with REAL experience, not HRC's bullshit "35 years")

[Growler]

21. Agreed

[maddiejoan]

28. She brings half the Democratic Party

and if you haven't noticed --Clinton IS that energetic, but older running mate.

OTOH --Clinton/Obama would be a much better ticket.

[Taverner]

29. Either/or I'm fine

Just give me Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

[maddiejoan]

30. exactly

either / or.

Count me in!

[MercutioATC]

31. I stipulated "real" experience...not Clinton's BS claims of experience.

[maddiejoan]

32. okay, sport.

[AJH032]

63. exactly!

it's either Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton. Any other way and we lose the GE.

[surfin]

50. Agreed the other is a

nightmare ticket and repubs will defeat it.

[Unsane]

18. Obama-Feingold?

[pbca]

2. Then Hillary could lose and

we could vote for Obama in 2012..is that the idea?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. No, she cannot do that

The problem is that it would undercut Obama and force him to very publicly promise that he wouldn't accept the VP.

If people thought he'd accept the VP they'd vote Hillary, knowing they'd get both, so his public refusal would be a forced move.

And that would make the dream ticket essentially impossible.

[Ravy]

6. And many superdelegates would look unfavorably on Obama for that.

Yes, it will force him to

a) accept it
b) Offer a VP slot to Hillary
or
c) suffer the wrath of the superdelegates who will be urging him to unite the party.

Like I said. A strategic hunch.

[KittyWampus]

67. super delegates are already moving into Obama's camp. Sorry, try something else.

[Beregond2]

4. Ticket

The party will unite around either candidate, so the whole idea of a "dream ticket" is nonsense. I think we also need to remember that Hillary is profoundly disliked by most Washington insiders, and I can't see the superdelegates being in any rush to do her favors if they don't have to.

[RememberWellstone]

5. It sounds plausible

on paper, not sure what the gen dem would say. Let this thing play out..I still like the thought of Evan Bayh being the Veep. He would bring the moderates over from McCain IMO.

[NMMatt]

7. Simple

He calls her on her bluff and offers her the VP slot knowing full well that she would never actually accept it.

[sendero]

8. Vp is worth a bucket of warm spit..

... Clinton should be happy if Obama offers it to her.

[Ravy]

10. Correct, but if he doesn't offer it, and she offers to him, then

superdelegates will move to her because of it. A hunch only.

[wileedog]

25. Based on what? n/t

[Ravy]

27. Read the post. I said it was based on a hunch. nt

[verges]

55. Would you be

happy if somebody offered you a bucket of warm spit? I wouldn't. Kinda gross actually.

[cooolandrew]

9. The front runner doesn't take VP don't work like that. =) Have a great day. =)

[Ravy]

14. He won't be the front runner if she agrees to unite the party and he refuses. nt

[Growler]

20. Hillary has been dividing the party for weeks now!

Where have you been hiding??

[Ravy]

23. The whole process is dividing the party, with two good candidates with

relatively even support. One stronger in the Democratic only vote, the other stronger when you throw in republicans and independents.

She would look like a savior to make the offer, Obama the pariah if he refuses to unite the party.

I think it would be enough to swing the nomination her way. His *safest* way around it is to offer her the VP slot, which he is loathe to do (understandably).

Kennedy didn't want Johnson, either.

[seabeyond]

36. kinda like bushco, divide with hate... then come along and be the uniter?

i am tellingya, last couple days you clinton supporters are taking me back to bush administration and 2004 to consistently and often to be comfortable with. toooooo many similarities between clinton and the way she runs and rove

[Ravy]

39. First of all, I don't particularly like Clinton.

I am just trying to be a political observer. I am more of a cynic, so when you say "like bushco, divide with hate and come along and be the uniter" I say "Absolutely".

I personally see both camps filled with hatred for the other. The same could work for Obama if he was behind yet had some favorable statistics supporting him at this point in the race.

The very move I am suggesting is in itself divisive from each campaign's point of view, but it will give superdelegates the opportunity to wimp out with a compromise where they can vote for BOTH campaigns.. and most of 'em are politicians, so you be the judge if that sounds like something that might appeal to politicians.


PS. I don't particularly dislike Clinton either. I don't really care which one of them wins at this point, I will support either.

[seabeyond]

44. appreciate you post

i hear what you are saying. i dont really care about hate one has for each other, though hate is awfully strong and not soemthing i am much into. having issue with clinton/rove tactics... why i posted as i did. not all of the woman is bad, ... but that part is and i have been vocal on it.

[laugle]

51. I agree with you!

If this race stays close, and it looks like it will, we are going to have both of them on the ticket. But we need to see things play out further, I don't buy the thought that it will damage the party. With both of them on the ticket they will kick-ass!!!

[cloudbase]

11. We tried that dream team stuff

here in Texas several years ago, and all we got for our troubles was an ass whipping.

[Hawkeye-X]

12. Have you checked the delegates?

Obama is still leading the delegates, and will *NOT* accept a VP offer from a 2nd place finisher. PA will result YET another narrow finish much like TX/OH - plus Hillary forgot Mississippi and Wyoming, although Hillary will probably make a token visit to Mississippi (as I understand), then get out fast to PA to campaign. Obama will sweep both states, further endangering Hill's chance of any nomination.

[Ravy]

16. You are under the mistaken impression that the most

pledged delegates is guaranteed the win. It does not work that way.

I am sure many superdelegates will try to get them to the Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama ticket, Hillary is already putting out signals for this. If he rejects it, then the superdelegates will blame him for not uniting the party. He may not have a political choice but to offer her the VP slot.

[peacebird]

15. HRC cannot get ahead of Obama in pledged delegates by just winning PA

so why should he accept VP from her?

She has to win over 60% in every upcoming primary to TIE Obama - the likelihood of that is very slim... I am far less concerned with "her best strategy moving forward" than I am with the best chance to win the White House.

Clue Phone - the best chance to win the White House is NOT red phone fearfearfear, it is hope and change and Obama

[Ravy]

17. Because superdelegates can completely ignore pledged delegates

when casting their vote. And if they make a concerted effort for the "dream" ticket but Obama is viewed as the roadblock, then they may hold that against him. There will be considerable pressure for a dream ticket, let me assure you.

[Zachstar]

22. If the supers have any will to tear the party apart by not supporting the person with the most ...

Pledged delegates then I guess we will say hello to president Mccain.

I find it funny as hell that Clinton supporters are talking about VP stuff after Clinton only gained a few Net delegates from this.

The dream ticket is NOT Obama/Clinton BTW its Obama/Edwards!

[Ravy]

33. I think the argument is more strongly made with popular vote,

not national pledged delegates. I think they will look at that more closely.

[peacebird]

24. if the superdelegates do that, then we are sure to lose not only THIS election - but young voters

for a generation.

The young voters are fired up, so are older cynical voters. The superdelegates would destroy the party if they void the popular vote.

[Ravy]

26. I imagine Hillary will be leading the popular vote after PA.

She will most assuredly be behind in pledged delegates, but ahead in a lot of other criteria.

There will be a lot of pissed off people no matter which way this goes unless both are on the ticket.

[Ravy]

34. They can justify the "people's will" more strongly by popular vote,

or even by popular vote from Democrats. There will be plenty of statistics to back up either way they want to cast their vote.

[neverforget]

70. if the superdelegates do that, i will vote for Hillary, puke, then switch my

party affiliation to Independent.

[Dinger]

19. If We Have A Ticket Without Clark, Or Someone Like Him, Against mccan't,

we will most likely lose. Yes, he's (Clark) been "my candidate" for years, but I think if we run a ticket without a veteran, against mccan't, they'll play that up like you can't believe, and the media will make it easy, no matter how much money we have.
O.K. folks, give it to me, I'm ready!:hide:

[Leopolds Ghost]

59. Agreeed.

So it's settled: The Nine Pirate Lords will draw straws for second place on the ticket. ;-)

[cali]

35. It's not a bad move but

I doubt it happens. She may hint at it but no way is she going to pledge to offer it. And he won't either.

[noel711]

37. Clinton/Obama ticket? No way in hell...

The only reason Clinton is floating that is because that is her
'life boat' in the event she falls further behind.

To wrap them together is disaster; If Obama would serve as Veep,
he'd be elbowed out of the way at every opportunity by Billy Clinton.

If Clinton were to serve as Veep, she'd be elbowing Obama out of the
way at every opportunity,and he'd be tainted by the Clinton aroma for
years to come.

There's no positive to come out of this.

She needs a Veep with foreign policy portfolio and a nice easy demeanor
to make up for her 'Iron Lady' personna.

Obama needs a policy wonk, an older man with an impeccable past,
with southern heritage, foreign or military credentials who isn't afraid
to step on roaches.

[Ravy]

38. I agree that is what each needs...

but I don't think superdelegates are going to tell virtually half of everyone who voted to go pound sand, your candidate has no place on our ticket.

[IsItJustMe]

68. If I was Obama, I would not trust her no further than I could spit. He better sleep with some

serious protection under the cover.

[Iceburg]

40. Shaping up to looks like Hillary is the REAL unifier -- Obama the spoiled brat

who does not want any stinkin' girls in HIS tree fort.

[Ravy]

47. Right. Fair or not, I think that is the plan. nt

[tekisui]

41. Doubtful.

A Democratic candidate winning big Democratic states doesn't do much for the General Election. THe SuperD's want to win. The hubris of Hillary to offer the VP position to the leader is ridiculous, and the SuperD's wouldn't be duped by it. It could send them the other direction.

[Vinca]

42. This has little to do with the idea of "Dream Team" and everything

to do with Hillary's final push to grab the nomination by disenfranchising the primary season votes. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Clinton offices. It's probably like a game show, offering favors to superdelegates. You want an ambassadorship? No problem.

[Ravy]

57. I think this is her strongest move.

From a superdelegate's perspective:

a) Make one camp happy with you, the other furious

or

b) Make one camp happy with you, let the other camp save face, and be generally happy about it.

Most superdelegates are politicians. What do you think they will do?

[AlinPA]

43. How could she do that after trashing him with that mocking, insulting, belittling

speech in RI? The 3 AM commercial may even be worse, the R's will say that she doesn't mean what she says.

[Ravy]

58. Politics. nt

[Jennicut]

45. Why would Obama take the VP slot if he is ahead in delegates still?

It makes no sense. Would Hillary do that if it was reversed? I can't believe some people here are seriously thinking that Superdelegates should decide this decision. Absolutley horrible for the party's image as the party of the people. Who thought up this dumb idea of superdelegates anyways? I guess no one ever noticed how dumb it was till now as no nomination process has been as close as it is now.

[Ravy]

48. He may not. But then he will be viewed as throwing the wrench in

the unity plan.

It has nothing to do with fair, this is politics. And from tidbits I heard today, I am even more convinced this will happen.

*IF* Obama would agree to lead the ticket, I think that would get preferential treatment by the superdelegates.

If Clinton says to the superdelegates, vote for me, put me over the top, and I will name Obama as my running mate then he will have to make that choice at the convention.

[Leopolds Ghost]

60. Superdelegates made sense when you had 3-5 strong regional candidates

Of course, just going caucus style with a second and third ballot, runoff voting, would make even more sense.

[Ravy]

64. They may be holding out for that.

At some point, you have to admit that Hillary cannot overtake Obama in pledged delegates realistically. So, if they are going to break for whoever gets the most pledged delegates, what are they waiting for????

I think they are waiting for a plan. Could be a brokered convention, could be the "dream ticket" scenario. Many of the superdelegates are up for election this year, so they will support the way that they think will get the most people to the polls for the Democrats in November.

[ButterflyBlood]

46. Obama will not accept second-fiddle when he has more delegates

The end.

[Ravy]

49. I don't think he will have more delegates if Clinton does as I am suggesting.

His only choice will be to approach them with the same idea with him at the top of the ticket.

[ButterflyBlood]

54. It's impossible for him not to

He's up by almost 100. She's NOT getting anywhere near that out of Pennsylvania, hell she'll be lucky if her lead in delegates is double digits.

[Ravy]

56. Yep, that is what I am thinking. Clinton is about out of options, except for

this move. And at this point, being able to claim VP at the least is probably looking appealing to her. If Obama fails to play, then the nomination could go to her outright and Obama will have to decline at the democratic convention. I imagine that there will be a lot of pressure for him to take the top spot though, and IMHO he should at this juncture.

I noticed today on Huffington post someone wrote an article about this very subject.

[Kaylee]

52. He's winning in every single way you can measure this race.....

and HE has to pick her to be his VP or become her VP. I don't think so.

[Ravy]

53. And yet, he can't get to 2025.

Superdelegates are mostly politicians. If they say they will cast their vote for Obama if he promises to pick Clinton, or for Clinton if she promises to choose Obama, he will have to or come away with nothing.

I don't think politicians are going to risk losing Clinton or Obama supporters by snubbing one of them.

[Leopolds Ghost]

61. You may be right, and that's scary, because an Obama/Clinton ticket would be suicidal

They totally do not balance each other out.

If Kerry had gone with VP Clark we woudn't be having this conversation.

Note that Kerry didn't pick another big blue-state senator to run with
him, though.

[Ravy]

62. I agree that either would be better off with someone else..

but they both have large numbers of loyal supporters. My feeling though is that they would spank McCain.

I also agree with you about Kerry/Clark. I like JE a lot, I supported him this year, but he didn't add a lot of impact. It might not have been his fault, maybe he was playing the role as Kerry wanted him to.

[RoadRage]

65. Right..........

So she wins one more state by a squaker (5 points or less), is still behind by popular vote and over all delegates, still hasn't won as many states as he has, but "nicely" decides to offer Obama a VICE PRESIDENTIAL spot even though she's still behind him, and if he says "NO".. then screw it, she gets the nomination anyway... and he's just out of luck?

What friggin' planet are you on anyway?

[zulchzulu]

66. "she will offer the VP slot to Obama"?

[Gore1FL]

69. She'll win PA

But she won't win the nomination.

The numbers simply don't add up. There is no if and or buts about it. The super dlegates are not going to overturn what looks to be a 100-150 delegate lead. It just isn't going to happen.

In the unrealistic event she managed to get the 60% or so of super delegates to do so, she will win nothing more than a pyrrhic victory, and the Democratic base will change forever, and we won't see the White House again for a generation.