Officials in Michigan and Florida are showing renewed interest in holding repeat presidential

[mzmolly]

nomination.

See here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble

WASHINGTON - Officials in Michigan and Florida are showing renewed interest in holding repeat presidential nominating contests so that their votes will count in the epic Democratic campaign.

The Michigan governor, along with top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign and Florida's state party chair, are now saying they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. That's a change from their previous insistence that the primaries their states held in January should determine how the their delegates are allocated.

Clinton won both contests, but the results were meaningless because the elections violated national party rules.

The Democratic National Committee stripped both states of all delegates for holding the primaries too early, and all Democratic candidates — including Clinton and rival Barack Obama — agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.

OK, off to watch Project Runway :hi:

[mzmolly]

1. Madfloridian, this should be somewhat encouraging?

:D

[madfloridian]

I don't think FL will do it. I may be wrong. They already said no.

Very loudly. Nelson, Thurman, all of them.

I don't even think we should have a do-over. But that's just me.

[mzmolly]

5. I don't either, but if Dean ok's it, I'm fine.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

14. At least he is giving them an out.

.

[joshcryer]

8. Holy fuck! Two states shouldn't have a say *whatsoever*?

Unfuckingbelievable!

[leftofcool]

21. Florida and Michigan

shouldn't have a say in the democratic process when it concerns their own voters?

[ruggerson]

12. Why shouldn't FL have a do-over if Dean thinks it's the correct thing to do?

I'm curious as to your thoughts.

[joshcryer]

15. I suggest you look at their nickname and extropolate.

[seabeyond]

25. i have always respected you. you live there. is it deans fault. is it obama

should they just give hillary the seats. fair was it a fair primary.

it seems to me what i am hearing from the clinton camp is odd. there were rules. the rules were broken. they were told the primary votes wouldnt count. they had primary and other candidates didnt do much or anything cause after all votes didnt count. now florida nad michigan is mad at obama? lol and want hillary to get delegates.

[Obamanaut]

38. IF there is a do-over vote, and the outcome is different than the

original (in Mi and/or Fl) will that screw up the whole process even more and cause an endless stream of court battles by the candidates?

[joshcryer]

2. I posted this same thing. It was dismissed and 4 other threads talking about "evil Hillary"...

...are inundating these forums. :(

[mzmolly]

4. Thanks Josh, sorry I missed your post.

:hi:

[seabeyond]

26. youposted first i believe, but hey josh likes to cry... a lot

not dismissed, people just dont agree hillary should get the votes with unfair primaries

[joshcryer]

36. And now even Hillary's campaign is open to a revote. :)

BTW, don't think you're the first idiot to use that empty quip.

The point of my comment was that Hillary being evil and wanting to steal votes (with some of the most vocal posters saying MI and FL should not count at all!) was taking precidence over the idea that they should revote, something that Obama supporters once upon a time were all for, but now even they are afraid of a revote.

[seabeyond]

37. you work awfully hard misrepresenting the facts. i dont respect that. n/t

[peace13]

3. Are we going to change the rules for her entire administration

or just for her selection. Rules mean nothing to * and they mean nothing to Hillary. This is not a slam simply an observation.

[MoonRiver]

7. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

The GOVERNORS of Michigan and Florida want their constituents' votes to count. Why do you HATE democracy?

[peace13]

9. You are very rude.

Hillary has been requesting this since her lead evaporated. Kid yourself. I believe in democracy, you on the other hand are a rude person who will change the rules to what pleases you.

[joshcryer]

11. She just wants those two states' votes to count. She doesn't want to remove them from the process!

I can't believe one poster in this thread doesn't even want a fucking do-over! FL and MI shouldn't count, period! Unbelievable!

[peace13]

The voters knew that the vote wouldn't count at the time of the

primary. I can't believe that people here do not understand this. Hey the rules were in place way before the election.

[MichiganVote]

22. Can you actually prove that? Can you prove to the entire state of Michigan

republican and democrat alike that without a doubt their votes would not count? Can you demonstrate fully that the republicans who voted for Clinton knew that their votes would not count at all but that if they voted for McCain ro Romey they had at least a 50% chance of being counted?

The Michigan primary is held on the same date for both parties. So aside from the whole Democratic issue, there are a whole lot of issues on the republican end too. And you know what? I bet you don't even have the facts on how this whole thing started do you? I'll wager that you just repeat the whole 'they broke the rules' spiel without even taking the time to read and educate yourself about the whole train of events.

Ignorance is only attractive when it is acknowledged....

[peace13]

44. Did you know that? I live in Ohio and I did.

I am sure that your party officials new the rules. If they do not convey that to their voters I have no sympathy. At some point this country has to begin to follow the laws and rules. We can not continue to change the rules because they do not suit us. Leave that to the Rthugs, OK?

[purji]

45. i'm in MI

i knew, all my friends knew,the folks on the news knew, the local papers knew. It seems to me that if you didn't know you weren't paying attention.

[peace13]

17. The voters knew that the vote wouldn't count at the time of the

primary. I can't believe that people here do not understand this. Hey the rules were in place way before the election.

[joshcryer]

19. It was record turnouts, don't tell me they didn't want their votes to count.

[seabeyond]

33. they may have wanted it but rules had been broken so the punishment was.....

but, tough concept for you

if i was a voter i would have been damn pissed and screamin all the way. i would still be screamin. but i have always believed in putting the blame where it belongs.

[joshcryer]

40. Would you have voted or would you not have wanted your vote to count?

If I was there I would've voted, to express my will as a democratic voter, even if it wasn't going to count, I'd hope it did!

[seabeyond]

42. i dont kow if i would vote or not if i didnt think it would count. as a matter of fact

i could see me not voting knowing it wouldnt count. then to be told later that vote counted would make me triple pissed. didnt even think of it from that perspective.

but... if i had been told didnt count. and i voted because i wanted to be heard. i would not be mad at dean or obama or hillary or any of the others because my vote didnt count. i would be pissed at the people that took my vote from me.

i am a believer in ownership to the proper people. i dont have to like them, i can like them regardless i just want the right people to own whatever. certainly not give it to someone who isnt responsible. what would that say about me?

[MoonRiver]

13. I want voters to decide this election.

If the two states need to have a re-vote, fine. But the electorate shouldn't be disenfranchised because of dumb, boneheaded decisions on the part of party officials.

[peace13]

18. Please define as Democratic party officials! n/t

[leftofcool]

20. If you really belived in democracy

then you would believe that everyone's vote should count. And how, pray tell has the above "poster changed the rules?" Don't you think this is up to the voters of Florida and Michigan?

[seabeyond]

28. we cant say here in texas i want to vote oct 15 08 and expect our vote to count

yes everyones vote should count. be pissed at the people that willingly gave up those voters right for their vote to count.

i am all for a re vote. i dont care. i just want it known that the next vote it counts so the candidates have a fair chance.

i can see rule oriented people would say, nope didnt follow the rules, no vote. i can shrug rule and say, .... just make sure it is fair.

[seabeyond]

27. then they shouldnt have fucked with it and broke the rules. i am all for

the re election..... but it is dishonest to suggest someone hates democracy because people broke rules knowing what the repercusiion would be.

everyone is blamed except the ones responsible.

[joshcryer]

10. She has done *no* rule breaking.

But thanks for playing.

[seabeyond]

29. wasnt clinton asking for rules to be broken. to allow the delegates when

it had already been ruled that no one would get them?

[joshcryer]

39. There's no rule that the delegates couldn't be seated.

She merely called for them to be seated. Even Obama said he would want to seat them, but times have changed, and Obama is the only one of the candidates who would refuse to seat them.

[seabeyond]

41. dean said that the delegates votes wouldnt count, correct?

and those two states continued with early primaries knowing the delegates votes wouldnt be counted. and now hillary wants their vote to count. is that correct?

[seabeyond]

43. anyway, i will tell you, i hadnt paid attention to this or any primary stuff

i think much of it is pure bullshit. and i dont like it. i read up on this today. i canot believe two states did this to their people. i am outraged for them and with them

[DJ13]

6. I like how Hillary has the REPUBLICAN governor of Florida trying to help her gain delegates

She seems to be friendliest with Republicans, why is that?

[peace13]

16. My guess is that she will do a better job for the' PNAC

one worlders' than Johnny Boy. You would not believe how many Rthugs voted for Hillary yesterday in Ohio(I worked the polls). Thinking that they were helping McCain not knowing that the shadow government will be very happy with their purchase of Clinton.

[Hardrada]

24. She is pretty much in their pocket, I believe.

[ada chupitos perez]

23. I agree with the proposal of not disengranchising Michigan and Florida voters

It would be the best, most democratic thing to do.

[seabeyond]

30. but let us be clear who disenfranchised these voters. the people who changed the dates n/t

[LisaL]

32. And so, because of a few people, millions should be

disenfranchised?

[seabeyond]

34. you know cause of a few people lots of iraqis died in an unjust war.

life is really fucked sometimes.

now, can we find a solution. that would be the best. i am all for it. but..... you break the rules, run an election when candidates think it is for not and then say..... surprise, it counts.

dont get to do that either

[LisaL]

31. It's not democratic to tell two states their votes will not count.

And if they want to do a do-over, they should be allowed to.

[seabeyond]

35. what wasnt fair or right or democratic was the people that allowed it to happen. n.t