Ten things I just gotta say.

[Sparkly]

All MHO.

1. Neither candidate is as perfect nor as horrible as supporters/detractors have convinced themselves. What they are: Politicians! That means highlighting the absolute worst side of their opponent, and the idealized side of themselves.

2. When this is over, lots of Democrats may need to make a real effort to see the glass of our nominee as half full, if you will. It doesn't hurt to start now. Look on the positive side of him/her -- and yes, both really DO have positives. One way: Think of the Democrats you admire who've endorsed your candidate's opponent. None of them turned "shill" overnight.

3. About the fear of attacks in the primary season: the candidates are not fragile. BOTH campaigns have hurled insults, sometimes quite personal. There's nothing Democrats throw at Democrats that "gives" the GOP something they wouldn't already have -- and the GOP and its 527 PACs will do much worse. These are all love taps by their standards.

4. Neither candidate has experience in being president; thus neither has direct experience making emergency foreign policy decisions. But both can be competent presidents. I dare say: The job isn't THAAAT difficult. We've seen it royally screwed up as never before, for the past 7 years, and maybe that has us thinking it's fraught with danger to have someone who doesn't know what they're doing. It takes someone reasonably intelligent, ethical, and good-hearted, with good advisors. (Unfortunately that's what we haven't had with BushCo.) So either would be fine as presidents; it's the contest with McCain we need to focus on.

5. On policy proposals and positions, our two candidates are nearly identical.

6. Posting attacks on DU is probably not changing anybody's mind about anything, but might just harden feelings in both directions. Hopefully that's not the intention or purpose.

7. If you're finding supporters of a candidate are making you dislike the candidate him/herself, please -- take a break from DU!! (And focus, as I mentioned in #2 above, on the admirable supporters of that candidate.)

8. Barack Obama has brown skin, and Hillary Clinton has wrinkles. Voters are aware of these facts. If we're afraid of images changing voters' minds, we've got work to do.

9. Not voting Democratic in the general election is equivalent to enabling McCain's platform. Read it here so you'll know what you're doing: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues

10. Just as our candidates aren't fragile, neither are we. The Democratic party will be fine; DU will be fine; the United States of America will be fine -- IF, that is, we don't relinquish the fight to the GOP.

:rant:

[zabet]

1. .

:thumbsup:

[LeftCoast]

2. Excellent post!

:thumbsup:

[Alamom]

3. A Hillary Supporter Thanks You. k&r

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Well said. All ten. n/t

[leftofcool]

5. Barack Obama has brown skin, and Hillary Clinton has wrinkles. Voters are aware of these facts. If w

Good one!

[Booster]

6. Rationality on DU - what a concept. Good post & I agree.

[terrya]

7. Great post!

Number 7 in particular is a good one.

[JeffR]

8. 11. Amen!

Nicely summarized!

[anonymous171]

9. It's OK if a candidate has advisors to rely on.

But Bush is so stupid he can't make up his own mind. So in his case, his advisors run the presidency through him, which is bad. Both our candidates are very intelligent and I have no doubt that they will be able to discern between the good and bad advice.

[predfan]

10. everytime my Republican friends mention "inexperienced candidates"

I point out that with the nomination of W in 2000 they set the bar so low that anyone fits the criteria...........and after 7 plus years they now agree.

[ProSense]

11. "BOTH campaigns have hurled insults, sometimes quite personal." I call bullshit!

Drug dealer, fairy tale, imaginary hip black friend, gang bang, cult, shuck-and-jive, Hispanics don't vote for black people, Obama is Somalian, Obama meets with former terrorists, all from Hillary's campaign and surrogates.

Add the fearmongering ads, the fake news, endorsing McCain, etc.

Everyone can pretend that Obama has engaged in these despicable Rovian tactics, but it's BS.

Pretending these types of attacks from Hillary's campaign and her surrogates are just fine is BS!

[Sparkly]

12. Let's not be myopic here.

Yes, especially if we're including "campaign and surrogates," casting a wide net for the category of "surrogates," both sides have hurled insults, sometimes quite personal.

I really hesitate to list those in the opposite direction here, because it's what I'm trying to get away from. But I think if you just consider the worst things you think about HRC, you can probably recall hearing or reading them somewhere, too.

[ProSense]

15. Myopic? Sending out a memo that Obama is meeting with former terrorists is despicable! n/t

[grace0418]

16. Nobody is pretending the attacks are fine. But negativity is coming from both directions

and if you aren't seeing then you aren't looking. And before you call me a Hillary shill, I actually prefer Obama.

[ProSense]

17. Show me attacks of the same nature coming from Obama's campaign. n/t

[grace0418]

20. I have made it a specific point NOT to compile all the vitriol and negativity

being spewed in both directions. It does nothing constructive and is just the kind of "well he said worse, no she did!" oneupsmanship that the OP is talking about. Sorry, but I'm not getting dragged into that. You can choose to believe all the negativity is one-sided if you like, but it's simply not true. And even if I tried to provide you with a list of contrary evidence, I'm sure it would all be explained away in short order.

All I want is for the Dems to win in November. Of the two remaining candidates, Obama is my first choice, but I will vote for Clinton if I must. But neither candidate is going to have a chance if the insanity doesn't stop soon.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. You ae EXACTLY the prototype for the problem.

There was no barb hurled at your candidate and yet you choose to inject your own.

Give it a fucking rest already. You accomplish NOTHING.

[ProSense]

22. "Give it a fucking rest already." No, Hillary needs to give it a rest!

Don't fucking tell me what to do!

[Stinky The Clown]

24. All you do is harden people's feelings toward your candidate

Don't you realize that? :shrug:

[ProSense]

27. That's your opinion. If someone can't face facts about Hillary that's their problem, not mine. n/t

edited typo

[Stinky The Clown]

30. nt

nt

sheesh

[krabigirl]

26. um, ok

[texastoast]

13. Absolutely. And both sides need to display tolerance when

the other side hurls insults and deal with it as if the insultee candidate were the adult and the insulter candidate were a four-year-old and needed to be told to play nicely.

I mean, really. Negativity just sucks and takes the focus away from the huge issues and enormous amount of work to be done after little hitler leaves office.

Great, great post. Help everyone keep their eye on the real prize and that is getting Amerika back to normal.

[tandot]

14. I thought all of the rational and sane DUers have gone to the Lounge.

I guess I was wrong.


Thanks for posting this, Sparkly.


a big K & R :hi:

[midnight]

18. This is what I think too.

5. On policy proposals and positions, our two candidates are nearly identical.

[Arkansas Granny]

19. Very good. I hope everyone reads this.

:thumbsup:

[eleny]

23. K&R!

[BadgerKid]

25. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

:hi:

[Adelante]

28. Well said, Sparkly

:thumbsup:

[OneBlueSky]

29. all well and good . . . but this is what REALLY worries me . . .

a recent article on the Black Agenda Report website provides one of the most succinct and accurate overviews of the economic collapse that this country is facing . . .

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=547&Itemid=1

the central point of the article concerns what Americans are NOT being told -- and the very limited options that will be available to the next president, whomever s/he may be . . .

"Neither the corporate media nor politicians are telling the country the true extent of our economic troubles. The country will be wholly unprepared for the coming catastrophe. While foreigners are waiting for an opportune moment to drop the dollar like a bad habit, the presidential candidates say nothing and the people won't know what hit them when the hammer falls.

"The three trillion dollar cost of the Iraq occupation, and giveaways to corporate cronies have sucked the treasury dry. Bush will have won the day, and left the next president with no money for any new initiatives, regardless of any campaign promises."

(snip)

"Trouble will spread outside of the nation as well. America produces nothing but warfare with a military budget larger than that of every other country on earth combined. The very existence of an Iran oil market, based on Iran's currency, not dollars, may be enough to instigate Uncle Sam to do the only thing it still can: wage war and kill many human beings. The response to the loss of domination will be more wars."

(snip)

"What of the new president? In all likelihood that person will not make any attempt to confront the situation honestly, but instead will drop bombs in a futile effort to win a losing battle. Americans will be left to their own devices without knowing what has happened or why. That will be the true meltdown. A nation that thinks it is on top will quickly be on the bottom with no way out. Euros in New York City will be the least of our problems."

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=547&Itemid=1

simply put, since the only thing that the U.S. currently makes is war, the next president will have no choice but to continue (and even expand) U.S. aggression in order to mitigate (to whatever extent possible) the coming economic collapse . . . the media, of course, isn't talking about this reality -- and neither are any of the candidates . . .

a candidate truly in touch with reality, and truly committed to acting in the best interests of the country, would announce something like . . .

a) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will end, and complete troop withdrawels will begin immediately upon his/her inauguration;

b) the U.S. "defense" budget will be cut in half; and

c) the nation will rebuild its manufacturing base around a "Manhattan Project" devoted to alternative energy, energy conservation, and ending the nation's reliance on oil . . .

that's just one example, of course . . . if you can come up with something better, go for it . . . but the fact is that drastic changes are on the way, and we can respond in one of two ways . . . we can either react to those changes, or we can be proactive and take drastic measures in anticipation of those changes . . .

anything less than drastic measures simply won't work . . .

anything less is simply avoiding the problem, and digging us deeper into the hole that BushCo has created . . .

anything less will ensure that we remain a nation at war for the foreseeable future . . .